Of Triplus and TwilightFollow

Since brd can use twilight dagger, I'm totally getting one.
brd/dnc is so awesome in abyssea

I am most interested in the TP drain if it STEALS tp from a mob. I am just imagining the complete awesomeness of having high Agi (reducing TP gain by ~30-50%ish depneding) and then TAKING what little TP i give to them. It will slow down mob TP in solo situations by MASSIVE ammounts.

Also, I just realized, we got Subtle Blow III at 90thf/nin45 from /nin!!

Hypothetical ballpark numbers: (if I understand the subtle blow/Agi dichotomy correctly)
Kila+2/Twighlight=190/190
33% DW (/nin+suppa+Mirke OR boomerang) could go up to 36 but eh. Frees up body slot if you have the boomerang.
30% SubBlow (/nin+raja. Nothing fancy)
Test at 30% from agi and 50% cap since we dont have exact agi=stp numbers yet.
Mob gets TP+3 (i coulda sworn it used to be +2, but wiki says +3 /shrug).

190/190 with 33% DW=4.5 tp/hit or 9/round.
Mob TP=4.5+3=7.5/hit or 15/round.
30% SB=5.2/round or 10.4/round
30%SB+30%Agi=3.6/round or 7.2/round
30%SB+50%Agi=2.6/round or 5.2/round

OK. So with a simple raja+brutal 6 stp, we get 4.7 tp/hit, 9.4/round while a mob gets 7.2 or 5.2 a round depending on what agi numbers we use.

So, lets go with the 30% TP drain with avg of 8tp per proc. Alternating hands making it only go off every 6 hits.

Over 6 hits:

We get: 28.2
Mob get: 21.6 (30% agi)
Mob get: 15.6 (50% agi)

With the 8tp drain 1/6 hits:

We get: 36.2
Mob get: 13.6 (30% agi)
Mob get: 7.6 (50% agi)

THAT IS IMPRESSIVE. That would cut down 'overall' TP from mobs we solo (and dont get hit) by -38% if we get 30% SB from agi, and a WHOPPING -52% if we cap 50% SB from agi. This also takes OUR TP vs MOB TP ratio from great to awesome. Without the dagger, we get 1.3x more tp than we give at 30% agi. 1.8x more TP than we give capping 50% agi. These become 2.66x and 4.75x More TP tahn we give with that dagger assuming the 30% proc, 8% TP drain.

If these numbers are ANYWHERE close to the real TP drain numbers (and it actually steals TP like absorb TP, not just gives you free stuff like sambas) we could litterally do 2-5 WS before the mob could do ONE and this is with NO additional SB gear besides rajas.

For grinsies, if you ahve capped 50% SB and 50% from agi (75% total reduction), a mob only gets 1.8/hit. 3.6/round. That means mob gets 10.8 every 6 times you hit it. with a 1/6 drain proc, it gets 2.8tp while you get 36.2. You could WS (on avg) 12.92 times for every mobs ONE.

Nearly THIRTEEN WS BEFORE A MOB CAN USE ONE! HOLY sh*t!

Holy crap on a stick! I WANT THIS DAGGER! NOWZ!

Someone PLEASE test if it 'steals' mob TP or only gives you tp like drain samba only 'gives' you HP without hurting the mob. PLEASE!

I have 1.5mil cruor....and only need Raja+Altepa Boss and i can doo this!

Edit: I forgot to ADD the 8tp we steal to our own TP. It makes teh ratios even more obscene!

Edited, Dec 22nd 2010 11:52am by Banalaty

Drain Sambas don't work on undead, and those aren't true "drain" effects, so I don't think working/not working on undead is going to prove anything.

Also my bad. U cant proc addtl effect on successive d.a. /t.a. Hits can u? If so this weapon is rather like having 20 storetp to both hands in good gear and atma, not 30 like I initially said

WHM en-light from misery + auspice is also first hit only.

Got dagger and imediatelly wanted to do a tp drain test with this. I went thf/bst. And I would hit and charm an EP tiger. Hit->charm->pettp->leave->hit->charm->pettp->leave->hit ect ect.

Look what happend:
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a372/Breaze/twilightdagger-1.jpg

pet starts with 32% tp. I hit it twice one hit procs a drain 5tp effect. I check tp and it is 25% tp! But last time I checked 32 - 5 = 27 right? So now I am like "What the hell is going on here?" Lets try that again.

Pet at 25%tp I hit and HP drain procs. At this point the pet should gain tp right. Since I just hit it. But no. Pet is down to 19%tp. lol? Is this a bug? Lets try again.

Pet at 19%tp I hit it and MP drain procs now it is at 13%tp. So either this dagger has a perma drain tp effect which does not show in the log. Or this is a bug.

I know it is one test but dam this look very promising.

*edit*
The drain tp effect on the mob does not seem to proc each hit but it looks to be much higher then the drain tp effect you see in the log.

Edited, Dec 27th 2010 12:48am by Breaze

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

/dance!

(I also got access to BC on fri but been offline for holidays. So REALLY excited to go after this now!)

TP drain procced three times in my screenshots. On screenshot 1 my to went from 49% --> 48% (this was a resist, so it only drained 2 tp), and in screenshot 2 it procced two more times when my tp went from 56 --> 49 and again almost immediately after when it went from 50 --> 43%. I was KO'd shortly after. Furthermore the screenshots are slightly cropped but if you take a closer look you'll see there were only 16 attacks (I started with tp, and the cutoff is at 52% on the first/second screenie, so everything on screenshot 2 that occurs before 52% is already covered in screenie one).

That's a 3/16 tp drain proc rate which is 18.75%. But you can't give any type of credit to a sample size THAT small (seriously it's only 16 hits). There is a very good chance we're looking at 30% (TP), 35% (MP) and 35% (HP) drain. Random number generator is random but I started with 44 TP and 16 attack rounds later I was left with 43 TP. It completely negated any tp fed by the dagger while actually reducing my overall tp WITH a resist (had that resist not happened I would have been left with closer to 37 tp when all was done with). The twilight dagger is an awesome offhand weapon, and it's tp drain is not THAT rare. Remember, since it is a tp DRAIN if the mob has no tp then there is nothing to take. If you open a fight and your first hit procs a tp-drain then the only tp you could take would be 1 (the tp fed by the main hand before that) so that may also lead people to misjudge the tp drain effect.

Keeping in mind that this sample size is ridiculously small, the twilight knife has a lot of potential to shine in any and all solo situations.

Edited, Jan 8th 2011 10:29am by Melphina

Keep in mind there is also hidden tp-drain effect on this dagger. On one side there is the tp-drain effect which takes tp from the mob which adds to your own tp (shown in the log). On the other side there is the tp-drain effect which takes tp from the mob but does not add on your own tp and it does not show in the log.

Edited, Jan 9th 2011 7:29am by Breaze

about 5%?

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/17352/triplus-dagger-enhances-triple-attack-damage/

small sample size, no parser, etc.
take it for whatever it's worth.

I posted my test a few posts up.
You can check yourself with thf/bst and use: Hit->charm->pettp->leave->hit->charm->pettp->leave->hit ect ect. Or go in a player vs player event like balista.

How you want to use this dagger is up to you.

I use Vajra/twilight and I like the combo. When I have more time I should check the hidden and non-hidden tp-drain rate. Twilight is a rather common drop (10%-20%) from Shinryu after you proc blue. Put some time in it and you will get it np.

assuming no regain and that the mob needs tp to use a tp move, you are correct in that if it is sapping more tp per hit then it is feeding the mob, then it will never use a tp move.

However many mobs can use tp moves when ever, and have regain.

Woot! Just brewed shinryu as DNC90/NIN45. Only managed a red proc, but still got twilight knife and twilight belt and atma. No blue !! So I was not expecting anything for item drops. Brewed him about 4 days ago with no blue !! And got twilight cape. So they do drop even without procs. Same thing happened to me with charis necklace and auric dagger.

Lol I'm a 90 drg too, I think it's only slightly unfair, but atleast it still has swift belt, besides my drg af3+1 more than makes up for that DA and haste loss. The one I really wish could use it is pld. But I'm happy that my 90 dnc and 90 blu can use belt. That's 2/4 of my lvl 90's that can use it so I have no substantial complaints.

If you want to troll SAMs just remind them than MNK with Victory Smite is better than they are by a very wide margin.

Yes Fynlar is correct. I just redid my thf/bst test with and without twilight dagger. I did not realize pets lose tp that fast when you "leave" your pet. I assumed tp stayed the same as long as the pet did not depop. Thanks for pointing that out.

I also did a new twilight dagger test inside Brenner uncapped. I smacked a pld around. And there is no hidden tp-drain effect on twilight dagger. The only tp you drain is when it shows in the log.

Something new I saw with twilight dagger is that when you hit for 0 you will continue to drain tp and mp but you wont drain hp.

I'm not sure what the distribution is exactly but I've been offhanding the dagger for awhile now and it SEEMS to favor HP/MP. Maybe it's because I don't care about MP/HP as much as I do TP.

Also, I haven't figured out why sometimes it's low single digits and why others it jumps up to double digits. Obvious option would be a light based mob but I haven't noticed that trend.