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#52 Nov 06 2008 at 2:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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#53 Nov 06 2008 at 4:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thanks for the default also, I am trying to remember why I even post here. . .


Because your a Mnk, and debating is all part of what we do here. I'd prefer if alla got rid of the stupid rate functions, but i would miss sub nuking the trolls that pop up from time to time.
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#54 Nov 06 2008 at 4:27 AM Rating: Good
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xXBijiontXx wrote:
Sandmasterr wrote:
Thats fine, you want to justify why you picked the wrong earring - if you could go back in time (especially as you say you are a career MNK) would you still pick a sub par earring for your career Mnk?

Remember - Merman Earring > Ethereal Earring for DoT
Dodge Earring = Ethereal earring for evasion builds


I didn't make a wrong choice, I picked the earring which works best for my activities.

I solo and duo 80% of the time when I log into FFXI. I am also tanking so with this earring I am able to keep Evasion and Attack without having to sacrifice either.

I just wanted to offer the suggestion to Nilatai, nothing more. If Nalatai (which happened) didn't see it fit for the guide then so be it. Still won't change my mind or make me regret my choice. I am happy with what I get out of the earring so why try and "Justify" it to you or anyone else for that matter?


I think this is pretty spot on. It's not as simple as right and wrong. From a purely DD standpoint Hollow Earring is better, and no one is arguing with that. But there are other activities in the game where you're not purely a DD. If you're soloing or low-manning something where you actually want to wear an evasion set-up, then what's better in the ear slot: Evasion +5 (Elusive Earring) or Evasion +5 Attack +5 and HP+15 (Ethereal Earring)? Obviously Ethereal is better in that situation. You can't just say this is better than that, because a lot of people have jobs other than MNK, or only use MNK for certain activities/situations. And for their playstyle, Ethereal could very well be the better Earring. **** is situational. End of Story.
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#55 Nov 06 2008 at 5:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Ravensbad wrote:
xXBijiontXx wrote:
Sandmasterr wrote:
Thats fine, you want to justify why you picked the wrong earring - if you could go back in time (especially as you say you are a career MNK) would you still pick a sub par earring for your career Mnk?

Remember - Merman Earring > Ethereal Earring for DoT
Dodge Earring = Ethereal earring for evasion builds


I didn't make a wrong choice, I picked the earring which works best for my activities.

I solo and duo 80% of the time when I log into FFXI. I am also tanking so with this earring I am able to keep Evasion and Attack without having to sacrifice either.

I just wanted to offer the suggestion to Nilatai, nothing more. If Nalatai (which happened) didn't see it fit for the guide then so be it. Still won't change my mind or make me regret my choice. I am happy with what I get out of the earring so why try and "Justify" it to you or anyone else for that matter?


I think this is pretty spot on. It's not as simple as right and wrong. From a purely DD standpoint Hollow Earring is better, and no one is arguing with that. But there are other activities in the game where you're not purely a DD. If you're soloing or low-manning something where you actually want to wear an evasion set-up, then what's better in the ear slot: Evasion +5 (Elusive Earring) or Evasion +5 Attack +5 and HP+15 (Ethereal Earring)? Obviously Ethereal is better in that situation. You can't just say this is better than that, because a lot of people have jobs other than MNK, or only use MNK for certain activities/situations. And for their playstyle, Ethereal could very well be the better Earring. sh*t is situational. End of Story.


Picking a one-time reward for a highly situational series of circumstances and marginal-at-best change over an AH available piece of equip is foolhardy. This is what you fail to acknowledge.

Other jobs are always a consideration of course, and if you have a PLD (or maybe a NIN/DRK) then you might actually see some good use from Ethereal, and it carries the side benefit of working for other jobs too (unlike the DM earrings); that doesn't make it any less a marginal piece of equipment for the job in question in this very forum.

It's like picking a Bushinomimi or Knight's Earring for your WAR, or Beastly Earring for your BRD (other jobs aside, we already covered that). Of course it's a frickin improvement if there's stats on it; but compared to what you could have picked and the benefits thereof, it's a ridiculously poor choice.
#56 Nov 06 2008 at 6:38 AM Rating: Good
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Please don't turn this into a Hollow Vs Ethereal debate.

Underneeth Hollow Earring i've linked the discussion we already have on the subject, that also happens to be linked in the sticky.

This is to give MNKs an idea of what they should be doing when they're gearing for DDing.

There are already Chi Blast and Soloing guides linked in the sticky. However all the gear threads are now outdated. As i'm pretty active on these forums, i'm in a position to both read what the community thinks about certain gears and impliment changes to the gear thread.


I thank all of you for your co-operation in making this thread what it is. I still would like to ask you to take your debate about the earrings to the apropriate thread.

Thanks again, Nil~
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#57 Nov 06 2008 at 7:33 AM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:
This is to give MNKs an idea of what they should be doing when they're gearing for DDing.

In this case, you might want to consider taking off the non-DD gear such as Boxer's Mantle, Arakan Samue, and Orochi Nodowa.

Don't forget to add Diabolos's Earring too btw. ^^ Keep up the good work and hopefully this guide will continue to be updated in the future.
#58 Nov 06 2008 at 7:42 AM Rating: Good
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Those are specificly for soloing, i've stated that, so they can stay.

My point is, if you only have one choice for that Earring, you should pick the DD one, which is why it stays as it is.

Diabolos's Earring added.


edit: I wonder if we should try to sticky this, so that we can make sure it's always seen. Thoughts?

Edited, Nov 6th 2008 10:47am by Nilatai
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#59 Nov 06 2008 at 11:35 AM Rating: Good
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While we're looking at alternative gear / sidegrades, you may want to consider adding Iota Ring for those who do Einherjar. Loss of a half-point of acc in exchange for +3 DEX/VIT/AGI, versus other 5 ACC rings.
#60 Nov 06 2008 at 11:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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If it compares well to Woods/Sniper's/Divisor/Uthalam's i'll add it.
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#61 Nov 06 2008 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
If it compares well to Woods/Sniper's/Divisor/Uthalam's i'll add it.


Small downgrade in acc vs. Woods/Snipers; eliminates the negatives; small boost in crit%, evasion, damage reduction; should increase damage on HF and DK by +1/+2 with a small chance on Asuran.
#62 Nov 06 2008 at 11:53 AM Rating: Good
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Hmm, i'll add it. I'll try and get some DoT equasions done for it though.
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#63 Nov 06 2008 at 12:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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edit: I wonder if we should try to sticky this, so that we can make sure it's always seen. Thoughts?


Ofcourse you should bloody sticky it! :P
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#64 Nov 06 2008 at 12:18 PM Rating: Good
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Sandmasterr wrote:
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edit: I wonder if we should try to sticky this, so that we can make sure it's always seen. Thoughts?


Ofcourse you should bloody sticky it! :P


I've linked it in the Index, but as we've seen time and time again, people don't bother to read it before they post.

I don't think the same person can have more than one sticky anyways.
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#65 Nov 06 2008 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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Nilatai the Intelligent wrote:
I don't think the same person can have more than one sticky anyways.


:lol:
#66 Nov 06 2008 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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Overlord Cyroul wrote:
While we're looking at alternative gear / sidegrades, you may want to consider adding Iota Ring for those who do Einherjar. Loss of a half-point of acc in exchange for +3 DEX/VIT/AGI, versus other 5 ACC rings.


much like ethereal earring (which gives you ATT when you really don't need it--ie when the EVA is helping--and EVA when you really don't need it--ie when the ATT is helping), i don't see the point of iota ring. you don't need ACC vs stuff that you can evade, and you don't need DEF either, usually (counterstance). 3DEX won't do anything to your crit rate, most likely (and if it DOES do a lot for your crit rate, you're using an lolDEX build and probably sucking).

actually, i just figured out a time where getting iota ring would make sense. you're a player who wants as much VIT as possible in their chakra macro. you also chose either non-rajas or non-ulthalam, and don't expect to buy sniper+1. in that situation, iota saves an inventory slot for a (possible) marginal DoT loss.

"what's the difference b/w 3DEX 3ACC and 5ACC anyway?"

if your total DEX ends up odd, 3DEX 3ACC is giving you 4ACC, if it ends up even, it's giving you 5ACC. the difference b/w 5ACC and 5ACC is, you guessed it, nothing. 1 ACC gives .5ACC%, which is probably around .6% DoT depending on your ACC%. it's not at all a big deal, but it's a pointless loss to absorb in my opinion. lv75-equip means no ACC ring for lv cap or later lv40 jobs, so i think iota ring fails.
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#67 Nov 06 2008 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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In after stickification.

I've added Iota Ring, i'll link Milich's post under it though, people can make up their own minds.
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#68 Nov 06 2008 at 1:17 PM Rating: Good
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Nilatai wrote:
Those are specificly for soloing, i've stated that, so they can stay.

Just would like to mention that the note for Boxer's Mantle only said how to get one. Might want to add the solo bit to it too so the readers don't accidentally purchase it before Brutal Earring which is a much better and more important purchase.

And it's okay about not putting Ethereal ^^ It's your guide and I can understand if you don't want to mention the earring at all.
#69 Nov 06 2008 at 1:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Vaagan wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Those are specificly for soloing, i've stated that, so they can stay.

Just would like to mention that the note for Boxer's Mantle only said how to get one. Might want to add the solo bit to it too so the readers don't accidentally purchase it before Brutal Earring which is a much better and more important purchase.

And it's okay about not putting Ethereal ^^ It's your guide and I can understand if you don't want to mention the earring at all.


Ah, my bad, i'll add the note about soloing. Thanks :)

On the note of not mentioning Ethereal, read the thread about the Apocalypse Nigh earrings i linked, and you'll know why i won't put it in.
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#70 Nov 06 2008 at 4:32 PM Rating: Good
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Removed Iota Ring because i'm inclined to believe Milich when he says it's crap.
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#71 Nov 06 2008 at 6:17 PM Rating: Good
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Norellicus wrote:

Picking a one-time reward for a highly situational series of circumstances and marginal-at-best change over an AH available piece of equip is foolhardy. This is what you fail to acknowledge.


I never said you should pick Ethereal earring over Hollow, or vice versa. And I agree that for someone who uses MNK a lot, in many situations, Hollow is the better earring. I was just pointing out that for some people, those "highly situational series of circumstances" are all they use MNK for, and for them Ethereal would be a better choice. Which means it's not as black and white as people are making it out to be. Sorry for the derail, grats on the sticky.
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#72 Nov 06 2008 at 9:29 PM Rating: Good
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Your argument fails because if someone is in those specialized circumstances, then that's really not all they use MNK for, else they'd just throw some **** together for the rare cases they're on the job. You don't merit the jobs you don't play frequently, so why pick one-time rewards based on them?
#73 Nov 06 2008 at 10:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Nilatai wrote:
Please don't turn this into a Hollow Vs Ethereal debate.


I stopped bringing it up guys/gals, so would everyone else please. . .

It's seriously not that important anymore.

Great sticky none the less Nilatai, now if only people would read them more often lol.

#74 Nov 06 2008 at 11:01 PM Rating: Good
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it IS free, and it IS basically a sniper's ring, so i don't think it's bad for people to know about it. i just think it's silly to delude oneself into thinking that its other stats do anything (i'm looking at you, garrulous ring).

ethereal vs hollow debate can be summed up easily: hollow (and merman) give more DoT than ethereal. you don't need evasion vs mobs that you need ATT for. ethereal sucks for MNK-only. (ethereal is fine for MNK if you already have it for PLD or DRG/mage or NIN/DRG; inventory can be tight)

(stock response: maybe it's great for MNK/stupid-job in ballista, since that's usually the case for things that suck)
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#75 Nov 07 2008 at 6:17 AM Rating: Good
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BTW

COngragulations to Jinte for Player of the month.

BUT >>>>>>

Allakazham wrote:
What is your favorite job and why?

Jinte wrote:
That's really tough. I love playing Pup because of how versatile it can be, but Warrior fits my personality like a glove
.



/upset
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#76 Nov 07 2008 at 7:42 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, he answered that question wrong...

His favorite job should be MINING MY MINES

Pickaxe, You can have this.

PS, finish CoP you nub

Edited, Nov 7th 2008 10:46am by Norellicus
#77 Nov 07 2008 at 7:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Norellicus wrote:
Yeah, he answered that question wrong...

His favorite job should be MINING MY MINES

Pickaxe, You can have this.


That's why he picked WAR, Dual-Wield Pickaxes. Smiley: laugh
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#78 Nov 07 2008 at 7:49 AM Rating: Good
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That info deserves its own thread, brb
#79 Nov 07 2008 at 7:39 PM Rating: Good
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Hooray, stickied outside of the sticky sticky, so now there can't be any more sticky sticky complaints (which there shouldn't have been any to begin with) about said stickied gear.

...and sticky.
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#80 Nov 11 2008 at 10:17 PM Rating: Good
Grats on sticky Nilatai Smiley: boozing
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#81 Nov 12 2008 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
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Renowaikk, Pie Eating Champion wrote:
Grats on sticky Nilatai Smiley: boozing


Fanksh Smiley: chug
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#82 Nov 13 2008 at 7:05 PM Rating: Good
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Hey Nilatai, I was just checking out the guide for acceptable pieces until I can get some of the endgame pieces, and noticed that you have Temple Hose in there.

Why? There is no point to wear it aside from Guard skilling, and that is also pointless, why doesnt it have a throw away disclaimer like Beat Cesti? Or do you need it for something else? Even Aikido pants have better +Counter.

Also, didnt Pahn do the math on NKote being better than O or BKote with Focus off and eating meat? Wouldnt Usukane Gote be an upgrade from NKote, and an upgrade from Ochiudos and Bandomusha with full set?
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#83 Nov 14 2008 at 2:34 AM Rating: Good
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hillsnr wrote:
Hey Nilatai, I was just checking out the guide for acceptable pieces until I can get some of the endgame pieces, and noticed that you have Temple Hose in there.

Why? There is no point to wear it aside from Guard skilling, and that is also pointless, why doesnt it have a throw away disclaimer like Beat Cesti? Or do you need it for something else? Even Aikido pants have better +Counter.


I wrote:
Lvl 60 - Temple Hose. For the love of all that is good and pure in the universe DON'T use these in exp parties.


If you're going to store your AF, like i know most people do when they're not playing MNK, you need the full set. Also the title is nice to have. That's the only reason they're mentioned. However, i'll add something similar to Beat Cesti.



hillsnr wrote:
Also, didnt Pahn do the math on NKote being better than O or BKote with Focus off and eating meat? Wouldnt Usukane Gote be an upgrade from NKote, and an upgrade from Ochiudos and Bandomusha with full set?


I think there's a link floating around about that in this thread. I'll link it next to the NKote though.
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#84 Nov 14 2008 at 12:38 PM Rating: Default
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LV58 Spartan Cesti? little slower than TM hooks, but give a little acc and almost identical in damage. Nice alternative to CC/retal, imo.
#85 Nov 14 2008 at 4:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Riamond wrote:
LV58 Spartan Cesti? little slower than TM hooks, but give a little acc and almost identical in damage. Nice alternative to CC/retal, imo.


They suck. No, sorry.
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#86 Nov 20 2008 at 6:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Hey, what about the Wivre Mask?

lvl 65:
20 Defense 2 str, 2 vit, 10 evasion

Edited, Nov 20th 2008 9:48pm by DubA
#87 Nov 20 2008 at 6:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Hey, what about the Wivre Mask?

lvl 65:
20 Defense 2 str, 2 vit, 10 evasion


Good piece of soloing equip can be used in PT if you want.

I got HQ I macro it in for Chakra atleast till I get Genbu's hat
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#88 Nov 21 2008 at 2:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Um..no.
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#89 Nov 21 2008 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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Um..no.


+10 eva on NQ and +12 on HQ STR and VIT? I am not sure I understand?!
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#90 Nov 21 2008 at 4:40 PM Rating: Good
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+3 str, +3 Vit, 12 Eva on the HQ
#91 Nov 22 2008 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
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Cuz people will see it and assume it's acceptable gear to wear. Same reason i didn't include Panther/Tiger masks.
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#92 Nov 24 2008 at 6:00 PM Rating: Good
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What about Denali Bonnet? Gives one less haste than Walahra Turban and 3 attack more than the turban.
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#93 Nov 25 2008 at 12:18 AM Rating: Good
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I was going to include the Denali gearset actually, i'll add the stuff in later.
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#94 Nov 26 2008 at 5:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Added WS Gorgets and Denali set(Cuz it looks cool).
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#95 Dec 19 2008 at 10:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Lvl 30 - Rajas Ring. Obtained by Finishing the Chains of Promathia main storyline. An excellent ring to be sure, but not Optimal to full time until you get the full +5 to all stats(Level 65).


The above statement is misleading in multiple ways. You get +4 to str/dex at 60, you get +5 at 75. It's a solid replacement for snipers from 60 on.
#96 Dec 20 2008 at 1:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Great guide. Is there any reason you haven't listed Chargers Mantle under back pieces? I see you listed the boxers which is imho far inferior to a chargers mantle for a mnk.
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#97 Dec 20 2008 at 6:48 AM Rating: Good
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kubrell wrote:
Great guide. Is there any reason you haven't listed Chargers Mantle under back pieces? I see you listed the boxers which is imho far inferior to a chargers mantle for a mnk.
That's because Amemet Mantle +1 is better than Charger is. Forager's Mantle is even better. Charger Mantle is a waste of coins.
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#98 Dec 20 2008 at 6:49 AM Rating: Good
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Kinematics wrote:
Quote:
Lvl 30 - Rajas Ring. Obtained by Finishing the Chains of Promathia main storyline. An excellent ring to be sure, but not Optimal to full time until you get the full +5 to all stats(Level 65).


The above statement is misleading in multiple ways. You get +4 to str/dex at 60, you get +5 at 75. It's a solid replacement for snipers from 60 on.
Edited accordingly. Feel free to make another post explaining why and i'll link to it next to Rajas. Smiley: smile
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#99 Dec 20 2008 at 2:12 PM Rating: Good
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There was debate about the two rings in this thread, and I have a couple posts explaining some of the factors near the bottom of the first page. There's slight imperfections in the math I posted (this was before we'd gotten solid confirmation about 2 acc == 1% hit rate), but those actually favor snipers a bit, so the conclusion remains the same.

Simple explanation:

At 60 you get +4 dex, +4 str. +4 dex is +2 acc, so we primarily just want to look at 4 str (Rajas) vs 3 acc (Sniper). 4 str is pretty much a guaranteed +1 fStr. At level 60 with TMH+2's and base +4 fStr, another +1 is a 2.2% increase in base damage; 2.1% if using CC's. 3 acc is 1.5% hit rate; if your base hit rate is 70% (moderately low) then the extra accuracy is a 2.1% improvement.

So, without even considering the Store TP or extra +attack from the Str, the Rajas is on par with a Sniper for total damage at level 60, and thus a "solid replacement" from that level onward.

#100 Dec 20 2008 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
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Okay thanks, details added. Smiley: wink
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#101 Dec 27 2008 at 8:04 PM Rating: Good
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It's a minor detail, but Jaguar Mantle is 47, not 48. Otherwise this has been very helpful, thanks.
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