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Perfect Dodge. Just a thoughtFollow

#1 Aug 12 2009 at 6:53 PM Rating: Default
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Was posting something in the main forum, in a "what would you do if you were SE?" post. And thought of this as a job adjustment for Thief, what would you think if SE input something like this:

Under the affect of Perfect Dodge, Collaborator will steal 100% of the target's enmity and re-direct it to the Thf. Accomplice will steal 50% of the party's enmity (within an aera of effect from the target selected) and re-direct it to the thf.

Could make PD actually worthwhile outside of an osh*t-whilst-solo JA.
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#2 Aug 12 2009 at 6:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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At the same time, let PD dodge ranged attacks ffs.
#3 Aug 12 2009 at 7:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Then we would actually be able to tank for 30 seconds with that much hate. Although offensively i would like 30s of Sneak Attacks on the first hit.
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#4 Aug 13 2009 at 5:15 AM Rating: Decent
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30 Secs of sneak attacks would be cool, except after the first few secs, striking for 400+ every hit, you're going to pull hate and unless you're on something that doesn't move, gonna lose the ability to hit from behind.

Yes, I also agree with dodging ranged attacks. And Blue Mage physical spells (though I have no idea if it does already?)

But I just like the idea of making Perfect Dodge useful in a complete Osh*t moment. You could even put them in the Drk party at a zerg and tank half way through whilst they SEBW it.
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#5 Aug 14 2009 at 8:06 AM Rating: Good
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I would vote to keep PD the way it is if given the choice. I find that I generate a lot of enmity as it is. Snagging 100%/50% emnity from target/party in addition to my own is pretty dangerous; especially on non-hide mobs. Under your scenario, if you use Accomp/Collab while under the effects of Perfect Dodge; when wears you're going to have all that enmity still on you. You would have to toss on your EVA set and try your best to blink tank until a tank pulls that hate off you. On some of the higher leveled mobs that take longer to kill and have greater ACC, I would think that you'd put unneccesary stress on the backline jobs to keep you alive. I realize that Accomp/Collab is a JA in conjuction with PD so you would be "Given the Choice" to use it or not. Looking at the everything though, i'd rather see other things fixed before SE jacks with our two hour.
#6 Aug 14 2009 at 10:57 AM Rating: Default
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Brockonunicorn wrote:
I find that I generate a lot of enmity as it is.
Either you don't do any real endgame, or your tanks are terrible.

I was thinking this at least would give it a use. Tank messed up and died to ixion? toss Thf in RNG party, steal ALL their hate, and kite/flee-kite.

Zerging Kirin/Bv2/KV/Etc? Stick Thf in Drk party, and 2hr half way through. If you run out of time on CS Stun (If you're using it) then at least your Drks wont die. For Shells attempting their first/first few zerg HNM fights, a dead Mkris drk can be a serious problem.

At the moment it has no use in anything outside of messing up while solo or such.
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#7 Aug 14 2009 at 12:25 PM Rating: Default
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effect
#8 Aug 14 2009 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
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Noodles wrote:
Quote:
Brockonunicorn wrote:
Quote:
I find that I generate a lot of enmity as it is.

Either you don't do any real endgame, or your tanks are terrible.


The same could be said of your experiences after dinging 75. If you think our JA's should get an emnity boost whilst under the effects of Perfect Dodge, then "Either you don't do any real endgame, or your tanks are terrible." Just sayin'.

Quote:
I was thinking this at least would give it a use. Tank messed up and died to ixion? toss Thf in RNG party, steal ALL their hate, and kite/flee-kite.


As if "it" wasn't already useful as is. I do not see as many THFs complaining about PD as I do with say BLU's about Azure Lore, or RNG's about EES who's Sidewinders regularly do more DMG than their two hour. It is in my opinion that Perfect Dodge is incredibly useful. I just wish it was on a < 2 hr. timer. If your tank is "messing up" on Ixion enough to cause you concern, then perhaps he/she should come WHM as punishment.

Quote:
Zerging Kirin/Bv2/KV/Etc? Stick Thf in Drk party, and 2hr half way through. If you run out of time on CS Stun (If you're using it) then at least your Drks wont die. For Shells attempting their first/first few zerg HNM fights, a dead Mkris drk can be a serious problem.


But that is just it. Zerg strats are risky. If you are willing to take the chance on Kirin Zerg, then sure go for it. You enter that zerg strat knowing full well though that if your Kclub/Mkris DRKs start falling to the way side while Kirin starts popping his friends, then you probably have failed your run and with it your seals.

That is rudimentary knowledge though. You learn of these risks way early on in this game. As early as Ronfaure. Take a level 2 thinking he is gong to take on a VT Orc. He/She has to make a choice. Will put a potential home point on the line for about 200xp or should I just stick with worms and rabbits and make the same XP over time? The risk your LS takes by zerging of an HNM is wasted Seals (time camping or Cloud Evoker) if they fail but the chance to end the fight quicker than killing mini's 1-by-1 and killing Kirin last.

Quote:
At the moment it has no use in anything outside of messing up while solo or such.


Your version of an enhanced two hour would definately bring a appeal to THF coming to endgame not just because some lead wants TH. I'm not saying it's useless. Any buff to any JA is better than nothing. While your "If I was SE, I would..." idea is nice and all; I would hope that if you we're given FFXI to manage, fixing something else besides Perfect Dodge would be a priority. I can think of a couple of things if you want. Here's one:

"Why am I level 100 cooking (A veteran) but still capable of failing a synth at level 2; or even under level 50 for that matter? It's like Emiril Lagasse or Rachel Ray failing to make a bag of microwavable popcorn."



Edited, Aug 14th 2009 4:33pm by Brockonunicorn
#9 Aug 14 2009 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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By the way, that was just my opinion on fix priorities so my apologies if I went off on a tageant. Respect for sharing what you would fix though.
#10 Aug 14 2009 at 1:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Perfect Dodge should be changed to deduct your exp loss from each of your alliance members by 100exp for each time you sac pull and die.

No, seriously, I don't think this JA needs any boosting.


It needs a complete overhaul. Just like you did with 66+ base dagger damage that we asked for SE. Which you will then follow with tp floor nerf, and then a 2 hander acc/attk boost that erases the base dagger damage boost. Crap, I shouldn't complain about anything wrong with Thief. SE will come fix it in a few years and then boost every other type of job by so much it won't matter. Anyways, what were we talking about? Oh yeah, Perfect Dodge. It's a horrible JA as is, one of the worst 2 hours in the game. I pretty much forget I even have this ability until someone tells me I should probably pop it, along with Flee, just in case some crap catches up with me while I'm saving the alliance from a total wipe. I'd have preferred almost any ability besides Perfect Dodge, which plays into our job description.

How about Perfect Mug every 2 hours for 10,000-50,000 gil?

How about Perfect Steal for a stack of platinum/gold/silver/beastcoins?

How about Perfect Precision for a 100% haste for a minute and every hit is a critical hit?

Instead we got 1/3 Dodge. Couldn't even give us two-thirds, we get the ability only to dodge 33% of the various types of attacks (magic, ranged, melee). Definitely sounds "perfect" to me.

I hate Perfect Dodge. It just sits there accumulating cobwebs until I remember it *might* help. You know it might, because our evasion is so low, we can't get by without it.





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#11 Aug 14 2009 at 1:16 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
how about Perfect Precision for a 100% haste for a minute and every hit is a critical hit?


Epic Win

Only if its on a 1 minute timer though.

Edited, Aug 14th 2009 5:17pm by Brockonunicorn
#12 Aug 14 2009 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Brockonunicorn wrote:
Quote:
how about Perfect Precision for a 100% haste for a minute and every hit is a critical hit?


Epic Win

Only if its on a 1 minute timer though.

Edited, Aug 14th 2009 5:17pm by Brockonunicorn
It could be 1 second timer from first hit landed and be just as good with 100% haste xD

Edited, Aug 14th 2009 11:19pm by Noodles
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#13 Aug 20 2009 at 10:45 AM Rating: Good
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My knock on PD is that it doesn't have much group utility.

Were it me doing the development, I'd just have PD set the recast timer for TA and SA to zero for the duration of the 2hr...so, if grouped, you could use the time to consolidate some hate or do a bit of extra damage. Solo, you'd still have that extra 30 sec of survivability.
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#14 Aug 20 2009 at 10:57 AM Rating: Good
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It might be more interesting if it affected the whole party, the way that some 2HRs do like WHM, etc. THF is often the unsung hero of the show; maybe with a more tangible, "I saved everyone by buying them 30 seconds to prevent the wipe" type of 2hr, THF would get more credit. If they did that, it wouldn't help solo THF of course, but maybe they are worried about balance issues there? (I'm not really sure if they are or why they would be, but who knows.)
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#15 Aug 20 2009 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent
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I always thought PD should be on a 5 minute recast (like Sentinel for PLD) and find it very confusing that the masters of evasion had no job abilities to increase it in a pinch. Like why did MNK get dodge?

Id actually like to see our 2 hour cause the elimination of recast timers for 60 seconds on our THFly JA's. Call it "Perfection" :D (No I don't think this would be too broken, RDM gets CS for 60 seconds and can do a lot of versatile things with it)

Need to deal more damage? You would still need to position for TA and SA of course but you could spam them and contribute to Damage. (And also combine them with sata hide for 3-4 fully stacked ws in a zerg)

Need to tank in a pinch? Spam accomplice and pop PD.

Need to debuff a big monster (and in turn buff yourself)? Spam Aura Steal.

Steal and Mug would be minor concerns because mobs only have one item and limited gil pools.



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#16 Aug 20 2009 at 8:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Noodles wrote:
Brockonunicorn wrote:
Quote:
how about Perfect Precision for a 100% haste for a minute and every hit is a critical hit?


Epic Win

Only if its on a 1 minute timer though.

Edited, Aug 14th 2009 5:17pm by Brockonunicorn
It could be 1 second timer from first hit landed and be just as good with 100% haste xD

Edited, Aug 14th 2009 11:19pm by Noodles


It'd either crash the game, or be infinitely more powerful then a KC drk. Smiley: lol
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#17 Aug 20 2009 at 9:35 PM Rating: Decent
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SE mentioned a loooong while back that they were looking into ways that Perfect Dodge could affect Sneak Attack and/or Trick Attack to further its utility. But, as with so many of SE's little promises, it turned out to be empty (Rather like those avatars they mentioned -- Don't think I've forgotten SE).

Personally, I'd love Perfect Dodge to enhance them. Perhaps offering a guaranteed hit + Critical for every hit during Sneak Attack (Rather than just the first hit), allowing us to SA + DE in full attack gear rather than switching for accuracy. How about Trick Attack applying an additional 50% enmity to the target when it's used? How about the ability to dodge those pesky arrows? It's Perfect Dodge not Penultimate Dodge.

And these are ideas from a relatively new Thief, im sure the seasoned vets can think up better stuff than that. If I can come up with decent ideas, then what on Vana'diel is taking SE so long?
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#18 Aug 21 2009 at 4:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I always thought PD should be on a 5 minute recast


This

Quote:
How about Perfect Steal for a stack of platinum/gold/silver/beastcoins?

Adjust this slightly and let's you steal something the monster actually drops :D

"Bimbam steals a Byakko's Haidate"

Yeh I could live with that :D



Scrap the second idea, you'd get alliances of Thf's purely for AV/PW runs stealing and wiping. Touch broken lol
#20 Aug 22 2009 at 9:59 PM Rating: Decent
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JiggaJ wrote:
Noodles wrote:
Zerging Kirin/Bv2/KV/Etc? Stick Thf in Drk party, and 2hr half way through. If you run out of time on CS Stun (If you're using it) then at least your Drks wont die. For Shells attempting their first/first few zerg HNM fights, a dead Mkris drk can be a serious problem.

Except:
You cant chainstun Kirin
If you run out of chainstun on bv2 you're getting terraflared
If you run out of chainstun on KV its going to get earthbreaker off
Etc


this wont save you.


I've crossed out the ones where I know your counter-point doesn't matter. I've never done KV so I can't comment on that.
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