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The "What THFs want from SE" ThreadFollow

#1 Mar 24 2009 at 8:52 PM Rating: Decent
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After watching a Youtube video about Brain Crack (NSFW only due to him mentioning the Blue Nudity in Watchmen). I decided i want to unload my ideas for everyone to hear about how SE can improve the THF job.

1st: New JAs and Job Tweeks

Let me get the easy ones out of the way, Fix Perfect Dodge!! Make it so everyone in the party gets the evasion bonus. Or Infinate SA on the first hit of every attack for 30s, so we can accumulate enough hate to actually tank during our evasion bonus.

Give us a Reverse Accomplice/Collaborator, i made a thread about this a while back. But basically it would let us place our current hate on another player. 25% on a 1m timer or 50% on a 5m timer, both would be tied to Accomplice and Collaborator so that you cant spam them together.

Mug, 15m recast? what were they thinking. Put it at a 5m recast and add a "bash" effect on it to have us stun.


An Evasion bonus JA that effects the entire party. WAR gets Warcry for atk, PLD gets Sentinel for DEF, MNK gets Mantra for HP, so why cant THF have one for Evasion?

2nd: Merits

Some general ones for everyone, not just THF, Raise HP merits to 20HP per merit. a possible 160HP for a melee in the long run has the same impact as 80MP for a mage.

Raise the max total Stat mod cap to 10, STR +5 and DEX +5, Can i Has it?

Raise the Max total on "Others" to 12. In general, everyone lvls the same things. Melee get Crits, Tanks get Enmity up, Mages get enmity down. Thier 2nd Chioce depends on the job, like RNG or DRK would get Enmity down and crits. People might actually pick Enemy critical hits down or Spell interruption down if we had more merits.

Now for THF merits.

Flee: Lower recast, usless, What about Raise the Duration 5s for each merit? Capped at 5, we would get 1m Flee.

Hide: No comment, nothing i can think of can make this useful.

SA and TA: Again, lower delay honestly too small make it worth while, people only merit these normally if they have NOTHING TO SPEND MERITS ON. How about a Damage increase for each merit? 1 merit would be the same as 1 DEX or 1 AGI on each JA.


3rd: Items

Only one thing came to mind for me and that was the WoG completion item. We already have 2 Rings (Ult/Rajas) And 3 Earrings (Suppa/Hollow/Brutal). So what item can they add that wont be better then current Expansion items? A Neck Piece? No, we have Love Torque(not everyone has it, but in the end they would have to make something STRONGER then Love Torque to get us to wear it, making it go the way Homam Body will after MW comes out).

That leaves our backpiece. Sure there's a decent amount of good Backpieces for THFs, but leave it to SE to think of a Unique one to give us at the end of WoG. Everyone used Snipers and Flame rings until CoP and ToA rings. Suppa was always there, but nothing else unique until Brutal and Hollow. So if SE was going to add anything at the end of WoG, a backpiece would be the best slot to use without having to make the item stronger then older unique quested items. a Backpiece with Acc/Atk and some random effect they tend to add would be ideal for me.

In Closing

This topic is just to put ideas out there, i Dont think SE will do most/all of these. But at least i got them out there for everyone to hear. If you have any Brain Crack you want to get rid of, post it here.

CHA!



Edited, Mar 24th 2009 11:45pm by EvilTedy
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#2 Mar 24 2009 at 9:43 PM Rating: Good
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I agree with alot of stuff in here, but this particularly sticks out as incorrect.
EvilTedy wrote:
SA and TA: Again, lower delay honestly too small make it worth while, people only merit these normally if they have NOTHING TO SPEND MERITS ON. How about a Damage increase for each merit? 1 merit would be the same as 1 DEX or 1 AGI on each JA.

Actually these merits add up to alot over time because if you merit your SA and TA down you can ws faster which in the end results to a tremendous amount of extra damage. No need to make the merits give dmg as time down allready = damage. Stack on as much modifier as you can (dex/agi) and rock on.

Honestly there is TWO GINORMOUS problems I have with Thief.

1. Accuracy, Thief accuracy just f*ing sucks. Honestly. Wearing like 60 acc I still cant hit Kirin without food. Its retarded. And though I dont particularly have much accuracy problems at merit camps like birds and mamool, I know I would definately appreciate a boost in this department.

2. (unfixable by SE) Thief is looked down upon as damage dealer, I cant count the amount of times when Ive been kicked when a party is in the making or bards leave because they dont want to party with a Thief. Yet they have like 3 full hachi sams with Onimarus and thats ok. Full knowing I could destroy these people in a parse, its really hard to bring this to light, frustrating and extremely depressing.

Note: I approve of that Reverse Accomplice/Collab.

Edited, Mar 25th 2009 1:44am by Michimeow
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Common: STR 5/5 Crit:4/4 Evasion:3/4
75THF: Dagger:8/8 Triple:5/5 SA:3/5 TA:2/5 AC:4/5 Feint:5/5 AS:1/5
75NIN: Katana:8/8 SubtleB:1/5 NTE:5/5
75WHM: Cure 5/5 Regen 3/5 Pro V: 1/5 Shell V: 1/5 Devotion: 5/5

THF TP - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?194817
THF WS - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?125747
NIN WS - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?195591
NIN TP - http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?195592
#3 Mar 24 2009 at 10:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm going to be the *** here. Leave the fix and tweaks to others jobs, seriously >.>

THF is the dual wielder job with the LESS accuracy problems. Feint! It caps your accuray for 30s every 2min, 25% of the time ! SA and TA are garanteed hits too ! THF's job is largelly underestimated because of all those gimps walking in full dragon gears (except for turban, of course) who totally destroy the job's name. Make a name for yourself and you'll be THF more in events if you want it.

Leave the fix to jobs who need it or doesn't got anything since years, namelly nin (their merits blow and low accuracy) whm (SCH broke the balance) bst (had to name them) and smn (they always need a fix XD).

I'm totally fine with THF since the introduction of both accomplice/collaborator/feint, those things gave THF a real niche in almost every events.
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#4 Mar 24 2009 at 10:29 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
I'm going to be the *** here. Leave the fix and tweaks to others jobs, seriously >.>


Way to derail a thread on a Thief Forum talking about Thief Changes that Thieves would want for other Thieves.

Anyways the issue with SATA is still you can only pick one, that choice is Situational as well. Do you go SA lvl 5 for better DD in Exp situations, or TA lvl 5 for better hate transfer in HNM situations.

Edited, Mar 24th 2009 11:36pm by EvilTedy
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CHA to ALL!
THF75 Homam 5/5, Heca 5/5, Relic 6/6, Denali 5/5
Windy Rank 10, RoZ/CoP/ToA Complete, WoG Mission 26
Captain Rank, Skadi: 4/5, Head 2/3
Server: Lakshmi; Linkshell: WingedSymphonyZ
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#5 Mar 24 2009 at 10:41 PM Rating: Good
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fix perfect dodge so that it dodges ranged attacks as well. all i want. if SE was kind enough to add a stun or single attack to mug, i would actually make a macro for it.

as for hide merits, i would have done 5 of those in a heartbeat if the damage potential for lower SA/TA timers wasnt so good. AoE eva buff? why? only jobs that might get use from it would be nin and mnk. definately not worthy of a macro, and would only be good for a hate spike.

you want r/x back armor? lucky for you, SE has already delivered. there are 4 capes you can buy with ancient beastcoins. sure, all are highly situational, but what exactly were you expecting? there are already good back armors avaliable. want mage back pieces? ix'aern wants a word with you.

the chains of promethia expansion covered all the accessory slots, hai2you swift belt, ninurta's sash, brutal earring, boxer's mantle, rajas ring, love torque, etc, etc, etc. in ToAU SE went with set bonuses, while nifty, often the full set bonus isnt worthy of preventing hodgepodgeing like we always have. SE learned from this and made set bonus in WotG scalable with how many pieces of the set you are wearing.

the next step is coming in the mini expansions, customizable armor! holy ps2 limitations, batman! people have speculated that the next two mini expansions will finish off the sets with head, leg, hand, and boot armors, and if SE does right they will mix what is avaliable to put in every slot, making an entire set fully customized by the players, yet not gamebreaking enough to render all the rest of the nifty gear avaliable obsolete.

SE has definately gotten better at designing armor as the years have gone on.

Edited, Mar 25th 2009 2:43am by Buront
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Lv75 Elvaan Thief, Dragoon, Warrior, Black Mage, Ninja, Bard
Number of times I have reached 75 because of death: 100
Total Merits: 432 Levels until Maat Cap: 37
Why fight like a man when I can fight like a chick with a bear?
#6 Mar 24 2009 at 10:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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A+ Dagger

Native Dual Wield (probably only upto II)

S.
#7 Mar 24 2009 at 10:47 PM Rating: Good
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EvilTedy wrote:
Do you go SA lvl 5 for better DD in Exp situations, or TA lvl 5 for better hate transfer in HNM situations.


Trick Attack, because a) it's a less selfish merit, given its usefulness on HNM, etc., and b) it's much easier to land consistently in merits, and thus more likely to pay off in the long run.

Edited, Mar 25th 2009 3:11am by Angina
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#8 Mar 24 2009 at 10:52 PM Rating: Decent
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EvilTedy wrote:
Anyways the issue with SATA is still you can only pick one, that choice is Situational as well. Do you go SA lvl 5 for better DD in Exp situations, or TA lvl 5 for better hate transfer in HNM situations.
noone's holding a gun to your head and forcing you to choose triple attack merits. 5sa and 5ta is absolutely avaliable, and it absolutely wouldnt be a waste of merits if you chose to go that route.

edit: when did you get your own homoerotic admirer angina? and where can i get one of my own?

Edited, Mar 25th 2009 2:53am by Buront
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Lv75 Elvaan Thief, Dragoon, Warrior, Black Mage, Ninja, Bard
Number of times I have reached 75 because of death: 100
Total Merits: 432 Levels until Maat Cap: 37
Why fight like a man when I can fight like a chick with a bear?
#9 Mar 24 2009 at 11:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Buront wrote:
edit: when did you get your own homoerotic admirer angina? and where can i get one of my own?


Not only is this the first time anyone's ever commented on my sig, but it's hilarious to boot. I kind of want to sig you as well, but I have too much crap there already; it's a bit ostentatious.

Edited, Mar 25th 2009 3:18am by Angina
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#10 Mar 24 2009 at 11:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Accuracy Bonus 1-3. If Dancer gets our WS and 3 levels of evasion bonus we should get this.

1.75 cRatio bonus on Trick Attack, same thing Steel Cyclone and Ground Strike get.

Edited, Mar 25th 2009 4:21am by Lobivopis
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#11 Mar 25 2009 at 12:05 AM Rating: Good
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you could quote me, and have the words homoerotic admirer be a link to the other thread, but thats just my narcissism speaking. oh, and when you send me in the direction of vaguely homosexual men looking for someone to revere, please make sure they are much vaguer than the people in the videos that milich likes to post. or not, im open to new ideas.
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Lv75 Elvaan Thief, Dragoon, Warrior, Black Mage, Ninja, Bard
Number of times I have reached 75 because of death: 100
Total Merits: 432 Levels until Maat Cap: 37
Why fight like a man when I can fight like a chick with a bear?
#12 Mar 25 2009 at 1:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Hide: No comment, nothing i can think of can make this useful.


I'd be happy if they added a new piece of gear with "Enhances Hide effect" on it. This would add sneak and deodorize effects to hide so you could lose hate on any mob following you. It would also allow you to SATA - hide - WS on any mob, not just track by sight ones.
#13 Mar 25 2009 at 4:46 AM Rating: Good
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Angina wrote:
Trick Attack, because a) it's a less selfish merit, given its usefulness on HNM


The only reason I have a problem with this is that @ HNM if your pld or nin needs your help to hold hate, you need a new tank. Really, they can cap enmity in like 20 seconds if they know what they are doing. Your other point about TA being easier to land in merits is 100% true though, unless you get those stupid guys that see you positioning and move on purpose.

Edit: pld or nin, not pld/nin

Edited, Mar 25th 2009 8:09am by Meldi
#14 Mar 25 2009 at 5:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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elenie wrote:
I'd be happy if they added a new piece of gear with "Enhances Hide effect" on it. This would add sneak and deodorize effects to hide so you could lose hate on any mob following you. It would also allow you to SATA - hide - WS on any mob, not just track by sight ones.


I have been wanting something like this for a while

EvilTedy wrote:
Give us a Reverse Accomplice/Collaborator, i made a thread about this a while back. But basically it would let us place our current hate on another player. 25% on a 1m timer or 50% on a 5m timer, both would be tied to Accomplice and Collaborator so that you cant spam them together.


I love that they added accomplice/collab, but I am annoyed that they share a recast timer. I also think that the reverse Accomplice idea would go a long way to making us the enmity manipulation specialists that SE wishes we were.

I really wouldnt want them to be tied to accomplice/collab timers though

Oh and also...I request that they increase the distance. Its so hard to pull off effecitively, with good timing (when seconds mean death for a mage) when you have to practically run up and hump the hate from them.

Buront wrote:
fix perfect dodge


yeah...I remember them saying a few years back they were "considering" it IE: "F*** YOU, silly thf. You were not meant to dodge arrows...WE GAVE YOU MUG....now go steal some Gilz...save up for an airship pass and kindly STFU"

Personally I would like to see Aura Steal timer seperate from Steal. Great ability....REALLY should NOT be tied to steal timer....that is beyond ghey. I would have 5/5 in that for sure if it wasn't. It just feels like they are saying "We aren't going to give you any items worth while to steal from monsters, so here steal their protect in dynamis all night long and kindly STFU."

Ah well...at least they still let us blindly hope.....

Edited, Mar 25th 2009 9:18am by ThiefKiller

Edited, Mar 25th 2009 9:19am by ThiefKiller
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#15 Mar 25 2009 at 6:10 AM Rating: Good
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I wish they can make SA and TA more than it is right now. If theres a new ability that can combine with SA or TA to gain additional effect would be interesting.

For instances like: SA+MUG would create a form of damage and a minor stun/evasion down effect.


Dunno, I only want A+ dagger. And make us hit easier on higher def mobs, it's weird to wear all these attack stuff with pizza, and your dagger is still hitting below 10s!
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#16 Mar 25 2009 at 6:44 AM Rating: Good
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not expecially when you consider the warrior next to you is hitting in the 60s
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Lv75 Elvaan Thief, Dragoon, Warrior, Black Mage, Ninja, Bard
Number of times I have reached 75 because of death: 100
Total Merits: 432 Levels until Maat Cap: 37
Why fight like a man when I can fight like a chick with a bear?
#17 Mar 25 2009 at 7:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
noone's holding a gun to your head and forcing you to choose triple attack merits. 5sa and 5ta is absolutely avaliable, and it absolutely wouldnt be a waste of merits if you chose to go that route.



Actually yes it would. I'm not usually one to criticize other's playstyle, but as far as merits 5 triple attack is by far and away that superior a choice for category 1, it's just that big of a change. While I agree 5/5 ta and sa can be useful, compared to 5/5 triple and other 5 in timers it's still wasteful. There are rare instances where I will say certain merits are best but 5/5 triple and AL LEAST ONE feint should be a standard. The 50 seconds each of sa and ta is nice, but triple 5/5 is so much nicer. Feint is the one merit I say is absolutely required to put at least one point in, it's just that big O.o.

And as far as the comment on choosing trick attack or sneak attack for a timer if you go 5/5, I chose sneak attack myself. This is a personal preference and both work very well, but since I enjoy ballista and since in a stacked weaponskill you gear for dex and not agility sneak attack is a little bit more powerful than trick attack in damage weight. In HNM my shells had tanks that were pretty good with hate and the difference of 10 seconds on trick attack was never a liability to me, but I certainly couldn't hold it against anyone to merit TA over SA, as said, this is a personal preference.

Edited, Mar 25th 2009 11:39am by Melphina
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#18 Mar 25 2009 at 7:58 AM Rating: Decent
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The only thing I would like to see is a job trait that enhances the accuracy/potency of bolt procs. Or ****, just make them proc more often for any job. Or make a high level version.

Besides that, I like where thief is for the most part. Except for mug. Whoever decided on the 15 minute recast timer, and no additional useful effect, was definitely hitting the bong.

Edited, Mar 25th 2009 8:59am by Wolfhart
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#19 Mar 25 2009 at 8:46 AM Rating: Good
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i didnt say they would be the best, just not wasteful. i dont care to do the math because i've already done my merits, and triple attack merits cut out the human error factor, but i seriously doubt that one setup would lag seriously behind the other if human error was not a factor.
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Lv75 Elvaan Thief, Dragoon, Warrior, Black Mage, Ninja, Bard
Number of times I have reached 75 because of death: 100
Total Merits: 432 Levels until Maat Cap: 37
Why fight like a man when I can fight like a chick with a bear?
#20 Mar 25 2009 at 8:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Along the lines of bolts...
Please give us access to more bolt options! At least Holy Bolts lol.

I also think that Mug should have a damage spike attached to it, and also be stackable with SA for a really big spike every 15 minutes (not excessive, but say between 500-800).

I really don't think THF (or any jobs) needs a native dual weild, but I do think that an A+ in dagger would be a welcome addition IMO.
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#21 Mar 25 2009 at 8:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Whoever thinks thf merits are weak needs to go spend some time with other jobs. Hai2u ninja!

Triple Attack rate and Feint are *awesome* merits, which other jobs would kill for. Aura Steal is pretty pimp, too. 10s off of SA is pretty **** nice, too. I honestly think thf has some of the best merits in the game. 2s alone may be small, but once it's at 10s, it's pretty awesome.

The only thing I don't like about thf as it stands is Perfect Dodge. It's almost as useless as Mijin Gakure.
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ITT: The Gimpire Strikes Back
#22 Mar 25 2009 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
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no joke.. if you are going to sacrifice your own life, you should do more than 600~800 dmg. or at least have it work kinda like throat stab, massive dmg spike that leaves you with 10% of your current hp.
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Lv75 Elvaan Thief, Dragoon, Warrior, Black Mage, Ninja, Bard
Number of times I have reached 75 because of death: 100
Total Merits: 432 Levels until Maat Cap: 37
Why fight like a man when I can fight like a chick with a bear?
#23 Mar 25 2009 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
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Just removing weakened state from Mijin would at least make it useable; all 2hrs can be worked into some sort of strategy, except Mijin. A "free" 600dmg nuke it still absolutle crap, but it's an improvement.
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Findanniin wrote:
"Last reply Mithradoom. Well, someone had to go rain on the happy parade" was exactly what went through my head. xD


Keliaffxi wrote:

ITT: The Gimpire Strikes Back
#24 Mar 25 2009 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
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I'd like a 1.75 cRatio boost on DE, since sam already has that and more.
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#25 Mar 25 2009 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
I want:

1. Accuracy bonus 1 & 2, OR

2. "Viciousness" job trait that ignores a percentage of a mobs defense that scales up slightly as the mob is higher level than you. Lets say it starts when the mob is 5 levels higher than you, but it only ignores 2-3% of the monsters defense, at 10 levels higher than you it starts ignoring 5-7% of the monsters defense, and at 15, it is ignoring 10%. Handy for merits, and even handier for fighting gods/hnm, that is if your linkshell lets you actually melee because of your tp feeding, which brings me to...

3. Native subtle blow. Seriously, we could do with a full line of subtle blow up to at least 3.

4. cRatio bonus on SB, SA, and TA.
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#26 Mar 25 2009 at 1:17 PM Rating: Good
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if i could fully express my hatred for topics like this ("what should SE 'fix'?" and the related "what do you think the next update will be like guys?"), that expression would not only crash alla, but cause connectivity issues for most of if not all the world. the hatred would be so big that you would be driven insane just by reading it.
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