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#102 Jun 15 2011 at 10:02 AM Rating: Good
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I've never said that I don't like aura steal. I've only said that I find neither aura steal nor assassin's charge very useful.

As for the ice spikes thing, sure, if I am walking up to an ice elemental or an undead mage, I use steal first to pull ice spikes off. As to the casting thing, well, thieves attack fast, unless I turn around, I have about a 40 percent chance of getting steal off before my next attack round, and I think that is being favorable to my chances of getting steal off first. I generally keep meleeing in an attempt to interrupt the spell.
#103 Jun 15 2011 at 10:07 AM Rating: Default
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Meldi wrote:
I've never said that I don't like aura steal. I've only said that I find neither aura steal nor assassin's charge very useful.

As for the ice spikes thing, sure, if I am walking up to an ice elemental or an undead mage, I use steal first to pull ice spikes off. As to the casting thing, well, thieves attack fast, unless I turn around, I have about a 40 percent chance of getting steal off before my next attack round, and I think that is being favorable to my chances of getting steal off first. I generally keep meleeing in an attempt to interrupt the spell.


Your timing is subpar, the only time I melee before I steal an ice spikes is if I'm zoned out and not paying attention. In 100% of situations where I'm paying attention I always get the steal off before I melee with ice spikes on.
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#104 Jun 15 2011 at 10:22 AM Rating: Default
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Yes I personally "ignored" any AS argument because it doesn't apply to me. You saying "No" is pointless because that's not even what I was talking about. Its like you saying water is liquid and I say "No" the sun doesn't travel around the moon.

No matter what justifications people have for AS, they are are moot if you have 1 mage with Dispel there. Will I always have a dispel mage by my side.... not likely; but I will 100% of the time if its a mob that needs dispelling. And if that's the case, then AS would be useless on a five-min timer.

Is 1 AS overall better than 5/5 AC, yes. Does it really matter, no.

Just going around in circles. Round and round we go.



Edited, Jun 15th 2011 12:35pm by Shirakx
#105 Jun 15 2011 at 10:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Except for these situations:

1) Mob comes with many buffs, dispel has a 10s recast (and that mage might just have other things to cast)
2) Mob uses an ability that gives two buffs
3) You actually don't have a dispel!

Bard, Red mage, scholar...all pretty rare these days. I think you'd only see them in larger parties/alliances and even then, maybe only 1-2 of them. The likelihood of no dispel or limited dispel is pretty high.
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#106 Jun 15 2011 at 10:38 AM Rating: Default
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The likelyhood that you're planning to fail if you don't bring a mage dispel on a mob that needs it is also pretty high.
#107 Jun 15 2011 at 10:41 AM Rating: Default
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Also, having a Blm/rdm is pretty common in any party these days.
#108 Jun 15 2011 at 10:41 AM Rating: Decent
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And the likelihood that you don't NEED a dispel, but it SURE COMES IN HANDY is extremely high.
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#109 Jun 15 2011 at 10:48 AM Rating: Default
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A Blm/rdm sure is handy as well.

Riposte!
#110 Jun 15 2011 at 11:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah BLM/RDM is really good for haste.

Oh wait.
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#111 Jun 15 2011 at 12:00 PM Rating: Good
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SirEaglestrike wrote:
Yeah BLM/RDM is really good for haste.

Oh wait.


December....
#112 Jun 15 2011 at 12:12 PM Rating: Default
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I don't know about you Eagle, but imo nothing Shirakx is saying warrants a response. They're trollish and contribute nothing to the debate.
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#113 Jun 15 2011 at 12:38 PM Rating: Default
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Deadgye wrote:
I don't know about you Eagle, but imo nothing Shirakx is saying warrants a response. They're trollish and contribute nothing to the debate.


The key to it is that he's not a clearly obvious troll, so he doesn't make people completely ignore him. Added on, I'm very good at getting people to respond to most of my posts, so the more I respond, the more likely it's going to make someone want to respond.

People want the forums back alive, and that's what I do. Factual, mature, understanding posts only get responses for as long as new information comes out. New information is nearly dead, therefore only arguments are left to keep the forums going. Sometimes you have to push them a bit.
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#114 Jun 15 2011 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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Deadgye wrote:
Quote:
Its not DISPEL!!! /drool, its "I get 3 dispels in 15 minutes. Is that worth only getting 2 guaranteed TAs in 15 minutes?" That is the basis of opportunity cost.


It's really not. If we could create an apples to apples comparison like that this debate would be easy and nice, but that's not possible. When you put a merit into aura steal you are not decreasing a timer. You are giving yourself a functionality. If you're riding timers constantly and mobs have buffs up constantly then yes your scenario comes into play. But only paying attention to that scenario and ignoring all the other ones is being incredibly biased. You have to consider every situation your thief is going to be in. Putting one merit into Aura Steal gives you the ability to dispel when solo. It gives you the ability to take off an evasion boost that the mages weren't going to dispel that decreased the dot of all 6 melees hitting the mob. Etc. Its effectiveness doesn't become completely useless if you don't use it less than every 7.5 minutes.

If we do your comparison and Aura Steal wins, then it's clear who the victor is. But if we do your comparison and Aura Steal loses, it's still not clear which is better.



I agree that that isn't the whole answer, however, in order to make an informed decision you do need to be aware of what the maximum potential is for both senarios. The maximum cost of having dispel is 1 triple attack guaranteed. The cost of having 1 more triple attack guaranteed from 2 to 3 is 3 dispels. And that is the maximum potential of both of these options. You have to establish the cost of one option over the other before you can actually make a fact based decision.

Then you get into things like...

am I soloing/low manning more than group activites? [Yes, well, extra TAs are useless to me since I won't be able to SA/TA + WS ever, Aura steal it is.], [No, I do all big group stuff, I have 6 rdms that come regularly, AS isn't as useful, I think I will go AC, or No, I do all big group stuff, but having my own dispel will still be useful]. Be aware that I am being kind of silly with one of those HYPOTHETICAL thought processes.

do I fight mobs that actually buff with regularity? [Yes, some points towards meriting AS over AC], [No, well AS is completely useless then as I won't be able to dispel anything, AC, here we go!!]

Here is a list of the things I have been fighting lately and how useful AS has been.
Orthus - basically that annoying flame spikes every time he uses, which is often, AS is useful for this
Bennu - Evasion boost, Feint is more useful than AS for getting rid of it, and on a smaller timer. AS still useful, but dulled because of feint.
Blanga - Atk bonus, meh, still hits like a truck without it, but I have shadows anyway.
Durinn - No buffs that I know of
Buhkis - No buffs that I know of
Briarius - No buffs that I know of
Glavoid - No real sure, don't think there is anything I can dispel
Chloris - Regen I guess, maybe something else
Dragua - I am sure there are buffs, but I haven't fought it in a while so I don't know what.
Resheph - No buffs
Khimaera/Hydra - sure lots of buffs, AS is useful

This is why I think you guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill with AS. Sure it is nice having a dispel handy, but at least 50% of my current target mobs can't even buff themselves. It just isn't that useful. I keep it because I do find utility in it, and having it is worth losing 1 TA in fifteen minutes to me, but it isn't as game breaking as it is being made out to be.
#115 Jun 15 2011 at 1:08 PM Rating: Decent
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No one is stating it is "game breaking". Just that the advantage of 4/5 to 5/5 AC is so minor it is absurd to give up a whole other utility aspect of the job for it.
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#116 Jun 15 2011 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I keep it because I do find utility in it, and having it is worth losing 1 TA in fifteen minutes to me, but it isn't as game breaking as it is being made out to be.


That is all we are saying. That it's worth at minimum losing 60-90% guaranteed extra Triple Attack every 5 minutes. We aren't claiming it's some SUPAHAX ability.

Edited, Jun 15th 2011 3:54pm by Deadgye
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#117 Jun 15 2011 at 3:03 PM Rating: Decent
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SirEaglestrike wrote:
No one is stating it is "game breaking". Just that the advantage of 4/5 to 5/5 AC is so minor it is absurd to give up a whole other utility aspect of the job for it.


But you aren't giving up a whole utility aspect of the job. You are giving up a very lame dispel (that is dependant on the success rate of item steal) and tied to a 5 minute recast timer. The ACTUAL utility of which, is very very very low.
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#118 Jun 15 2011 at 3:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Nebo1 wrote:
SirEaglestrike wrote:
No one is stating it is "game breaking". Just that the advantage of 4/5 to 5/5 AC is so minor it is absurd to give up a whole other utility aspect of the job for it.


But you aren't giving up a whole utility aspect of the job. You are giving up a very lame dispel (that is dependant on the success rate of item steal) and tied to a 5 minute recast timer. The ACTUAL utility of which, is very very very low.


Good to see you've ignored all arguments thus far. You're still mentioning it being tied to the success rate of steal? Very few mobs even HAVE items to steal, aside from skeletons, you're pretty safe from item stealing to have any effect on things, and even that is rather low.

Surely being tied to a 5min recast timer makes something useless! Flee is useless! 5/5 AC is useless! Truly that 5min timer is ruinous and there is no point to any ability on a 5min timer!

Man...I mean...really?
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#119 Jun 15 2011 at 3:43 PM Rating: Decent
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SirEaglestrike wrote:
Surely being tied to a 5min recast timer makes something useless!


Not everything. But a dispel on a 5 minute timer defintely is.

Then again, 5 minutes is really too long for any steal ability imo.

Edited, Jun 15th 2011 5:48pm by Nebo1
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#120 Jun 15 2011 at 4:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Nebo1 wrote:
Not everything. But a dispel on a 5 minute timer defintely is.


Disagree.

Nebo1 wrote:
Then again, 5 minutes is really too long for any steal ability imo.


Agreed.
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#121 Jun 15 2011 at 5:20 PM Rating: Good
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The thing that I'm laughing most about is everyone's attempt to prove superiority of AS or AC by calculating marginal, statistical utility of both skills. For me, that's not the point.

I have NO PROBLEM with my damage output without AC. I triple attack all by myself with astounding regularity - we all agree on 5/5 triple. I don't need AC to do that. My ego doesn't require additional stroking - I manage quite well in that department already, lol.

However, I have NO ability to dispel a mob aside from acid bolts and with only 1/5 AS, next to no ability to apply longer term buffs to myself when soloing. And I solo a lot on thf.

To each his own. I'm very happy with my 5/5 AS and don't miss the AC one bit.

Oh and for Aanalaty, I laugh at both your Mustang and Camaro in my Subaru STi (I'm old - it's my mid life crisis car). :)
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#122 Jun 15 2011 at 10:24 PM Rating: Good
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Oh and for Aanalaty, I laugh at both your Mustang and Camaro in my Subaru STi (I'm old - it's my mid life crisis car). :)


I just never fell in love with the subaru designs. The new camaros are the first car i actually really like aesthetically in a long time, so I got me a 2010 camaro preordered straight from the factory about 1.5 years ago ^_^ The 1st car I ever buy is everything I ever dreamed it wold be. Makes me the happy to have a stick shift again. I also love that they discontinued the color mine is in after the 1st year (my color got replaced by a lime green for 2011 models eew) so mine is definately an eye catcher now and might turn into a little collectors item later ^^

<3 my camaro /snuggles.

Its a shame the mustangs are a bit faster out of the gate even thoguh they are less powerful. Stangs are a lot lighter and the 1st 3 gear ratios are better set for optimal acceleration. But on the other hand, chevy didnt do that so they could dodge the gas guzzler tax on camaros as they have better city milage since they adjusted the gear ratios for a little less low acceleration in 1-3rd gear and use less gas unlike the mustangs.

But LAWL at mustangs governor set at 113 MPH. LAME [Mhuara]hahaha! My little V6 Camaro RS governor is set to 155 LOLstang. That thing is a beast on a flat stretch of road. Stang may get an edge in the 1/4 mile, but they dont stand a chance crankin it up to high speeds!
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#123 Jun 16 2011 at 4:59 AM Rating: Good
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Glsd you love your car Aanalaty. That's the main thing.

The STi was perfect for me (and a real hoot on the track). When Subaru offered a hatch back design, that was it for me (I was also looking at the Mitsu Evo X and the BMW 135i). I hated the "boy racer" look with the garish big wing of the older sedan versions. My STi now has great performance -and- great everyday utility.

Hmmmm. Kinda what this thread is about in my view.

PS

Performance of cars these days is insane. When I was younger, a friend of mine had a Dodge Challenger. This wasn't the hemi but a 440-6pack with over 400 HP. My STi will do faster 0-60 and 1/4 mile than that car did.

And good on you for going stick!

Edited, Jun 16th 2011 7:04am by Lokithor
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#124 Jun 16 2011 at 8:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Needs moar Corolla AE86. And moar multi-track drifting.
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#125 Jun 16 2011 at 8:33 AM Rating: Good
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I was actually thinking about the 135i when i was looking for a little bit. But I was really leaning with either an avenger, malibu, and even a chevy cobalt for a bit. I was always a very 'practical' driver. I just wanted to go from point A to point B. Little econo box 4 seater was all i ever wanted my entire life. I never cared about horsepower or top speed. Then a guy at work started pushing me towards the BMW 135i and I thought it was OK, but i didnt really care to pay that much for a 'fast car' (insert practical mindset).

Then I saw the camaro on the chevy site....and i was in luv. And it actually came in the exact color i have wanted in a car for my entire life (which is notoriously hard to find i have found)....and i was sold (the color they no longer carry stock). Ironically, i had already decided to buy it before i even knew it was in the transformers movie, so I can rest easy i didnt get pulled in by some childhood transformers nostalgia/marketing ploy.

1.5 years later, I havent once had a moment of weakness where i 'wish' i bought something else. Still exceptionally happy with it. Im keepin this baby for a looooooong time ^_^

Speaking of blue awesome things, i am now 12.5% done with my mythic at 3763 alexandrite. Lets hope i dont grow to hate that color before i finish this exceptionally PITA quest xD

.....oh yeah...topic >_>

umm....lets see here...tie this back in here, connect that over there, AH TOPIC!

Mustangs are lame! (5/5 AC is LAME!)It may have a sliver more acceleration out the gate (hair more damage on command), but in the long run on an ideal track, you will loose out to the top speed of camaros (The times AS is VERY good even if rare) and the harder to measure non speed (damage) benefits of better gas milage (MP/cast time/attention saved on mages). Besides, camaros are more than fast enough (4/5 AC has enough damage) for every day use that you wont really 'miss' that extra few tenths of a second on a 0-60, even though it might make you 'feel' better 'knowing' its there (the damage is a placebo even though it makes no practical difference for daily use).

Besides, if max speed (personal epeen) is all you care about to the extent that you would give up that gas milage and potential, though rare, top speed (rather have that 1 more triple every 15 than general utility), shouldnt you just forgo all gas milage and other benefits and go buy (level) a Corvette or even some supercar? (Drg, War, Drk out of abyssea, etc)

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#126 Jun 16 2011 at 10:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Well this thread certainly took an unexpected turn.
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#127 Jun 16 2011 at 6:45 PM Rating: Good
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SirEaglestrike wrote:
Well this thread certainly took an unexpected turn.


That sucks for the Mustangs and Camaros
#128 Jun 16 2011 at 7:18 PM Rating: Decent
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The thread is over, time to discover, dreams and places.
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#129 Jun 17 2011 at 12:10 AM Rating: Good
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SirEaglestrike wrote:
Red mage, scholar...all pretty rare these days. I think you'd only see them in larger parties/alliances and even then, maybe only 1-2 of them. The likelihood of no dispel or limited dispel is pretty high.



No, it really, really isn't. Just like saying having katon is a pretty rare if you ever party with a THF. Sure, the THF may be gimp and not have NIN sub or tools, but every good one will. Just like every good mage will be subbing SCH or RDM. Exception being BRD who guess what? Has a native dispel. Given the standard duo is WHM + anything, if your WHM is wanting to be too lazy to carry a scroll or cudgel, then well...

Same goes for even BLMs. Unless they want to have a cheap teleport, they should be subbing SCH or RDM.
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#130 Jun 17 2011 at 1:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Hey guys, Feint is awesome, no need for Aura Steal
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#131 Jun 17 2011 at 7:53 AM Rating: Good
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You didn't land feint until 17:36:56. Which was 13 seconds after the evasion boost. Once you landed it, you hit all except one swing. And you only had 1:45 seconds til you could use it again. I never said feint invalidated the use of Aura steal, I said its smaller recast timer makes it MORE useful for dispelling evasion boosts that aura steal.

Edit: Speaking of which. SA and TA should function like feint where if you don't land it, it isn't wasted. I still have people in my linkshell that dodge TA like they aren't tanking anyway with the entire LS at capped hate...

Edited, Jun 17th 2011 8:57am by Meldi
#132 Jun 17 2011 at 11:04 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm pretty sure the SS proves that Feint is not "more useful" for dispelling evasion boosts, considering it took 13s to get it off when Aura Steal would've removed it instantly.
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#133 Jun 17 2011 at 11:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Or, you could, you know, just have BOTH AS and Feint and have the best of both worlds >_> Then instead of figuing out which is MORE useful, you can just have the BEST eva-downing thf is capable of without any fancy smancy thinking.

Kinda like you can use acids AND steal protect. You can use both feint and AS. Such an intriguing idea..../strokes beard thoughtfully.

They are not mutually exclusive.

Edited, Jun 17th 2011 1:49pm by Banalaty
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#134 Jun 17 2011 at 12:31 PM Rating: Good
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SirEaglestrike wrote:
I'm pretty sure the SS proves that Feint is not "more useful" for dispelling evasion boosts, considering it took 13s to get it off when Aura Steal would've removed it instantly.


Ok, so one instance where a THF mob that also happens to have an evasion boost move and AS is going to be better than Feint for removing an evasion boost. There are relatively few of those, so, with some small exceptions, yes feint is still better for removing evasion boost because...

1. Feint guarantees that you are going to get the evasion bonus, and not magic def bonus from the mob.
2. Feint can be used 2.5 times in the time it takes for AC to recharge.
3. When a mob that isn't THF/NIN uses an evasion move, it probably wont floor your accuracy like that.

Edit: @ Banalaty, you are right, if only I had merited 5/5 Feint, 4/5 AC, 1/5 AS.... oh wait...

Edited, Jun 17th 2011 1:32pm by Meldi
#135 Jun 17 2011 at 3:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Sigh is a VERY strong, but rather short-lasting (duration may vary by TP; idk), evasion boost. By the time you were able to land the Feint hit, the effect was probably close to wearing off if not gone already :p
#136 Jun 17 2011 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Meldi wrote:

Edit: Speaking of which. SA and TA should function like feint where if you don't land it, it isn't wasted. I still have people in my linkshell that dodge TA like they aren't tanking anyway with the entire LS at capped hate...


I still have thieves in my linkshell that Trick Attack me when I'm the only one getting hit (on Warrior...)

(This coupled with the overabundance of averagely skilled Thieves is why part of my passion for this job has dropped. I feel happier not focusing on Thief, at least verbally, when every linkshell or group I'm in some fairly new player or new to Thief player suddenly announces that Thief is now their main job...particularly when there is never a shortage of them to begin with.)
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#137 Jun 17 2011 at 4:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Meldi wrote:
SirEaglestrike wrote:
I'm pretty sure the SS proves that Feint is not "more useful" for dispelling evasion boosts, considering it took 13s to get it off when Aura Steal would've removed it instantly.


Ok, so one instance where a THF mob that also happens to have an evasion boost move and AS is going to be better than Feint for removing an evasion boost. There are relatively few of those, so, with some small exceptions, yes feint is still better for removing evasion boost because...

1. Feint guarantees that you are going to get the evasion bonus, and not magic def bonus from the mob.
2. Feint can be used 2.5 times in the time it takes for AC to recharge.
3. When a mob that isn't THF/NIN uses an evasion move, it probably wont floor your accuracy like that.

Edit: @ Banalaty, you are right, if only I had merited 5/5 Feint, 4/5 AC, 1/5 AS.... oh wait...

Edited, Jun 17th 2011 1:32pm by Meldi


You have shown 0 reasons where the difference between 4/5 and 5/5 AC matters. I have shown one example thus far, with more existing (there are other mobs out there with evasion boost moves, including THF ones). And since it's been established many times this is a debate over putting 1 into AS or 0 into AS, proving that AS has some worth means that it is to be taken.
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#138 Jun 17 2011 at 7:31 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Edit: @ Banalaty, you are right, if only I had merited 5/5 Feint, 4/5 AC, 1/5 AS.... oh wait...


This wasnt directed at people who have it merited :P Just that any 'argument' that Feint is 'more useful' than AS somehow negating the usefulness of AS is moot because no matter which is more useful, having both will always be even more useful than either alone. Also, no one in their right mind will drop ALL their feint merits (i would really hope not anyway) no matter what so its never going to be an either or scenario between feint and AS unless you go 5/5 AC and 5/5 AS...which is not only really odd/rare, but not the point of discussion (AC/AS).

I get that the point was 'feint can let you get away without AS' using eva boost as an example, but its the ONLY example (feint cant 'dispel' anything else) and it still ignores the point that having both is still better than just relying on feint anyway.
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Mandau-75: 3/9/2012

Maat-1/1 Thf Meleed (pansies steal)
Some of mah gearz: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Aanalaty#item-sets
Join 'People Against The Heart Snatcher' and help put Thfs on the right P.A.T.H.S. today!
#139 Jun 18 2011 at 7:37 AM Rating: Good
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TheBarrister wrote:

I still have thieves in my linkshell that Trick Attack me when I'm the only one getting hit (on Warrior...)

Huh? You're saying that they shouldn't be TA'ing you? The way TH works now, thieves should be SA and TA every time the timer is up in order to ratchet up the TH level. If you're already tanking, you're the logical person to TA onto. If you object to tanking, get the thf to collaborator you afterward (although that's a waste of an ability that should be helping to shed hate from jobs less able to deal with it than war).
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#140 Jun 18 2011 at 8:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm pretty sure the SS proves that Feint is not "more useful" for dispelling evasion boosts, considering it took 13s to get it off when Aura Steal would've removed it instantly.


It does? It seems like you just proved that you didn't know how to deal with sigh.

SA > Feint > Hide > Feint lands next attack round and you are good to go.

Edited, Jun 18th 2011 10:50am by Nebo1
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Nebo
THF99/BRD99
#141 Jun 18 2011 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
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Nebo1 wrote:


Quote:
I'm pretty sure the SS proves that Feint is not "more useful" for dispelling evasion boosts, considering it took 13s to get it off when Aura Steal would've removed it instantly.


It does? It seems like you just proved that you didn't know how to deal with sigh.

SA > Feint > Hide > Feint lands next attack round and you are good to go.

Edited, Jun 18th 2011 10:50am by Nebo1


That would be a rather excellent way to get her killed, yes.

And OH MY GOD GUYS

YOU COULD ONLY DO THAT TACTIC EVERY 5 MINUTES!
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Ladyofhonor: 99THF/PLD/RUN
100+7 Alchemy
Zilart/CoP/ToAU complete.
Mandau 119
#142 Jun 18 2011 at 9:08 AM Rating: Decent
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SirEaglestrike wrote:
YOU COULD ONLY DO THAT TACTIC EVERY 5 MINUTES!


I know that sucks....why so many JA's we have are tied to that magical 5 minute timer is beyond me.
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THF99/BRD99
#143 Jun 18 2011 at 9:12 AM Rating: Decent
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SirEaglestrike wrote:
That would be a rather excellent way to get her killed, yes.


Accomplice? (Which is also on a 5 minute timer XD)?

Or you could....

TA (in non TA set) > Feint > Collaborator. Your friend should not be recieving hate from that anyway though.

ACC swap > Feint.

There really are a few ways to deal with that situation without AS.


Edited, Jun 18th 2011 11:17am by Nebo1
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THF99/BRD99
#144 Jun 18 2011 at 10:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Nebo1 wrote:
SirEaglestrike wrote:
That would be a rather excellent way to get her killed, yes.


Accomplice? (Which is also on a 5 minute timer XD)?

Or you could....

TA (in non TA set) > Feint > Collaborator. Your friend should not be recieving hate from that anyway though.

ACC swap > Feint.

There really are a few ways to deal with that situation without AS.


Edited, Jun 18th 2011 11:17am by Nebo1


You're recommending I either risk her life (she'll be killed from a double/trick attack or one crit) or always move her to standing in front me (I was dual boxing) instead of just pick up one merit and drop a 5/5 for AC?

Yeah, ok bud. You're doing even more petty bickering than I typically do on forums just to keep a thread going.
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Ladyofhonor: 99THF/PLD/RUN
100+7 Alchemy
Zilart/CoP/ToAU complete.
Mandau 119
#145 Jun 18 2011 at 10:24 AM Rating: Decent
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SirEaglestrike wrote:
You're doing even more petty bickering than I typically do on forums just to keep a thread going.


No, I was just responding to your statement that AS is so much more useful than feint for dealing with evasion buffs like Sigh.

It isn't. Also, most tonberries have items to steal.

But I agree with what has been said that it really isn't a question of either or, since you can have both. I just don't see the need to have both, and I don't see much value in AS as it exists currently.

Edited, Jun 18th 2011 12:25pm by Nebo1
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THF99/BRD99
#146 Jun 18 2011 at 10:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Nebo1 wrote:
SirEaglestrike wrote:
You're doing even more petty bickering than I typically do on forums just to keep a thread going.


No, I was just responding to your statement that AS is so much more useful than feint for dealing with evasion buffs like Sigh.

It isn't.


How is it not? It's instant, in the time it takes for you to move to SA or TA it's entirely possible you just lost an attack round trying to apply feint. And that's assuming you have SA or TA up to even use to apply the feint.

And do Abyssea Tonberries have items to steal? I haven't stolen any items from them yet.
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Ladyofhonor: 99THF/PLD/RUN
100+7 Alchemy
Zilart/CoP/ToAU complete.
Mandau 119
#147 Jun 18 2011 at 1:13 PM Rating: Decent
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SirEaglestrike wrote:
How is it not?... It's instant


For starters, because you can use it more than twice as often as AS.



Quote:
In the time it takes for you to move to SA or TA it's entirely possible you just lost an attack round trying to apply feint.


Position yourself correctly to beging with?

Quote:
And that's assuming you have SA or TA up to even use to apply the feint.


SA/TA are nice for landing it but also not really needed. A few choice pieces of gear for an acc swap to land feint should be sufficient for sigh. It's not like we have a shortage of very strong acc pieces when the situation arises.

Quote:
And do Abyssea Tonberries have items to steal? I haven't stolen any items from them yet.


They might not. I know they have despoilable items but I don't think I've ever tried to steal anything from them using "steal"
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