The "What THFs want from SE" ThreadFollow

After watching a Youtube video about Brain Crack (NSFW only due to him mentioning the Blue Nudity in Watchmen). I decided i want to unload my ideas for everyone to hear about how SE can improve the THF job.

1st: New JAs and Job Tweeks

Let me get the easy ones out of the way, Fix Perfect Dodge!! Make it so everyone in the party gets the evasion bonus. Or Infinate SA on the first hit of every attack for 30s, so we can accumulate enough hate to actually tank during our evasion bonus.

Give us a Reverse Accomplice/Collaborator, i made a thread about this a while back. But basically it would let us place our current hate on another player. 25% on a 1m timer or 50% on a 5m timer, both would be tied to Accomplice and Collaborator so that you cant spam them together.

Mug, 15m recast? what were they thinking. Put it at a 5m recast and add a "bash" effect on it to have us stun.


An Evasion bonus JA that effects the entire party. WAR gets Warcry for atk, PLD gets Sentinel for DEF, MNK gets Mantra for HP, so why cant THF have one for Evasion?

2nd: Merits

Some general ones for everyone, not just THF, Raise HP merits to 20HP per merit. a possible 160HP for a melee in the long run has the same impact as 80MP for a mage.

Raise the max total Stat mod cap to 10, STR +5 and DEX +5, Can i Has it?

Raise the Max total on "Others" to 12. In general, everyone lvls the same things. Melee get Crits, Tanks get Enmity up, Mages get enmity down. Thier 2nd Chioce depends on the job, like RNG or DRK would get Enmity down and crits. People might actually pick Enemy critical hits down or Spell interruption down if we had more merits.

Now for THF merits.

Flee: Lower recast, usless, What about Raise the Duration 5s for each merit? Capped at 5, we would get 1m Flee.

Hide: No comment, nothing i can think of can make this useful.

SA and TA: Again, lower delay honestly too small make it worth while, people only merit these normally if they have NOTHING TO SPEND MERITS ON. How about a Damage increase for each merit? 1 merit would be the same as 1 DEX or 1 AGI on each JA.


3rd: Items

Only one thing came to mind for me and that was the WoG completion item. We already have 2 Rings (Ult/Rajas) And 3 Earrings (Suppa/Hollow/Brutal). So what item can they add that wont be better then current Expansion items? A Neck Piece? No, we have Love Torque(not everyone has it, but in the end they would have to make something STRONGER then Love Torque to get us to wear it, making it go the way Homam Body will after MW comes out).

That leaves our backpiece. Sure there's a decent amount of good Backpieces for THFs, but leave it to SE to think of a Unique one to give us at the end of WoG. Everyone used Snipers and Flame rings until CoP and ToA rings. Suppa was always there, but nothing else unique until Brutal and Hollow. So if SE was going to add anything at the end of WoG, a backpiece would be the best slot to use without having to make the item stronger then older unique quested items. a Backpiece with Acc/Atk and some random effect they tend to add would be ideal for me.

In Closing

This topic is just to put ideas out there, i Dont think SE will do most/all of these. But at least i got them out there for everyone to hear. If you have any Brain Crack you want to get rid of, post it here.

CHA!



Edited, Mar 24th 2009 11:45pm by EvilTedy

I'm going to be the ass here. Leave the fix and tweaks to others jobs, seriously >.>

THF is the dual wielder job with the LESS accuracy problems. Feint! It caps your accuray for 30s every 2min, 25% of the time ! SA and TA are garanteed hits too ! THF's job is largelly underestimated because of all those gimps walking in full dragon gears (except for turban, of course) who totally destroy the job's name. Make a name for yourself and you'll be THF more in events if you want it.

Leave the fix to jobs who need it or doesn't got anything since years, namelly nin (their merits blow and low accuracy) whm (SCH broke the balance) bst (had to name them) and smn (they always need a fix XD).

I'm totally fine with THF since the introduction of both accomplice/collaborator/feint, those things gave THF a real niche in almost every events.

fix perfect dodge so that it dodges ranged attacks as well. all i want. if SE was kind enough to add a stun or single attack to mug, i would actually make a macro for it.

as for hide merits, i would have done 5 of those in a heartbeat if the damage potential for lower SA/TA timers wasnt so good. AoE eva buff? why? only jobs that might get use from it would be nin and mnk. definately not worthy of a macro, and would only be good for a hate spike.

you want r/x back armor? lucky for you, SE has already delivered. there are 4 capes you can buy with ancient beastcoins. sure, all are highly situational, but what exactly were you expecting? there are already good back armors avaliable. want mage back pieces? ix'aern wants a word with you.

the chains of promethia expansion covered all the accessory slots, hai2you swift belt, ninurta's sash, brutal earring, boxer's mantle, rajas ring, love torque, etc, etc, etc. in ToAU SE went with set bonuses, while nifty, often the full set bonus isnt worthy of preventing hodgepodgeing like we always have. SE learned from this and made set bonus in WotG scalable with how many pieces of the set you are wearing.

the next step is coming in the mini expansions, customizable armor! holy ps2 limitations, batman! people have speculated that the next two mini expansions will finish off the sets with head, leg, hand, and boot armors, and if SE does right they will mix what is avaliable to put in every slot, making an entire set fully customized by the players, yet not gamebreaking enough to render all the rest of the nifty gear avaliable obsolete.

SE has definately gotten better at designing armor as the years have gone on.

Edited, Mar 25th 2009 2:43am by Buront

Trick Attack, because a) it's a less selfish merit, given its usefulness on HNM, etc., and b) it's much easier to land consistently in merits, and thus more likely to pay off in the long run.

Edited, Mar 25th 2009 3:11am by Angina

Not only is this the first time anyone's ever commented on my sig, but it's hilarious to boot. I kind of want to sig you as well, but I have too much crap there already; it's a bit ostentatious.

Edited, Mar 25th 2009 3:18am by Angina

you could quote me, and have the words homoerotic admirer be a link to the other thread, but thats just my narcissism speaking. oh, and when you send me in the direction of vaguely homosexual men looking for someone to revere, please make sure they are much vaguer than the people in the videos that milich likes to post. or not, im open to new ideas.

The only reason I have a problem with this is that @ HNM if your pld or nin needs your help to hold hate, you need a new tank. Really, they can cap enmity in like 20 seconds if they know what they are doing. Your other point about TA being easier to land in merits is 100% true though, unless you get those stupid guys that see you positioning and move on purpose.

Edit: pld or nin, not pld/nin

Edited, Mar 25th 2009 8:09am by Meldi

I wish they can make SA and TA more than it is right now. If theres a new ability that can combine with SA or TA to gain additional effect would be interesting.

For instances like: SA+MUG would create a form of damage and a minor stun/evasion down effect.


Dunno, I only want A+ dagger. And make us hit easier on higher def mobs, it's weird to wear all these attack stuff with pizza, and your dagger is still hitting below 10s!

Actually yes it would. I'm not usually one to criticize other's playstyle, but as far as merits 5 triple attack is by far and away that superior a choice for category 1, it's just that big of a change. While I agree 5/5 ta and sa can be useful, compared to 5/5 triple and other 5 in timers it's still wasteful. There are rare instances where I will say certain merits are best but 5/5 triple and AL LEAST ONE feint should be a standard. The 50 seconds each of sa and ta is nice, but triple 5/5 is so much nicer. Feint is the one merit I say is absolutely required to put at least one point in, it's just that big O.o.

And as far as the comment on choosing trick attack or sneak attack for a timer if you go 5/5, I chose sneak attack myself. This is a personal preference and both work very well, but since I enjoy ballista and since in a stacked weaponskill you gear for dex and not agility sneak attack is a little bit more powerful than trick attack in damage weight. In HNM my shells had tanks that were pretty good with hate and the difference of 10 seconds on trick attack was never a liability to me, but I certainly couldn't hold it against anyone to merit TA over SA, as said, this is a personal preference.

Edited, Mar 25th 2009 11:39am by Melphina

i didnt say they would be the best, just not wasteful. i dont care to do the math because i've already done my merits, and triple attack merits cut out the human error factor, but i seriously doubt that one setup would lag seriously behind the other if human error was not a factor.

Whoever thinks thf merits are weak needs to go spend some time with other jobs. Hai2u ninja!

Triple Attack rate and Feint are *awesome* merits, which other jobs would kill for. Aura Steal is pretty pimp, too. 10s off of SA is pretty damn nice, too. I honestly think thf has some of the best merits in the game. 2s alone may be small, but once it's at 10s, it's pretty awesome.

The only thing I don't like about thf as it stands is Perfect Dodge. It's almost as useless as Mijin Gakure.

Just removing weakened state from Mijin would at least make it useable; all 2hrs can be worked into some sort of strategy, except Mijin. A "free" 600dmg nuke it still absolutle crap, but it's an improvement.

I want:

1. Accuracy bonus 1 & 2, OR

2. "Viciousness" job trait that ignores a percentage of a mobs defense that scales up slightly as the mob is higher level than you. Lets say it starts when the mob is 5 levels higher than you, but it only ignores 2-3% of the monsters defense, at 10 levels higher than you it starts ignoring 5-7% of the monsters defense, and at 15, it is ignoring 10%. Handy for merits, and even handier for fighting gods/hnm, that is if your linkshell lets you actually melee because of your tp feeding, which brings me to...

3. Native subtle blow. Seriously, we could do with a full line of subtle blow up to at least 3.

4. cRatio bonus on SB, SA, and TA.

Put it on TA and let it be subbed. But it only works with 1H weapons. This makes THF a stronger hate controller in endgame and /THF would make 1H weapons relevant again.


Edited, Mar 25th 2009 7:40pm by Lobivopis

If I could fully express my hatred for DRG DRK and SAM, well...let's just say it would be bigger.

Why hate what other jobs have? You can cry about what your job doesn't have, but it makes no sense to whine about other jobs being strong. Face it, you aren't taking an alliance of THF's to events. You NEED what abilities and talents other jobs have. Why does THF have to be superior in damage on merit party mobs where all theorycrafting is done? I think its currently adequate, but its just harder to make THF shine compared to other jobs. Its a very busy job requiring lots of gear sets and lots of focused attention. Don't like that? Don't play THF. The biggest problem with THF has always been the perception that, in general, most THFs don't know how to play their jobs. Those guys make all THFs look bad. I personally like my THF a lot as it is.

What he said!



I used to feel the same until I lvled those jobs.... now I hate myself /emo /stab-own-face!!!!

The amusing thing is that nowadays there are damn fine FPS with job systems in them that rely on the same kinds of teamwork and diversity that FFXI revolves around. Killzone 2 even allows you a "subjob" or sorts, to combine the abilities of two different classes.

That wasn't entirely relevant, I suppose, but it struck me as noteworthy.

Wow, did you even watch the Youtube video, i wanted to unload some ideas out of me head. Also, whats a WAR doing trolling in a THF forum? Oh and SE just announced a HUGE update for WHM, so doing one for THF in the forseeable future is possible.

Back on Topic,



1. A+ in dagger: I Agree

2. Natural Dual Wield: Why make more reasons for people to NOT use NIN/ anymore..

3. Stun on Mug or damage: Damage is good, but knowing SE it would suck. "Bash" effect would be better.

4. Mug lower recast: Everyone wants this.

5. Perfect Dodge: Any fix for this will probably be a good one.

Edited, Mar 26th 2009 9:47am by EvilTedy

I would love A+ dagger or any other acc/att or just acc or just att boost to thf in any way. (new JT, JA, weapons skill, some uber crazy thf only equip with no equivalent for other jobs lol, doesnt matter to me)

However, giving thf DW or a few other the other crazy things in this thread seem like way too much of a stretch to me. Changing PD to avoid RA would get rid of the only way to gain tp on mobs during PD, not sure i would love that. DW is the nin trait that makes them nin, if other jobs got it wow, just would be a huge slap in the face lol.

Guess all I really want from SE is for a Heca Sub to show up in my d box as a special gift for me only. That would rock.

Nope. Believe it or not, just because you made a thread doesn't mean you're the only one being posted to/about. If you actually read your own thread, you'd have noticed several posts about how these sort (Speculation/Wish) of threads are annoying. I simply added my view on that subject. Are you some sort of authority figure saying where people can and cannot post? I post where I want to post, it's what I do. It's part of my charm, as it were, and if I weren't trying to get either Darkdoom or Nilatai to win this contest instead of myself, I might be a little less abrasive.

(Though, I doubt that.)

obviously i fully agree with the last paragraph (since i already expressed such sentiments), but actually (despite my hatred for these kinds of threads) i agree with the second to last paragraph too. accomplice/collaborator was a great idea on SE's part, one of the best they've had regarding job buffs, ever. it's beautiful: very helpful, very situational, strong enough to make the job desired in certain situations, but not so strong that it excludes other party setups or makes the game too easy (though the game is already kind of easy). i agree too that going further on that enmity road could threaten to be too powerful, but i think it's a viable avenue for buffs.

A+ dagger would be pretty awesome to have.

but native dual wield is kinda broken, thats half of the super sweet goodness of /NIN. think about it, if THF had native dual wield, i'd just go /WAR, which would lower my survivability, and im not to good on the number crunching, but i think id be dishing out some nice damage. BUT then other classes will complain that THF is to bitchin' and want their jobs mega-powered also.

Merits is not the problem, ability to be anything other than a mosquito on HNM is the problem.

When SE spilled the beans and told people a THF only has to poke the mob and then drop from the alliance they screwed us.



I came up with this idea a long time ago and got flamed for it. Of course if they ever actually do it everyone will immediately forget that and talk about how great SE is.

Edited, Mar 27th 2009 4:46am by Lobivopis

As said earlier in this thread adding 1.75 cRatio bonus to Trick Attack would go a long way toward gaining THF respect on HNMs. We still wouldn't outdamage SAM or DRK or whatever but WS numbers are what people pay attention to. Not to mention it would help us keep hate on the tank better.

Edited, Mar 27th 2009 6:04am by Lobivopis

Accepted, this adjustment I will take as well. Combined with A + dagger skill, that would be a more balanced fix. Dual wield isn a bad idea, but these two combined would be more than respectable, and I'd like this.