Lvl 90 Weapon ComparisonsFollow

Low end reference gear

Assuming 1 Furtherance Abyssite (purchased) for +20 to base stats (no Martello bonuses)
Food: Pizza
Atma: Stout Arm (1 atma)
Weaponskill: Asuran Fists

TP:
weapon // Thew Bomblet
Turban/C.Chain/Brutal/Coral
Aurore/Aurore/Rajas/Sniper
Amemet+1/Brown/Aurore/Fumas

WS:
weapon // Thew
Shura/Gorget/Coral/Coral
Aurore/OKote/Rajas/Ruby
Amemet+1/Warwolf/Aurore/Denali

Destroyers                           97.845 
Taipan +1 (no mods, old baseline)   102.353 
Furor Cesti                         105.211 
Taipan +2 (no mods, new baseline)   105.697 
Barracudas +2 (WS Dmg)              106.446 
Barracudas +2 (15 STP)              107.995 
Taurine Cesti                       109.210 
Taipan +2 (fire)                    109.500 
Taipan +2 (def down, 30% active)    109.771 
Ursine +2 (OAT/high damage)         112.297

High end reference gear:

Food: Red Curry Bun
Assuming 3 Furtherance Abyssites for +40 to base stats (no Martello bonuses)
Atma: RR + GH + VV (until Triple Attack is implemented and new atma details are nailed down)
Weaponskill: Ascetic's Fury

Triple Attack not yet accounted for. Faking Epona's TA by making it a +9% DA ring.

TP:
weapon // Thew Bomblet|Tantra Tathlum
Tantra+2/Faith/Brutal/Aesir
Tantra+2/Tantra+2/Rajas/Epona
Cerb+1/Black/Tantra+2/Tantra+2

Unknown set bonus not accounted for

WS:
weapon // Tantra|Thew
MKE/Gorget/Brutal/Kemas
Tantra+2/Heafoc/Rajas/Epona
Cerb+1/Anguinus/Usu/Tantra+2

Boost not used for weaponskills.
MKE: 4 str, 15 ws.acc, 2% ws.dmg

Destroyers                          245.406 
Taipan +1 (no mods, old baseline)   251.139 
Taipan +2 (no mods, new baseline)   257.716 
Taipan +2 (def down, 30% active)    258.077 
Barracudas +2 (WS Dmg)              259.175 
Barracudas +2 (15 STP)              259.161 
Furor Cesti                         260.398 
Ursine +2 (OAT/high damage)         257.104 
Taipan +2 (fire)                    262.787 
Taurine Cesti                       266.090 
Revenant +2 w/A.Fury                266.245 
Spharai (90)                        304.109 
Revenant +2 w/V.Smite               327.825 
Verethragna (90)                    406.036

Edit: Didn't account for +MA trait from body; figure ~2.6% gain for most of them from -10 delay.

Edited, Dec 9th 2010 7:40pm by Kinematics

I'm guessin the OAT2-4 must gurentee Double kick rate.

Still amazing how much Vere and Rev pull ahead. I have this nagging feeling SE wil make Abyssea obselete in the rise to 99 (which is why imo they give players such unrealistic boosts via atma's). What would be the DMG on your comparisons is no atma was attached?

Just wondering as SE will needsomting else in the run to 99, as abyss mobs already EP at 88-90 (although thqat doesnt really matter, just slows down the run to max exp gain). I'd like to see a quick comparison of High end gear with no atma's.

How do you want me to test the Alpha omega? I can use staff?

Looks like we will have a ton of new atma options to test out. Also going to have to try out triple attack atma while using footwork see what that does. There are also a ton of store TP major atmas that would also work with footwork which might be interesting. Might be able to get to 4 hit.

Also that one with +50 attack and triple attack+10

Melee Data 
 
Player               # Melee Attacks    # Melee Rounds    Attacks/Round    # Extra Attacks 
Radec                            122                68                1                 54 
 
Player               # +1 Rounds   # +2 Rounds   # +3 Rounds   # +4 Rounds    # >+4 Rounds 
Radec                         54             0             0             0               0 
 
Player               # MultiAttack Rounds    MultiAttack %     Kills w/Min Attacks    Kills w/<Min Attacks 
Radec                                  54          81.82 %                       2                       0 
 
 
Treat As: 
 
Multi-attacks per attack (2x/3x): 
 
Player               # Double Attacks    DA Rate    Perc. DA     # Triple Attacks    TA Rate    Perc. TA 
Radec                              54    81.82 %    100.00 %                    0     0.00 %      0.00 % 
 
Multi-attacks per round (Kicks): 
 
Player               Footwork?    # Rounds w/Kicks    Kick Attack Rate 
Radec                      Yes                  54             81.82 % 
 
Multi-attacks per attack (Zanshin): 
 
Player               # Missed First Attacks    # DA w/Missed First   Possible Zanshin % 
Radec                                     7                      6              85.71 % 
 
Player               Acc. Rate of First Attacks    Acc. Rate of Second Attacks 
Radec                                   89.71 %                       100.00 % 
 
 
 

Oa4 H2H, naked aside from them and gaiters. Can work on more samples after campaign pops somewhere with a fort to beat on. Dissapointed it isn't 100%.

This was done on 3 fortilaces, fresh footwork each time.

Edit: More details: /dnc, 5/5 Kick merits

Edited, Dec 10th 2010 12:48pm by Radecx

Ok, implemented TA into weaponskills as well as melee.

Setting up a couple simple comparisons using mid-grade gear set and 2-3 atma. +40 to all stats from cruor buffs. Haste spell, no other haste buffs. Impetus used (60% uptime). No Boost used. Bison Steak.

Weapons are either Fire Taipans +2 using Ascetic's Fury or Revenents +2 using Victory Smite.

First atma is always RR:
Taipans: 176.483
Revenants: 216.276

Sets with second atma of:

Stout Arm:
Taipans: 195.090
Revenants: 240.763

VV:
Taipans: 200.038
Revenants: 249.695

GH/DD:
Taipans: 200.113
Revenants: 242.242

A&O (assumed 10% TA for Major effect):
Taipans: 200.848
Revenants: 242.273

Sanguine Scythe:
Taipans: 199.543
Revenants: 240.684


So VV, GH and A&O are all roughly on par with each other and slightly ahead of SA. VV takes a slight lead with Revenant's Victory Smite use due to the high str.


With a third atma you have room to push a bit more defensive stats in your atma choice, so may want something like Sanguine Scythe's +HP, GH's +counter, Siren Shadow's +eva, etc. Your choice in that regard depends on what you're doing, so I'll just note it and move on.

For pure, unmitigated offense, what sorts of combos can we put together?


Max crit rate: RR+GH+DD (reduces the effectiveness of Impetus)
Taipans: 210.821
Revenants: 255.304

So only a small gain.

Max crit damage: RR+GH+Sanguine Scythe
Taipans: 228.753
Revenants: 277.303

So a fairly healthy gain, and +HP as well.


Add triple attack to either VV or GH:
RR+GH+A&O:
Taipans: 225.418
Revenants: 273.484

RR+VV+A&O:
Taipans: 225.965
Revenants: 285.174

About the same either way for the Taipans, though the Revenants get a lot more from combining with VV. Both are fairly close to the RR+GH+SS option, which I'd likely choose simply for +30% HP instead of -25% HP; GH+SS certainly provides excellent defense along with the offense.

There's also Roaring Laughter. Major Str implies +40 there (same as Stout Arm). Since GH's +counter of ~10% is Minor, would expect +15% with Major +counter, though might be as high as 20%. Even 15%, though, combined with GH and Counterstance would put us at a nominal 85% counter rate, up to 93% with Usu hands, Backlash Torque, Ultion Mantle and WotG reward earring, and then Perfect Counter for another percent or two. Would be nigh immune to melee hit damage.

Ordinary damage output including that as the third (RR+GH+RL):
Taipans: 208.066
Revenants: 256.727

Back to being only a small improvement over two atma in terms of damage output. The extra counter rate should more than make up the difference, though, I think. With those three atma, I don't think there'd be any excuse left not to go /war, except maybe if you need someone to proc ninjutsu nukes.

And just realized I'd left in the -10 MA delay from the Tantra+2 body in these calculations, so actual values should be slightly lower. Relative scale should remain the same, though, so I don't feel like going back and redoing it all.



Edited, Dec 10th 2010 6:17pm by Kinematics

Yeah, that seems like the best all-purpose combo until RL is found.

Well, you should have capped crit rate on anything with an agi of ~93 or less, which should really cover everything you'll be fighting outside Abyssea...

Picked a mob with 92 agi, to see the most direct loss from crit rate as other gear is swapped in. There's lots of fussiness in the results depending on exact target mob stats. Just making rough estimates for now.

Damage with your gear set (start with Byakko's), with/without Impetus: 1816/1592

Switching Thunder to Spiral: 1815/1589
- Slightly weaker; keeping thunder
Switching legs to Usukane: 1800/1579
- weaker; staying with Byakko's
Switching Love Torque to gorget: 1817/1588
- minimal change
Switching Warwolf to ele.belt: 1770/1547
- notably weaker for both; keeping Warwolf
Switching hume RSE feet to Tantra +1: 1815/1592 (1830/1605 with Tantra+2)
- no notable change with the +1; the +2 is slightly better

So overall it seems there's no single piece that's worth changing out.


However, if we start with swapping Thunder to Spiral:

Switching legs to Usukane: 1830/1602
- improvement
Switching Love Torque to gorget: 1863/1631
- more improvement
Switching Warwolf to ele.belt: 1839/1610
- notably weaker for both; keeping Warwolf
Switching hume RSE feet to Tantra +1: 1869/1638 (1871/1642 with Tantra+2)
- slight improvement with +1s, with a further slight improvement with the +2s

Assuming you're not capping attack, and staying with Tantra+1 feet:
Switching Enkidu hands to BKote: 1895/1669
Switching Enkidu hands to Heafoc (only if staying at capped acc): 1933/1698
- Using Heafoc

Switching Delta to Kemas earring: 1940/1703
- another slight gain

Switching Black Tathlum to:
Tantra Tathlum: 1948/1707
Thew Bomblet: 1966/1727
- Using Thew

And for reference, swapping bodies to:
Loki's: 1934/1682
Tantra +1: 1973/1736
Tantra +2: 2000/1761
- So Loki's is a worse option here than Osode, whereas either of the Tantra bodies is an improvement.

Not counting the body change, going the str route seems to be about a 6%-7% improvement over the dex route, even though you were losing crit rate almost right off the bat as gear changed. With mobs with lower agi the relative difference should swing more in +str's favor, and with higher agi the +dex build won't get as much out of its crits either.

Even if things round in Justice Torque's favor, the gorget should still be slightly better. Warwolf gets the str plus a high probability of +crit as well. Hard to compare all possible config options, but in general warwolf is likely to be slightly ahead of the belt, while either 5 dex or 5 str on their own don't quite win vs the gorget.

not sure how to test the rate, but i just obtained the atma a few min ago. id be willing to assist if told directions etc

Kine already answered that at the top of the page btw...




Edited, Dec 17th 2010 11:37pm by hitoseijuro

is 2-3 h2h faster tp gain w/ or w/o footwork? Trying to see what's best to use when going for blue !! on h2h

Sorry I didn't see that, thanks for all the great work =)

Went out and did 1k attacks on atma of apocalypse tonight.


parse came up really weird though. I have the saved parse if you want to play around with it and see why I was getting these results.

Used a single dagger on dnc/nin, the triple attack rounds would overlap into the next round so would look like 4 swings in a row. No DA or TA gear was used, etc.

Melee Data 
 
Player               # Melee Attacks    # Melee Rounds    Attacks/Round    # Extra Attacks 
Tigerwoods                      1147               774                1                373 
 
Player               # +1 Rounds   # +2 Rounds   # +3 Rounds   # +4 Rounds    # >+4 Rounds 
Tigerwoods                    36            30            59             5              12 
 
Player               # MultiAttack Rounds    MultiAttack %     Kills w/Min Attacks    Kills w/<Min Attacks 
Tigerwoods                            142          18.56 %                       9                       0 
 
 
Treat As: 
 
Multi-attacks per attack (2x/3x): 
 
Player               # Double Attacks    DA Rate    Perc. DA     # Triple Attacks    TA Rate    Perc. TA 
Tigerwoods                         36     4.71 %     54.55 %                   30     3.92 %     45.45 % 
 
Multi-attacks per round (Kicks): 
 
Player               Footwork?    # Rounds w/Kicks    Kick Attack Rate 
Tigerwoods                 Yes                  36              5.46 % 
 
Multi-attacks per attack (Zanshin): 
 
Player               # Missed First Attacks    # DA w/Missed First   Possible Zanshin % 
Tigerwoods                               54                      1               1.85 % 
 
Player               Acc. Rate of First Attacks    Acc. Rate of Second Attacks 
Tigerwoods                              93.02 %                       100.00 % 
 
 
 

Edit:
http://www.mediafire.com/?8b2t5ghqpqow6ii

Edited, Dec 19th 2010 7:13am by Veggeto

It's only TA. no DA on that atma.

Almost no point in using A/O then with it's very slight increase and negative HP as compared to defensive stats of GH or SS.

Are you planning to do high end build w/ smite (and if so was going to ask for RR GH SS to see how far going defensive is behind offensively, but I'd assume your old numbers for Max crit damage: RR+GH+Sanguine Scythe
Taipans: 228.753
Revenants: 277.303 would still aplly)


Edit:

Crit dmg not capped anymore off SS. Time to get Loki? How'd it do for fstr capped tp and vs osode for smite? (assuming 74% crit rate)

Edited, Dec 21st 2010 1:49am by Veggeto

Interestingly enough, Backhand Blow is already in the spreadsheet.

I'd picked it at random one time when I wanted a low damage weaponskill to use up TP but not kill the mob too fast, and did 1300+ damage. Looked at the mods and realized it was a mini-Ascetic's Fury, but with dex mod instead of vit (so can better take advantage of RR atma). Unfortunately 30%/30% is far enough away from 50%/50% that it ended up being right on par with Asuran Fists for average damage, so I didn't bother bringing it up here.




I apparently missed this. Crit damage bonus not capped at 50% anymore?

Anyway, will redo the above numbers using Revenants with Victory Smite.

Where does Atma of Roaring Laughter fit in? STR+: Major(+50 str), Evasion-: Major, Counter+: Major



Edited, Dec 21st 2010 5:23am by Bresss

Kine,

How do level 90 relic/mythic weaps math out in comparison now that there is 25% dmg added on relic ws, 15% dmg added on mythic ws?

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/90723-Relic-Augments?p=4317458&viewfull=1#post4317458

Relic ws gets 25% dmg increase.

Mythic ws gets 15% dmg increase.

Both when using the weapon only, obviously.

Should A/O read 288.769 here?