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Wait... I'm getting a mixed message here about White MagesFollow

#1 May 27 2010 at 3:26 PM Rating: Good
I haven't started playing just yet, but on the 'New Job Ideas' post, I read the following, the most important parts are bolded.

"The only class belonging specifically to the healer role; the White Mage, also tends to be a taboo in parties, though less so than the Black Mage. White Mages receive spots in parties when no working group of two support jobs is available. Along the same lines of spent MP is wasted MP, White Mages do not offer abilities like refresh or convert to extend their MP pools indefinitely like a Red Mage. The addition of a new healing specific class could alienate the current White Mage community. They already have a difficult time finding merit parties, if their special position in end game was compromised there would likely be a large out cry. Without a system revision making a healing specific class more preferable than dual support jobs, an addition of a new healing specific class seems foolhardy. (Original post, now semi-irrelevant)

SE pulled a power move with the release of Dancer and it turned out quite well. Because Dancer is a TP based healer it does not push White Mage out of its end game role. In addition the ability for White Mages to now sub Scholar enhances the longevity of their MP pools allowing them to be more effective in both end game and party situations."

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I've been wanting to play a healer, and one of the best things about healers in any game is quick parties (of course, I like healer game play in general). Is the White Mage now a viable end game class, like the later part of the message since it is , or is it still 'taboo' endgame. If so, would Dancer then be a more 'viable' healer? If both are lousy endgame choices, should I then just go with Corsair and do ?

#2 May 27 2010 at 3:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's just gibberish.

WHM's haven't had any trouble with MP up since /SCH came out. And even before that, the only difference was that it required more work on the WHM side to be on par. Some people (like the one that wrote that) are just still stuck with the simple short-sighted mentality that "nothing could approach Convert and Refresh"; which is akin to "Big-Number Syndrome" that made people believe DRK was the end-all-be-all DD back in 2004.

At this point in the game, nothing can compare to a good WHM on the healer role. This can potentially change in the future depending on how SE handles raising the level cap; but I doubt we are going to be in trouble.

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#3 May 27 2010 at 5:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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#4 May 27 2010 at 6:24 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, my WHM gets more merit invites than my RDM does, so...
#5 May 28 2010 at 12:40 AM Rating: Default
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Given that I see far more RDM in merit parties than WHM, I'd say it's not far off. Your invites are based on people's perception, not reality. I will say this though, if we want to be nits about reality (as marginal as it is): RDM are better for merits not because of Convert/Refresh but because of Dia III. A merit healer needs mediocre heals, "unlimited" MP, Haste, and Dia. WHM and RDM share everything except Dia where RDM get III and WHM get II.

My first job was WHM because I love healing and I got it to ~50 before I realized what a dead end it was for xp invites. I switched to RDM and it was like night and day. The healing stayed the same but was so much more useful with better enfeebles, much more MP, dispel, and refresh. That was 5 years ago and it's still pretty much the same.

WHM is great in a lot of endgame stuff where the extra healing matters, just not merits.
#6 May 28 2010 at 2:14 AM Rating: Good
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The above is a great example of the short-sightedness I talked about. Some people just don't get it.



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#7 May 28 2010 at 2:54 AM Rating: Good
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lol @ spending 45 MP per bird on Dia III. If the 5% additional defense down over Dia II is what it takes for a merit party to be doing indefinite chains than that's not a merit party I want to be in. The only time I could see Dia III being relevant is if you have to pull Wivres to keep chain, but a WHM's Esuna to remove attack down instantly rather than mucking around with Erase's long recast timer is gunna be more useful there anyway.
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#8 May 28 2010 at 5:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
RDM are better for merits not because of Convert/Refresh but because of Dia III.


While that *might* be true, it sure as hell isn't why they *might* get invited more often. They're invited because people still think that Convert = unlimited MP.

In most lolibri parties I see (and ones I've been in as BRD/NIN), Dia is never even cast at all, and I have never seen any of the melees pipe up "hey healer, cast Dia or we're replacing you". To be frank, it isn't needed. Birds are @#%^ing weaksauce, and it's actually quite possible to be killing them too quickly, anyway.

And yeah, Esuna makes wivres a lot more feasible. I still prefer not to go after them though, and most parties I'm in aren't SO good that we end up losing chains due to lack of birds, anyway.
#9 May 28 2010 at 8:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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I have WHM and RDM (as well as all the support jobs) My WHM has a far easier time healing a meripo than my RDM. However both jobs get ample invites and can do just fine, if the player has an ounce of common sense. WHM/SCH works well with BRD and COR, using sublimation but I rarely find I need both and usually just get the odd ballad II.

Historically, it got to the point where people did start inviting RDMs over WHMs for merits. Then SE decided that it was ridiculous and /SCH was born. Well ok not quite that simple... but these days for merits there is no difference in efficiency in a meripo between the two if the players are equally skilled. They just do things differently. I prefer meriting on COR, BRD or WHM over RDM but that's just me.
#10 May 28 2010 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
extend their MP pools indefinitely like a Red Mage.


I lulzed.

I don't know which dark corner of the interwebs you pulled this garbadge from, as there are plenty of dark corners of the interwebs, but it speaks with the most blatant and idiotic ignorence that I've heard in awhile.

Whoever wrote this is clearly either a Red Mage, a fool who knows nothing about White Mage, or both. If any hint of that paragraph were once slightly true, it sure isn't anymore. Therefore the entire thing is irrelevant and just plain incorrect.

White Mage is not taboo in anything, least of all endgame, and you'd be hard pressed to find someone who would not specificly want White Mages for all sorts of Endgame activities. It is, perhaps, not as necessary in parties which only require a healer to use their skill for curebombing/curebotting a party of melees; but, even in such parties, any half-decent White Mage should easily beable to keep up with a Red Mage or Scholar. Whoever wrote this dribble either has a chip on their shoulders due to a bad experience with a White Mage, or is simply an idiot who decided to repeat what they've been told by other idiots. Because as we all know, a lie retold enough times serves as the truth, an't that right?

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#11 Jun 03 2010 at 9:28 PM Rating: Default
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That info is all hogwash. If WHM is useless then why is it that in my limbus shell i'm only allowed to go as whm?

I go as whm/sch and most of the times i'min the pure DD pt. I only get a brd if I'm in in there are extra brds that the tanks and blms haven't claimed. I hardly eve rrun out of mp and when I do I use sublimation which is a mini convert. If sublimation isn't up and it's an aspirable mob... guess what? Aspir. No mp, sublimation down and no aspirable mob well... use Martyr. YOu can also give MP to the tanks with Devotion. Shoot I've even had to use devotion on RDMS who were constantly nuking or offfered to take over hasting the pt.

When you do need to rest, and there will come a time when you will, when even RDMs need to rest, there's some awesome hmp gear out there. I have Errant body, pluto, antivenom earring, grandiose chain and hierarch belt, and ariesian grip. That's +25 hp adn I still need the Goliard and Healer's Duckbills. Add in Refresh from RDM (if not /sch) and balled/balled 2, evoker's/healer's roll.. Can't beat that.

I have WHM 75 and RDM72. If I main heal I want ot be on WHM. Esuna is a godsend so is Cura. I've done jailers without a single rest. Dyna is a challenge to the best of whms though.

Who doesn't love a whm who can dispel?

Edited, Jun 3rd 2010 10:43pm by Shastal
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#12 Jun 03 2010 at 11:02 PM Rating: Good
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In my LS, it's very simple... if your tank pt doesn't have a whm and you go up against something worthwhile fighting whatever it may be, you die. No other healer can heal and stay under the hate radar as well as a WHM. Any RDM or SCH spamming Cure IVs will soon be kissing the floor, and if they choose to spam Cure IIIs instead, the tank will be kissing the floor. I'm still a RDM main, but WHM just heals so much better it's not even funny.
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#13 Jun 04 2010 at 12:16 AM Rating: Good
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Exactly. I spam regen 3 and 2 to avoid the timer delay for regen 3. Cure is a low mp and low hate curaga that I use only when the pt is asleep. I scare people in my endgame shells because I'mnot afraid to get up next to the mob to use AoE spells but at the same time I'm not stupid either I try to time it after the mob does an AoE of its own. The pt knows taht when I run up to them in the middle of a battle to have a voke ready just in case. I also like to repose mobs especially when blms rdms and brds are being resisted.

Cure 5 = a lot of hp recovered
Cure 4 = hate = death
Cure 3 = between cure 5s
Cure 1 & 2 = not worth ith

Honestly I love whm but I do wish my limbus LS would let me bring smn or drk once in a while but we have very few whms in the ls 4 I think.

WHM is the only true healer there is. SCH is good but no 'na' spells unless you use Light ARts or have WHM subbed. Switchign between Light ARts and Dark Arts and waiting for strategem timers is a pain.
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83 - WHM 82 - BLM
77 - SMN 76 - DRK
72 - WAR DRG BST RDM

I solo for xp on odd job combos. SMN/THF FTW!
Never get too attached to a group and consider them as an online family. You'll just get hurt.

#14 Jun 04 2010 at 8:20 AM Rating: Decent
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'only thing I can really agree with in the OP is that black mages are taboo in merit parties. (though I'm not going to say don't use them if you really want to cause I couldn't give a rat's flail +1 about it :o)

Edited, Jun 4th 2010 10:21am by ZiGG
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#15 Jun 04 2010 at 12:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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With the level cap upgrade, we may get to party with BLM's again. Haste access for everyone!
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It is better wither to be silent, or to say things of more value than silence. Sooner throw a pearl at hazard than an idle or useless word; and do not say a little in many words, but a great deal in a few.
- Pythagoras
#16 Jun 04 2010 at 1:50 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
WHM is the only true healer there is. SCH is good but no 'na' spells unless you use Light ARts or have WHM subbed. Switchign between Light ARts and Dark Arts and waiting for strategem timers is a pain.


There seems to be a misunderstanding about how SCH heals. It's proactive instead of reactive. Sch can easily keep phalanx on the pt at all times. And stoneskinga can be cast when needed. Even blink if all the melee are /sam so they can keep hasso up full time.

Anyway SCH isn't a good healer because of spamming cure IV's, SCH is a good healer because they don't have to spam cures. Even doing phalanx, blink, and stoneskin rotations, still leaves one free charge every cycle, for an extra stoneskin, rapture, or cure IV ga.

I usually skip out on blink and save it for another stoneskin when at least 2 peoples skin gets broken (or if your pt is in tune with you, they will cancel their skin when they see you casting it). Works out very nicely for me. Sometimes I can go quite a while only casting stoneskinga phalanxga and regen IIga, with no cures at all.


And if you're in a pure healing situation, wtf are you dicking around in dark arts for anyway?
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#17 Jun 05 2010 at 7:38 PM Rating: Decent
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When I can aspir 100-150 mp in limbus or dyna it can only be a benefit to everyone. I have a full dark magic gear set for rdm and blm which my whm can also wear. Many times Dark Arts + dark gear + aspir has saved more than one person when I was low on mp.
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83 - WHM 82 - BLM
77 - SMN 76 - DRK
72 - WAR DRG BST RDM

I solo for xp on odd job combos. SMN/THF FTW!
Never get too attached to a group and consider them as an online family. You'll just get hurt.

#18 Jun 06 2010 at 1:49 AM Rating: Good
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That's why I said pure healing situation, with lots of status removals. Obviously, if you can aspir for 100-150 every 30 seconds or more (depending on haste) that beats the hell outta penury, so spend a charge on Add. White, instead of penury. That's a pretty basic SCH technique, guess I should've been more thorough at first.

Besides, all mobs don't have mp. It's usually a good idea to explore different situations.
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#19 Jun 06 2010 at 5:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Yes I am very careful of what mobs I aspir. I only aspir on mobs that are aspirable like crabs and elementals. I love the crabs in limbus. And since the amount you aspir varies so widely and you may not even get 10mp back I only aspir when I'm 150 or below.
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83 - WHM 82 - BLM
77 - SMN 76 - DRK
72 - WAR DRG BST RDM

I solo for xp on odd job combos. SMN/THF FTW!
Never get too attached to a group and consider them as an online family. You'll just get hurt.

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