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#1 Jun 26 2010 at 12:58 AM Rating: Sub-Default
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twashtar
DMG 42 Delay 176


Vs

Kila

DMG 38 Delay 190
Str + 6 Attack + 16

After Read a Topic about 38 DMG dagger And this.


What Banalaty said is true. EVERY swing you make has a +/- 0.4 Pdif attatched to it. Now let's say your base damage is 90 on a weaponskill that swings 6 times... like dancing edge, and your attack is capped at 2.0.

90 x 2 == 180 <----- Average damage per hit
90 x 2.4 == 216 <---- Maximum damage per hit
90 x 1.6 == 144 <--- Minimum damage per hit

144 x 6 == 864 <---- this is the theoretical minuim damage you will see with 6 "worst" rolls
216 x 6 == 1296 <--- This is the theoretical maximum damage you will see with 6 perfect rolls
180 x 6 == 1080 <---- This is the mean, or average weaponskill.

This is a variance of 432 points of damage. The average weaponskill will be in the ballpark of 1080, but with identical tp returns you can weaponskill once and hit 1150+ and do it the next time and get only 950. This is how dancing edge works, trust me I know. I've farmed birds outside whitegate many times and my own full return dancing edges work just like this. No food, no acid bolts, normal dagger combos (blau/sirocco or fane/blau). This is the damage formula. Your "testing" tells us nothing because you used a mob that can withstand a full tp return of 6 swings on a weaponskill with inherently high base damage and a very large variance of per hit damage.

By the way, damage + 5 == a maximum of 30 base damage across 6 swings.

30 x 2.4 == 72 <--- This is the greatest variance 5 base damage can give with 6 perfect rolls on dancing edge. Aside from the fact that perfect rolls never happen 6 times in a row, this is a very small fraction of the original spread and worthless for your tests.


Thanks MELPHINA and BANALATY for their Knowlege

The question is. Really this new weapon will be better, than a kila?

The Weapon Skill variation is a LOT. 4 more base dmg, little less delay will beat 16 attack and 6 str.

For get the Twashtar Is a titanic way. You need lots of help or even a ls for get it. And the Kila is a soleable Dagger. Maybe in 10 - 15 days with 2 - 3 hours working you can get that.

I will work first on the Kila then on the Twashtar. But in my opinion and a Tp burn party, dynamis, limbus, nyzul and einjerhar. The kila will be ahead because 16 attack and 6 str is awesome ^^ is like a mini mandau.

If did come ask here. Is because i dont want work for a weapon will be inferior, than the soleable one.

Edited, Jun 26th 2010 2:58am by DaNTeiL
#2 Jun 26 2010 at 1:15 AM Rating: Default
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Square Enix wrote:
Future version updates will allow players to upgrade Empyrean Weapons through Trial of the Magians and other systems
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#3 Jun 26 2010 at 1:19 AM Rating: Default
24 posts
Lobivopis wrote:
Square Enix wrote:
Future version updates will allow players to upgrade Empyrean Weapons through Trial of the Magians and other systems


Ah ok Thanks ^^ Well then i will have get the Twashtar after all.
#4 Jun 26 2010 at 2:44 AM Rating: Good
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That's a good analysis of the Twashtar on DE. Could you do the same for Kila too?
And then after comparing WS numbers, you could also try comparing DoT and TP gain.
I'm having the same problem right now in choosing an offhand. ;/
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#5 Jun 26 2010 at 2:59 AM Rating: Good
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Lobivopis wrote:
Square Enix wrote:
Future version updates will allow players to upgrade Empyrean Weapons through Trial of the Magians and other systems


You can't really use that sentence as a basis of choosing at the moment. Kila will be upgradable as well and there's no telling what the stats will increase to on either.

With that said, I already have kila to hold me over until I get to the crazy requirements for a twashtar, whichever comes out ahead at the end of the level cap raises will be the one I choose.
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#6 Jun 26 2010 at 4:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Shamaya wrote:
That's a good analysis of the Twashtar on DE. Could you do the same for Kila too?
And then after comparing WS numbers, you could also try comparing DoT and TP gain.
I'm having the same problem right now in choosing an offhand. ;/


Hello ^^ I taked all the information from this topic. Melphina and banalaty was analising the 38 Dmg Dagger
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?fjob=10&mid=12702511852538882&page=1

I think Mandau Full finished from trial magian

Mandau 43 DMG 25 attack / Blau Dolch vs Mandau 43 DMG 25 attack / Kila 38 DMG 16 attack. 6 str

If is acu capped scenario. It will be very close duel. I go for the Mandau/Kila.

5 More base damage, 6 str, 3 attack more. And always have the 38 dmg no matter how many tp we have.

If Twashtar in a future have stats bonus. Well mandau/Twashtar with some attack or OAT. It can be the best combo in the game ^^.

#7 Jun 26 2010 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
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I do wish we at least had some clue as to what would be upgraded in the future. I have been working hard on OAT weapons exclusively and completely ignored the "high damnage" path that now leads to empyrean weapons. So now im starting over. Next update we could be starting all over again for something else. But Im hoping that the empyrean weapons will stay top dob because of the exclusive focus with the expansions, the new/unique models, and SE said something about them bein the "next relic type weapons" (paraphrased). Im guessing you will need all 3 expansions and do a LOT of work for the entire liine of trials that may take many months to complete minimum, but end up with a weapon in the same ballpark as relics. The damage/delay of these are already 1 step behind relics.

Im HOPING if i commit to Twash it will pay off. So for now doing Twash/Parazonium(OAT) because Ive been working on athame already anyway..

As for the OP, I applaud you. It is a nice start looking at the weapons. We just need to take it to the next level by bringing in more daggers to compare and extend it to the whole spectrum of thf (Melee/SATA aspects etc).

I recently hit 80 on thf and Drg, so maybe i can take a little while to soak all this new data in while i camp Black triple stars for Twashtar :P

(Also.....we need MOAR EVIS TESTS! I wanna get that crit rate pinned down so we can figure out how much our new crit damage trait affects evis averages)
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#8 Jun 26 2010 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
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Shamaya he didn't do any analyzing of anything at all. 90% of the OP is a blatent copy/paste of what banalaty and I wrote in this thread.

The numbers in the OP were just random numbers I pulled out of my head to emphasize how the damage formula works in an unrelated topic. They don't have any bearing on anything. I don't even know what the purpose of that OP is, but it doesn't have anything at all to do with the daggers being compared in the topic. Furthermore the thunder kiala is better than the flame kiala for most scenarios.

Thunder Kiala == 38 damage, 190 delay, 6 dexterity and 12 accuracy (combined 15 accuracy)

Flame Kiala == 38 damage, 190 delay, 6 strength and 16 attack (19 attack combined)

Would you trade 6 dex/19 attack for 6 str/15 accuracy? I know I wouldn't.


That whole OP is nothing more than blatent word for word plagiarism of the stuff Banalaty and I wrote in a thread unrelated to the daggers in the title. Twaster and Kiala have no relevance in those numbers whatsoever. In fact there isn't any thought in them at all. Click the thread I just linked to and see for yourself what's going on. It doesn't actually TELL us anything except what the OP wrote on the last few lines at the very bottom, IE his personal opinion that the kiala is a mini Mandau. The Op clearly has no understanding of dagger comparisons as well because the delay and base damage difference of 42/176 versus 38/190 is a huge factor alone. I don't know what the point of the OP is but I'm kind of mad it's worded in the way it is.

Edited, Jun 26th 2010 1:50pm by Melphina
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#9 Jun 26 2010 at 3:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Mistress Melphina wrote:
Shamaya he didn't do any analyzing of anything at all. 90% of the OP is a blatent copy/paste of what banalaty and I wrote in this thread.

The numbers in the OP were just random numbers I pulled out of my head to emphasize how the damage formula works in an unrelated topic. They don't have any bearing on anything. I don't even know what the purpose of that OP is, but it doesn't have anything at all to do with the daggers being compared in the topic. Furthermore the thunder kiala is better than the flame kiala for most scenarios.

That whole OP is nothing more than blatent word for word plagiarism of the stuff Banalaty and I wrote in a thread unrelated to the daggers in the title. Twaster and Kiala have no relevance in those numbers whatsoever. In fact there isn't any thought in them at all. Click the thread I just linked to and see for yourself what's going on. It doesn't actually TELL us anything except what the OP wrote on the last few lines at the very bottom, IE his personal opinion that the kiala is a mini Mandau. The Op clearly has no understanding of dagger comparisons as well because the delay and base damage difference of 42/176 versus 38/190 is a huge factor alone. I don't know what the point of the OP is but I'm kind of mad it's worded in the way it is.

Edited, Jun 26th 2010 1:50pm by Melphina



In my first Topic, I did say Thanks Melphina and Banalaty For their Knowlege. And my point Was get 1 of your analisis for see the WS Damage variation

After shamaya come and post. Few hours later

I come and make another post with the Link of your topic. And did say "I did take all information from these topic".


What did you say about acu dagger > attack dagger.

That depends on the thief will use that.

If is a dusk, rappare harness thief. with 345 acu. Then yes the acu dagger is better. With double acu dagger, the dusk gear thief will have the oportunity eat yellow curry bun and increase the DPS in a dramatic way

if is a hommam/ACP. The thief will have 400 - 410 accuracy without problems, and that thief will do more damage, using the kila with 19 attack and 6 str ^^

Right now with lv 80. The enemies and camps are under control with 400 acu and marinara pizza. "When square raise the lv and they add enemies lv 95 - 105 - 110. We will have check again everything for see which are the new caps in acu.

For end this topic. I just came for ask about 2 daggers. Because i think is a good idea start work on them early. I did not came here for steal your analisis. I always was giving you the credit and banalaty even i did post the link on my second post.
#10 Jun 26 2010 at 9:12 PM Rating: Good
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If anything, the topic does make me wonder about the "golden standard" for math comparisons in the future. Greater pink birdie has been used for years now.
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#11 Jun 26 2010 at 9:14 PM Rating: Good
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DaNTeiL I apologize if I spoke harshly earlier. I wrote that response shortly before I had to leave for work. When I read the title of this thread I was expecting to see an analysis of the twaster versus the kila's various strong points. Instead I read the opening which began with what appeared to be an opening statement to a twaster versus kiala comparison followed immediately by a cut and paste of something I wrote in another thread. The information posted was an explanation on the way the various +/- 0.4 pDIF acts upon every hit which I wrote in a topic where that particular OP claimed the damage +5 on Kartika did not apply to weaponskills.

Now, it's obvious you don't speak english very well. I'm not going to hold that against you and I'm not upset. However you cited my words very poorly and you never linked to the source until five posts down where you wrote this

Quote:
Hello ^^ I taked all the information from this topic. Melphina and banalaty was analising the 38 Dmg Dagger
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?fjob=10&mid=12702511852538882&page=1


I bolded that part because in your OP you did not mention that. It's poor citation of a reference, and unfortunately in this case the reference made is irrelevant to a discussion of twaster versus kiala. Now had you wrote something like this

------------------------------------
Twaster

Strong Points:
It has a VERY POWERFUL base DoT rating. It has a huge base damage and low delay.
Weak Points: It lacks any secondary modifiers or bonus stats

Flame Kiala

Strong Points: It has a combined effect of fSTR + 1.5 and 19 attack (approximately 6-7% increase in average pDIF)
Weak Points: With lower base damage and higher delay and no accuracy increase it may or may not be better than alternatives pending other factors such as haste and accuracy

Thunder Kiala

Strong Points:
6 dex affects sneak attack and weaponskill secondary mods and a combined 15 accuracy is also 7.5% hitrate increase
Weak Points: If your accuracy is capped the DoT rating is still lower than alternatives
----------------------------------------------

Now, THAT is a comparison of the twaster versus the kialas. Unfortunately there is no easy way to math this. There are too many potential variances. I will be choosing to dual wield TWO thunder Kiala's personally when I get the opportunity. The combined effect of 30 accuracy and 12 dexterity mods with a good DoT rating is very attractive to me and my playtime is insufficient to persue the twaster because of my work schedule. This is MY preference. Others will have their own opinions. But please don't go copying large chunks of other peoples work and posting it in your op like that without even linking to the source. That's poor citation and can be considered plagarism. That was why I was upset. And I think justifiably so.

Edited, Jun 26th 2010 11:21pm by Melphina
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#12 Jun 26 2010 at 9:28 PM Rating: Good
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Mistress Melphina wrote:

Now, it's obvious you don't speak english very well. I'm not going to hold that against you and I'm not upset. However you cited my words very poorly and you never linked to the source until five posts down where you wrote this

Quote:
Hello ^^ I taked all the information from this topic. Melphina and banalaty was analising the 38 Dmg Dagger
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?fjob=10&mid=12702511852538882&page=1


I bolded that part because in your OP you did not mention that. It's poor citation of a reference, and unfortunately in this case the reference made is irrelevant to a discussion of twaster versus kiala. Now had you wrote something like this

Not to defend him because you're right, but I was able to decipher right away from this OP he had taken it from another source, and I hadn't yet read the sources.
DaNTeiL wrote:
After Read a Topic about 38 DMG dagger And this.


What Banalaty said is true.
...

Thanks MELPHINA and BANALATY for their Knowlege

The question is. Really this new weapon will be better, than a kila?
Seemed to me more like he didn't know how to do quote tags, and yes, he should have linked it, but the obvious change in grammar and speech style as well as him starting off saying stuff that didn't make sense unless you read the other topic he was referring to made it stand out to me anyway.

Still, DaNTeiL, take this as a lesson to always Link to another topic. You can quote within the same, but if trying to quote from another topic, you need to make sure it's linked. Please also read here if you need help on how to use tags like links, quotes, etc.
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#13 Jun 26 2010 at 11:10 PM Rating: Decent
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All this crap aside, just focusing on the comparison of the attack/str dakini and twashtar, idk about anyone else but i'd take the twashtar hands down. The Dmg/Dly is just too good.

I will say though, I'm confused by the "Acc Dakini > Att Dakini". Not because it's incorrect, because it isn't, it's right, but because of the "Noodles, we think you think you need too much acc". As I said in the topic I was looking at 420ish after pizza, which was generally met with "That's too much", and yet people would choose the Accuracy trial dagger.

Is this just because you really want to eat meat..? Because I'd rather not sacrifice better DoT options (such as a better DPS dagger (EG Twashtar)) for the reletively small amount of Attack you gain from meat over pizza+1.
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#14 Jun 27 2010 at 12:01 AM Rating: Good
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Im with noodles on this. For those of use with good acc sets and the advent of pizza, I cant imagine 2x acc dakini holding a candle to Twashtar/Parzonium (OAT). The DPS, TP gain AND WS damage of Twash/Para is OBSCENE over all others. It wins by a wide margin in every category. Acc can be found elsewhere. Base damage, speed, and OAT cant. Pizza haste builds are already long proven superior to more acc oriented gear+meat. (sans colibri eating food meat build which are pretty much moot at this point)

Im still putting my gil all in on Twash/Para for the new premier dagger set.

Edit: Also something we dont talk about much. There will be new content designed for higher levels where acc is needed as usual. However people will STILL be doing current content for a LONG time to chase some of the older but still good gear. This stuff wont need acc at all. Ive already done events this week as 80 thf and 80 drg. **** today I went thf to Yilbegan. I needed only sushi OR an acc roll/song. Just one source of Racc boost and i was shooting yilbegan with Xbow and HITTING it at about 85-90 (eyeballed) hit rate with C+ skill on a hardcore HNM. And doing damage at that.

A VAST amount of the game will not need any acc at all in the future. Salvage/VNM/ZNM/Sky/Sea/Dynamis/limbus/virtually every mob currently in the game until now. Twash/Para is the OBVIOUS winner for all of this content. Pizza, new gear, 2min feint and all the other sources of acc up or eva down effects i cant vouch for dakinis as the superior weapons. They become situational at this stage of the game with SO MUCH content without acc issues and the rest covered by food/buffs/feint etc.

My 2c.

Edited, Jun 27th 2010 2:09am by Banalaty

Edited, Jun 27th 2010 2:11am by Banalaty
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#15 Jun 27 2010 at 12:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Even Auric Dagger with a best case scenario of DW+5 isn't better than Twashtar offhand with Mandau.


DMG:39 Delay:201
Subtle Blow+10 Enhances
Dual Wield effect
Lvl 80 THF DNC

Assuming the best case scenario of DW+5% Mandau/Auric is 263 combined delay and Mandau/Twashtar is 264.


If Auric has higher than DW+5 then that changes but I really can't imagine that being the case.

Edited, Jun 27th 2010 3:31am by Lobivopis
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#16 Jun 27 2010 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I will say though, I'm confused by the "Acc Dakini > Att Dakini". Not because it's incorrect, because it isn't, it's right, but because of the "Noodles, we think you think you need too much acc". As I said in the topic I was looking at 420ish after pizza, which was generally met with "That's too much", and yet people would choose the Accuracy trial dagger.


The game is currently at a point where the old mobs have become really easy and the new content is still pretty unexplored. Banalaty has been speaking correctly that a meat build sacrifices too much haste gear for accuracy gear to make it stronger than a hybrid pizza build. However he's also right when he says this

Quote:
For those of use with good acc sets and the advent of pizza, I cant imagine 2x acc dakini holding a candle to Twashtar/Parzonium (OAT).

There will be new content designed for higher levels where acc is needed as usual. However people will STILL be doing current content for a LONG time to chase some of the older but still good gear. This stuff wont need acc at all.

A VAST amount of the game will not need any acc at all in the future.


I believe the Twaster is a superior choice because it has an obscene DoT /tp return. I am choosing the two thunder Kiala's because it fits my playstyle best, not because I think it's the superior choice. Shamaya said he expects the twaster will require 50 drops from a difficult T3 abyssean NM in the twaster thread (I agree with this expectation) and the flame Kiala's still require 200 flan kills. I haven't been able to play very hardcore because of my job interfering. I have a 45 minute commute each way and my work hours are either 2:30-10:30 (evening) or 7-3 (morning) and the shifts can come in any order including evening followed by morning back to back. It's physical in nature so I'm often tired and when I log in I do so for shorter periods than I used to and don't accomplish very much (getting home at 11:30 and being up at 5 am is killer...I'm lucky if I get 4 hours sleep when that happens). My thief is still level 76 and I'm leveling it slowly with some close friends duo and trio style on trolls and weapons in ro meave (my current dakini trial is 200 arcana). I'm enjoying it though and they make for good company.

In my case I have chosen to work on the thunder branch of the kialas because they have a DoT rating that would allow me to eat meat while donning full haste on the old content where I will no longer need to eat pizza but previously the pizza/haste build would have been better. My dexterity with the two thunder daggers will be 117 so there's a good chance I can break into the sweet spot of 1/1 dex/crit rate ratio with that figure and the critical attack bonus is a nice perk; that and the secondary mods from 12 dex is still beneficial.

This is something I can work on with a slower pace than you guys will probably be going at and still see a return. I have just a basic social shell that probably won't be hitting the tough abyssean nms so I don't expect to complete the twaster even though I think it's a better dagger. Mandau, however, is something I can complete with some simple crafting and saving over a long enough period of time. That was always a matter of perseverance with slow and steady progress (it's just a simple fetch quest with expensive requirements). I'm working with the cards my life has dealt me and making the weapon choices I think are best for my situation. If I can eat meat and use full haste on old stuff but lose out on the new content somewhat then so be it, that's what I'll have to do. I still enjoy playing, and that's enough to keep me coming back for more.

Edited, Jun 27th 2010 10:43am by Melphina
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#17 Jun 27 2010 at 8:51 AM Rating: Good
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I'm in-between both of the opinions here and will probably stick with fire and thunder kilas as a hybrid setup. I do agree with melph in that having acc will be a good thing on future mobs, but at the same time we just got a HUGE boost in our acc gear in other slots (8 acc bomblet, 20 acc back, 12 acc 5 dagger skill head, etc) so we can easily compensate for the lack of acc and eat meat. On the other hand, me being mithra I am low in the str/attack category and this is where the fire kila comes in.

Like I said before, I'll eventually get around to having a twashtar, but for now the kilas will do nicely for a balaced setup.
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#18 Jun 27 2010 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
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I'm curiously wondering myself what kind of stats the higher level mobs are going to have. Accuracy is easy to find for the old game now so in order to make the future events challenging the mobs will have to have (theoretically) a huge evasion to dodge what we have now. I'm sure s-e has something up their sleeves. Accuracy food runs on percentile gains no less, so the more you have the more you get. If you have 300 accuracy then HQ pizza is only 33 accuracy increase, whereas if you have 400 accuracy hq pizza gives 44 accuracy, 5.5% hitrate more for the same food. That also makes me wonder about something I read in the version update notes

check this out

SE Wrote:
Quote:
Battle-related
.
lotsa stuff
.
.
Level restrictions imposed upon Chains of Promathia mission battlefields have been lifted.

The level 75 restriction has been lifted on battlefields.

A cap has been placed upon status enhancements granted by certain food items.


I don't believe anybody has tested this yet, but I have a feeling pizza and sushi just got their accuracy bonuses capped. If that's the case pizza may or may not be the end all food come future updates depending on what they may or may not have done here. Those words have me more concerned now than ever in light of the current discussion that accuracy food may have just been nerfed.

I have some final food for thought for you. S-E has taken to adding new armor that increases power dramatically but lowers accuracy. Aside from the Acubens helm last update there are a number of items in this update with large increases in damage stats with a penalty of accuracy. We don't know just WHAT s-e will be doing in the future, but I wouldn't count on us not having to worry about accuracy forever. We all know s-e, and being able to ignore accuracy like we can now is the kind of thing they like too change down the line (IE: It's too easy, lets make it harder). There are 19 more levels with 4 version updates to go yet, so the mechanics of the future are still very much up in the air.

Edited, Jun 27th 2010 11:30am by Melphina
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#19 Jun 27 2010 at 9:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Im not to concerned about the (always enigmatic SE) food caps. My thinking is that they are putting caps on some things like dragon meats, sushi etc simply because uncapped atk/acc foods will have obscene bonuses as our levels go up. If they continue the 5skill/level path (hypothetically) we will have 25 levels from 75-99 meaning 125 more combat skills, not to mention new brd buffs (assumed to get min/mad increases in the future), things like zerk and choas roll also being % increases to atk. Can you imagine the atk the current uncapped red curry, pizza or sushi would do at level 99? Those would have WAY to much power. For estimation, most DDs aim for about ~400 acc (less for 1hand, hair mroe for 2hand but its a round number). Lets toss 125 skill on (~108 acc), and another 12 in new gear for a simple 120 more acc. 520ish acc means pizza now gives 52-57+ acc and 50-55atk. Sushi gives 83acc. Lets say a war has ~550 atk base. Zerk+22% uncapped bun+Chaos roll.......umm....yeah.

Im relating the capping foods more like they did with meatkabobs years ago. It used to be Chiefkabobs for everything because they were uncapped meat food. The stuck a cap on, and released a variety of new food with staggered bonuses using caps. I imagine this will be similar. Cap the % based foods so they dont get broken as we get better, then introduce new foods to scale a little better with our new stats. The % foods are designed around lv 75 stats.

My guess is this is just a retooling in preparation for increasing stats. Not really a serious change in the overall relationship of food buffs to char stats. But it is SE, so who knows what will REALLY happen.

Edit: just to reiterate, I believe acc will still be just as important to the new endgame as ever, but there will be a LOT of content still around that acc will be capped at as the levels rise which means Acc gear will not be quite as universally needed for ALL mobs like it was last week.

Edited, Jun 27th 2010 11:46am by Banalaty
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#20 Jun 27 2010 at 10:30 AM Rating: Good
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Edit: just to reiterate, I believe acc will still be just as important to the new endgame as ever, but there will be a LOT of content still around that acc will be capped at as the levels rise which means Acc gear will not be quite as universally needed for ALL mobs like it was last week.


I don't think I could have said it better myself. This is the perfect way to express my thoughts. I wonder what kind of haste/other new stats will be coming our way though. it is exciting to think about. Gear that lowers accuracy but increases damage potential is also an interesting thought, and I have a feeling s-e may be adding a lot more of this stuff in the levels to come. It kinda makes you wonder what's going to be released in the future. It's really cool tbh. I'm looking forward to it.
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#21 Jun 27 2010 at 11:04 AM Rating: Default
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I'm personally feeling that the 50 drops for the last stage are going to come from walk of echoes, as some last stages require 50 coins of whatever they're called, all trials mirror each other basically, and said coins are a confirmed drop from WoE.

Edit: Oh, nvm, the coins of thingy from WoE are for the other final stage of that line, whatever it's called, with the worse dly/dmg.

Edited, Jun 27th 2010 5:08pm by Noodles
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#22 Jun 27 2010 at 5:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Noodles wrote:
I'm personally feeling that the 50 drops for the last stage are going to come from walk of echoes, as some last stages require 50 coins of whatever they're called, all trials mirror each other basically, and said coins are a confirmed drop from WoE.

Edit: Oh, nvm, the coins of thingy from WoE are for the other final stage of that line, whatever it's called, with the worse dly/dmg.

Edited, Jun 27th 2010 5:08pm by Noodles


Glavoid is an Abyssea NM, I am told it drops something like 1-2 shells per kill. Pop item costs Cruor to purchase and (I think) a trophy from a lower tier NM)
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#23 Jun 27 2010 at 6:20 PM Rating: Good
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Glavoid is an Abyssea NM, I am told it drops something like 1-2 shells per kill. Pop item costs Cruor to purchase and (I think) a trophy from a lower tier NM)


That's something I'd like to ask about actually. How exactly does the abyssean NM tier system work? I've only entered abyssea three times thus far with two other people and we've just done some basic exploring and killing of basic mobs. I don't know how much info is known of the place yet. I've been checking back for the daily updates on the wiki page but haven't found any info on the nm system yet. Could someone elaborate on this for me?
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#24 Jun 28 2010 at 12:19 AM Rating: Good
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Abyssea
Time consuming, but I've been keeping up with this thread for Abyssea information. I'm sure most of the stuff on Wiki will come from there. Abyssea is actually multi-faceted, and the NM systems in there are three-fold:

-VNM Type System
-Pop System
-Other

By other, I mean that there are just some time-spawn NM's roaming around. Well, there are a fair amount of these. I think there also might be lotto NM's.
To engage in the pop system, you generally have to go and farm a particular family of mobs until they drop the pop item. Find the ??? and trade, kill the NM that pops. That NM will either drop a pop item into your inventory (some of these you can actually sell on the AH) or will drop a key-item to be used as a pop item. Go to the next corresponding tier of ???'s in this fashion.
The VNM type system is essentially the same as in Vana'diel. You buy a clear abyssite from an abyssea NPC for 300 cruor. Rest, track down your mob, kill, hope to get a color conversion, and then procede to the next tier.


Weapon Selection
Thoughts on weapons... weapons.. hmm. This is such an important topic. For me, I'm thinking I would like to ideally go Mandau/Twashtar, unless the Aurik Dagger is really quite strong. Either that, or offhand the "Parazonium" or w/e (isn't that like, a genus of plankton?) OAT weapon now that it's been buffed again. I don't have the hots for the Str/Atk Kila so much. When accuracy is really needed, there's the Dex/Acc Kila. When it's not needed, there are options with higher base Dmg and lower delay. And generally I'd prefer those over Str/Atk.

But to truly be a specialist at a particular job class, I think there's a very good chance you're going to want multiple different types of weapons, just as we have multiple sets of armor and food. "sh*t is situational". This was true before and it will probably be true in the future. Truer, maybe.. as it seems like the number of viable weapon combinations may be increasing.

Truth is that prior to now, I did find what I felt to be solid uses for /blau, /X's, and /Ridill. Even Kraken Club, in my opinion, had/has a valid niche use in Nyzul Isle as a Mandau offhand.

To really know what's going to be best, now and in the future, we're going to also need to know about,
-How target mobs have changed, and
-How food has changed

I think the food thing is a very important point. It could any/all/none of the popular DD foods that've changed, for all we know.

My personal opinion is that Twashtar, Aurik Dagger, and the OAT Parazoum (sp) will have the most widespread application as the best weapons for a given task. I think at least one accuracy Kila would be very good to have, but I'm thinking that two might be overkill. I'm thinking that not only cuz of the level increase and how good just one of them is, but also because of how much incredible accuracy equipment they've recently added. For older content, I think you may often find yourself needing only one, if even, to cap accuracy. Without the need for pizza. And if you need extra accuracy, I'd sooner use pizza and a powerful dmg/delay option over heavy accuracy and meat. I have nothing solid back this up.. just speculation.

I started writing up a comparison for several mandau combinations, but I'm not sure if I'll actually finish it. One thing I'm concerned about is the fact that math comparisons are severely lacking in that they seem to almost always assume that you're engaged to something 100% of the time. The fact is, that is far from true, and with the element of JA timers ticking down when not engaged, I feel that certain weapon combinations are over/underestimated. For example, back in nyzul isle I tried Mandau/Kclub and it was surprisingly effective. I felt that traveling 20 seconds to find a mob just to have a 10-20 second fight, it was better for my damage to get TP really fast in that short fight and let out a huge mercy stroke; otherwise, my potential ja/ws dmg seems to go to waste.

On top of fight time vs afk time not being included in a lot of math writeups, I feel the math is really weak in that the pDif formulae are still not complete. And most writeups that the community has done have not involved JA/WS delay. For these factors mostly, and of course others, I think that in the future we should continue to use parsing along with math to make solid decisions on weapon/gear choices.

Sorry for the long post.

Edited, Jun 28th 2010 8:05am by Shamaya
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