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#52 Mar 27 2009 at 7:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Lobivopis wrote:
As said earlier in this thread adding 1.75 cRatio bonus to Trick Attack would go a long way toward gaining THF respect on HNMs. We still wouldn't outdamage SAM or DRK or whatever but WS numbers are what people pay attention to. Not to mention it would help us keep hate on the tank better.

Edited, Mar 27th 2009 6:04am by Lobivopis


I like this idea too. Yes, there is no denying we are invited for Treasure Hunter 2 + .1/.2 endgame. But allowing us at least contribute some small measure of hate control, to a larger degree than we currently do, wouldn't be game breaking I don't think. Particularly in light of the 2 handed adjustments made back in August 2006.
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#53 Mar 27 2009 at 7:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Lobivopis wrote:
As said earlier in this thread adding 1.75 cRatio bonus to Trick Attack would go a long way toward gaining THF respect on HNMs. We still wouldn't outdamage SAM or DRK or whatever but WS numbers are what people pay attention to. Not to mention it would help us keep hate on the tank better.

Basically, your "problems" are solved by giving THF Gekko.

Mercy Stroke is just as good as any other DD's WS on HNM, and it still doesn't command any particularly awesome respect.
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#54 Mar 27 2009 at 8:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mercy Stroke is just as good as any other DD's WS on HNM, and it still doesn't command any particularly awesome respect.


I'll agree with this, but I have to throw out that this is a catch-22. The reason Mercy Stroke doesn't command awesome respect at HNM is two fold. First, it means building TP with dagger, which compared to the 2 handers is inefficient DoT. Even Mandau will hit for low numbers and by the time a thief has 100% tp on HNM the 2 hander could have tp'd faster and done 5-10 times more damage, leaving a noticable gap in DoT. WS aren't everything so this hurts us.

Secondly, and possibly more importantly, is that when you low man a HNM even today you find times you need to sleep the thing. I've done the dragon's aery at 5 am, I've been in a few Nidhogg battles at this hour... it sucked. We typically had several blms, a pair of paladins, and me with a rdm or whm in a pinch. Mandau inflicts poison, this can't be helped. If they may need to sleep the thing that wrecks the plan, leading to a wipe. In scenarios like this where you know you will NEED sleep Mandau is forbidden.

So yes, while Mercy Stroke isn't regarded with ultimate respect at HNM, the devil is in the details, and it's the mechanics that cause it. The 1.75 cRatio adjustment to trick attack and A+ dagger skill are my favorite ideas so far because they add a nice little perk without being over-the-top OMG BROKED!!, and are within reason.

Edited, Mar 27th 2009 12:09pm by Melphina
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#55 Mar 27 2009 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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i'm confused... what HNMs are you guys talking about that aren't just burned down like a merit mob (but with a tank, usually PLD/NIN or NIN/DRK)? because i'd bet money that there's less than 5 in the game (excluding mobs that no one melees--incidentally, THFs can make themselves useful in those fights while SAMs and such can't).

all "just make my multipliers bigger" ideas are bad. without exception. "wahhh i want to parse higher."
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#57 Mar 27 2009 at 7:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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For all extensive purposes,
For all intents and purposes.
For all intents and purposes.
FOR ALL intents and purposes.
FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES.



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#58 Mar 27 2009 at 7:41 PM Rating: Decent
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I'll agree with this, but I have to throw out that this is a catch-22. The reason Mercy Stroke doesn't command awesome respect at HNM is two fold. First, it means building TP with dagger, which compared to the 2 handers is inefficient DoT. Even Mandau will hit for low numbers and by the time a thief has 100% tp on HNM the 2 hander could have tp'd faster and done 5-10 times more damage, leaving a noticable gap in DoT. WS aren't everything so this hurts us.


Can be fixed easily.

(insert name of ability here): Increases your weapon's damage but lowers your attack speed.

Increases your weapon's DMG rating and delay by 50%. Lasts 5 minutes with a 5 minute recast.



Edited, Mar 28th 2009 12:44am by Lobivopis
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#59 Mar 27 2009 at 7:47 PM Rating: Good
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JiggaJ wrote:
For all extensive purposes, the poison doesnt last that long (eyeballing at approx 30 seconds). No fight goes from smooth to "O sh*t" in a matter of seconds, where that duration of the poison will play an impact. Most experienced melee's will turn around anyways if a fight is going poorly in an attempt to slow things down, thus the poison shouldnt proc to begin with. Any melee who keeps swinging when things are looking bleak is a garbage player to begin with.


Tell that to the LS that tried to take Kirin from us after we were having trouble w/ the lessers and Suzaku wiping almost their entire LS in a matter of seconds. Yes, the lesser Suzaku.
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#60 Mar 27 2009 at 8:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Hozu wrote:
JiggaJ wrote:
For all extensive purposes, the poison doesnt last that long (eyeballing at approx 30 seconds). No fight goes from smooth to "O sh*t" in a matter of seconds, where that duration of the poison will play an impact. Most experienced melee's will turn around anyways if a fight is going poorly in an attempt to slow things down, thus the poison shouldnt proc to begin with. Any melee who keeps swinging when things are looking bleak is a garbage player to begin with.


Tell that to the LS that tried to take Kirin from us after we were having trouble w/ the lessers and Suzaku wiping almost their entire LS in a matter of seconds. Yes, the lesser Suzaku.


Mandau's poison should be changed so that it does not wake a mob up.

Edited, Mar 28th 2009 1:05am by Lobivopis
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#61 Mar 27 2009 at 8:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Tell that to the LS that tried to take Kirin from us after we were having trouble w/ the lessers and Suzaku wiping almost their entire LS in a matter of seconds. Yes, the lesser Suzaku.


Smiley: confused How exactly does poison make lesser suzaku able to kill people?
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#62 Mar 27 2009 at 8:12 PM Rating: Good
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No fight goes from smooth to "O sh*t" in a matter of seconds, where that duration of the poison will play an impact.


Nidhogg can....30 seconds is more than enough. If she takes out a main tank and begins hurricane wing (or just eating) your ally it can very well mean the end of you. This is more than enough to take out a 7-8 man small team group that would otherwise be capable of handling the scenario.

Edited, Mar 28th 2009 12:13am by Melphina
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#63 Mar 27 2009 at 8:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Cyth wrote:
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For all intents and purposes.
For all intents and purposes.
FOR ALL intents and purposes.
FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES.



We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.


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#64 Mar 27 2009 at 8:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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JiggaJ wrote:
No fight goes from smooth to "O sh*t" in a matter of seconds,
They're called "Oh shit" moments because they happen instantly.
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#65 Mar 27 2009 at 8:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lobivopis wrote:
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I'll agree with this, but I have to throw out that this is a catch-22. The reason Mercy Stroke doesn't command awesome respect at HNM is two fold. First, it means building TP with dagger, which compared to the 2 handers is inefficient DoT. Even Mandau will hit for low numbers and by the time a thief has 100% tp on HNM the 2 hander could have tp'd faster and done 5-10 times more damage, leaving a noticable gap in DoT. WS aren't everything so this hurts us.


Can be fixed easily.

(insert name of ability here): Increases your weapon's damage but lowers your attack speed.

Increases your weapon's DMG rating and delay by 50%. Lasts 5 minutes with a 5 minute recast.



Edited, Mar 28th 2009 12:44am by Lobivopis


it's called "footwork", and it sucks.
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#67 Mar 28 2009 at 5:44 AM Rating: Good
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First of all, Kirin should be dead before the first summon is up.

Secondly, as was said, Mandau's poison proc isnt the reason Suzaku will wipe any LS, it was Chainspell, which you should have a premeditated course of action (usually Shadowbind) to counter Chainspell. If Suzaku is wiping anyone without having used Chainspell, that is epic epic epic fail.


I know most LSs can do this.

But there is some really really really horrible LSs out there can't even kill kirin the kiting way.

And to tell them to be organized enough to do burns?
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#69 Mar 28 2009 at 11:57 AM Rating: Default
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milich wrote:
it's called "footwork", and it sucks.


MNK doesn't use footwork on HNM.

THF isn't allowed to melee HNM.

See the difference?


Edited, Mar 28th 2009 5:04pm by Lobivopis
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#70 Mar 28 2009 at 12:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lobivopis wrote:
milich wrote:
it's called "footwork", and it sucks.


It sucks on MNK because MNK is already a perfect job and doesn't need anything.

Basically this would turn your daggers into axes. Lower TP gain but you hit harder. You'd only use it endgame stuff not merits.



Edited, Mar 28th 2009 5:01pm by Lobivopis


it really would fail... as you may or may not know, base damage has nothing to do with ATT/DEF, which is the primarily thing lowering damage vs HNM/gods. you would be better served TPing fast and WSing more (especially with SA-if-possible and TA) than TPing slow and WSing less. the base damage increase would end up losing to the quicker TP.

this is also why footwork fails for MNK.
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#71 Mar 28 2009 at 12:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Im not nearly as concerned with out damage on HNM, but the speed that we force-feed HNMs TP while doing so. On some mobs this is completely irrelivant, but others (Especcially when low-man) Thf tp feed is rediculous. Its about the same reason you dont see Nin puffing out their chest on HNM damage. With enough atk buffs, they can hurt things just like anyone else including Thf regarding DoT. (trouble is Thf is often stuffed into the Blm party or tank party either to accomplice mages or to make room for a "DD" in the DD parties. Therefore we miss out on melee buffs exacerbating the problem) 1 handed speed freak jobs like Thf combined with the rather retarded way Mob TP gain is calculated just feed to much tp for the damage to be worthwhile. Add to that Mnk and Nin have access to penance and/or incredible amounts of subtle blow. Thf has neither in any remotly decent DD setup. (yay melee in dragon set -_-)

In any situation where TP matters, Thf is banned. I dont need to be the top of the parse on HNM. We are quite useful otherwise, but i AM tired of being told to go /sam and get swapped in for a WS whenevever someone dies only to be booted after i blow my load. 60tp/3 min. Takes 6 min to do 1 stupid WS then run away. Its completely rediculous.

But then again, when we need DD i just show up on Drg. But when im needed to TH whore on some bitch TP move mob, we start to cast lots on who has to be the TH whore that day. Much like going to salvage and only getting Hands/Weapon for the entire run. I do not like to play a game where I dont have fun. I dont care about the damage so much because were adequate, but being unable to participate due to horrid TP mechanics is not my idea of fun.

SE gave us feint and accomp/collaberator to encourage keeping Thf in an alli during HNM, but hate stealing unfortunately puts us in the Blm/Tank parties instead of DD parties. It was a change of good intentions, but not quite the end result we as Thfs were aiming for.
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#72 Mar 28 2009 at 12:50 PM Rating: Decent
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I really can't see any type of situation where "feeding TP" actually matters. If you have but 3 people who are attacking the mob it's going to have TP in under ~15 seconds regardless.
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#73 Mar 28 2009 at 3:28 PM Rating: Good
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JiggaJ wrote:
Mistress Melphina wrote:

Nidhogg can....30 seconds is more than enough. If she takes out a main tank and begins hurricane wing (or just eating) your ally it can very well mean the end of you. This is more than enough to take out a 7-8 man small team group that would otherwise be capable of handling the scenario.

If that is your argument, I offer the following solution. When the first tank was killed, the melee's should have turned around. At that very moment, it became recovery mode, not kill mode. Ideally there would also be a second tank. I cant offer my own experience tanking Nidhogg, however considering it has been said many times that Fafnir is inarguably more difficult than Nidhogg, I'm almost certain 1 PLD can hold Nidhogg for 30 seconds. Lets presume this is possibly the worst case scenario: Hurricane wing, '2hr', double attacks and drops tank #1. Ok, that's pretty bad, right? Even worse case scenario: all of PLD#2's timers are down (Flash Sentinel Invincinble UtsiNi UtsuIchi Reprisal)...which I don't believe to be possible since PLD#2 would be the one with hate and dead, but this is make believe...between Nidhogg being Elegied and slowed (and if its not you're doing it wrong), they should still be able to keep alive long enough via cures until their Timers are up, and the poison wears off.

If you're fighting Nid with 7/8 people, you dont have a "main" tank, you have -a- tank, and thats -a- tank whos going to be geared and skilled well enough to get 1shot, as Nid has no means to really one shot anyone.


Way to miss the point that she was making. If you were to use Mandau in a low man situation and the only tank died while poison from the dagger is active there's nothing you can do until it wears. End of story.

JiggaJ wrote:
Hozu wrote:
Tell that to the LS that tried to take Kirin from us after we were having trouble w/ the lessers and Suzaku wiping almost their entire LS in a matter of seconds. Yes, the lesser Suzaku.

First of all, Kirin should be dead before the first summon is up.

Secondly, as was said, Mandau's poison proc isnt the reason Suzaku will wipe any LS, it was Chainspell, which you should have a premeditated course of action (usually Shadowbind) to counter Chainspell. If Suzaku is wiping anyone without having used Chainspell, that is epic epic epic fail.


First off not every LS has the resources to TP burn Kirin. Secondly this happened before TP burning Kirin was even a popular option. What happened was it used Chainspell and got off 3-4 Firaga IIIs in a row in about ~2 seconds. Try and survive that.

JiggaJ wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
JiggaJ wrote:
No fight goes from smooth to "O sh*t" in a matter of seconds,
They're called "Oh shit" moments because they happen instantly.

Once again, there is nothing in this game that goes from controlled to "O sh*t" out of nowhere. The only thing that MAY qualify as such is Astral Flow or an early Mijin, but even then you're expecting it and ready to act.


I think the above situation fits the bill for an "Oh sh*t" moment. Especially for a LS incapable of TP burning Kirin.
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#75 Mar 28 2009 at 5:45 PM Rating: Decent
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We chainspell stun our lesser suzaku's chainspell. :p
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#76 Mar 28 2009 at 7:58 PM Rating: Good
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SE gave us feint and accomp/collaberator to encourage keeping Thf in an alli during HNM, but hate stealing unfortunately puts us in the Blm/Tank parties instead of DD parties. It was a change of good intentions, but not quite the end result we as Thfs were aiming for.



See, that's what I mean by giving us another sort of strategy on high def mobs. MNK, while the option fails, still has a choice to deal damage reliably. Major deference is MNK can actually hit pretty hard while producing low tp, while THF is stuck with "TP FED" mentality on endgame mobs. (again, 600+ atk and hit for 10s!?)

We don't really have a better option than our daggers on HNMs. We can't rely on bolts because enfeebles don't stack on most endgame mobs. We can't turn to guns because of how cannon shells only stacks to 12, and then we need to worry about the cost. The best option we are considered in an endgame scenerio is to steal hate from mages, an occasional SA/TA for about as much crit as a regular 2h's regular crit on hnms, magically build tp with sj/C+ RATK, or just hit the mob once for the TH.

I understand some people /RNG to make themselves a better job on TPing on HNMs. Unfortunately, that's the only other better option for THFs. We don't even have access to higher tier ranged weapons(obow anyone?), so..where's the damage?
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#77 Mar 29 2009 at 10:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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Haletxamehk wrote:
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SE gave us feint and accomp/collaberator to encourage keeping Thf in an alli during HNM, but hate stealing unfortunately puts us in the Blm/Tank parties instead of DD parties. It was a change of good intentions, but not quite the end result we as Thfs were aiming for.



See, that's what I mean by giving us another sort of strategy on high def mobs. MNK, while the option fails, still has a choice to deal damage reliably. Major deference is MNK can actually hit pretty hard while producing low tp, while THF is stuck with "TP FED" mentality on endgame mobs. (again, 600+ atk and hit for 10s!?)

We don't really have a better option than our daggers on HNMs. We can't rely on bolts because enfeebles don't stack on most endgame mobs. We can't turn to guns because of how cannon shells only stacks to 12, and then we need to worry about the cost. The best option we are considered in an endgame scenerio is to steal hate from mages, an occasional SA/TA for about as much crit as a regular 2h's regular crit on hnms, magically build tp with sj/C+ RATK, or just hit the mob once for the TH.

I understand some people /RNG to make themselves a better job on TPing on HNMs. Unfortunately, that's the only other better option for THFs. We don't even have access to higher tier ranged weapons(obow anyone?), so..where's the damage?


footwork doesn't deal damage reliably (or at all) on anything fists can't damage better. footwork is basically a disaster. though if you're talking about chi blast i guess i could say "fair enough".

just saying, if you're hoping for footwork (base damage increase, lower delay) to allow THF to melee HNM, stop, because it's not going to do that. HNM limit damage via DEF and EVA. you could have a d150 weapon, if your ATT is too low it won't matter.
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#78 Mar 29 2009 at 2:38 PM Rating: Default
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Raise the Dmg on M.Kris ffs...Lower the /recast on Collab...and A+ Dagger(i mean come on)
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#79 Mar 29 2009 at 3:04 PM Rating: Default
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milich wrote:


just saying, if you're hoping for footwork (base damage increase, lower delay) to allow THF to melee HNM, stop, because it's not going to do that. HNM limit damage via DEF and EVA. you could have a d150 weapon, if your ATT is too low it won't matter.


Easy enough to fix that.

Increases DMG and delay 50% changes weapon to 2H formula but doesn't work if you have an offhand weapon equipped (will work with a shield offhand) Will not work with hasso/saigan.

Hell make it lvl 30 and share the wealth too.

Edited, Mar 29th 2009 8:06pm by Lobivopis
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#80 Mar 29 2009 at 8:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lobivopis wrote:
milich wrote:


just saying, if you're hoping for footwork (base damage increase, lower delay) to allow THF to melee HNM, stop, because it's not going to do that. HNM limit damage via DEF and EVA. you could have a d150 weapon, if your ATT is too low it won't matter.


Easy enough to fix that.

Increases DMG and delay 50% changes weapon to 2H formula but doesn't work if you have an offhand weapon equipped (will work with a shield offhand) Will not work with hasso/saigan.

Hell make it lvl 30 and share the wealth too.

Edited, Mar 29th 2009 8:06pm by Lobivopis


hey, i have an idea. it's a new item:

ammo: "the job equalizer"
DEF+5 R.ATT+2
when equipped, everyone in alliance has access to all the same weapons, WSs, job abilities and spells. also, infinite HP and gil.

sounds pretty sweet, doesn't it?
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#81 Mar 29 2009 at 9:02 PM Rating: Decent
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sounds pretty sweet, doesn't it?


Only if I'm the only one who gets one. Smiley: nod

Edited, Mar 30th 2009 1:02am by Deadgye
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#82 Mar 29 2009 at 9:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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The One and Only Deadgye wrote:
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sounds pretty sweet, doesn't it?


Only if I'm the only one who gets one. Smiley: nod

Edited, Mar 30th 2009 1:02am by Deadgye


don't you have a mandau? that's close enough, really.
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#83 Mar 29 2009 at 9:37 PM Rating: Good
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Whatever did happen to the Perfect Dodge fix? I thought SE was going to do something to improve it. Oh well...

A stun effect on Mug would be awesome. As it stands, it is just a fast claim with minimal range tool. The gil you get on most things is pathetic. At least there's sky...

As for A+ on dagger and other damage boosts, yes, would be nice. I think a lot of thieves remember being irked by SAM/THF who used to taunt thieves with the line "we can do your job better than you do!" Of course, they meant landing hate on the tank. Thankfully SE gave us Accomplice/Collaborator. If no damage boost, I would like to see Accomplice and Collaborator be split apart. That would be great and further our usefulness as managers of hate. Also, give them more range. As someone else mentioned, it is annoying to have to "hump" the hate off of a mage.

Ha ha, here I am dreaming. How about adding a dagger with base damage 35 and treasure hunter+2? That thief's knife and its damage of 28 has really gotten old. Instead of making up a completely new dagger, maybe have an interesting quest to make your old thief's knife a thief's knife +1. I don't think one more treasure hunter would be game breaking. I know many thieves that get mad when our treasure hunter is referred to as treasure hider in those events where the drop rate is bad no matter what (e.g. Salvage).

Yes, I think a new thief's knife would be enough to make me happy. Thief is already a pretty awesome job as is. Yup yup.

Oh, thought of one last thing - make a mob that drops something that sells for decent gil to NPCs and DON'T nerf it! I am sick of SE destroying my farming! I most miss those demon weapons. Castle Zvahl Baileys was one of my favorite spots. ; ;
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#84 Mar 29 2009 at 10:29 PM Rating: Decent
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THF Knife +1 w/ TH +2 on it would be sweet.

Higher cap on Marksmenship as well.

April update is inching closer.
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#85 Mar 30 2009 at 6:16 PM Rating: Decent
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I think Square "Just will give all jobs a Little boost" on something, they dont will change the game very much but.

If they just will give a Job ability, What about a Job ability increase Attack power and drecrease the evasion, But the attack % be same as berserk.

5 mins recast -> Duration 3 Mins.

If square really wish change the things maybe. change Dancing Edge, EVI Stats calculator.

DE 30% DEX 40% CHR -> New DE 50% DEX 50% STR
EVI 30% DEX -> New EVI 50% STR 50 DEX.

With this our Thiefs can do more damage on WS and we will have attack power job ability.


My "fear now" is they give another big update for 2 handers, if this happen Thief, puppetmaster, Monk, Ninja, and Dual wield Deal damagers and H2H, we will have serious problems and every will say "LOL THIEF"? i hope they this time dont lose the mind with 2 handers.
#86 Mar 30 2009 at 7:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Shakca wrote:
If square really wish change the things maybe. change Dancing Edge, EVI Stats calculator.

DE 30% DEX 40% CHR -> New DE 50% DEX 50% STR
EVI 30% DEX -> New EVI 50% STR 50 DEX.

With this our Thiefs can do more damage on WS and we will have attack power job ability.


I really don't like your dancing edge idea because I also have Dancer leveled and I rely on that CHR to do decent damage. -.-

How about just raising all of the endgame daggers' base damage again? That worked once before. :)

Seriously though, A+ dagger, yes please.

Edited, Mar 30th 2009 11:19pm by Yenecol
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#87 Mar 30 2009 at 8:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm kinda surprised so much debate is going on about damage at kings. I'm actually in agreement with Milich here. I can't foresee my dagger dealing large damage in a single normal melee strike. All jobs are NOT created equal, if you want to do large damage at kings you are free to level one of the melees that can. I like thief in its role. I do not believe we need any "major" fixes at all. The adjustment to trick attack and dagger skill are one thing, but that's about all I'd take in damage. If s-e adjusted thief I'd want a fix similar to the hate line alteration or utility abilities (like feint). I don't view thief as a straight up DD, it is not. I view it as a utility/support DD and this is what s-e carved me out to be.

The point of tp spam at HNM was made and THIS is the limiting factor. When I did kings I wasn't a main melee because 2 handers gave les tp feed per 100% round and did much better DoT and ws both. However EVERY job has things they lack, we are no exception, and I like it this way because it defines each job. I dare say black mages feel worse off than we because on many HNM's their place is no longer clearly defined, their superior damage is based on MP which is limited, whereas tp burn is more efficient. Paladins don't get much love anywhere outside of major events, summoners are in the same boat. Similarly dark knights, sams, etc etc may not solo as well. That same black mage or smn can solo 2 mobs with ease that a 1 hander would struggle heavily upon with just 1. My role is unique and I don't want to try and make it something it isn't. Damage isn't all I bring to the table, and I no longer care just how high I can spike it. When I do events now like salvage I turn off my filters so I can read chat better, I don't even know how much I hit for but by seeing the hp drop I know it's respectable. I do my job and it works well.

Simply put, thief is a very versatile and strong job. I have some of the most elite gear there is for thief and I don't always end up on top, but my party members are glad to have me. Accomplice/collaborator are really nice, I've said this before but it's true. In events where it's applicable acid bolts are a great help, TA + sa + stacked or solo ws, solo crits, evasion etc.


Summary: There is more to FFXI than just kings and high end mobs. I have accepted that I am not the best there, even to the point of being small on the damage scale, I have other roles (and Th4 isn't the only one). I am better at certain events than others, just like every other job, and I'd rather not lose this. More damage is one thing, but I like being me as I am. I'd be more than happy to see a fix along the utility dd line though, reverse collaborator would be really fun O.o. Seriously combining that with feint and collab/accomp would allow me to be the undisputed master of enmity, and that's a fix I'd take over more damage at kings any day.

Edited, Mar 31st 2009 12:32am by Melphina
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#88 Mar 30 2009 at 8:31 PM Rating: Default
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Shakca wrote:

I think Square "Just will give all jobs a Little boost" on something, they dont will change the game very much but.

If they just will give a Job ability, What about a Job ability increase Attack power and drecrease the evasion, But the attack % be same as berserk.

5 mins recast -> Duration 3 Mins.

If square really wish change the things maybe. change Dancing Edge, EVI Stats calculator.

DE 30% DEX 40% CHR -> New DE 50% DEX 50% STR


They would have to increase Mercy Stroke to STR75% ftp 3.5 or DE would outdamage it.
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#89Shakca, Posted: Mar 30 2009 at 9:49 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You are righ on this too, In this game there so Many things for we do, Like farm, craft, exp party, exp solo, Mining, fishing. etc
#90 Mar 31 2009 at 12:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Mug that's worth something

another TH trait

collaborator/accomplice hate steal increase, 50%, all.

Extended merits for triple attack.

Otherwise thf is sweet, sam needs quadruple attack job trait though!
#91Shakca, Posted: Mar 31 2009 at 2:55 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I really dont understand this part, lol But if you want SE quadruple attack job for samurai?
#92 Mar 31 2009 at 6:35 AM Rating: Good
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Mog Satchel


Mmmmmmm up to 80 more slots, our dream!
Can carry all our solo, party, & evasion gear all at once now!!
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#93 Mar 31 2009 at 10:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Not I! I use 64 for just party gear.
#94 Mar 31 2009 at 3:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mistress Melphina wrote:
I don't view thief as a straight up DD, it is not. I view it as a utility/support DD and this is what s-e carved me out to be.


This. This is why, imo, thf is one of the most interesting jobs in the game, along with things like rdm, cor, and blu, because they do not fit into one single, clearly defined role, we do lots of little tricks that are utterly unique, and keep us valuable. There is no "auto-attack and afk" version of thf, unless you're only there for TH (in which case, you're not a thf, you're a th whore). And it is why I don't want to see any major changes to thf, or even many minor ones; we are already a strong, well-rounded job, with a lot of skills and equip at our disposal to let us do a lot of different things, and imho, most of the people wanting huge changes to thf are those who have not learnt how to use what we already have.

And to that stupid, sexist idea that how and why we play thf is based on what's between our legs - @#%^ off. And @#%^ off to the idea that only 2-handed DD can do well on endgame. While I can't talk for Kings/Ground/Aht Urghan HNM etc., I can for Sky/Dyna/Sea/other stuff, and if they're wiping the floor with you, it probably means that you suck, and it's not the job that's at fault, but yourself.

Edited, Mar 31st 2009 11:36pm by MithraDooom
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#95 Mar 31 2009 at 6:48 PM Rating: Decent
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intimmydation wrote:
Mog Satchel


Mmmmmmm up to 80 more slots, our dream!
Can carry all our solo, party, & evasion gear all at once now!!


/hurray :D

Eanna wrote:
Not I! I use 64 for just party gear.]


You may carry 64 pieces of pt gear but with the satchel you will be 64/160 which gives you 96 more spaces for your solo/evasion gear, extra tools/bolts, all kinds of items, food, ect. If you ask me this is the absolute best update thf is getting! I can't wait ^^


had to fix quote :3

Edited, Mar 31st 2009 10:49pm by Spurius
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Merits - HP: 8 Str: 1 Dex: 2 Dagger: 8 Marksmanship: 4 Evasion: 4 Parrying: 4 Crit Rate: 4 Spell Interruption rate: 4 Sneak Attack: 5 Triple Attack: 5 Assassin's Charge: 4 Feint: 5 Aura Steal: 1

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#96 Mar 31 2009 at 7:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I think if I bring only the absolute essentials I can only use ~42 gear slots for a merit party. Normally I find myself at ~60 though. :x I think I'll only consider buying a Smiley: moogle-sack if I plan to level bonecraft using colibri and imps.

Edited, Mar 31st 2009 11:01pm by Deadgye
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#97 Mar 31 2009 at 7:48 PM Rating: Good
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I like how MithraDoom phrased the last part Smiley: lol


Perhaps with all the recent discussions of gear and merit and DD and such over the past few years it's become easy to lose focus on thief's role in the game. We used to feel inferior because everybody gave us the shirking to events no matter how well we played or were geared, even as simple as merits. We were viewed as a weak job and we didn't like that, but time has healed this image. It took a while, but with the dagger adjustment post 68+, assassin, collaborator/accomplice, Feint, a better understanding of mechanics as well as more thieves actually HAVING homam + heca (this matters, and required time for said gear to come into existence from many runs) we have been able to fix this.

Thief still holds the same role as it always did and I like that. The job of the thief appealed to me back as a newbie player. The hate line alteration fascinated me, as did huge spike numbers. Well guess what? we can still do that!! The only thing I have any problems on is mobs level 85-90+, but I can still help with stuff here, everywhere else is fair game. When I stack a TA + DE or SA + de it will always outperform the other melee's spike weaponskill damage, piercing or no given a large enough sample size. That's just how stacking works, and I still enjoy doing this. I spiked a SATA + ass charge/hide dancing edge to 2459 at birds a while ago and it made people /jawdrop. On salvage gears I can push 2000+ when geared, in besieged I can end up tanking >.>. It may lose efficiency to trying to go all out, but it's fun and it helps with stuff. ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM damage is never attainable, I stopped trying and enjoy what I do.

I will reiterate that status bolts have not gone away, nor has spike damage. I advocate the bomb parts at merit because the bolts are useless at both camps. At events I will shoot bolts if I can hit. Does this lower my own DoT by not having dagger drawn? yes. Is it a worthwhile tradeoff?? HECK YES!! Knocking off 12.5% defense for the other melees just makes them smile, I use feint liberally too. I LIKE seeing dark knights/monks/samurais/rangers/blu's/drgs in action, I LIKE seeing them go nuts and tear stuff up, and my presence helps that happen. If I take damage and shoot a few bloodys I'm sure the mages will appreciate the effect of me spamming cure II, even if they still need to step in it saved them MP and that matters.

I said I view thief as a utility/support DD and that's fine. A good thief is the grease that makes all the gears spin smoothly at events, helping everyone hit harder, self cures, controlling hate, blink tanking, spike DD, respectable DoT to get there, and I'll say it.. sac pulling and TH adding. Treasure hunter is NOT a bad trait, I'm sure you want stuff for yourself and it's awesome at farming (I like my droprates everywhere I go thank you very much!!). Reraise is cheap, mages will R2 or R3 when applicable, at events death happens anyway (sometimes in mass quantity). And the coup de gra, sleep boolts act as an emergency OHSHI-STUN. I've stopped a few thundaga III's in my time with a lucky bolt so even then, that's awesome and people will thank me for it. I'm a good dd, but nobody cares if I'm the BEST DD. I don't have to be, and when other melee's have no purpose EXCEPT DD it stands to reason that my place is right where it should be. And to boot... if I ever get Mandau the fun just gets even greater.

Edited, Mar 31st 2009 11:57pm by Melphina
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#98 Apr 01 2009 at 6:38 AM Rating: Default
I am not sure what everyone else wants, but some of what I would like is:

1. A+ to dagger for the thief job. Why? Well lets see, if this is your main weapon how come your not so good with it. All jobs should have an A+ with thier main weapon.

2. Lower recast timers on Mug and Steal. Why? Well your a thief what good are you if your job name is the same as your description. But you can only Steal every 5 minutes and Mug every 15 minutes. Would a summoner still be a summoner if he could only call the avatar every 5/15 minutes? Nobody would pick the job if it was that way.

3. Aura Steal should have it's own timer and effect. What I mean is if you use this ability you should be able to use Steal right after if you like. Also if you are trying to steal the mobs special effect why do you steal an item sometimes.

4. Mug should have a stun effect. Being mugged means to be beaten and robbed for some sort of currency. This explains itself.

5. Hide change please. Make it so hide grants sneak,invisible & deodorize status. What good is hiding if you can be found?

6. Perfect Dodge change please. Its not perfect because you can be hit. Pretty lame as 2 hours go imo. I can understand being hit by magic because well it's magic duh. But ranged attacks, come on! You should be able to dodge those also.

7. Finally maybe thief could use some kick ass guns/bullets that have bolt effects on them for a change of pace. Or open up more bolt options to be able to use as thief. Such as Bronze, Crossbow and Holy bolts for thief to use. Maybe even make elemental bolts like thunder bolts, ice bolts make that crossbow more effective when fighting slimes as a thief. Just saying someone somewhere will find a use for it

Edited, Apr 1st 2009 1:59pm by DerekW

Edited, Apr 1st 2009 2:01pm by DerekW
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#99 Apr 16 2009 at 2:07 PM Rating: Default
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Im gonna have 2 agree with everything especially the whole pt evasion bonus,
but the big thing for me isnt really a thf only thing but has 2 to with daggers.

They shouldnt have made 2 WS that do exactly the same thing. im just like wtf??
MP steal and MP drain its only for jobs with MP and there isnt many ppl who use a dagger with a job that has MP anyways... they shoulda made it like MP steal and HP drain... a sh*t load of other jobs have the ability 2 heal themselfs but not thf and SE has a chance to give them that ability...it would be sooo nice 2 have the ability 2 get some HP back... when i first saw that there was 2 WS that basically did the same thing i thought it was a typo but i guess im wrong...

but i could be just be getting worked up for nothing ^^
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#100 Apr 16 2009 at 2:10 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
and A+ Dagger(i mean come on)


COMPLETELY AGREE A+ DAGGER WOULD BE THE sh*t!!!
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#101 Apr 16 2009 at 3:50 PM Rating: Good
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BruteMoosey wrote:
it would be sooo nice 2 have the ability 2 get some HP back...


bloody bolts say hi.
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