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Denali Bonnet?Follow

#52 Sep 24 2009 at 7:51 PM Rating: Decent
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I actually had a Thf/Drg build in mind for Vajra, before it was found that the double attack is only a 300%tp aftermath. And the idea was to spam DE/EV between ja+ms's. Also I wonder how much dmg a triple attack sa/ta+jump would do (then add relic proc). That would be pretty intense. Not sure if weapon-based double attacks are factored into jump damage, like job trait double attack; prolly not though :(
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#53 Sep 24 2009 at 8:27 PM Rating: Default
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When did Alla turn into BG? Someone with too much sarcasm got a little lost.

Edited, Sep 25th 2009 12:32am by TaruMalphius
#54 Sep 26 2009 at 6:01 AM Rating: Decent
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I wasn't being sarcastic, at least >.>

Of course I had double march / haste samba onry in mind.
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#55 Sep 27 2009 at 9:09 AM Rating: Default
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Sorry not you, a few posters back is who i was refering to.
#56 Sep 27 2009 at 9:51 PM Rating: Good
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TaruMalphius wrote:
Sorry not you, a few posters back is who i was refering to.



Who me? I do believe I came to the right place when I posted. In a game that relies heavily on gear to achieve optimum performance wearing the turban should be a no brainer over I'll wear the bonnet because it matches my shirt/looks pretty/makes me aerodynamically correct etc. I don't care what you wear its your game you play like you want to, I was just merely disagreeing with your point of view and cracking a horrible joke over it in the process.
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#57 Sep 27 2009 at 11:29 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Walahra Turban +5%
Speed belt +6%
Dusk gloves +1 +4%
Homam pants +3%
Homam feet +3%
Rapparee harness +4%


Airy Buckler Wyvern Earring too, like someone said. 31% haste baby!! (Too bad it doesn't work that way, eh?) :)

More seriously...

THF/drk or THF/war
Walahra Turban +5%
Denali Bonnet +4%
Speed belt +6%
Dusk gloves +1 +4%
Homam pants +3%
Homam feet +3%
Rapparee harness +4%
Airy Buckler +1%
Total: 25%

THF/drg:
Walahra Turban +5%
Skadi's Visor +3%
Speed belt +6%
Dusk gloves +1 +4%
Homam pants +3%
Homam feet +3%
Rapparee harness +4%
ACP body with 10ACC 10ATK
Wyvern Earring +5%
Airy Buckler +1%
Total: 25% Haste

So there 'ya go. If you're that pimped, then dust the bonnet off and have a go at it. But then again, if you are that pimped you probably don't need this post to know what to do, right? ^^

Incidentally, that THF/drg build looks sick as ****. TA/Jump = plant hate on you as I'm running away, sorry sucker! :P

Edited, Sep 28th 2009 2:39am by NatePrawdzik
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#58 Sep 28 2009 at 5:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Due to the way haste lies about its real value (well dissected on BG, its really fractions of X/255 or some nonsense) its takes 26% haste to cap. So, barring /drg, you have to use w turban, airy buckler, rapp, speed or v belt, dusk +1 and homam (i guess dusk feet +1 are fine too) to reach 26%.

So, /nin its stupid to cap haste, and on all other subs except drg, w turban is required.

All of this was proven of course using recasts of very long recast spells (like the pld shield spell, or drain 2) sometimes with a JA like segian or hasso up to double the recasts (making small varaitions apparent) and checking recasts in the Spell menu (not recast plugin).
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#59 Sep 28 2009 at 5:07 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, but that last 1% might give you a tiny fraction of haste more, so although it might be worth gearing for, it might not be when you are talking about swapping from:

Turban/Rap Harness
+1.18% True Haste (3/256 more than the below build)
-VS-
Skadi/Mirke Hauby
STR +5 DEX +9 AGI +9
Attack +16 Ranged Attack +6 Accuracy +10

I think the 2nd one wins, personally.

See below for math.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notes on results:
You actually have to do the math yourself for each haste item to find out what the correct increase will be going from 25 to 26. Basically, you have to find the xxx/256 value for each item by multiplying 256 times the listed haste value and dropping the decimal (that's where you get shorted). Next, add each item's real value in fractions, then compare that total to the correct 25% total which if all things are correct would be 68/256. Here, let's do it with the proposed gear (I'll do the entire process on turban just so you see what I'm talking about). Note that some values of Haste may land just right so you don't actually get screwed out of any:

Walahra Turban +5%*256 = 12.8/256 (drop decimal) = 12/256 4.68% True Haste
Rapparee harness +4% = 10/256

Speed belt +6% = 15/256
Dusk gloves +1 +4% = 10/256
Homam pants +3% = 7/256
Homam feet +3% = 7/256
Airy Buckler +1% = 2/256

Skadi's Visor +3% = 7/256
Wyvern Earring +5% = 12/256

OK, so let's add the top values and see how much haste we get from the originally proposed gear.

15+12+10+10+7+7+2 = 63/256 = 24.61% True Haste (A 2% haste item would make up the remaining 5/256, exactly.)
2nd Set
15+12+10+7+7+7+2 = 60/256 = 23.43% True Haste (A 3% haste item would get you 1/256 short of capped. 4 x 1% items would get you capped exactly. A 4% item would get you capped with a few fractions wasted.)

Compare the above to, like, monk with their insane belt:
5% Turban
5% Byakko's
12% BB
3% Fuma

30+12+12+7 = 61/256 = 23.8% True Haste (A 3% item would cap it exactly.)

Note that due to how the difference in item fractions means the 25% THF swings slower than than 25% MNK, at least as far as haste from gear is factored, but then again that thief could drop Skadi and go back to Turban for even more haste.

At any rate, it's all very interesting but either way, let's just hope our thieves can get in a position to put any of these in practice, eh? :D

EDIT: For THF, it seems you will need more than 26% to reach cap. Looks like 28% is the number, if I have this math right.

Edited, Sep 28th 2009 8:08pm by NatePrawdzik
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#60 Sep 28 2009 at 5:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Still doesn't make /drg too useful. giving up 20% dw, or zerk and 10% da just isnt going to cut it in most situations. /drg seems best to me if only SA and TA solos (and occasion TA+ws) are allowed.
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#61 Sep 30 2009 at 5:59 AM Rating: Decent
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NatePrawdzik wrote:
THF/drk or THF/war
Walahra Turban +5%
Denali Bonnet +4%
Speed belt +6%
Dusk gloves +1 +4%
Homam pants +3%
Homam feet +3%
Rapparee harness +4%
Airy Buckler +1%
Viking Shield +12Att
Total: 25%

Success.
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#62 Sep 30 2009 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
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TheKhory wrote:
Denali head is trash.

If you are attacking, Turban is better damage than less haste +3 attack.

If you need evasion, you should be wearing Ohat and swapping in turban for utsu.

Neither are very hard to aquire.


I have no comment about wearing denali hat for tp or evasion tanking, although Im sure a highly situational case could be made.

To my knowledge, the only head piece that beats Denali Bonnet for solo Trick Attack is Maat's cap. For most of the player base, it is the best Trick Attack head piece.

For any THF looking to maximize gear sets, this is a must-have in your Trick Attack set.


Edit:

DOh >< forgot about skadi's visor. But barring Skadi or Maat's this is next in line. Still a great trick piece if you don't have either of those 2.

Edited, Sep 30th 2009 2:50pm by ThiefKiller
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#63 Sep 30 2009 at 12:13 PM Rating: Decent
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ThiefKiller wrote:
DOh >< forgot about skadi's visor. But barring Skadi or Maat's this is next in line. Still a great trick piece if you don't have either of those 2.


Isn't Dragon Cap +1 better than Denali Bonnet as well?

Maat's > Skadi > Dragon +1 > Denali > Dragon nq should be the right progression right?

Edited, Sep 30th 2009 4:14pm by Spurius
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Merits - HP: 8 Str: 1 Dex: 2 Dagger: 8 Marksmanship: 4 Evasion: 4 Parrying: 4 Crit Rate: 4 Spell Interruption rate: 4 Sneak Attack: 5 Triple Attack: 5 Assassin's Charge: 4 Feint: 5 Aura Steal: 1

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#64 Sep 30 2009 at 12:28 PM Rating: Good
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Spurius wrote:
ThiefKiller wrote:
DOh >< forgot about skadi's visor. But barring Skadi or Maat's this is next in line. Still a great trick piece if you don't have either of those 2.


Isn't Dragon Cap +1 better than Denali Bonnet as well?

Maat's > Skadi > Dragon +1 > Denali > Dragon nq should be the right progression right?

Edited, Sep 30th 2009 4:14pm by Spurius


I believe denali edges out Dragon +1 because it also has haste (and a bit of attack) on it.
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#65 Oct 01 2009 at 7:48 AM Rating: Decent
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That "true haste" thing always bothered me, since I've seen people use 256, 512, and 1024; and that the value changes depending on which you use.
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#66 Oct 01 2009 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
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Without going into much detail because I have to leave for work in a few minutes.

Noodles wrote
Quote:
NatePrawdzik wrote:
THF/drk or THF/war
Walahra Turban +5%
Denali Bonnet +4%
Speed belt +6%
Dusk gloves +1 +4%
Homam pants +3%
Homam feet +3%
Rapparee harness +4%
Airy Buckler +1%
Viking Shield +12Att
Total: 25%

Success.


I completely agree. The viking shield will always be better than the Airy Buckler when you /war. I'd take the 12 attack over 1% haste and 2 accuracy any day, especially when you consider that during the time you spend zerked you get an additional 4 more attack due to the 1.25 multiplication factor of the shields +12 fulltime attack.

Edited, Oct 1st 2009 1:10pm by Melphina
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