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#27 Nov 04 2008 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
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Also, unless it was ninja-changed and I didn't realize it, doesn't Rajas Ring get its stats in 15 level increments... meaning it's not +5 STR/DEX until 75?
#28 Nov 04 2008 at 2:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah you're right actually. I'm pretty sure i saw Milich say someplace that it's better than Sniper's from 65, though...i could be mistaken of course.
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#29 Nov 04 2008 at 8:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Ethereal Earing is another accepted choice from Apocalypse Nigh. Just depends on your build with other gear to make up for the ATK instead of ACC (Maybe +1 Sniper(s) or HQ Shura Togi)and play style.

Edited, Nov 4th 2008 11:41pm by xXBijiontXx
#30 Nov 04 2008 at 9:09 PM Rating: Good
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Once again, I'd like to avoid Ethereal vs Hollow issue, but I feel that Ethereal worth a mention because it's an acceptable alternative. No, it's not better than Hollow, but it's far from "crap" to be excluded from the guide which focuses on "average and better gear". If the guide includes the likes of H-Kote, Pahluwan Hands, Shura Head, Potent Belt, etc just because they're decent alternatives, I find it weird that Ethereal is excluded from the guide.

I feel no harm to put Ethereal in the guide as there can be enough notes to make it clear that Hollow should be #1 choice from Apocalypse Nigh if MNK is your main job. However, if you already have Ethereal from other jobs, it's acceptable to wear it on your MNK too. Not to mention that Ethereal can be useful as it offers both Attack and Evasion for times when you want to solo or mini-tank.

However, I do understand that I don't really have a say in determining what's on and what's not in this guide. So it's okay if you want to keep Ethereal off the guide. I just hope that this post is reasonable enough. ^^


Oh, and I would also like to say it again that Denali Gamashes is a good pair of feet armor for Asuran Fists.


Edited, Nov 5th 2008 12:14am by Vaagan
#31 Nov 04 2008 at 9:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Diabolos Er level 65 - +3 accuracy is nice. I carry this around even at 75 for times that I'm eating Meat and not in Dynamis.
#32 Nov 04 2008 at 10:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Great guide, I've been putting something like this together for myself, and this is very similar. The biggest difference I have, is I have Tourney Patas and Patas +1 at Lv.40, and Lv.48 respectively. Also, at Lv.70, TMH+2 start to outperform CC/Retaliators, until Wagh.

These are very subtle differences, but if you want the best possible progression, this is the way to go. Very nice format^^ its easy on the eyes.
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#33 Nov 04 2008 at 11:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Once again, I'd like to avoid Ethereal vs Hollow issue, but I feel that Ethereal worth a mention because it's an acceptable alternative.


Exactly, I career MNK but I picked Ethereal myself as I find myself in more solo/duo tanking aspects of the game then just "balls to the walls damage".

Both earrings are great and have their place, you can't go wrong really.

No need for "But this is better then this" crap, we just trying to guide newer MNKs anyways away from "really" bad choices. . . like leveling in AF pants . . or pure AF. . . Still see MNKs doing this.
#34 Nov 05 2008 at 1:49 AM Rating: Default
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Vaagan wrote:
I feel no harm to put Ethereal in the guide as there can be enough notes to make it clear that Hollow should be #1 choice from Apocalypse Nigh if MNK is your main job. However, if you already have Ethereal from other jobs, it's acceptable to wear it on your MNK too.


(You did keep your post reasonable lol) But in situations other than solo, Merman's will increase your DoT more than an Ethereal will.


xXBijiontXx wrote:
I career MNK but I picked Ethereal myself as I find myself in more solo/duo tanking aspects of the game then just "balls to the walls damage".

Both earrings are great and have their place, you can't go wrong really.

No need for "But this is better then this" crap, we just trying to guide newer MNKs anyways away from "really" bad choices. . . like leveling in AF pants . . or pure AF. . . Still see MNKs doing this.


Thats fine, you want to justify why you picked the wrong earring - if you could go back in time (especially as you say you are a career MNK) would you still pick a sub par earring for your career Mnk?

Remember - Merman Earring > Ethereal Earring for DoT
Dodge Earring = Ethereal earring for evasion builds



Edited, Nov 5th 2008 4:50am by Sandmasterr
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#35 Nov 05 2008 at 3:50 AM Rating: Good
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Good stuff so far, but a mention of the Denali set couldn't hurt, at least the feet anyways since they are pretty nice for WS. Diabolos's Earring is nice too, unless theres Dark weather around (don't wear in dynamis!).
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#36 Nov 05 2008 at 5:04 AM Rating: Good
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Maybe i should change to Topic name to "Acceptable gear to use in exp parties".

I'm not going to include Ethereal Earrng, because from a purely DD point of view it's crap for it's level.

Merman's Earring is better than it from a DD perspective.

I'll include Diabolos's Earring.

I'm not too sure about the Delani gear though.-

Edited, Nov 5th 2008 8:07am by Nilatai
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#37 Nov 05 2008 at 6:18 AM Rating: Good
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The denali set as a whole is meh, but the feet are the best WS piece around, second only to Usukane Sune-Ate.

Edited, Nov 5th 2008 9:19am by Norellicus
#38 Nov 05 2008 at 6:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'll put the feet in then. Basicly i want people to read this and get an idea of what's the better gear to be using.

Again, the reason i'm not going to include Ethereal is that you have to pick one. If you have an Ethereal for another job, great. Don't use it on MNK. For MNK Merman's is actually better than it. Diabolos's Earring is better than it. Hollow Earring is definately better than it.

I don't want people to think "Hmm, well for my MNK i'll pick Ethereal from Apocalypse Nigh because it's good too". You have to make a choice, and the right choice for MNK is Hollow Earring.

Edited, Nov 5th 2008 9:45am by Nilatai
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#39 Nov 05 2008 at 7:35 AM Rating: Good
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Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
I'm not going to include Ethereal Earrng, because from a purely DD point of view it's crap for it's level.

Merman's Earring is better than it from a DD perspective.
Edited, Nov 5th 2008 8:07am by Nilatai


There are still situations in which we do more than "purely DD" and for that reason I would advocate putting Ethereal on the list. It's a paltry 1 attack less than Merman's, and in the place of -evasion you get +evasion and HP. Both good stats to have if you're playing the role of a DD/tank hybrid. 15 HP might not seem like much, but I can still name off a handful of times I've stayed alive hanging onto single-digit HP.

Anyway, just a little perspective. Outstanding list so far.
#40 Nov 05 2008 at 9:32 AM Rating: Good
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Sorry guys, i'm sticking to my guns on this one.

However i will direct people reading the list to the Apocalypse Nigh discussion that's linked in the MNK Index.
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#41 Nov 05 2008 at 9:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Overlord Cyroul wrote:
Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
I'm not going to include Ethereal Earrng, because from a purely DD point of view it's crap for it's level.

Merman's Earring is better than it from a DD perspective.
Edited, Nov 5th 2008 8:07am by Nilatai


There are still situations in which we do more than "purely DD" and for that reason I would advocate putting Ethereal on the list. It's a paltry 1 attack less than Merman's, and in the place of -evasion you get +evasion and HP. Both good stats to have if you're playing the role of a DD/tank hybrid. 15 HP might not seem like much, but I can still name off a handful of times I've stayed alive hanging onto single-digit HP.

Anyway, just a little perspective. Outstanding list so far.


I've died from Astral Flow by ~50 dmg more than my HP before. Should I start wearing BQ ring?

No matter how you slice it, the effects of an Ethereal Earring are marginal; either you're DDing in a Merman's Earring -1, or tanking in an Elusive Earring +1. In fact, it could be argued that the added benefit of the HP is nulled by the -magic damage of the Merman's, since if your HP is a limiting factor in your activity you're likely taking copious amounts of magic damage.

Edit: Nil, I don't know where to find it but Pahn did some math on Spike Necklace vs Tiger Stole, and it tends to fall in line with the same reasoning behind using Mighty Rings too; if you (or anybody) knows where that is, you may want to change your tone on those early neck pieces and reference that bit.

Edited, Nov 5th 2008 1:06pm by Norellicus
#42 Nov 05 2008 at 10:21 AM Rating: Good
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This guide has been very helpful. Thank you for putting the time in.
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#43 Nov 05 2008 at 10:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Norellicus wrote:

I've died from Astral Flow by ~50 dmg more than my HP before. Should I start wearing BQ ring?
Edited, Nov 5th 2008 1:06pm by Norellicus


Start wearing a galka costume. Smiley: lol

Yes it's marginal any way you look at it, +1 here -1 there. And I disagree with the bit about the magic damage as there are still a few mobs that get in our face with big physical hits (chariots).

Personally, I think the fact that there is even a discussion about this topic should merit an inclusion or a footnote at the very least regarding Ethereal as a *viable* choice if not an overwhelmingly ideal one.
#44 Nov 05 2008 at 1:22 PM Rating: Default
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great guide!

here's the pahn post with tiger stole vs spike necklace
#45 Nov 05 2008 at 2:06 PM Rating: Good
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I'll ask Milich if he'll do some calculations with reference to H2H on those.

Thanks guys.
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#46 Nov 05 2008 at 3:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
I'll ask Milich if he'll do some calculations with reference to H2H on those.

Thanks guys.


me, re:WAR wrote:
at 21, i’d imagine tiger stole wins, and they quickly become even, but i’m not sure. um... let’s see what weapon you use then...

k, neckchopper. so base dmg is about 45. spike necklace has a 75% chance of raising base dmg by 1. assuming that happens, it’s about a 2.222% increase. 3DEX gives about 2ACC, and thus 1ACC%. assuming your ACC is mad low (50%), that’s a 2% increase for a total increase of 4.2%. the ACC bonus will be more or less static, and the base dmg % increase will get lower as your weapons’ base dmgs increase. however, the total bonus should always hover around 3%.

5ATT will give around a 4% increase once your ATT is, um.... let’s do algebra, assuming mobs are 7 levels above you:

[((X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35)-(X/(X/1.25)-.35)]/(X/(X/1.25)-.35) = .04
well, (X/(X/1.25)-.35) = X * X/1.25 - .35 which = 1.25 - .35, which = .9, so...
our original equation can become...
[((X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35) - .9]/.9 = .04
((X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35) - .9 = .036
(X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35 = .936
(X+5)/(X/1.25) = 1.286
(1.25X + 6.25)/X = 1.286
1.25X + 6.25 = 1.286X
6.25 = .036X
173.611 = X

soooooo, tiger stole will beat spike necklace until your ATT is around 175. the lower the mobs DEF, the earlier spike necklace will come out ahead, but this is about as close to a “general rule” as one could deduce on the topic.


but MNK base damage won't be 45 @lv21, it will be about 20-25 (h2h skill, rep knucks, 5-10 fSTR).

1/22 = 4.5%. add around 1% DoT from the 1-2 ACC, and it's about a 6% increase.

so,

[((X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35) - .9]/.9 = .06
((X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35) - .9 = .054
(X+5)/(X/1.25)-.35 = .954
(X+5)/(X/1.25) = 1.304
(1.25X + 6.25)/X = 1.304
1.25X + 6.25 = 1.304X
6.25 = .054X
115.7etc = X

so, at around 115ATT, spike necklace will be better (when it raises fSTR). i'd say it's not guaranteed to win until around 150ATT, but they'll be pretty similar.
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#47 Nov 05 2008 at 4:53 PM Rating: Good
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I know Im new to the forums and as such have little right to comment or critique, but has anyone considered making a non list gear guide? I also think that first job Monks may have a different gear set till around the mid 30s to even as late as 50 if they have trouble establishing a monetary base. I know I didnt even put on knuckles or take off my RSE till well into the teens.

I also think that End game gear should be in a completely different Gear Guide, highlighting the options available, and in what circumstances you might carry them around/use them.

Im not sure if it's possible, but I think Macro gear should be off to the side as well, or at least indented to show that it is not for primary wear (though I am glad to see comments to the fact). There is just so much gear it would be great to see it arranged in a more user friendly manner. Anyways, thank you for all your hard work.
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#48 Nov 05 2008 at 6:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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This is gear you should use. This is the bare minimum of what's expected of you. Some of the gear is hard to obtain, sure, but if you're using something that's not on this list you're gimping yourself.

Stop leveling and farm, there's no excuse to be otherwise.


Any non-gear stuff you need to know as MNK can be found in the Sticky at the top of this forum, read it...

Edited, Nov 5th 2008 9:03pm by Nilatai
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#49 Nov 05 2008 at 6:51 PM Rating: Good
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Great Guide, I must apologize to the MNk community though. I am guilty of wearing AF pants in exp parties, I did it mostly because I thought it was acceptable from seeing other monks do it and that our leg choices were limited. I have seen the error of my ways and will not be exping until there is improvement in my leg equipment.
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#50 Nov 05 2008 at 7:13 PM Rating: Good
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pahnk wrote:
Great Guide, I must apologize to the MNk community though. I am guilty of wearing AF pants in exp parties, I did it mostly because I thought it was acceptable from seeing other monks do it and that our leg choices were limited. I have seen the error of my ways and will not be exping until there is improvement in my leg equipment.


happily, rep subligar is an improvement, and it's dirt cheap.

edit: there's better options your level than rep subligar, but i'm in dynamis and rep subligar really is cheap.

Edited, Nov 5th 2008 10:29pm by milich
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#51 Nov 05 2008 at 10:15 PM Rating: Good
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Sandmasterr wrote:
Thats fine, you want to justify why you picked the wrong earring - if you could go back in time (especially as you say you are a career MNK) would you still pick a sub par earring for your career Mnk?

Remember - Merman Earring > Ethereal Earring for DoT
Dodge Earring = Ethereal earring for evasion builds


I didn't make a wrong choice, I picked the earring which works best for my activities.

I solo and duo 80% of the time when I log into FFXI. I am also tanking so with this earring I am able to keep Evasion and Attack without having to sacrifice either.

I just wanted to offer the suggestion to Nilatai, nothing more. If Nalatai (which happened) didn't see it fit for the guide then so be it. Still won't change my mind or make me regret my choice. I am happy with what I get out of the earring so why try and "Justify" it to you or anyone else for that matter?

Thanks for the default also, I am trying to remember why I even post here. . .
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