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Mystic Boon and WeaponryFollow

#1 May 20 2009 at 10:34 AM Rating: Good
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So I recently acquired this awesomely useful WS and I've been toying around with different club options but my available clubs are limited to that which I can find on the AH. So I'm wondering what are the setups that you folks have found useful. Do you dual wield it all the time, do you get a shield with good melee stats, do you rely on TP gain or WS damage to keep your MP up, all that jazz.
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#2 May 20 2009 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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depends what you're doing with it :P You have very big boosts in the 2ndary mods, with 30% STR and 50% MND, so every 2MND adds 1 base damage and every 3STR should add ~2 dmg (depending on VIT of mob). For each 2 acc add +1% to your hitrate under cap, att adds better average damage w/r/t enemy def but has to be in fairly high quantities to do anything useful.

For the most part it should be more or less identical to your hexa gear, if you choose to Sneak Attack the WS though then you can drop all the acc gear (as it's single hit) and focus purely on stat mods for the WS.

A Martial Wand will yield the best Mystic Boon results without question, it's bonus adds +50% damage at 100% TP, but it's hexa results are a bit naff (despite offering +20% crit rate)

Then you have ye olde classic weapons -

Perdu Wand A very solid DPS'r which is a bit naff on the old weaponskills but with hidden +14 att +5 acc is never to be underestimated, the key note with Mystic Boon here is most of your damage is going to be from secondary skills anyway so the DPS isn't absolutely essential

Seawolf Cudgel Garrr! With a bigass acc mod and STR mods off the bat it's a mighty fine vessel, the -att is a bit of a turnoff but a consistent hard hitter non-the-less

Deae Gratia A neat little club especially if you plan on taking damage in the face(that's the techincal term I assure you)

Morgenstern The old fanboi favourite, once unlocked it's a neat little DPS'r with the chance of critting those WS's for something in the region os +30-100% damage depending on what you hit (but a Sneak Attack is 100% crit 100% acc anyway so not recommended if you're going that route)

Purgatory Mace Oooh stun :O

Brass Jadagna +1 The highest base dmg in the club outside of mythic/relic weaponry, but a lack of other mods don't really contribute to your overall Mystic Boon

Your basic gear is gonna be along the lines of: Recommend in orange, difficult to obtain and recommended in RED

Head: Either high +MND stat hat Goliard Chapeau, Healer's Cap +1 // big +STR hat Voyager Sallet, Gnadbhod's Helm // Acc hat Optical Hat

Body: MND body Marduk's Jubbah, Blessed Briault // Acc body Tabin Jupon +1, Reverend Mail (warning -5MND), Hydra Doublet, Augmented Royal Redingote (get acc & att)

Legs: MND pants Blessed Trousers, Jet Seraweels // Acc Pants Hydra Brais // Hybrid Pants Prince's Slops

Feet: MND feet Marduk's Crackows, Cleric's Duckbills, Errant Pigaches, Blessed Pumps // STR feet Creek Clomps // Acc feet Hydra Gaiters

Hands: stat mod hands Healer's Mitts +1 // Acc hands Hydra Gloves

Neck: MND neck Ajari Bead Necklace // Acc neck Chivalrous Chain, Peacock Charm, Ancient Torque

Back: stat mod back Royal Army Mantle // Att back Bellicose Mantle

Finger: Take your pick MND/STR/acc rings
Ear: Brutal Earring // take your pick MND / STR / Att earrings
Waist: Life Belt, Potent Belt or +MND belt

Edited, May 20th 2009 4:05pm by ZiGG
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#3 May 20 2009 at 12:04 PM Rating: Good
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oh man the crap I type trying to get out of studying for exams :/
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#4 May 20 2009 at 12:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah lol, you were going full pirate for a bit there lol.
#5 May 20 2009 at 1:00 PM Rating: Good
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I've just recently unlocked this WS as well. Sadly, I have only been able to play around with it in Campaign and a small group setting fighting DC-T mobs. It seems to have pretty decent accuracy (not 100% since I have seen it miss), so it might be OK to replace an ACC piece here and there with an ATK or STR/MND mod piece.

I've no idea if this still holds true with anything tougher though.

For clubs I'd personally go with one of the higher DMG weapons or Purdu. I'm really not a fan of the Martial wand, but to each their own. To me it just doesn't seem worth losing DoT for a minor boost in WS results.

I giggled at the pirate sounding description too lol, nice use of colors!

Edited, May 20th 2009 5:02pm by Thiez
#6 May 20 2009 at 4:32 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Do not use accuracy for Mystic Boon (or any single hit melee WSs). You have capped accuracy for almost any situation, so it's not worth bothering. Go straight for attack/STR/MND.

Different story if you're dual wielding.

Edited, May 20th 2009 7:33pm by bsphil
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#7 May 20 2009 at 10:20 PM Rating: Good
Also dual wield adds an extra offhand hit so you get more dmg. I usually go with Martial/Prudence when I am doing Mystic Boon, then swap out to melee main hand club such as Brass Jaganda for Hexa strike as I build TP.
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#8 May 20 2009 at 10:43 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Do not use accuracy for Mystic Boon (or any single hit melee WSs). You have capped accuracy for almost any situation, so it's not worth bothering. Go straight for attack/STR/MND.

Different story if you're dual wielding.


Mystic Boon is not Tachi: Gekko.
I had less than a 60% land rate on Mystic boon on tanking gear against EM mandies at the tree, back when I was skilling up my shield. Crabs where a bit better but still had alot of misses when I wasn't wearing accu.

So yeah, don't dismiss accu.


As for the clubs, I've become a fan of single-wielding my perdu and soloing mobs as /SCH on campaign. Perdu's high dot, added attack/accu, and low delay are perfect when paired with Auspice's Enlight. And it's a solid choice for both Hexa and Mystic as well.

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#9 May 21 2009 at 12:38 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Do not use accuracy for Mystic Boon (or any single hit melee WSs). You have capped accuracy for almost any situation


Uhh, no.
#10 May 21 2009 at 10:36 AM Rating: Default
Edited by bsphil
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It's capped accuracy for the first hit of all WSs. Unless you can prove that Mystic Boon is the one WS that is somehow immune to what the first hit of ALL MELEE WSs HAVE, then I would say it has capped accuracy.
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#11 May 21 2009 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
It's capped accuracy for the first hit of all WSs. Unless you can prove that Mystic Boon is the one WS that is somehow immune to what the first hit of ALL MELEE WSs HAVE, then I would say it has capped accuracy.
Allow me to refer you to True Strike and its ~1% accuracy at 100% TP.
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#12 May 21 2009 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It's capped accuracy for the first hit of all WSs. Unless you can prove that Mystic Boon is the one WS that is somehow immune to what the first hit of ALL MELEE WSs HAVE, then I would say it has capped accuracy.


Absolutely not. Have you even USED Mystic Boon against a remotely difficult target before?

On anything where my standard WHM melee accuracy is not ideal (which is quite a lot, because I don't have club merits and my WHM has significantly less accuracy gear than my RDM has), Mystic Boon ends up whiffing a lot too, definitely more than 5%. Maybe it still has higher accuracy than my standard strikes, I don't know, but any boost (if there is one) is definitely not enough to ensure capped accuracy. The fact you think it is says to me that you haven't even tried it.

And it ain't just Mystic Boon either. If you're fighting IT+ sh*t or whatever and your standard melee accuracy is not ideal, 1-hitter WSs in general are very likely to whiff as well for other jobs/weapon types. Don't even get me started on how many times I've whiffed a Flat Blade stun on something I really needed it to land on.

Edited, May 21st 2009 3:47pm by Fynlar
#13 May 21 2009 at 1:26 PM Rating: Good
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True Strike, Mystic Boon, Full Swing, and Heavy Swing are some 1-hit WS's on top of my head that most certainly do not have any sort of (Noticeable) accuracy bonus.

Like I've said, not all WS's are Tachi: Gekko.
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#14 May 21 2009 at 7:01 PM Rating: Decent
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I've missed Mystic Boon several times in mage gear.
#15 May 22 2009 at 1:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Idiot level question (I know only a little about melee):

I have perdu and martial and mess around with them both in Campaign. Am I still benefitting from the perdu's latents when offhanding? I know I need martial in my main hand.

I have access to a ton of melee gear (O Hat, Walmart, Rev Mail, Goliard (for haste), Swift belt, Jaeger ring,Hydra brais, Chiv chain, brutal/suppa etc) so I tend to /NIN. Love messing around on it but haven't done anything sensible like setting up a tp and ws set, which I really should.

Edited, May 22nd 2009 9:08am by eldelphia
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#16 May 22 2009 at 2:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
You have very big boosts in the 2ndary mods, with 30% STR and 50% MND, so every 2MND adds 1 base damage and every 3STR should add ~2 dmg (depending on VIT of mob).


That's not exactly how it works. Depending on your level, your modifiers get decreased. See http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Calculating_Weapon_Skill_Damage for the specifics.
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#17 May 22 2009 at 10:20 AM Rating: Default
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zellbaca wrote:
Quote:
You have very big boosts in the 2ndary mods, with 30% STR and 50% MND, so every 2MND adds 1 base damage and every 3STR should add ~2 dmg (depending on VIT of mob).


That's not exactly how it works. Depending on your level, your modifiers get decreased. See http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Calculating_Weapon_Skill_Damage for the specifics.


I wasn't going for 100% accurate specific calculations I was going for rough numbers to give the OP a general impression of what to look for. The decision process is negligibly effected by the inaccuracies of my description :P
If I were getting specific I'd have to pull out everything from weapon rank to relative mob skill ratings :P
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#18 May 22 2009 at 11:15 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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JingWoo wrote:
I've missed Mystic Boon several times in mage gear.
Lern2AccCaps. Let's look at the parse data I got when camping Herder's Subligar. I'm on SAM75/RNG37 killing level 30 mobs.

Weaponskill Damage 
Player                 WSkill Dmg   WSkill %  Hit/Miss   WS.Acc %   WS.Low/Hi   WS.Avg 
Bsphilar                   275727    77.99 %     144/7    95.36 %    464/3225  1914.77 
 - Sidewinder              261763    94.94 %     120/3    97.56 %   1266/3225  2181.36 
 - Tachi: Gekko             13964     5.06 %      24/4    85.71 %     464/944   581.83 


Only an 85% hit rate on tachi: gekko zomg I NEED TEH ACC. When collecting a larger sample size of WSs (read: sidewinder), suddenly it's capped (AND STILL MISSING 5% OF THE TIME), when sidewinder is notorious for having terrible accuracy and melee WSs are the ones that are supposed to have the accuracy bonuses. Human nature is at a predisposition to focus on the failures and skim over the successes, so while you may have missed a couple of WSs that you really needed to land, you've been ignoring the dozens that landed just fine.

So no, parse it or GTFO. Don't come and tell me that "oh I've missed several times" as an excuse for needing accuracy gear, because all the facts are stacked against you right now. If you can substantially prove that Mystic Boon is immune to this benefit that affects all melee WSs, fine, I'll believe you.

The accuracy bonuses on WS are not exclusive as you're depicting them to be. The first tests on WS accuracy that I can recall were done with Wasp Sting from a NIN wearing tanking gear. He had something like 68% accuracy on EM mobs, but still managed 95% hit rate on WS.

MDenham wrote:
bsphil wrote:
It's capped accuracy for the first hit of all WSs. Unless you can prove that Mystic Boon is the one WS that is somehow immune to what the first hit of ALL MELEE WSs HAVE, then I would say it has capped accuracy.
Allow me to refer you to True Strike and its ~1% accuracy at 100% TP.


Unequipping and reequipping a warp cudgel on my SAM then meditating with no meditate gear is saying otherwise.

Edited, May 22nd 2009 2:24pm by bsphil
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#19 May 22 2009 at 12:24 PM Rating: Good
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Unequipping and reequipping a warp cudgel on my SAM then meditating with no meditate gear is saying otherwise.


So you're asking for proof, citing that it all can be attributed to human eye; and then proceed to do a single WS and base your argument about that.

Also, I'll go WS some colibri right now. Be back in 30

So I went out and smacked some lolibri. Turns out he's right <_<

Didn't miss a single Mystic without my accu gear (~32% Hitrate). I did went 1/2 on the only true strikes I did, however; which proves nothing.

But this still doesn't explain missing 4 in a row against mandies. I'm guessing right now that that was a case of guard? I do remember seing a mob "Miss", while recieving Guard skillups. So maybe it works for MNK mobs as well when we weaponskill?

Either way, I'm kinda glad he's right (Even after eating my own words). It just means I can pile up on Mods now.



Edited, May 22nd 2009 4:14pm by Drakonite
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#20 May 22 2009 at 1:27 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
MDenham wrote:
bsphil wrote:
It's capped accuracy for the first hit of all WSs. Unless you can prove that Mystic Boon is the one WS that is somehow immune to what the first hit of ALL MELEE WSs HAVE, then I would say it has capped accuracy.
Allow me to refer you to True Strike and its ~1% accuracy at 100% TP.


Unequipping and reequipping a warp cudgel on my SAM then meditating with no meditate gear is saying otherwise.
Let's see. I've missed every True Strike I've tried at 100% TP (which is about 10-12 tries because I realized it was pretty pointless). With capped accuracy, that's a 1-in-10-trillion or worse chance (and this is against mobs that I'd have capped accuracy against anyway!).

There's "eyeballing is inaccurate" and then there's "something is obviously wrong". This falls into the latter category.
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#21 May 22 2009 at 3:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
So no, parse it or GTFO. Don't come and tell me that "oh I've missed several times" as an excuse for needing accuracy gear, because all the facts are stacked against you right now. If you can substantially prove that Mystic Boon is immune to this benefit that affects all melee WSs, fine, I'll believe you.


It may be true that Mystic Boon gets higher accuracy than your regular strikes. It's absolute baloney that it becomes "capped" on virtually anything, though. I do not have anywhere near 95% hit rate on it on pretty much anything EM or higher, and on such targets I've actually come to expect frequent whiffs on it to the point where I just use Hexa instead for more consistency.

This is not a matter of me just noticing the whiffs more than the successes, because then I'd be noticing them on any mob, not just the difficult ones.

Quote:
There's "eyeballing is inaccurate" and then there's "something is obviously wrong". This falls into the latter category.


Even though he's talking about another matter altogether (I haven't used True Strike much), this.
#22 May 22 2009 at 3:53 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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MDenham wrote:
bsphil wrote:
MDenham wrote:
bsphil wrote:
It's capped accuracy for the first hit of all WSs. Unless you can prove that Mystic Boon is the one WS that is somehow immune to what the first hit of ALL MELEE WSs HAVE, then I would say it has capped accuracy.
Allow me to refer you to True Strike and its ~1% accuracy at 100% TP.


Unequipping and reequipping a warp cudgel on my SAM then meditating with no meditate gear is saying otherwise.
Let's see. I've missed every True Strike I've tried at 100% TP (which is about 10-12 tries because I realized it was pretty pointless). With capped accuracy, that's a 1-in-10-trillion or worse chance (and this is against mobs that I'd have capped accuracy against anyway!).

There's "eyeballing is inaccurate" and then there's "something is obviously wrong". This falls into the latter category.
I haven't done any extensive testing, but from all of the WSs I've done so far with that meditate method to get exactly 100 TP hasn't given me a single miss yet.

Drakonite wrote:
Quote:
Unequipping and reequipping a warp cudgel on my SAM then meditating with no meditate gear is saying otherwise.


So you're asking for proof, citing that it all can be attributed to human eye; and then proceed to do a single WS and base your argument about that.
I never said I did a single WS, I described the method I used to collect WS data (mainly how I get precisely 100 TP).

Edited, May 22nd 2009 6:55pm by bsphil
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#23 May 22 2009 at 4:24 PM Rating: Default
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doesn't zanshin proc on WS though? :/
I don't know anything about capped accuracy with single hit weapon skills, I noticed the accuracy on Shell Crusher seemed to be significantly higher than the accuracy on Spirit Taker, infact I don't think I've ever missed with Shell Crusher :P But before I started using Ohat on my Spirit Takers I was getting more frequent failrates. As has been stated a 1/20 miss from a weaponskill infact makes it less likely (assuming both are randomly distributed and independent) to miss than it is for a PCC to drop in UO (9%). I haven't read anything on the subject and can't really find links to serious data on the matter, it could very well be true phil certainly seems to think so ;p It might not apply to all weaponskills, it might even just be an accuracy bonus it'd take a while to find out ;/
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#24 May 22 2009 at 8:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Bsphil, you're citing TW mobs as your sample size in that parser. Of ******* course you're going to have capped acc. If you didn't something is HORRIBLY wrong.
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#25 May 22 2009 at 9:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Morente wrote:
Bsphil, you're citing TW mobs as your sample size in that parser. Of @#%^ing course you're going to have capped acc. If you didn't something is HORRIBLY wrong.
Once again I'll point you to my personal experience, which was at ~64 against stuff in Lower Delkfutt's. (Specifically, it was before I got Judgment.) Capped melee accuracy does precisely jack **** for you with True Strike; its accuracy formula is farkin' weird.
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#26 May 22 2009 at 11:56 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Once again I'll point you to my personal experience, which was at ~64 against stuff in Lower Delkfutt's. (Specifically, it was before I got Judgment.) Capped melee accuracy does precisely jack sh*t for you with True Strike; its accuracy formula is farkin' weird.


I'm not touching True Strike with a 10-foot pole, but in the case of Bsphil's parse he's using Sidewinder and Tachi:Gekko. There's no reason for a 75 naked to be having issues capping acc on mid-20 to high-30 mobs for either of those WS just based on level corrections.
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