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DW Tier at 83?Follow

#1 Sep 09 2010 at 2:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Edit: Yeah Its DW I

Edited, Sep 15th 2010 11:37am by ThiefKiller
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#2 Sep 09 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dont you DARE get my hopes up! Im assuming its some idiot trying to provoke the poor thfs. Im not even going to entertain the possibility that its true until there is official posted data for fear of somehow being even more letdown by lolDW.

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 4:34pm by Banalaty
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#3 Sep 09 2010 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
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Banalaty wrote:
Dont you DARE get my hopes up! Im assuming its some idiot trying to provoke the poor thfs. Im not even going to consider that its true until there is official posted data for fear of somehow being even more letdown by lolDW.


MY first thought was BS, but I guess the hope stupid is still alive in me somewhere.
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#4 Sep 09 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
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well im almost lvl 83 so ill see how much TP i get per hit with no STP on and no extra DW. i play on 360 so thats the best i can do XD
#5 Sep 09 2010 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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Remaining skeptical yet not giving up (small) hope too...time will tell.
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#6 Sep 09 2010 at 3:56 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm levelling THF right now with LB7 done. If nobody else has confirm/deny'd it by the time I'm out of this Abyssea party and 83+, I will do so.
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#7 Sep 09 2010 at 4:17 PM Rating: Decent
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i did this more then once with no stp

daggers 201 aruic
211 atheme

took 22 hits to get enough to ws.





Edited, Sep 9th 2010 8:53pm by Thfwarrior
#8 Sep 09 2010 at 4:23 PM Rating: Good
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All you have to do is get DW, go smack a rabbit 10 times (1 hitx10) preferably with no STP on for simplicity. That will tell you EXACTLY how much tp/hit you get per swing. If you dont know how to figure what tier DW you have, just post here and one of use can tell you.
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Join 'People Against The Heart Snatcher' and help put Thfs on the right P.A.T.H.S. today!
#9 Sep 09 2010 at 4:48 PM Rating: Decent
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ok then ill do that but im sure its less then 5 per hit but im in a abyssea pt atm.
#10 Sep 09 2010 at 5:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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THF/WAR with one delay 201 dagger (Peeler) was this:

5, 11, 16, 22, 27, 33, 38, 44, 49, 55 so 5.5 TP per strike.

Dual wield at 83 THF/WAR yields 5 TP on the dot each swing, so 10% reduction.

5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50.

DW1 is 10% reduction, so DW1 at 83. Wiki is just stupid.

EDIT: With DW I used peeler and X's knife, both 201 delay daggers. No hits were gotten on me during testing, all one shots.

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 7:40pm by ElvaanTHF
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#11 Sep 09 2010 at 5:41 PM Rating: Good
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Can do it in Abyssea as well. Just reset TP (take off weapon and put it back on), then count out 10 hits and record your TP. As long as you didn't get hit in the meantime, it should be exact. Obviously keep all Store TP gear off for the duration.
#12 Sep 09 2010 at 8:03 PM Rating: Good
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Now just need /nin tests @83 as well as non /nin tests @ 84 and 85...only then will my hopes finally be completely crushed!



>.>
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#13 Sep 09 2010 at 8:55 PM Rating: Decent
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ok i tested in south gusta and i did it with kila's /war lvl 85 when i had 1 dagger i got 5 tp per when i had 2 kila i hit for 4
#14 Sep 09 2010 at 9:43 PM Rating: Decent
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It's Dual Wield 1.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e56/RaenRyong/FFXI/Testing.png

My gear at the time of the test.

Total Delay: 396
DW (15%): 168.3 => 4.9 [if native DW = DW1]
DW (20%): 158.4 => 4.8 [if native DW = DW2]

4
9
14
19
24
29
34
39
44
49

Confirming native DW = DW1. Auric Dagger might not be exactly 5%, you cry! Okay, I considered this, and repeated using Thief Knife/that same Dakini.

Total Delay: 389
DW (10%): 175.05 => 4.9 [if native DW = DW1]
DW (15%): 165.325 => 4.8 [if native DW = DW2]

4
9
14
19
24
29
34
39
44
49

Again, the tests showed it was DW1. At no point was I hit (mobs outside Windy, all oneshotted).

Edited, Sep 9th 2010 11:44pm by RaenRyong
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#15 Sep 10 2010 at 12:01 AM Rating: Decent
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ThiefKiller wrote:
Wiki is listing DW II at 83. Can anyone verify this?


Square Enix wrote:

HAY GUYS NOW U CAN SUB /WAR AT EVENTS WITHOUT HAVING TO MAIN THIEF'S KNIFE



I can picture them looking at system logs and scratching their heads wondering why thieves are still subbing ninja now that they have native DW1.
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#16 Sep 10 2010 at 5:51 AM Rating: Decent
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By the way, even with DW1 THF/WAR > THF/NIN for pure damage at 85.

5% DW assuming you have Auric Dagger/Suppanomimi is a damage increase of 75/70 = 7.14% to DoT and a lesser amount to WS frequency.

Average hits per round with THF/NIN (per hand) on a TA/DA neutral weapon is 85.5/5/9.5 for an average of 1.24. 10% DA changes this to 76.5/15/8.5, for an average of 1.32. Since we are Dualwielding, average per round on /nin is 2.48 and /war is 2.64: an increase of (2.64 - 2.48)/2.48 = 6.45% to both DoT and WS frequency. The increase to WS damage is harder to calculate. Basically this DA alone now beats the 5% Dual Wield, before you think about Berserk~

(if you are using OaT/Oa3x the DA alone doesn't beat it but Berserk will)
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#17 Sep 10 2010 at 6:57 AM Rating: Good
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I can confirm it's dual wield 1. If a level 83 thf/war with kila/kila using no sTP gear had dual wield I they would get 4.9 tp per hit, and if they had dual wield II they would get 4.8 tp per hit. I ran out to saru as level 84 thief/war with just 2 kila's and no other gear and hit ten mobs once (insta KO). I never got hit and I was left with 49 tp, therefore there is no question about it. It's dual wield one, as we knew it would be.

Now for some more thoughts. I leveled to 84 in an abyssea-misereaux exp alliance last night at the Coastal Colibri camp and I did it using thief/war. As I was expecting, with an abyssean exp alliance thief/war was relatively safe. I only died once and that was when I was getting sloppy after a few hours before I logged for bed (tired). Abyssean exp alliances get temp item restores and have so many melees/mages that you have more restoring power than you can shake ten sticks at, so if I'm playing abyssea exp ally I may try thief/war for a bit. I don't think I'd feel confident using /war outside abyssea though because I was only safe in my exp ally because we had army of healers nearby. I took a lot of cure bombing and that wouldn't have been possible without the influx of temp items and restore boxes. Thief/war seems to work pretty decent inside abyssea, but everywhere else I think I'd stick with /nin. At least for now.

Edited, Sep 10th 2010 12:46pm by Melphina
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#18 Sep 10 2010 at 8:55 AM Rating: Decent
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RaenRyong wrote:
By the way, even with DW1 THF/WAR > THF/NIN for pure damage at 85.


In pure damage output, probably.

But I have serious doubts that it will be viable a lot of the time. I can see it maybe for tanked fights but I have only been in one abyssea alliance maybe where I could have lived without seriously holding back.

If mobs are dying fast enough its not an issue. THF/WAR just has no defense....nothing to mitigate damage. One of the bigger draws for /nin for me has always been the ability to go balls to the wall whether you are tanking the whole time or not.

You really have to worry about pulling hate as /war which to me seems like it would require you to cater your performance to it too much for it not to be a hinderance to your overall output.
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#19TheHolyDragoonSeraphus, Posted: Sep 10 2010 at 9:15 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) What's the big deal anyway, seriously THF will get DW III at 90 with /NIN45. Even if NIN had native DW III or IV they'd still sub NIN for shadows anyway so really, what's the big deal?
#20 Sep 10 2010 at 9:17 AM Rating: Good
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TheHolyDragoonSeraphus wrote:
Even if NIN had native DW III or IV they'd still sub NIN for shadows anyway so really, what's the big deal?


huh?
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#21 Sep 10 2010 at 9:23 AM Rating: Good
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I haven't seen it bluntly stated, but we still get /Nin DW 2 at 83 right?
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#22 Sep 10 2010 at 10:05 AM Rating: Decent
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yea /nin we get DW2
#23 Sep 10 2010 at 10:14 AM Rating: Good
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Yes. As I'd proven in one of the myriad whine threads, a main trait weaker than what a sub offers does not overtake the sub. Defense Bonus comparisons show WAR/SAM (Def 1) against WAR/PLD (Def 2 from /PLD). If you wanna stay skeptical, then I'm sure Mel could confirm. Been out of town since Wednesday night so haven't been able to work on the limit quest or even level. But I'm sure SE would make an exception here just to **** with THF more, right?
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#24 Sep 10 2010 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Who knows what the progression will be, could get dw3 @95, maybe even 4 at 99. Its something for times i sub something else (which is mostly just /drk for stuff i stun these days).

Any word on if crit damage trait got any stronger?
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#25 Sep 10 2010 at 10:44 PM Rating: Good
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ThiefKiller wrote:
RaenRyong wrote:
By the way, even with DW1 THF/WAR > THF/NIN for pure damage at 85.


In pure damage output, probably.

But I have serious doubts that it will be viable a lot of the time. I can see it maybe for tanked fights but I have only been in one abyssea alliance maybe where I could have lived without seriously holding back.

If mobs are dying fast enough its not an issue. THF/WAR just has no defense....nothing to mitigate damage. One of the bigger draws for /nin for me has always been the ability to go balls to the wall whether you are tanking the whole time or not.

You really have to worry about pulling hate as /war which to me seems like it would require you to cater your performance to it too much for it not to be a hinderance to your overall output.


So I just had my first full abyssea alliance as THF/WAR (low 84 to 85 + capped merits.)

It was definately...different for me. I have never been a big /war fan. Your mages will need to cure you. WHM/SCH was able to keep me with stoneskin up a lot of the time though. I heard "WTF are you doing THF/WAR" No no, dear alliance, I will not be pulling for you today mwah ha ha!" But I found that after they saw my first SADE (just SADE...well with multi procs from god I assume) that topped 3200 damage (on vultures in Miseraux Coast...yes they were IT ones), they were not complaining at all about having to support me.

And I find that as we get buffed, so do our support. With good mages and DD's its a lot more than viable than I thought it would be for me. You will definately NEED some kind of Osh*t set for max evasion or -PD% or something.

But I really have to say...I didn't hate it at all. It's damage was superior to /nin, no question. If you are going into a party where you aren't sure there will be top notch DD's to take hate back from you, I'd still /nin becuase death awaits you.

But holy sh*t man. Constant temp items + stat boosts + zerk + etc.....is pretty crazy. My attack was mid 800's most of the time without any BRD or COR buffs and I was outparsing all the DD's that were getting them.

I would say, that if SE gave us something in the way of a native ability to defend ourselves (like third eye or seigan or something)....THF/WAR would be OP.


Edited, Sep 11th 2010 12:53am by ThiefKiller
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#26 Sep 10 2010 at 11:06 PM Rating: Default
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How did you do a DE on vultures in m. coast while in abyssea?
And you actually parsed all the dd and a thf was on top with no buffs? And other dd were being buffed? I think something is amiss.
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