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Bored Druid Thread: The Next GenerationFollow

#152 Aug 25 2013 at 6:26 AM Rating: Good
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Horsemouth wrote:
the new title is far more fitting tbh

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#153 Aug 25 2013 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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Out of all the comfortable, easily accessible and high places in my apartment, this is clearly the best one.

Screenshot
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#154 Aug 25 2013 at 10:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Clearly. What's the point of a perch if you don't have to contort yourself to fit in there?

Also new title is better, you're still not quite the elitist @#%^ you used to be though. Maybe we just need a better topic? Beer?

Edited, Aug 25th 2013 9:20am by someproteinguy
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#155 Aug 25 2013 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Whoah.


LOOK AT MAH TITLE! Smiley: grin
Nice. He even spelled it right.


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#156 Aug 25 2013 at 10:33 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Also new title is better, you're still not quite the elitist @#%^ you used to be though. Maybe we just need a better topic? Beer?
I think I lost most of my anger while trying to lead raids.

******* Princes was an easy fight and people kept ******* **** up. Smiley: motz
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YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
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Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#157 Aug 25 2013 at 10:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
A raid warning will call out when Hodir begins casting Flash Freeze, at which point two large, light blue circles will appear on the ground. DO NOT stand in these circles, until icicles have fallen on them to leave a clearly visible mound of snow. As soon as the snow mound appears, EVERYBODY (tank included) must stand on these mounds, or they will be encased in flash freezes, and must be broken out immediately. The NPCs will also be frozen, and should be freed as soon as possible.

GET ON THE ******* SNOW PILE. Smiley: motz

Smiley: banghead

Smiley: mad
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#158 Aug 25 2013 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
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I was still with my first serious raiding guild back then, anyone who failed that twice got kicked from the raid.


It didn't take us long to get him down. Also the first time I was in the top 3 DPS in that guild.
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Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#159 Aug 25 2013 at 11:11 AM Rating: Good
Fights these days are so much harder than they were back then. Lei-Shen (final boss of the current tier) normal mode is way harder than most of the Ulduar hardmodes, and definitely harder than ICC normal mode except for probably the Lich King.
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#160 Aug 25 2013 at 11:14 AM Rating: Good
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Ulduar was pretty good for a second tier, Trial of the Crusader and ICC were ******* terrible though. You could ignore tactics in Trial on heroic and the first wing of ICC took us 45 minutes to clear as progress.
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YOU'RE AN ELITIST @#%^ AETHIEN, NO WONDER YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND PEOPLE HATE YOU.
someproteinguy wrote:
Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
Astarin wrote:
One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#161 Aug 25 2013 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
Trial was terrible for me because it was so obviously filler content. I hated that tier.

The first wing of ICC was meant to be faceroll easy, though. Lootship and Lord Lootogar were there to provide pugs with easy gear. The raid didn't really start getting difficult for me until the Plague wing.
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#162 Aug 25 2013 at 11:20 AM Rating: Good
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Plague wing was easy as **** too. I didn't raid seriously anymore after that but I don't think the plague wing took us more than an hour or two to clear.

Ulduar was good though, Yogg Saron was pretty difficult and doing the achievements wasn't that easy either.
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Aethien you take more terrible pictures than a Japanese tourist.
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One day, Maz, you'll learn not to click on anything Aeth links.
#163 Aug 25 2013 at 11:31 AM Rating: Good
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The other side of things is that we don't really get many newcomers here, anymore. And 9 times out of 10, when we tell them they'll need to post actual details if they want help, they never reappear.

Hard to be elitist when no one is posting. And I suppose when you aren't playing the game anymore. Smiley: lol

Also hard to be elitist when, at this point, if someone doesn't get something they should just be punted in the head. Nowadays, if you can't play your class, you've put in literally no effort to try to. Not understanding an encounter, I get. Having terrible skills and bad itemization on your gear, I don't. It could not be more obvious.

Then again, I remember the days of Hunter Weapons.
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#164 Aug 25 2013 at 11:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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I remember having the most problems with mechanics that had the potential to separate you from the group. So I'm raid healing, and now there's a giant pile of goo between me and what I need to heal or something. Greatest fear of a raid healer I guess... Smiley: lol

The hodir thing was just particularly memorable since that's where our raid group broke up. I don't know that we had more trouble there than other places, but we tended to lose our other healer(s) which pretty much doomed us. Valithria was a problem too. Don't know how many times I came out of the dream/portal/thingy to a dead raid group, before we switched, only to end up with the same person who couldn't manage to get any reasonable stack of the buff. Smiley: rolleyes

IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:
Fights these days are so much harder than they were back then. Lei-Shen (final boss of the current tier) normal mode is way harder than most of the Ulduar hardmodes, and definitely harder than ICC normal mode except for probably the Lich King.
That's what I keep hearing. Something like they have too many people who have gotten way too good at not standing in fire over the years, so they've had to add more in to keep them challenged.
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#165 Aug 25 2013 at 11:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Then again, I remember the days of Hunter Weapons.

If you liked it then you should have rolled need on it?

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#166 Aug 25 2013 at 11:58 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Then again, I remember the days of Hunter Weapons.

If you liked it then you should have rolled need on it?
I think he means slow weapons > anything else due to the totally ****** up itemization and lack of weapon normalization (i.e. before all weapon damage was converted to a 2.8 speed weapon for weapon dmg based abilities)
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#167 Aug 25 2013 at 12:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ahh ok.

Whenever I hear 'hunter weapon' I remember back to people griping about hunters rolling on everything they could use; which was just about everything.
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#168 Aug 25 2013 at 12:28 PM Rating: Good
someproteinguy wrote:
IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:
Fights these days are so much harder than they were back then. Lei-Shen (final boss of the current tier) normal mode is way harder than most of the Ulduar hardmodes, and definitely harder than ICC normal mode except for probably the Lich King.
That's what I keep hearing. Something like they have too many people who have gotten way too good at not standing in fire over the years, so they've had to add more in to keep them challenged.


Pretty much the case. You have the weird system where frequent raiders have become much better than raiders were back in Vanilla or whatever, so Blizzard makes harder raids to keep them challenged. But then there are still newcomers to the game, and people who have never really raided before, and don't have the almost decade of experience the raiders do. So Blizzard makes easier modes like LFR to keep them happy, too. And then there's the issue of there being a huge gap between LFR, which is faceroll easy, and Normal, which can actually get pretty freaking challenging at times. So Blizzard is making Flexible Mode, which is a raid that works for IIRC between 8 and 25 people, and difficulty wise is in between LFR and Normal modes. This way groups of friends or whatever can bring who they want and still face a challenge, but doesn't require a set number of people like Normal or the crazy tight coordination of Heroic modes these days.
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#169 Aug 25 2013 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Ahh ok.

Whenever I hear 'hunter weapon' I remember back to people griping about hunters rolling on everything they could use; which was just about everything.


No this is what I meant, but Aeth gave me a crap ton of nostalgia... Remember when Paladins were absurdly powerful because of that one seal (SoR, iirc) gave them ungodly auto attacks? Smiley: lol. Was fun for the short time it lasted. Then they got needed to ****... Meaning they needed that seal and the rest stayed just as useless as ever.

And flexible mode sounds like something they should have put in years ago.

Edited, Aug 25th 2013 3:05pm by idiggory
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#170 Aug 25 2013 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
And flexible mode sounds like something they should have put in years ago.


this a thousand times
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#171 Aug 25 2013 at 2:50 PM Rating: Good
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It's actually really weird it hasn't. I mean, the balance between hardcore, casual, and average raiders was being highly felt in Wrath. Even if they've had to stretch the difficulty further in the other direction, flexible mode still would have been a really nice feature to have.
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#172 Aug 25 2013 at 3:41 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Remember when Paladins were absurdly powerful because of that one seal (SoR, iirc) gave them ungodly auto attacks? Smiley: lol. Was fun for the short time it lasted. Then they got needed to ****... Meaning they needed that seal and the rest stayed just as useless as ever.


Seal of Command.

That was back when Shaman could wield the Sulfuras and instagib people with back-to-back Windfury procs.

Then they started putting things into boxes and it all went down from there. Smiley: frown
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#173 Aug 25 2013 at 4:00 PM Rating: Good
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
It's actually really weird it hasn't. I mean, the balance between hardcore, casual, and average raiders was being highly felt in Wrath. Even if they've had to stretch the difficulty further in the other direction, flexible mode still would have been a really nice feature to have.


The way they described Flex Mode was that it was pretty much a natural extension of the scaling systems that only went into place with MoP. Stuff like Challenge Modes, where your gear is scaled down to a certain ilevel in order to keep things fair, and the item upgrading in exchange for valor points system were really almost prerequisites for Flex Mode. There was a large foundation laid in MoP for other reasons, and Flex Mode evolved naturally out of existing work that had already been done.

You see, Flex Raids scale the boss's health and mechanics based on the number of people in your raid. The goal is to have a mode available that can be completed by social groups that may not always have a full roster of 25 people, or might want to bring in a friend of one of the raiders, or whatever. We really only saw this health scaling mechanic for the first time in 5.2 with the Isle of Thunder. There are a lot of elites and a lot of reasons to hunt for them, so rather than have it be a *********** AoE spamfest for the first tag, anyone on the same faction as the person who tags it gets credit and loot, and the elite's health just scales to account for the new people present.

If back in Wrath the devs decided that they wanted to implement Flex mode, then one of the tiers or maybe the expansion pack itself would have been delayed massively. They had to rush to get Wrath out, and reused Naxx to save time (still wish we got that Utgarde Keep raid). Ulduar was already in progress upon release, and still took them a while to get out. ToC was @#%^ing horrible filler, but the alternative was Ulduar for another six months while waiting for ICC. And then we ended up doing ICC for about a year.

My point is that they are implementing Flex Mode now because the systems required for scaling content were already there. Blizzard talks all the time about development being pretty much an allocation of resources. "We can have a class quest, or we can have a new zone" and the like. The WoW team is the largest right now that they have ever been, and before they probably wouldn't have had the resources to develop the Flex Mode tech in any reasonable amount of time.

As it stands, there's a massive amount of content coming in the next patch (5.4) on the 10th of September. There's a new raid with Garrosh as the end boss, Flex Raid difficulty, "Connected Realms" (server mergings), new legendaries, and the Timeless Isle, which is pretty much a new zone with a focus on exploration.

Edited, Aug 25th 2013 6:05pm by IDrownFish
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#174 Aug 25 2013 at 4:19 PM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Remember when Paladins were absurdly powerful because of that one seal (SoR, iirc) gave them ungodly auto attacks? Smiley: lol. Was fun for the short time it lasted. Then they got needed to ****... Meaning they needed that seal and the rest stayed just as useless as ever.


Seal of Command.

That was back when Shaman could wield the Sulfuras and instagib people with back-to-back Windfury procs.

Then they started putting things into boxes and it all went down from there. Smiley: frown


Ahhh, the good old days.

Fishy wrote:
Stuff


I see. Still, I can't help but feel like a lot of resources spent on Cata could have been better allocated on flex stuff. I mean, the sheer amount of content they cut to launch it was bad enough - had all of that been scrapped from the start, and their goals set slightly lower for the early game zones, it probably would have worked out.

Also, about time that ****** is going to die. I might resub for a month just in celebration of it.
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#175 Aug 25 2013 at 4:23 PM Rating: Good
If you do resub and end up at 90, it's fairly easy to get the required gear level for LFR. You could witness his death yourself (and be a part of it!)
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#176 Aug 25 2013 at 5:59 PM Rating: Good
IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:

Pretty much the case. You have the weird system where frequent raiders have become much better than raiders were back in Vanilla or whatever, so Blizzard makes harder raids to keep them challenged. But then there are still newcomers to the game, and people who have never really raided before, and don't have the almost decade of experience the raiders do. So Blizzard makes easier modes like LFR to keep them happy, too. And then there's the issue of there being a huge gap between LFR, which is faceroll easy, and Normal, which can actually get pretty freaking challenging at times. So Blizzard is making Flexible Mode, which is a raid that works for IIRC between 8 and 25 people, and difficulty wise is in between LFR and Normal modes. This way groups of friends or whatever can bring who they want and still face a challenge, but doesn't require a set number of people like Normal or the crazy tight coordination of Heroic modes these days.



The crazy faceroll of LFR is what ****** me off. Basically you can ignore 90% of the mechanics. I get up to a new fight in normal with my guild and still don't know fights even though I have done them over and over in LFR. The need to make it so that instead of ignoring the fire totally, you have more time to get out of it before it kills you. In normal you might have 1 sec to move before you take big damage. In LFR you might have 5 secs before it hits you. Things that improve your situational awareness and train you to actually be better.

As melee though, my biggest peeve is the overabundance of spell effects. There are times when I can't even see which way the boss is facing! They keep talking about fixing it but nothing happens. Shouldn't be too hard to turn everyone elses effects down except yours.

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#177 Aug 25 2013 at 6:22 PM Rating: Good
I think the reason LFR is so easy is so that people can see the content, regardless of their skill level. As far as actually improving goes, they're developing the Proving Grounds, which are scenarios that drop you into a group full of NPCs and have you complete objectives like you were in a dungeon. It's a cool training feature that accomplishes something LFR can't/doesn't.

You are right about the spell effects, though. Holy **** is it crazy these days. I mean, it's awesome when you're solo and you shoot lightning like a sith lord or whatnot, but it's really difficult to see at times what the **** is going on.
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#178 Aug 25 2013 at 6:26 PM Rating: Good
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Nostalgia, yes! The first raid guild I joined, back in BC, almost broke up because of a shield that dropped in the . . . what the **** was his name . . . the bad boy with the ceiling. We had a new pally tank (joined the same week I did) and a warrior tank. Shield drops without any +mana or whatever the **** on it and pally tank wins the roll. All of a sudden vent erupts. Was cool to listen to but it meant nothing to me because I hardly knew anyone.

Fast forward, that pally tank becomes our main tank I become his main heals on my pally. Every time anything dropped that was remotely usable by another class and he rolled on it, I yelled "No! Warrior Shield!" and dropped from the group.

I miss Crashbash.


EDIT: Gruul! Dammit.



Edited, Aug 25th 2013 8:27pm by cynyck
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#179 Aug 25 2013 at 6:45 PM Rating: Good
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The spell effect blindness was a thing in wotlk too. Well, in the valkyrie fight in trial anyway if you did it the easy way.

The easy way was to huddle up all of the raid in the doorway with only 1 person getting a different colour and catching balls, using bloodlust to just power through the storm. Great for cleaving, sucky for hunters as getting enough range meant standing squished in a corner seeing nothing but waving shoulder pads.
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#180 Aug 25 2013 at 9:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Friar RareBeast wrote:
The crazy faceroll of LFR is what ****** me off. Basically you can ignore 90% of the mechanics.
I thought the same thing while watching over the wife's shoulder a couple of months back. Other than the occasional big mechanic (you know the kind where they give you 10 seconds to get out of the big circle of impending doom?), it seemed like you could stand there and spam stuff. Well assuming people didn't afk, and the healers actually healed, etc. Which appeared to be quite the problem at times... Smiley: rolleyes

His Excellency Aethien wrote:
meant standing squished in a corner seeing nothing but waving shoulder pads.
I'm suddenly having flashbacks to the last of the ICC 5-mans. Standing in that initial room, squished in the corner, seeing nothing but wall and spell casting. Smiley: lol


Edited, Aug 25th 2013 8:59pm by someproteinguy
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#181 Aug 25 2013 at 11:48 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
meant standing squished in a corner seeing nothing but waving shoulder pads.
I'm suddenly having flashbacks to the last of the ICC 5-mans. Standing in that initial room, squished in the corner, seeing nothing but wall and spell casting. Smiley: lol


How about the Tempest Keep trash pulls. Those two rooms where everyone stood on top of one another in the corners?

[/cast Holy Light] [/cast Holy Light] [/cast Cleanse] [/cast Holy Light] [/cast Divine Intervention] . . . /say "Can I get a rez?"

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#182 Aug 26 2013 at 3:02 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
meant standing squished in a corner seeing nothing but waving shoulder pads.
I'm suddenly having flashbacks to the last of the ICC 5-mans. Standing in that initial room, squished in the corner, seeing nothing but wall and spell casting Smiley: lol
Think that but a much smaller corner and with 24 people.


Edit: Doorway on the right, 24 people in there with the bosses right up against it. You can imagine the difficulty in getting to minimum range as a hunter.

Edited, Aug 26th 2013 12:39pm by Aethien
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#183 Aug 26 2013 at 5:16 AM Rating: Good
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Oh god, the freaking tourney... I'd blocked that out.
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#184 Aug 26 2013 at 6:04 AM Rating: Good
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It wasn't even that the fights weren't great or that there as nothing to see but that you had to do it SO. MANY. TIMES.

4x per character per week, that **** was awful.
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#185 Aug 26 2013 at 7:00 AM Rating: Good
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Friar RareBeast wrote:
As melee though, my biggest peeve is the overabundance of spell effects.


As a melee, Druid in particular, my biggest peeve is that so many bosses feature "dance" mechanics. Ranged classes have close to zero disadvantages and can pump out insane damage. Melee has to dance around puddles of goo and use inferior attacks because the boss can't be hit from behind.

I've also come to realize the benefit of playing a class with no ramp-up time. I love my Druid to death (even with the loss of the hybrid spec), but my undergeared Warrior can just jump in and push the same damage as my Druid, without the ramp-up. I just mash buttons when they light up on my Fury Warrior and do an instant 25k DPS at level 85 in green gear. My Druid can push 26k at level 89 in blues, assuming I pop cooldowns and manage Savage Roar and Rip perfectly.

And what the **** happened to Feral Druid AOE? I can do one Thrash and one Swipe and I'm out of energy. There's no doubt that the Swipe spam was OP in Cataclysm, but holy crap, man. Survival Hunters can spam their AOE crap ad nauseam. I was doing barely 29k on AOE and the Death Knight and Hunter both pushed 35k+ like it was nothing.

Oh, well, time to try my Paladin again. Going to see if Retribution is as easy to manage as I think.
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#186 Aug 26 2013 at 8:04 AM Rating: Good
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Man, I remember when 2k dps was a lot...
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#187 Aug 26 2013 at 8:07 AM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Man, I remember when 2k dps was a lot...
"And then I left the beginning area."
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#188 Aug 26 2013 at 8:10 AM Rating: Good
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I meant in raids Smiley: frown
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#189 Aug 26 2013 at 9:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
Melee has to dance around puddles of goo and use inferior attacks because the boss can't be hit from behind.
Why DPS so low?

Smiley: disappointed
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#190 Aug 26 2013 at 9:24 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Mazra wrote:
Melee has to dance around puddles of goo and use inferior attacks because the boss can't be hit from behind.
Why DPS so low?

Smiley: disappointed
Kologarn aside, melee not being able to attack from behind is almost always the result of failure on the tank or the dps's part.

Edited, Aug 26th 2013 5:26pm by Aethien
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#191 Aug 26 2013 at 9:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, the DPS race still sucked for feral for a long time though (did they ever make it better?). Positional requirement will take longer than no-positional requirement in all but the best case scenarios, and the slow ramp up time on that meant if there was a minor hiccup their DPS was suffering. It was a nasty combination.

Heaven help you if you had to switch targets with any frequency. Smiley: rolleyes
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#192 Aug 26 2013 at 9:50 AM Rating: Good
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Oh, yeah. Feral dps was retarded.
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#193 Aug 26 2013 at 10:15 AM Rating: Excellent
Hunter DPS!!!
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#194 Aug 26 2013 at 10:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
Hunter DPS!!!
USE THE SPREADSHEET! Smiley: motz
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#195 Aug 26 2013 at 10:40 AM Rating: Good
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I just wish Feral DPS wasn't so reliant on Savage Roar. I really don't like that mechanic, and I also don't like how combo points work in this game. The points should stack on the Druid, who is doing the combo, instead of the target. Like in Rift. It's super silly that Druids and Rogues have to rebuild combo points when they switch targets.
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#196 Aug 26 2013 at 10:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Or at minimum something on a CD that gives you free combo points. 45 second CD, 3 free combo points on your target or something. Would reduce ramp up and make target switching less painful.
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#197 Aug 26 2013 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Or at minimum something on a CD that gives you free combo points. 45 second CD, 3 free combo points on your target or something. Would reduce ramp up and make target switching less painful.
But that is overpowered in PvP, free combo points on a short cooldown means huge burst damage.



Edit: I think in general, rotation is an absolutely terrible place to seek complexity. It has to be more than just holding down one button (LOLOL hunter macro spam) but Feral dps was (and from the sound of it, still is) ******* stupid.

Edited, Aug 26th 2013 7:51pm by Aethien
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#198 Aug 26 2013 at 11:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
someproteinguy wrote:
Or at minimum something on a CD that gives you free combo points. 45 second CD, 3 free combo points on your target or something. Would reduce ramp up and make target switching less painful.
But that is overpowered in PvP, free combo points on a short cooldown means huge burst damage.
Make finishing moves less powerful and combo-builders more powerful? Or just nerf the instant damage finisher (ferocious bite, was it?).
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#199 Aug 26 2013 at 11:52 AM Rating: Good
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But that would wreck druids in PvP since consistent damage is meaningless in PvP.
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#200 Aug 26 2013 at 11:56 AM Rating: Good
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All this balancing talk makes me glad I have lost all desire for MMOs.
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#201 Aug 26 2013 at 11:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
But that would wreck druids in PvP since consistent damage is meaningless in PvP.
No worries we'll just extend their stun duration by a second to give them extra time to do damage.
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