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#1 May 20 2011 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
Just curious to hear what other Boomies strats are for Cho'gall. If our raid leader decides our dps is more up to snuff this week for us to give him a shot again, I'm going to try using Hurricane with the slow glyph on top of the slow that mushrooms give, and see if that helps.
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#2 May 20 2011 at 5:02 PM Rating: Good
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Wonder Gem PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Just curious to hear what other Boomies strats are for Cho'gall. If our raid leader decides our dps is more up to snuff this week for us to give him a shot again, I'm going to try using Hurricane with the slow glyph on top of the slow that mushrooms give, and see if that helps.

Forget the Hurricane, really.
First big add, place mushrooms where he is being tanked (top of the stairs) and wait for the adds to pop after he dies.
Second big add, same thing, but put one of the mushrooms on the first pool, just to slow them down.
Third big add, spread those mushrooms.
After you cast the shrooms, dot them and when they are about to cross the slow area, typhoon them. Keep dotting and place shrooms again. Now kill them =]
#3 May 20 2011 at 5:05 PM Rating: Good
That is what I have been doing, but you need to limit its use or find yourself OOM really quick. For the first wave I wouldn't bother as there aren't enough of them to make the mana cost worth it. If you can manage it, 2 healers makes the fight a lot easier too, as you will usually have one less add phase which makes a big difference to peoples levels of corruption.

Mushrooms (assuming you have the slow talent) are really fantastic for this fight - and in general really :)

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#4 May 20 2011 at 5:22 PM Rating: Good
Yeah, I just have issues getting the timing right on moving adds with Mushrooms. =/ I have a tendency to detonate them too early. That is a good point about not using Hurricane on the first set of adds though, not sure I would have thought of that. >.> I was thinking about doubling up on mushrooms and Hurricane to help with the slows. This week at the very least, since our DK is going to have to tank so he won't be frost specced. Slows will pretty much be on me. =/
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#5 May 20 2011 at 5:32 PM Rating: Good
We have a hunter trap, so it is less of an issue for us. Killing the big adds in a good position means that you can funnell them all through the one trap and I just place my mushrooms just after the trap, so it slows and bunches them all up.

We kill the first 2 big guys just at the top of the steps near the door, one on the left and one on the right but as close to the middle as possible. The 3rd (and 4th if needed) go at the bottom of the stairs in front of the 1st two. It is important that the raid stays reasonably bunched though so all the adds are moving towards the same place and not moving off in all directions.

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#6 May 20 2011 at 5:35 PM Rating: Good
Hmm, that's a good idea too. I tend to go all over the place trying to DoT them up and stay far enough away from them that my corruption doesn't get too high.
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#7 May 20 2011 at 7:31 PM Rating: Good
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Wonder Gem PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Hmm, that's a good idea too. I tend to go all over the place trying to DoT them up and stay far enough away from them that my corruption doesn't get too high.

Have all of the raid minus the tank and melee and the tank healer together kinda in the center. Or just behind Cho´gal, since he will be tanked in the center of the room, anyway.
Place the shrooms between the pools and you, in the center, after the pools. Then Typhoon, walk back, dot, place shrooms again. Thats a way to do too.
You do need to have them together in the middle all the time, though.

And your corruption only goes high if you get hit by them.

Edited, May 20th 2011 10:31pm by Brisin
#8 May 22 2011 at 1:28 PM Rating: Good
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I uploaded a video of a Cho´gal kill where I play as a Moonkin. Maybe it can help ya out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBwJzYx4DOo
#9 May 22 2011 at 4:46 PM Rating: Good
Thanks Brisin, I'll take a look at it. Our raid leader has been cutting people who aren't consistently getting 70% ranking on WoL though, and my rankings are pretty sporadic. So we're going to give my priest a trial run for a few weeks and see how she does. I do like Boomkin, It's just frustrating when my DoTs are over 80% uptime and still doing the most dmg of all my spells, and I still can't hit 70% on some fights, where others I've hit 80 or 85. SP rotation is a lot simpler without the eclipse mechanic, but it's still challenging enough to keep me entertained.
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#10 May 24 2011 at 2:44 PM Rating: Good
Yeah, that looks pretty similar to what Calculated does in his video. It's what I tried to do when I attempted Cho'gall in a PuG Saturday night after the official raid. The last two weeks we've stopped at Cho'gall, our RL wanted us to just focus on the bosses we already had on farm and try to increase our performances. Now that people have been cut, we're going to start working on him again.
This is the logs from the first wipe with the PuG, there was a second one on there too. Apparently they had been wiping on him for two hours when I came in, so after two more wipes they decided to call it. The other fights listed on that report are from my raid group.
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#11 May 24 2011 at 3:09 PM Rating: Good
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Wonder Gem PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Yeah, that looks pretty similar to what Calculated does in his video. It's what I tried to do when I attempted Cho'gall in a PuG Saturday night after the official raid. The last two weeks we've stopped at Cho'gall, our RL wanted us to just focus on the bosses we already had on farm and try to increase our performances. Now that people have been cut, we're going to start working on him again.
This is the logs from the first wipe with the PuG, there was a second one on there too. Apparently they had been wiping on him for two hours when I came in, so after two more wipes they decided to call it. The other fights listed on that report are from my raid group.

Do notice 2 things. If you get worship during the add phase, your dps will suck. I got it 2 times as the video shows and had 13k dps while the hunter had 19k. That happens because of the cluncky mushrooms. I placed them and when I was about to trigger, got worship. Would have to place again and trigger again, but the hunter had already killed them all. And that actually happened twice. Add all the movement this fight has, and you get sucky dps.

Some things that might help:
- When you are killing the big add, stop casting when you get to Solar Eclipse. It's more important to kill the small adds and you will deal more damage that way.

- When the big add is about to come, cast dots on Chogall too, just like you would do with Valiona/Theralion. Keep casting moonfire/sunfire on big add while the tank is moving him and while you are moving around.

- The second and third big add come really quick between one and the other. It may be interesting to save Solar Eclipse between one and the other while hitting Chogall. Not sure, though. Will try this today and come back to you on this.

- Starfall will be avaiable to cast everytime the small adds come. Save it for that, it helps.

- Have your raid in the middle of the room when the big add goes down. It makes the litlle adds walk in a straight line, wich helps you to place your mushrooms. Dont do like I did in the video and actually move back.

I will give a look on your report later today.

Edited, May 24th 2011 6:17pm by Brisin
#12 May 24 2011 at 3:34 PM Rating: Good
Yeah I've noticed that. I had it happen twice right as I was about to detonate mushrooms too. >.< Starfall I do, and trying to be in solar for the adds I do as well. I do have a bit of an issue with multi-dotting, especially in chaotic fights like Cho'gall. I'm finally getting to a point where my uptime with DoTs on V&T is decent. I always make sure to refresh the DoTs when I move to start attacking the big add though.
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#13 May 24 2011 at 4:10 PM Rating: Good
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Wonder Gem PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Yeah I've noticed that. I had it happen twice right as I was about to detonate mushrooms too. >.< Starfall I do, and trying to be in solar for the adds I do as well. I do have a bit of an issue with multi-dotting, especially in chaotic fights like Cho'gall. I'm finally getting to a point where my uptime with DoTs on V&T is decent. I always make sure to refresh the DoTs when I move to start attacking the big add though.

One thing that really helped me multidotting was an addon called tidyplate. It shows wich add has the dot already and wich one doesnt in the name plate in a way that is really helpfull. I can say it made my multidotting way more efficient and easier than it was before.
I still have to get used to bob around, though.
#14 May 24 2011 at 4:17 PM Rating: Good
Yeah, I use the Threat plates layout for tidy plates. I also have boss bars set up with Shadowed Unit Frames, so that it shows my debuffs on every boss in each fight. That helps make it an easy click from one boss target to another, which can be really helpful in V&T when one dragon is out of sight even when you have the camera zoomed out all the way. This is also quite helpful in the end boss in GB, as the adds he summons show up as boss bars too.
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#15 May 26 2011 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
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Wonder Gem PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Yeah, I use the Threat plates layout for tidy plates. I also have boss bars set up with Shadowed Unit Frames, so that it shows my debuffs on every boss in each fight. That helps make it an easy click from one boss target to another, which can be really helpful in V&T when one dragon is out of sight even when you have the camera zoomed out all the way. This is also quite helpful in the end boss in GB, as the adds he summons show up as boss bars too.

Pigtails, I've been reading stuff about moonkin again since I got my 4T11 and remembered that my rotation should change because of it and that I will probably change my glyph of Wrath to Glyph of Starfire.
Do you have 4T11? Your armory says no, but I just want to make sure, because if it does, it may as well be the whole difference. I tested some different stationary rotations in the dummy and I saw my dps varying from 16k high with 4T11 and no dot rotation change to 18k high changing the dot rotation and 4T11.

Also, you should probably change some glyphs there. Maybe you had hurricane to try and slow things down? It really shouldnt be necessary. You should not cast Hurricane. Ever. I see you have the mushroom talent, should be enough. Glyph of Focus should give you a slight buff to your dps.
Last but not least, glyph of Starsurge isnt as good as glyph of Wrath. You should change it too.
#16 May 26 2011 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
Yeah, I don't have the 4 set yet. I've got three, I was just waiting on getting a shoulder. I tried out the Hurricane thing for a couple of attempts, and yeah it didn't really seem to help much. Typhoon was a lot more useful. I had Starsurge because that's what Calculated's guide recommended. I've been thinking about changing it back to Wrath though, because Starsurge does nothing for me really with the amount of haste I have. If I start out with casting it on my Lunar eclipse, I have to wait for the lunar eclipse to come back around otherwise I'll miss it. I don't have quite enough for it to be available on each eclipse.

Did you get a chance to look at the combat logs yet?
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#17 May 26 2011 at 2:46 PM Rating: Good
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Wonder Gem PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Yeah, I don't have the 4 set yet. I've got three, I was just waiting on getting a shoulder. I tried out the Hurricane thing for a couple of attempts, and yeah it didn't really seem to help much. Typhoon was a lot more useful. I had Starsurge because that's what Calculated's guide recommended. I've been thinking about changing it back to Wrath though, because Starsurge does nothing for me really with the amount of haste I have. If I start out with casting it on my Lunar eclipse, I have to wait for the lunar eclipse to come back around otherwise I'll miss it. I don't have quite enough for it to be available on each eclipse.

Did you get a chance to look at the combat logs yet?

Errr....bad Brisin. Totally forgot about it. PROMISE will do it today.
#18 May 26 2011 at 2:49 PM Rating: Good
lol, no problem. I'm forgetful too. If you could check the other fights besides Cho'gall and see if you can detect anything I'm doing wrong, that'd be awesome too.
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#19 May 26 2011 at 2:54 PM Rating: Good
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Wonder Gem PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
lol, no problem. I'm forgetful too. If you could check the other fights besides Cho'gall and see if you can detect anything I'm doing wrong, that'd be awesome too.

Sure thing, will do.

Edit:
Btw, this is the last one I have on me before T11:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/81fyarggynxdkvwa/details/6/?enc=kills

Edit2:
I have the exact same problem as you do on Cho'gal, as the parse shows. I guess I have to work on it.

Edited, May 26th 2011 5:59pm by Brisin
#20 May 26 2011 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
Your DoT uptime isn't great on Cho'gall either, but you still got a 70% ranking. Of course they only show rankings for kills, so I have nothing to go on for my performance on Cho'gall, but still. You're also at 70% or higher for almost all the fights there. The only one below 70 was still at 68. I think the only fight you have listed there that I outperform you on is Magmaw. =x
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#21 May 26 2011 at 3:45 PM Rating: Good
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Hmm. Quick glance over the logs, comparing yours and mine.
I'm not sure why there is such a difference in the dps. Your gear seems even better than what mine was before I got 4T11 and the heroic weapon from Magmaw.
I mean, even right off the bat my dps is higher. This is odd. I will have to really look into it, spell by spell.

Do you, by any chance, can fraps and upload to youtube or something a demo of you dpsing on a dummy? It would help a lot to analyze.
#22 May 26 2011 at 5:30 PM Rating: Good
How do you do that?

This is what I have tried to mimic though. I've pretty much tried to do whatever Calculated suggests, as he's rated about 50 or so in the world for Boomkins. This is what I try to do for AoE.
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#23 May 26 2011 at 5:53 PM Rating: Good
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Wonder Gem PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
How do you do that?

This is what I have tried to mimic though. I've pretty much tried to do whatever Calculated suggests, as he's rated about 50 or so in the world for Boomkins. This is what I try to do for AoE.

How you do what? Fraps?
Download it, Install it, Run it.
Check the movies tab and change the Video Capture Hotkey for whatever you think its best + change the folder. 30 frames per second should be enough too. Keep in mind that every 5 minutes or so of your frapsed video will have around 4gigs of size.
Log into WoW and go to the dummy/whatever place you want to go. Press the Hotkey a few seconds before you start doing what you want to do. Press the same hotkey to stop it.
After that, you can use something like DVD Shrink to change the size of the video or DivX or whatever.
MPEG4 (Divx, Xvid) format is usually the one used with youtube, 320x240 resolution, MP3 audio, 30 frames per second.
Since I edit it, I use Sony Vegas. I think it has some type of trial, but I'm not sure, I have the full version of it.
Then, upload to youtube.

It sounds like a lot, but it really isnt. The shrinking part do take quite a while, though, depending on your computer. But I dont know if you can upload 4 gigs worth of video to youtube.
#24 May 26 2011 at 6:55 PM Rating: Good
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Im trying to analyze yours and mine spell by spell:
yours:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-lv4mo0ib301exzji/analyze/dd/spell/?source=0&s=13039&e=13571
mine:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/81fyarggynxdkvwa/analyze/dd/spell/?source=6&s=3891&e=4299

It has a table there with the spells. I've checked Moonfire/Sunfire, Wrath, Starfire and Insect Swarm in both mine and yours. Then choose none to Filtering. The parts where Eclipse is up and down are very clear in the graph once you do that, and it begins to get easier to analyze. You can zoom in (with tables) and out to check things more clearer.
Something is odd with your graphic. If you do a zoom in with tables in your log for the first 1 minute or so, you can see that first you casted IS, MF then SF. Just fine and dandy. Then, you went to Solar (you can see Moonfire dropping and Sunfire appearing) but your IS should have more power in it and it does not, so you probably didnt refreshed it during this Eclipse? Odd.
Then you went out of Eclipse Power, casted MF, probably recasted IS, casted some Wrath and then passed 10 seconds (or something like it) without casting Wrath nor Starfire, only dots ticking. Wonder why. Movement? Positioning of big add? Maybe you are waiting to be able to actually cast something in the big add while the tank gets aggro? Killing small adds? Theres no Wild Mushroom there, though. Maybe you got MC'd? Seems like it.

Then you resumed to cast your stuff, got Eclipse, got 1 Starfire out, but, suddenly, 6 seconds with no damage at all, not even dots, then 1 Starsurge and 2 Starfire. I'm assuming you got MC'd and no one released you for a while, then you casted Starsurge and those SF. You only casted IS/MF after that. If I'm correct, 6 seconds while MC'd will probably make your group wipe in the long run.

One thing that I'm noticing but I dont know why it's happening to your graph is that your Starfire casts seems too spaced between one and another. I mean, they shouldnt be as near of each other as Wrath, but not as much spaced as yours.


To sum it up, it seems you are moving too much and that's hurting your dps a lot. It seems, too, that when you get MC'd people are not releasing you quickly or you are waiting too much for the small adds to pop out. And sometimes you are forgetting to recast your dots. Maybe you should try an addon to remind you everytime it drops from the boss or something.
#25 May 26 2011 at 7:40 PM Rating: Good
Yeah, those Cho'gall attempts were pretty hectic. Keep in mind though, those two fights were with a PuG. Any of the other fights from last weekend would be better to look at to see how I do with my raid group. Two in particular I really don't understand my low performance is Omnitron and Maloriak. Omnitron is still a chaotic fight but at least I'm comfortable with it because I've done it so many times. I keep DoTs up on the secondary target if it's Arcanatron or Toxitron since their shields breaking aren't all that dangerous to the raid. And I try to mushroom and Sunfire spam the adds on Toxitron. Anything weird looking on that one?

It does feel like Starfire takes forever to cast. It annoys me quite a bit actually. I'm pretty sure I have good uptime on it though - cast it when I'm supposed to, start casting the next before the current one ends, etc.

Currently uploading a 30 second video of my rotation. Couldn't get that video editor to upload the video, so it's like 1.25 gigs for 30 seconds lol.
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#26 May 26 2011 at 7:54 PM Rating: Good
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#27 May 26 2011 at 9:03 PM Rating: Good
Thanks. Here's the video of my rotation.
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#28 May 26 2011 at 9:19 PM Rating: Good
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Wonder Gem PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Thanks. Here's the video of my rotation.

About that, only thing I would say is not correct is that you should cast IS first. Other than that, seems just fine.
#29 May 26 2011 at 10:02 PM Rating: Good
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Brisin wrote:
Will take a look in the other ones.

Omnotron seems fine. Uptime on dots seems good. Nukes casting seems good. I would use a bit more WM, though, when the bombs were down. Some protips for this fight: When Toxitron has the shield solar cleave him and the other. You will get a debuff from his shield but as long as you sunfire the other really quick, its a dps buff. Other tip is that they dont sustain their shield for too long. You can actually cast your dots before the shield and when the shield is down will be right on time to recast it. Well, maybe not right on, but sorta.

Magmaw, dot uptime is definately good. A little bit fall back here and there, but probably due to positioning or something. Still, good. I dont see WM, though. You guys were ignoring adds or something?

Maloriak, same as Magmaw. Where is WM? If you see my report on Maloriak, WM accounts for a lot of my damage. Its the spell that does the most damage, actually.

Atramedes is good too. There are some small bits of the fight where you are letting both dots fall, though. It's not bad depending on the situation (like a last cast before eclipse) but just make sure you are aware of it.

Im going to stop here, assuming this pattern will go on. I think you should just use more WM when possible and look out for when dots are falling. Try to not move around much when its not required to move (and even when its required to, try to move the less you can).
Cho'gal there is the exception just because I think the whole group was failing.
#30 May 26 2011 at 10:12 PM Rating: Good
Huh, the video was supposed to be longer than that. Oh well... I do cast IS first most of the time. Sometimes I goof it up, but 90% of the time or so IS goes up first.

For Magmaw, we just have the frost DK kite the adds around and all the other DPS ignore them. I do cast Starfall during Lunar Eclipse, but other than that I'm not doing any damage to the adds.

For Maloriak, I do use WM, but I'm not very good at placing them while I'm running to the adds. So it tends to go off a little late most likely. And I usually only do it once and then just spam Sunfire. By the time the CD is back up they're usually all dead or close to it.

Thanks for the tips though. If I end up staying with my druid for my raid group I'll work on the things you suggested.
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#31 May 27 2011 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
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Wonder Gem PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Huh, the video was supposed to be longer than that. Oh well... I do cast IS first most of the time. Sometimes I goof it up, but 90% of the time or so IS goes up first.

For Magmaw, we just have the frost DK kite the adds around and all the other DPS ignore them. I do cast Starfall during Lunar Eclipse, but other than that I'm not doing any damage to the adds.

For Maloriak, I do use WM, but I'm not very good at placing them while I'm running to the adds. So it tends to go off a little late most likely. And I usually only do it once and then just spam Sunfire. By the time the CD is back up they're usually all dead or close to it.

Thanks for the tips though. If I end up staying with my druid for my raid group I'll work on the things you suggested.

Sure, no problem. Im glad I could be of any help.
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