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Critical Attack Bonus II?Follow

#1 Oct 09 2010 at 9:21 AM Rating: Good
30 posts
While farming onions today after hitting L85 and using Ungur Boomerang on Goblin Thugs, I noticed my critical ranged attacks dealing 210 damage every time. Normal ranged attacks were 156 damage.

If we assume Critical Attack Bonus I is 5% more damage on critical hits, I should only be getting 202 damage on criticals. (Assuming again that Critical Attack Bonus functions by raising the 1.25 modifier on critical hits to a 1.30 for ranged attacks.)

If we extend this bonus to 1.35 (consistent with a +10% bonus) instead, multiplying it with 156 damage that I was consistently getting, the result is 210 damage. Is there anyone who knows more about the damage formula that can check my work and either confirm or deny the possibility of a second rank of this trait already being given to Thief?

Relevant gear/stats at the time:
Ungur Boomerang (Damage 30)
STR: 68

Again, targets were Goblin Thugs, so I am assuming fstr/attack are both capped.

Edited, Oct 9th 2010 11:21am by CriticalThreat
#2 Oct 11 2010 at 9:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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370 posts
Critical hit damage is calculated differently for ranged attacks. It has a lower damage boost compared to melee crits, but is uncapped.
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Does anyone actually have this knife yet? What does "Increase Critical Hit Dammage" do?


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i dont have the dagger, but i'm pretty sure it increaes the damage of your critical hits


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Genius!
#3 Oct 11 2010 at 12:31 PM Rating: Good
30 posts
double

Edited, Oct 11th 2010 2:37pm by CriticalThreat
#4 Oct 11 2010 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
30 posts
So ranged attacks are being affected by Critical Attack bonus to a larger degree than melee attacks?

According to wiki, a ranged attack gets a 25% damage bonus when it scores a critical hit. Also according to wiki, Critical Attack Bonus is +5% damage.

The 156 damage I had been getting should become 195 during a critical hit without any Critical Attack bonus traits.

If Critical attack bonus works by extending that multiplier to 30% (falling in line with a +5% bonus according to wiki), 156 damage should become 202. If it works by multiplying the critical hit damage by 1.05, it should instead become 204. However, my critical hits were doing 210 damage.

Using a critical hit multiplier of 35% instead of 25% (base multiplier + 5% for assumed Critical Attack Bonus I + 5% for assumed Critical Attack Bonus II), 156 damage becomes 210, which are the results I had been getting.

The only way I can see this happening (the critical hit being outside the maximum damage allowed by simply a 5% bonus, multiplicative or additive), is if the bonus is actually 10% instead of 5%, there is a second tier giving an additional 5%, or ranged attacks are somehow doubling the effect of the standard Critical Hit Bonus trait.
#5 Oct 11 2010 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
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Afraid your mixing up a couple things. applying the 5% boost in the wrong place. It is tacked on after EVERYTHING more like piercing 25% damage boost on birds. So in this case:

Damage:156
Crit damage:195 (+25%)

THEN add 5% crit bonus:
195*1.05=204.75

Thats how you get your 205 damage per crit. Still just 5% boost for now.

Edit: thought you 25. That is a little weird indeed. to get 210 you would need a ~7.6% boost. A 7.5% boost would be 209.625. 8% boost would be 210.6. I am not sure if damage rounds up or down (i suspect only down as thats how most stuff is in this game). But if this is the case, we could be looking at a crit boost from 5%>7.5/8%. Need to go verify this at some point to make sure, but if we got a nice boost then yay us :P

Working lots of extra hours this week, but ill see if i can find a couple min to boomerang stuff with my drg and thf to check. (anyone else is welcome to validate the OP in the interim :P)

Edited, Oct 11th 2010 4:33pm by Banalaty
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#6 Oct 11 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Good
30 posts
So my critical hits using Ungur should not do more than 204 damage on things that are piercing neutral? I'm getting 210 every time.
#7 Oct 11 2010 at 3:04 PM Rating: Decent
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894 posts
Probably better to test it using a Dagger than a RNG(Random Number Generator) attack /shrug
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#8 Oct 11 2010 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good
30 posts
Ranged attacks are very consistent damage once you have a high enough attack value. I am, however, working on some more data samples, using varying jobs (keeping fSTR capped in each example, by isolating targets to the same low level monsters).

I'll be using a Ninja (No Critical Attack Bonus trait), a Dancer (Critical Attack Bonus I), and Thief (To test if Critical Attack Bonus II even exists). Just waiting on a few friends to log on and get un-busy so we can go throw stuff at things.

All 3 jobs will be using the same ranged weapon (Chakram, DMG:16) in an effort to keep the test as controlled as possible.
#9 Oct 14 2010 at 3:11 AM Rating: Good
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Banalty wrote:
Afraid your mixing up a couple things. applying the 5% boost in the wrong place. It is tacked on after EVERYTHING more like piercing 25% damage boost on birds. So in this case:
Are you 100% sure that it works this way? I just wasn't very sure myself. I didn't even know that ranged crits had an extra boost multiplier to them.
I wouldn't be surprised if we have 10% (now) instead of 5%. Pretty nice boost as well if ya ask me.

Edited, Oct 14th 2010 9:12am by Shamaya
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#10 Oct 14 2010 at 5:40 AM Rating: Good
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2,270 posts
im not terribly sure. Just going by lolwiki. At some point ill just go shoot my ziskas or something with both rng and thf and see what the difference is. I dont trust wiki enough to go purely on that.
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#11 Oct 14 2010 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
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well i just went out and did a quick test.

I was getting the same 210 damage with ungur that CriticalThreat showed us.

Now the intereting part: i synced to 80 with a friend and the critical damage dropped to 204. Then just for the sake of it i synced to 75, and the damage dropped to 195.

So yeah imo we do have a new tier there. But it's probably not 5%, i'm thinking it's something around 3%.

I don't think it works with the bonus being added straight to the standard critical hit multiplier like CriticalThreat proposed. If it did, the 80 sync would have shown around 202 damage (156 x 1.3 = 202.8), and it was a plain 204. 204 really does seem to come from 156 x 1.25 x 1.05 (204.75).

Since it's not added straight to the crit multiplier. The only way i could justify the increase in damage is from a lower second tier of the trait. If it was a full 10% we would be seeing 214 damage (156 x 1.25 x 1.1 = 214.5), but we see 210 damage.
#12 Oct 14 2010 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
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2,270 posts
Great info! Thanks for testing. (Also confirms how the /RA crits work). I am assuming it rounds down in which the boost would (in theory) be 5% tier 1, 8% tier 2. If it rounds up (seems unlikely), it could be 7.5% which makes more sense from the tiered perspective (T1=5, T2=7.5, T3-10% etc) but that would require rounding up which SE never really does /shrug. But i would like to check with melee attacks to corroborate then numbers with /ra.

either way, we DO know that we get T2. How that works exactly were not quite there yet.
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Aanalaty, Mithra of San d'Oria
99Thf/99Drg/99Rng/95Pld/Secret Job 92
Bonecraft-100+3 7/29/08
Lu Shangs-5/28/08
Twashtar-90
Ryunohige-75: 1/7/2012
Mandau-75: 3/9/2012

Maat-1/1 Thf Meleed (pansies steal)
Some of mah gearz: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Lakshmi/Aanalaty#item-sets
Join 'People Against The Heart Snatcher' and help put Thfs on the right P.A.T.H.S. today!
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