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#1 Apr 11 2011 at 1:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've just finished the Gargantua trial (a nice JP let me leech the wins overnight), and I'm wondering if I should expect the VNM trials to be faster (per pop/kill) than the lottery NMs? 13 NMs down and 28 to go until Helm-spam; just want to know what to expect.

Thanks.
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#2 Apr 11 2011 at 2:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Way faster unless you have twats killing the VNMs and not letting you join.

Non-Abyssea T2 VNMs are still unfortunately 1 hour respawns, but since you can move to other zones to get more of them, it's not as bad.
#3 Apr 11 2011 at 3:03 PM Rating: Good
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Awesome, thanks for the info.
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#4 Apr 11 2011 at 5:26 PM Rating: Excellent
I found that the VNMs were very easy. As long as you find 3-4 other people who need it too, you can knock an entire trial out in a couple of hours, tops. I've been stuck on helms for a while myself, that's where it really slows down. Smiley: frown
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#5 Apr 11 2011 at 6:41 PM Rating: Good
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Daimakaicho, Eater of Souls wrote:
I found that the VNMs were very easy. As long as you find 3-4 other people who need it too, you can knock an entire trial out in a couple of hours, tops. I've been stuck on helms for a while myself, that's where it really slows down. Smiley: frown


Luckily for me, my (WHM + DNC + SAM) roommate is going after Masamune, so we both farm a Briareus and Carabosse set, then lot each others Helms/Gems. Should only take about ~16 runs to get enough Helms/Gems doing 2 of each per run.

Sobek is gonna be the painful part, I think. Hopefully the May update's addressing of the Guku issue will actually make a difference.
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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
Human (?) females look ugly.
Post in /K/ where the orbital laser system is now online.
#6 Apr 12 2011 at 10:21 AM Rating: Excellent
Aliekber wrote:
Daimakaicho, Eater of Souls wrote:
I found that the VNMs were very easy. As long as you find 3-4 other people who need it too, you can knock an entire trial out in a couple of hours, tops. I've been stuck on helms for a while myself, that's where it really slows down. Smiley: frown
Luckily for me, my (WHM + DNC + SAM) roommate is going after Masamune, so we both farm a Briareus and Carabosse set, then lot each others Helms/Gems. Should only take about ~16 runs to get enough Helms/Gems doing 2 of each per run.
That's a good idea. I know one linkshell member was going to need Carabosse soon, so I may go that route. I've never tried to low-man Briareus before though. Is it particularly difficult? I've tanked him before for an alliance, but as a taru I'm concerned about being two-hit by some of his TP moves.
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#7 Apr 12 2011 at 10:50 AM Rating: Good
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Briareus can be duo/trio'd pretty easily as long as you can stun Mercurial Strike. Helms drops are affected by TH only so many like to have a THF tank, but I have had great success doing NIN/DNC along with RDM and at times a BP and release SMN to speed things up a bit.

Build 5 flourish charges and pop him, hit him with all your enfeebs and start chipping away. Stand ready on the stun button.

I prefer to reserve TP to help heal myself, but each time I successfully stun his TP move, I will unload a WS.

Mercurial Strike usually isn't so bad, but if it lands for 1111 he will immediately 2-hour and that can be problematic as its massive damage spam makes things go bad fast. If he does get a 2-hour off the easy solution is to run like **** to stay out of range and kite for 30 seconds till it wears then get back in there. The best thing to do is to DNC Stun it and avoid it altogether, but you gotta be fast and ready. Most of the times I have low manned him, he might sneak a couple Mercurial Strikes in but none that trigger his 2-hour.

When I go without a THF I use C&D, Apoc and Atma of Dread (for TH) and my history is just under 75% of those give me the double helm drop. While not a DD oriented atma selection, I chose safety at the expense of speed as a couple extra minutes killing is a whole lot better than the time it takes to farm the pops, especially low-man. This should play well towards your taru concerns. With these each battle is not terribly long at about 8-10 minutes each.

When I go with a party or more, my atma selections are different, leaning back towards DD.

tl;dr Stunning Mercurial Strike makes this a fairly easy battle.

Good Luck.
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#8 Apr 12 2011 at 11:30 AM Rating: Good
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RaiseIII wrote:
tl;dr Stunning Mercurial Strike makes this a fairly easy battle.


Most of the time I haven't even bothered stunning it, I just start running if I see a TP move. If it's an 1111 Mercurial, I'm already out of range by the time Colossal Slam starts going off. So far I've only gotten hit by it once (the first time, when I didn't really know what I was doing). With Yurin and Myoshu, TP feed isn't much of an issue, so I use RR/GH/Apoc since his ACC is so crappy I still mostly evade in DD gear + Yonin (and keep him blinded).

I do lack TH with that setup, so I'm considering bringing my brother's WAR/THF15 to smack it once for TH1 then sit on the sidelines.

Edit: I'm not saying this is the most efficient way of doing things, just that he's very duoable. A THF/NIN won't have the luxury of Stun, but don't let that stop you.

Edited, Apr 12th 2011 11:34am by Aliekber
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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
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#9 Apr 12 2011 at 2:08 PM Rating: Good
Thanks for the advice guys, once I get back into having more playtime I'll give this a shot. I'd be going NIN/DNC for certain, so if I can get THF and WHM friends to tag along, I should be golden. How hard is collecting the KI?
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#10 Apr 12 2011 at 3:23 PM Rating: Good
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Daimakaicho, Eater of Souls wrote:
Thanks for the advice guys, once I get back into having more playtime I'll give this a shot. I'd be going NIN/DNC for certain, so if I can get THF and WHM friends to tag along, I should be golden. How hard is collecting the KI?


The only hard part about it is making sure you have the Red procs covered (NIN/WAR + healer does great here, naturally) and farming up the pops for the KI NMs. If you have Iga Ningi +1, Migawari will take the bite out of Moribund Hack (Pantagruel), which is really the only threatening move any of the 3 NMs have.

Generally the NMs will use a Roar move (Ice Roar/Lightning Roar/Impact Roar), which puts up non-Dispellable Ice Spikes/Shock Spikes/Attack Rate Increase*, respectively, until they turn it off by doing Moribund Hack/Trebuchet/Grand Slam, which can reset hate.

If you don't have AF3+1 body, you can just kite Pantagruel until he tries to Moribund Hack you while you're 20' away, and he'll waste his TP move, and lose his spikes. (Edit: This is if you're soloing the KI. If you have a healer, just straight tank him, and let them deal with the Paralyna/Cure spam at this point.)

*Based on personal experience, I haven't had anyone else verify this, but it seems to be the pattern to me.

Edited, Apr 12th 2011 3:26pm by Aliekber
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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
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Post in /K/ where the orbital laser system is now online.
#11 Apr 12 2011 at 7:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Wouldn't worry so much about not having TH if it's a hassle to bring. From my overall experiences with and without THF, the drop rate on the 2nd empy item seems to be 50% all around, high-level TH or not.

I should note that my experience primarily applies to empy NMs in Visions/Scars. Stuff like plates from Heroes ironclads and souls from Heroes T3 VNMs might be different. I killed the Ironclad in Grauberg many times in an attempt for DNC body seals (all without TH), and the 2nd plate drop rate on him seems a lot less than 50%.

Edited, Apr 12th 2011 9:13pm by Fynlar
#12 Apr 13 2011 at 3:49 AM Rating: Decent
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You can actually solo all of your helms, it's not that bad.

Make sure you have 10/13 red procs (Hakke Hachimaki that drops from Briareus + 7 Staff merits gives you Sunburst) for the lesser NMs and go NIN/WAR. Use Migawari to negate Moribund Hack as above, turn from the RNG's Shock Spikes, and just crush the WAR; all are doable with cruor meds alone.

For Briareus, go NIN/THF. You're just wasting your time without TH2 at the very least. With decent gear and running from Meikyo, cruor meds should carry you through the fight; spamming some Bastion so you can buy top tier potions is a great safety net. /DNC is not necessary, Stun is not necessary. Good luck!
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RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

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MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#13Sandmasterr, Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 5:47 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) would'nt it be equally as easy for the 3 T2's to atleast go /dnc to save using med that can be used for the boss. /WAR adds very little in comparison to the gains from /DNC.
#14 Apr 15 2011 at 10:43 AM Rating: Decent
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No, it wouldn't be anywhere near as easy to use /DNC for the triggers than /WAR. The only reason you are fighting them in the first place is to get their respective Key Item; /WAR doubles your chance at hitting the red weakness and guaranteeing that they drop; what does /DNC give you? Cures, which are easily handled with cheap meds you can buy on your way in. Also, there is no 'saving meds for the boss.' As you should be changing to /THF, it's implied that you are warping out to change subjob, which gives you the opportunity to purchase new meds on your way back in. If you have your Guerdon Abyssites (and let's face it, if you don't, you have more important things to be working on than Briareus Helms), you only have to purchase Potion2/Elixir1.

/DNC has no place if you're serious about being even remotely efficient about farming these. If you find you are unable to succeed without it, your NIN probably needs some work, and I mean this from a purely objective standpoint (as I have no idea what kind of gear you have, nor care, unless you want some advice); soloing has gear requirements. The time you waste using /DNC compared to /WAR and /THF would be better spent improving your other gear first.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#15 Apr 15 2011 at 11:00 AM Rating: Good
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You weren't kidding about VNM trials being faster. I knocked two out in a night without really trying, just need the Sheep trial and I can unload my Helm stock to start farming more of them.

I'm sure I'm in for a rude awakening at Sobek(A.K.A. Gukumatz), but so far I've been surprised at how easy these trials have been.
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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
Human (?) females look ugly.
Post in /K/ where the orbital laser system is now online.
#16 Apr 15 2011 at 11:35 AM Rating: Decent
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For all the complaints about Sobek, it was by far the easiest part. All I did was shout in Jeuno for 20 minutes to assemble a +2 party consisting of NIN WAR THF BLU BLM WHM and farm; it's not nearly as hard to claim Gukumatz when you have 6 heads out there vying for the claim. I finished in 2 days.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#17 Apr 15 2011 at 11:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Also, wanted to chime in on /WAR for solo farming Bri/Sobek KIs.

While /WAR does cover all our procs, I'd contend that (weird as it is to do so) /PLD is a better choice for most people, simply because it gives access to all the same procs* as /WAR, but adds Flash and Cures for added safety. /WAR will give a slightly faster killspeed on paper, but /PLD will let you be a lot more reckless because of your safety net (Flash alone can save your hide, not even mentioning Sentinel), and may be in fact faster in practice because of this.

The KI NMs shouldn't give you any trouble as it is, but if you are feeling trepidation from soloing /WAR, /PLD is a decent middle ground alternative, if you have it.

* And Sunburst as well, if you have Hope Torque (Hakke Hachimaki comes from Briareus himself, no excuses for not having it if you already have Torque)

Edit: This is not to say urdoinitwrong if you've had success with /WAR. By all means, more power to you. It's more to say that /DNC is no excuse not to proc, if you have access to /PLD37 or greater.

Edited, Apr 15th 2011 2:19pm by Aliekber
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Aliekber
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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
Human (?) females look ugly.
Post in /K/ where the orbital laser system is now online.
#18 Apr 15 2011 at 12:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Very good point; I didn't think it was worth all the effort to level PLD/acquire Torque, as I have neither; but if you already have both, it's definitely the better choice.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#19 Apr 16 2011 at 2:49 AM Rating: Default
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No, it wouldn't be anywhere near as easy to use /DNC for the triggers than /WAR. The only reason you are fighting them in the first place is to get their respective Key Item; /WAR doubles your chance at hitting the red weakness and guaranteeing that they drop; what does /DNC give you? Cures, which are easily handled with cheap meds you can buy on your way in. Also, there is no 'saving meds for the boss.' As you should be changing to /THF, it's implied that you are warping out to change subjob, which gives you the opportunity to purchase new meds on your way back in. If you have your Guerdon Abyssites (and let's face it, if you don't, you have more important things to be working on than Briareus Helms), you only have to purchase Potion2/Elixir1.

/DNC has no place if you're serious about being even remotely efficient about farming these. If you find you are unable to succeed without it, your NIN probably needs some work, and I mean this from a purely objective standpoint (as I have no idea what kind of gear you have, nor care, unless you want some advice); soloing has gear requirements. The time you waste using /DNC compared to /WAR and /THF would be better spent improving your other gear first.


The simple answer would have been '/war alllows you to easily proc red'. Which was in the first line, the rest is just babble.
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#20 Apr 16 2011 at 3:35 AM Rating: Decent
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What you're describing is good writing technique; lead out with a strong thesis, and then fill the body with points to support it. In case you didn't read closely enough, I may have been responding to you, but I write my responses to the entire audience to help them understand my points more fully and to make my advice more clear. If what I had to say was babble, why did every post above mine advise /DNC as the subjob of choice when it is clearly, unambiguously not? I could've just said you guys are a bunch of retards, but everybody always gives me sh*t for it; turns out, even when I'm constructive in my criticism, I get the same sh*t. Some incentive to be nice, eh?

If you happened to take something I said personally, I assure you, it is all in your head, and not in what I wrote.

But hey you want to be snide about it so consider this: the only reason I was forced to 'babble' was because you asked why /WAR would be better than /DNC. If you're going to ask stupid questions, you don't get to complain when you get what you consider to be stupid answers.

Edited, Apr 16th 2011 5:43am by LyltiaofLakshmi
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#21Sandmasterr, Posted: Apr 16 2011 at 4:26 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) This
#22 Apr 16 2011 at 10:52 AM Rating: Excellent
And this is what happens when someone has no counterargument and has to resort to petty insults.

Lyltia, I for one appreciate the advice you've given (and the well-written responses; there are far too few of those these days), so thanks for that. I appreciate a good post that is devoid of insults and heavy on advice.
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#23 Apr 16 2011 at 12:21 PM Rating: Good
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ITT: Sandmasterr doesn't think through the (valid) reasoning for using /WAR over /DNC, and then gets butthurt when someone (politely and informatively) calls him out on it.
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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
Human (?) females look ugly.
Post in /K/ where the orbital laser system is now online.
#24 Apr 17 2011 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
And rate bombing us doesn't help prove your point either Sand. Grow up.
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#25 Apr 17 2011 at 5:04 PM Rating: Decent
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The only point he seemed to have in the first place was, 'my **** hurts.' I have to give credit where it's due; I think he proved it beyond any and all doubt.
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rdmcandie wrote:
RDM can attain an almost static 50% reduction to recast time, SCH can over shoot this for a total of 60% reduction under Alacrity (provided you are wearing loafers and keeping dark weather on yourself)

rdmcandie wrote:
MACC is a joke, any job with access to mage gear can hit close the MACC cap on legion mobs, which is why my BRD/RDM can land slow/para/blind despite having only 150 skill (from /RDM.)
#26 Apr 17 2011 at 5:50 PM Rating: Good
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Ended up teaming up with a PLD who is working on Almace (my SAM friend is being a bum), since neither of us are doing it with LS support (well, we kind of do have LS support, but not in the sense of "I have minions who will farm 12 pop sets for me and then spam Briareus for my Helms"). NIN/THF and PLD/WHM can do all triggers but Scythe, and can take Briareus to town easily. Not to mention TH2 helps with pop item drops from NQ Gigas as well as increasing Briareus's Helm yield. It's been working out well so far. 43 Helms to go.
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Aliekber
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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
Human (?) females look ugly.
Post in /K/ where the orbital laser system is now online.
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