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[Paladin] Advise for a Resto Shaman trying Pally healingFollow

#1 Nov 06 2011 at 6:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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So my paladin hit level 85 a few weeks ago, and I've tried healing a couple instances, with less than stellar results. Part of it is gear, obviously, but also I can't get used to the difference in playstyle.

Any general tips/tricks for going from shammy healing to pally healing?
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#2 Nov 06 2011 at 6:26 PM Rating: Good
Not to hijack your thread, but I totally misread the title. I read it as "Paladin Advice for a Resto Shaman: Try Pally healing."

I was all ready to come in here and be all "Oh snap." I am disappoint.
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#3 Nov 07 2011 at 3:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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I've dabbled a bit in Paladin healing, with my main healing class being the Shaman. Overall I'd say the two styles are very similar, with a few exceptions:

1. No passive healing or mana regen. If someone takes damage, you have to target that person and heal up. If you need mana, you have to judge your seal on an enemy. No Water Shield, no Healing Stream Totem, no Ancestral Awakening to spread out your healing.

2. Limited AOE healing. Dawn of Light is a frontal cone spell that requires Holy Power (generated through Holy Shock and crits or something) and Holy Radiance is a fire-and-forget AOE HoT that radiates out from you. Both spells require some positioning to be efficient, unlike Healing Rain and Chain Heal which just require you to cast them on the group that needs it.

3. Group focus vs tank focus. As a Shaman, I'm used to prioritizing the tank over everyone else, because Ancestral Awakening, Chain Heal and Healing Stream Totem can keep the DPS up most of the time. As a Paladin, due to Beacon of Light, you focus a lot more on the group. If the tank and a DPS needs healing, you heal the DPS and the healing gets copied to the tank. You have to decide if the BoL transfer is enough to keep the tank up, otherwise you have to switch to the tank and let the DPS drop.

The Holy Power mechanic annoys me a little, because I feel like it limits my use of abilities. I also feel like I'm using weaker spells just to activate stronger heals for later use. You have to think two steps ahead, whereas Shaman healing is almost purely reactive.

All in all, I prefer Shaman healing because of the strong AOE coupled with very good ST healing. The Paladin is to direct healing what the Druid is to AOE healing and vice versa. The Shaman is somewhere in between and it suits me better.

Oh, and you'll probably find yourself looking frantically for your Chain Heal at some point. I know I did when a group of people started taking damage and I didn't have enough Holy Power for Dawn of Light.

Still, it's a fun healing class if you enjoy Shaman healing. Much easier to be good at than Druid healing, at least in 5-mans. In my experience.

Edited, Nov 7th 2011 10:47am by Mazra
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#4 Nov 07 2011 at 6:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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That's been my impression so far. I'm still trying to figure out how to work Holy Shock in, because it's definitely not Riptide, and when to use WoG vs saving HP for LoD. Also, just generating HP, because I'm used to using my efficient heal (from playing Shaman, where it casts really fast under Tidal Waves). Because HW and GHW cast so quickly (again, under Tidal Waves), Holy Light and Divine Light feal really, REALLY slow.
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#5 Nov 07 2011 at 8:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, the slow casts put me off to begin with as well, but the heals seem to be much more powerful than the Shaman equivalents, perhaps to compensate. I found that my Holy Light hit for around 8k at 4.7k spell power, which is almost the same as Healing Wave at 8k spell power.

Weaving Holy Shock into it is a bit of a challenge. It seems to be more powerful than Riptide on the initial hit, but lacks the HoT. Your regular heals also seem to give you an extra Holy Shock once in a while and your Holy Shock crits reduce the cast time of your regular heals.

It's all very... interwoven.

One additional thing about Paladin healing is that you've got a crap-load of cooldowns. Guardian of Ancient Kings, Divine Favor, Avenging Wrath, Aura Mastery, Hand of Sacrifice, Lay on Hands. Lots of stuff you can hit in emergencies. Unfortunately, I found that whenever emergencies arose, I was so busy casting Divine Light everywhere, I didn't have time to pop cooldowns. Smiley: facepalm

I'm used to only handling Nature's Swiftness and Mana Tide Totem. The latter I've used maybe twice in the last month.
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#6 Nov 07 2011 at 12:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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AstarintheDruid wrote:
That's been my impression so far. I'm still trying to figure out how to work Holy Shock in, because it's definitely not Riptide, and when to use WoG vs saving HP for LoD. Also, just generating HP, because I'm used to using my efficient heal (from playing Shaman, where it casts really fast under Tidal Waves). Because HW and GHW cast so quickly (again, under Tidal Waves), Holy Light and Divine Light feal really, REALLY slow.

As Mazra said, "interwoven" is a good word for pally healing. Up until 4.3, Haste was the best secondary stat for throughput, and it contributed to subjectively speeding up the long-cast spells. In fact, even if it might not be clearly tops any longer, a lot of healadins are keeping quite a bit just for the "feel", on the PTR.

As to when to use LoD, that's very simple. "25-man raids". Possibly 10-man Chimaeron. If it was off the GCD and didn't use HP, that /might/ be another story. But as it is, there just won't be enough targets to make it worthwhile, and you won't have a 3-stack at the exact same time they need it even if you did. And you have a better AoE spell in Holy Radiance, that in 4.3 won't even have to be targeted on yourself. There are very few situations that HR-HS-HL-WoG1-HS-HL-WoG1 won't save that would have been helped in any way by even a LoD3.

Building up HP is individual playstyle. I tend to lean towards one DL on my beacon target (net one HP) over two HL on the raid (net zero) - mind you, you should always be casting HL when you're doing nothing more important, anyway (it's basically mana-neutral). You do have to learn how to weave HS in, but there has basically always been one weave in Judgement already (4.3 will turn this from a weave to a periodic refresh). Some people try to do an extra weave using Crusader Strike (since you should mostly be in melee range of the boss anyway for seal procs from autoattack), but I consider this excessive.

Plus, there are a bunch of cooldowns, not just Wings, GAnK, and the other one, but the Hand spells can be extremely effective (particularly Sacrifice - which BC healadins learned to use at Maiden of Virtue - and Protection). And Lay on Hands, where the cooldown is so short now that it can be used for every other boss try.

TL;DR - Always Be Casting (holy light), ignore LoD, Haste Is Good (just not clearly the best anymore), Holy Shock and Judgement on cooldown (until 4.3)
#7 Nov 07 2011 at 6:16 PM Rating: Excellent
Thanks for this thread. My Pally just hit 85 and is going to be holy, but I haven't had a chance to sit down and sort through all the different spells, cooldowns & mechanics yet. EJ's has stat weightings, glyphs and much more but doesn't actually go through HOW to heal as a pally - they just kind of assume you know that stuff already.

This nice little intro to Pally healing has been very helpful.

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#8 Nov 07 2011 at 8:34 PM Rating: Good
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ElMuneco, I read on EJ that Word of Glory has been devalued a lot due to Light of Dawn and the Beacon of Light transfer you get from it.

Word of Glory is more single target healing, but Light of Dawn can heal, what, six people, including yourself and the tank, and then it transfers 50% of that to the tank. Thanks to MSBT's compressing of hits, I noticed BoL transferred a good 30k to the tank when I used Light of Dawn on the melee group.
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#9 Nov 08 2011 at 4:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Friar RareBeast wrote:
Thanks for this thread. My Pally just hit 85 and is going to be holy, but I haven't had a chance to sit down and sort through all the different spells, cooldowns & mechanics yet. EJ's has stat weightings, glyphs and much more but doesn't actually go through HOW to heal as a pally - they just kind of assume you know that stuff already.

This nice little intro to Pally healing has been very helpful.


If you notice, the first post in the EJ Holy Pally thread also hasn't been updated in almost 8 months. I was sorta hoping to attract Bhodi, since I know he plays a Holy Pally and a Resto Shaman, but in any event, I'm thinking of going Prot/Ret on my pally and making my priest (78 now) my second healer. I'm used to chain heal and healing rain, so I don't like not having an on-demand AoE heal.
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#10 Nov 08 2011 at 11:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
ElMuneco, I read on EJ that Word of Glory has been devalued a lot due to Light of Dawn and the Beacon of Light transfer you get from it.

Word of Glory is more single target healing, but Light of Dawn can heal, what, six people, including yourself and the tank, and then it transfers 50% of that to the tank. Thanks to MSBT's compressing of hits, I noticed BoL transferred a good 30k to the tank when I used Light of Dawn on the melee group.

Yeah, in 25-man (which I don't do), when you have a reasonable chance of hitting more than three or so people, the beacon transfer (more than the actual heal itself, I think) maths out to more throughput. I'm probably more adamant against it than most people because I see it being used so often when it's clearly inappropriate, in 5-mans (with at most two targets, including the tank) or during periods when a 10-man raid group is dispersed rather than collected - or used as a primary AoE group heal rather than a way of triggering multiple beacon transfers.
#11 Nov 08 2011 at 12:12 PM Rating: Good
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I use it a lot in 5-mans. It has a 30-yard range, so it's not like you have to be piggybacking the tank for it to hit the melee group.

Hell, most ranged classes stand well within 30 yards of the melee group, so you could run to the melee DPS and aim the Flashlight at your ranged DPS and hit those as well.

I've no problem getting the most out of Chain Heal either. Maybe I'm just the only healer who moves during a fight. Smiley: tongue
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#12 Nov 26 2011 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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AstarintheDruid wrote:
I was sorta hoping to attract Bhodi



Why Hello, how you doin? Next time send me a PM and I will come along and answer in a timely manner.


In a 5 man setting WoG trumps LoD 8 times out of 10. There are exceptions to the rule, and lucky times when everyone is low and infront of you and you can hit it and get its full effect.


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#13 Nov 28 2011 at 9:37 AM Rating: Excellent
I must be the only one, but the only healer I could never get into is pally healing. I can do shaman, druid and priest... but pally... It's SO boring to me =(

Maybe things have changed since the last time I tried it *shrug*
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#14 Nov 28 2011 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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I guess that depends on when the last time you tried it was...

Feels like the syntax is messed up in that sentence.
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#15 Nov 28 2011 at 4:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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xNocturnalSunx wrote:
I must be the only one, but the only healer I could never get into is pally healing. I can do shaman, druid and priest... but pally... It's SO boring to me =(

Maybe things have changed since the last time I tried it *shrug*

Not just you, I played around with Pally healing for about a week, and I really couldn't get into it. That's why I started this thread, but the advice here didn't really change my mind. I have a priest, shaman, and druid at 85, so I just heal with my shaman and priest now. My Druid is Feral/Feral, and my pally main-specs Prot.
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#16 Nov 28 2011 at 5:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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xNocturnalSunx wrote:
I must be the only one, but the only healer I could never get into is pally healing. I can do shaman, druid and priest... but pally... It's SO boring to me =(

Maybe things have changed since the last time I tried it *shrug*


I tried, but kept wondering where the **** my Prayer of Healing was.
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#17 Nov 29 2011 at 9:04 AM Rating: Good
Oh Maz...


(and it's been a while. At least as long a my break lol)
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#18 Nov 29 2011 at 10:00 AM Rating: Good
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Let's assume I don't keep a record of your activities. When did you start your break?
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#19 Nov 29 2011 at 10:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
Let's assume I don't keep a record of your activities. I want it to look like I don't cyber-stalk you, so I'm going to ask when did you start your break?

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#20 Nov 29 2011 at 10:12 AM Rating: Good
Haha, I had been off the game for about 8 months. Just recently reactivated.
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#21 Nov 29 2011 at 10:15 AM Rating: Good
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I don't stalk, I monitor.

You know... in case something might happen to people that would require my immediate... assistance.

Edit: 8 months? I have no idea what has happened since then. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to update... something.

Edited, Nov 29th 2011 5:18pm by Mazra
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#22 Dec 04 2011 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent
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I have a Paladin, Shaman & Priest.

Resto Shamans in this expansion are no bueno. They have been dramatically underpowered mainly because Blizzard seems unable to balance them between 10/25. If they were made more competitive in a 10 man setting they would probably destroy in 25, so Blizz seems to keep them nerfed as if they don't know what to do with them.

They also have the basic core set as a paladin, HW = HL, GWH = DL, Surge = FoL, Riptide = Holy Shock. ES balances out Beacon. The glyph for HW doesn't match up to PotI, and the Riptide haste proc balances out with our reduced healing proc etc. The main differences is DR vs HR & LoD vs Chain Heal, also Paladins have more utility & oh s'hit buttons.

On the whole Cataclysm Holy Paladins have lot more going on, with procs, holy power, AM, Hand spells, Wings, Guardian, DF, DP, etc. My resto sham is a snooze fest right now.


Meanwhile 4.3 Holy paladins are too strong, and I would be surprised if we don't see a nerf. I pulled 25k sustained HPS for most boss fights in LFR DS. Which is just dumb, our new Divine Radiance is pretty fricking strong.
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