The "What THFs want from SE" ThreadFollow

Basically, your "problems" are solved by giving THF Gekko.

Mercy Stroke is just as good as any other DD's WS on HNM, and it still doesn't command any particularly awesome respect.

i'm confused... what HNMs are you guys talking about that aren't just burned down like a merit mob (but with a tank, usually PLD/NIN or NIN/DRK)? because i'd bet money that there's less than 5 in the game (excluding mobs that no one melees--incidentally, THFs can make themselves useful in those fights while SAMs and such can't).

all "just make my multipliers bigger" ideas are bad. without exception. "wahhh i want to parse higher."

Can be fixed easily.

(insert name of ability here): Increases your weapon's damage but lowers your attack speed.

Increases your weapon's DMG rating and delay by 50%. Lasts 5 minutes with a 5 minute recast.



Edited, Mar 28th 2009 12:44am by Lobivopis

Mandau's poison should be changed so that it does not wake a mob up.

Edited, Mar 28th 2009 1:05am by Lobivopis

Nidhogg can....30 seconds is more than enough. If she takes out a main tank and begins hurricane wing (or just eating) your ally it can very well mean the end of you. This is more than enough to take out a 7-8 man small team group that would otherwise be capable of handling the scenario.

Edited, Mar 28th 2009 12:13am by Melphina

They're called "Oh shit" moments because they happen instantly.

I know most LSs can do this.

But there is some really really really horrible LSs out there can't even kill kirin the kiting way.

And to tell them to be organized enough to do burns?

it really would fail... as you may or may not know, base damage has nothing to do with ATT/DEF, which is the primarily thing lowering damage vs HNM/gods. you would be better served TPing fast and WSing more (especially with SA-if-possible and TA) than TPing slow and WSing less. the base damage increase would end up losing to the quicker TP.

this is also why footwork fails for MNK.

I really can't see any type of situation where "feeding TP" actually matters. If you have but 3 people who are attacking the mob it's going to have TP in under ~15 seconds regardless.

We chainspell stun our lesser suzaku's chainspell. :p

footwork doesn't deal damage reliably (or at all) on anything fists can't damage better. footwork is basically a disaster. though if you're talking about chi blast i guess i could say "fair enough".

just saying, if you're hoping for footwork (base damage increase, lower delay) to allow THF to melee HNM, stop, because it's not going to do that. HNM limit damage via DEF and EVA. you could have a d150 weapon, if your ATT is too low it won't matter.

Easy enough to fix that.

Increases DMG and delay 50% changes weapon to 2H formula but doesn't work if you have an offhand weapon equipped (will work with a shield offhand) Will not work with hasso/saigan.

Hell make it lvl 30 and share the wealth too.

Edited, Mar 29th 2009 8:06pm by Lobivopis

Only if I'm the only one who gets one.

Edited, Mar 30th 2009 1:02am by Deadgye

Whatever did happen to the Perfect Dodge fix? I thought SE was going to do something to improve it. Oh well...

A stun effect on Mug would be awesome. As it stands, it is just a fast claim with minimal range tool. The gil you get on most things is pathetic. At least there's sky...

As for A+ on dagger and other damage boosts, yes, would be nice. I think a lot of thieves remember being irked by SAM/THF who used to taunt thieves with the line "we can do your job better than you do!" Of course, they meant landing hate on the tank. Thankfully SE gave us Accomplice/Collaborator. If no damage boost, I would like to see Accomplice and Collaborator be split apart. That would be great and further our usefulness as managers of hate. Also, give them more range. As someone else mentioned, it is annoying to have to "hump" the hate off of a mage.

Ha ha, here I am dreaming. How about adding a dagger with base damage 35 and treasure hunter+2? That thief's knife and its damage of 28 has really gotten old. Instead of making up a completely new dagger, maybe have an interesting quest to make your old thief's knife a thief's knife +1. I don't think one more treasure hunter would be game breaking. I know many thieves that get mad when our treasure hunter is referred to as treasure hider in those events where the drop rate is bad no matter what (e.g. Salvage).

Yes, I think a new thief's knife would be enough to make me happy. Thief is already a pretty awesome job as is. Yup yup.

Oh, thought of one last thing - make a mob that drops something that sells for decent gil to NPCs and DON'T nerf it! I am sick of SE destroying my farming! I most miss those demon weapons. Castle Zvahl Baileys was one of my favorite spots. ; ;

I think Square "Just will give all jobs a Little boost" on something, they dont will change the game very much but.

If they just will give a Job ability, What about a Job ability increase Attack power and drecrease the evasion, But the attack % be same as berserk.

5 mins recast -> Duration 3 Mins.

If square really wish change the things maybe. change Dancing Edge, EVI Stats calculator.

DE 30% DEX 40% CHR -> New DE 50% DEX 50% STR
EVI 30% DEX -> New EVI 50% STR 50 DEX.

With this our Thiefs can do more damage on WS and we will have attack power job ability.


My "fear now" is they give another big update for 2 handers, if this happen Thief, puppetmaster, Monk, Ninja, and Dual wield Deal damagers and H2H, we will have serious problems and every will say "LOL THIEF"? i hope they this time dont lose the mind with 2 handers.

I'm kinda surprised so much debate is going on about damage at kings. I'm actually in agreement with Milich here. I can't foresee my dagger dealing large damage in a single normal melee strike. All jobs are NOT created equal, if you want to do large damage at kings you are free to level one of the melees that can. I like thief in its role. I do not believe we need any "major" fixes at all. The adjustment to trick attack and dagger skill are one thing, but that's about all I'd take in damage. If s-e adjusted thief I'd want a fix similar to the hate line alteration or utility abilities (like feint). I don't view thief as a straight up DD, it is not. I view it as a utility/support DD and this is what s-e carved me out to be.

The point of tp spam at HNM was made and THIS is the limiting factor. When I did kings I wasn't a main melee because 2 handers gave les tp feed per 100% round and did much better DoT and ws both. However EVERY job has things they lack, we are no exception, and I like it this way because it defines each job. I dare say black mages feel worse off than we because on many HNM's their place is no longer clearly defined, their superior damage is based on MP which is limited, whereas tp burn is more efficient. Paladins don't get much love anywhere outside of major events, summoners are in the same boat. Similarly dark knights, sams, etc etc may not solo as well. That same black mage or smn can solo 2 mobs with ease that a 1 hander would struggle heavily upon with just 1. My role is unique and I don't want to try and make it something it isn't. Damage isn't all I bring to the table, and I no longer care just how high I can spike it. When I do events now like salvage I turn off my filters so I can read chat better, I don't even know how much I hit for but by seeing the hp drop I know it's respectable. I do my job and it works well.

Simply put, thief is a very versatile and strong job. I have some of the most elite gear there is for thief and I don't always end up on top, but my party members are glad to have me. Accomplice/collaborator are really nice, I've said this before but it's true. In events where it's applicable acid bolts are a great help, TA + sa + stacked or solo ws, solo crits, evasion etc.


Summary: There is more to FFXI than just kings and high end mobs. I have accepted that I am not the best there, even to the point of being small on the damage scale, I have other roles (and Th4 isn't the only one). I am better at certain events than others, just like every other job, and I'd rather not lose this. More damage is one thing, but I like being me as I am. I'd be more than happy to see a fix along the utility dd line though, reverse collaborator would be really fun O.o. Seriously combining that with feint and collab/accomp would allow me to be the undisputed master of enmity, and that's a fix I'd take over more damage at kings any day.

Edited, Mar 31st 2009 12:32am by Melphina

Not I! I use 64 for just party gear.

/hurray :D



You may carry 64 pieces of pt gear but with the satchel you will be 64/160 which gives you 96 more spaces for your solo/evasion gear, extra tools/bolts, all kinds of items, food, ect. If you ask me this is the absolute best update thf is getting! I can't wait ^^


had to fix quote :3

Edited, Mar 31st 2009 10:49pm by Spurius

I like how MithraDoom phrased the last part


Perhaps with all the recent discussions of gear and merit and DD and such over the past few years it's become easy to lose focus on thief's role in the game. We used to feel inferior because everybody gave us the shirking to events no matter how well we played or were geared, even as simple as merits. We were viewed as a weak job and we didn't like that, but time has healed this image. It took a while, but with the dagger adjustment post 68+, assassin, collaborator/accomplice, Feint, a better understanding of mechanics as well as more thieves actually HAVING homam + heca (this matters, and required time for said gear to come into existence from many runs) we have been able to fix this.

Thief still holds the same role as it always did and I like that. The job of the thief appealed to me back as a newbie player. The hate line alteration fascinated me, as did huge spike numbers. Well guess what? we can still do that!! The only thing I have any problems on is mobs level 85-90+, but I can still help with stuff here, everywhere else is fair game. When I stack a TA + DE or SA + de it will always outperform the other melee's spike weaponskill damage, piercing or no given a large enough sample size. That's just how stacking works, and I still enjoy doing this. I spiked a SATA + ass charge/hide dancing edge to 2459 at birds a while ago and it made people /jawdrop. On salvage gears I can push 2000+ when geared, in besieged I can end up tanking >.>. It may lose efficiency to trying to go all out, but it's fun and it helps with stuff. ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM damage is never attainable, I stopped trying and enjoy what I do.

I will reiterate that status bolts have not gone away, nor has spike damage. I advocate the bomb parts at merit because the bolts are useless at both camps. At events I will shoot bolts if I can hit. Does this lower my own DoT by not having dagger drawn? yes. Is it a worthwhile tradeoff?? HECK YES!! Knocking off 12.5% defense for the other melees just makes them smile, I use feint liberally too. I LIKE seeing dark knights/monks/samurais/rangers/blu's/drgs in action, I LIKE seeing them go nuts and tear stuff up, and my presence helps that happen. If I take damage and shoot a few bloodys I'm sure the mages will appreciate the effect of me spamming cure II, even if they still need to step in it saved them MP and that matters.

I said I view thief as a utility/support DD and that's fine. A good thief is the grease that makes all the gears spin smoothly at events, helping everyone hit harder, self cures, controlling hate, blink tanking, spike DD, respectable DoT to get there, and I'll say it.. sac pulling and TH adding. Treasure hunter is NOT a bad trait, I'm sure you want stuff for yourself and it's awesome at farming (I like my droprates everywhere I go thank you very much!!). Reraise is cheap, mages will R2 or R3 when applicable, at events death happens anyway (sometimes in mass quantity). And the coup de gra, sleep boolts act as an emergency OHSHI-STUN. I've stopped a few thundaga III's in my time with a lucky bolt so even then, that's awesome and people will thank me for it. I'm a good dd, but nobody cares if I'm the BEST DD. I don't have to be, and when other melee's have no purpose EXCEPT DD it stands to reason that my place is right where it should be. And to boot... if I ever get Mandau the fun just gets even greater.

Edited, Mar 31st 2009 11:57pm by Melphina

Im gonna have 2 agree with everything especially the whole pt evasion bonus,
but the big thing for me isnt really a thf only thing but has 2 to with daggers.

They shouldnt have made 2 WS that do exactly the same thing. im just like wtf??
MP steal and MP drain its only for jobs with MP and there isnt many ppl who use a dagger with a job that has MP anyways... they shoulda made it like MP steal and HP drain... a sh*t load of other jobs have the ability 2 heal themselfs but not thf and SE has a chance to give them that ability...it would be sooo nice 2 have the ability 2 get some HP back... when i first saw that there was 2 WS that basically did the same thing i thought it was a typo but i guess im wrong...

but i could be just be getting worked up for nothing ^^

bloody bolts say hi.