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best horde race?Follow

#1 May 09 2011 at 1:11 PM Rating: Sub-Default
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so,i got bored.and figured id start up a mage cuz i know frost has always looked like fun for pvp and i know pve wise mages are looking better then druids(plus i know arcane is like a 3 button faceroll rotation.and feral cat really isnt that faceroll.plus i seem to kinda get tunnel vision playing a feral cat anyway)

im just wondering because i made a undead mage because ive always liked the undead race but i figured pve wise before i get to serious into lvling it if i like it what would be the best horde race to roll.or does it even matter,because if not then ill just stay undead

oh and one thing ive noticed pvping on my druid,maybe this is just because of the fact theres more ranged and casters in bgs then melee or maybe i just stealth to much but i seem to have ranged dps and casters always get killing blows and stuff in before i reach the target cuz im usually prowling around trying to find people to kill.but i think that might of been half the reason why i quit my rogue alt i had to(was before the whole buff to stealth and stuff though)



Edited, May 9th 2011 3:12pm by CrunkJuice7

Edited, May 9th 2011 3:45pm by CrunkJuice7
#2 May 09 2011 at 8:12 PM Rating: Decent
As far as I know, it doesn't matter. The Blood Elves have a racial ability that gives them some mana back from enemies. Honestly, I think it's just what race you prefer.
#3 May 09 2011 at 8:37 PM Rating: Good
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PvE-- Goblin by far. Of course, "by far" means less than 1% of a difference. But it's easily the strongest Horde race. You get 1% Haste, and either an extra blink if necessary (to add a second or so of combat time every 2 mins, or a small nuke (that's off the GCD iirc).

PvP-- Undead are best, imo. But all of them bring something to the table. And if you want to focus more on arenas and rated bgs, the best races might change a little.

Overall, if I was choosing PURELY on racials, and intended to PVP and PVE equal amounts, I'd go Goblin. They aren't nearly as strong in PVP as Undead, but they're super nice in PVE. And they have some of the best non-combat racials in the game.

But if you mostly want to PVP, you can't go wrong with Undead.

Of course, Human are easily still the strongest race in the game if you intend to PVP. An extra trinket is a massive buff.
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#4 May 09 2011 at 10:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory wrote:

Of course, Human are easily still the strongest race in the game if you intend to PVP. An extra trinket is a massive buff.


Okay, so like I get this, but I don't get this.

So I play a Human Warlock, you can see the character in my sig at the bottom. He has the racial so I don't have to equip a trinket and such. Now don't get me wrong, I see what you're getting at, but I'm not seeing the huge advantage at this point.

So there's 3 trinkets I can get with honor: the two the human has on and the PvP one. They all have 301 resilience, so that's a wash. I'd probably be using the +health one anyway, so the difference is the '+1520 spellpower for 20 second' on-use.

Now compare this to an Orc (simply because it's the most straight-forward to compare to), which would be using the PvP trinket, but would have Blood Fury instead. That's +585 spellpower for 15 seconds. Advantage is human, yes but the difference is something like 165 spellpower when averaged over the 2min CD. If you're around 5k spellpower that's a fairly small difference (like 3%-ish). Now if you consider an Orc gets a 15% reduction in stun duration and +5% to pet damage, while the human gets +3% spirit and extra rep (which aren't really as useful in PvP) the difference is kind of less so.

Now I could see if we were at a point where resilience wasn't as useful, and people were going into arena in PvE gear and burning others down, then you could argue not having the PvP trinket was an advantage; as you wouldn't need to pack around that resilience on the PvP trinket. Also I can see the advantage at low levels, as your 2 minute trinket is better than the 5 minute heirloom one. That's pretty nice. But at end-game, I dunno.

So ya, like I see it and I don't see it.
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#5 May 10 2011 at 2:00 AM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
Now I could see if we were at a point where resilience wasn't as useful, and people were going into arena in PvE gear and burning others down, then you could argue not having the PvP trinket was an advantage; as you wouldn't need to pack around that resilience on the PvP trinket. Also I can see the advantage at low levels, as your 2 minute trinket is better than the 5 minute heirloom one. That's pretty nice. But at end-game, I dunno.

So ya, like I see it and I don't see it.
I suspect the statement was made with the entire expansion in mind. Sure, early seasons the resilience is more useful, but as the expansion wears on and you can get more of that from the non-trinket gear, the option to choose non-resilience stuff will likely become a powerful buff to the race.

Seemed to be how it was in WotLK.

Then again, I could be wrong since most of my knowledge just comes from reading rather than personal experience.
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#6 May 10 2011 at 9:16 AM Rating: Good
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It should be noted that Humans aren't so superior now as they were in WotLK, because the relative power of trinkets has dropped. But they are still powerful.

Plus, it's a big mistake imo to compare the relative power of PVP trinkets when averaged. In PVE it makes a lot of sense for most classes, as most don't even cycle through phases, so the trinket is always relatively equal in value (and you should plan to use it during Heroism/Bloodlust anyways). And for those that do use phases, they are (at least generally, if not always) usually short enough that a trinket will see approximately equal uses throughout each phase, so it should even out in effectiveness.

But that's not really the case in PVP. You can use your trinkets on CD, but it's wiser to save them. That's because you don't have high uptime in PVP, so nearly every class actually does try and set up a burn period if possible (except maybe Afflic locks).

Mages are a perfect example of this. An Arcane Mage that uses a gem to get back to full, pops Arcane Power (followed by PoM), uses a trinket and spams AB is going to dish out some serious damage to a target (that's hopefully caught in your snare).

That means the effectiveness of a trinket when used on a PVP target can vary immensely, and it doesn't average out like in PVP, since you should be saving the trinkets for those moments.

And they aren't always to do with burn phases. We are talking about an environment where the target heals or gets healed. That extra 1.5k SP can definitely be the difference between them dying and forbearance wearing so they can receive Lay on Hands.

But that's only one part of it. As pold pointed out, trinkets get better with time. So the racial gets better with each expac. Bloodlust is only going to get better if it is buffed. That's a significant change. And Mages don't really get enough damage from pets for Orcs to make any real difference. And we can blink out of stuns.

Plus, as Pold said, resil's value might not always trump the dps gain from PVE trinkets. Consider the Eye of Awareness. It's less resil, yes. But the chance for your heals to also give a 3k heal to a nearby, low-health member could be pretty amazing in the proper situations (I know no specifics about the actual trinket--just an example).
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#7 May 10 2011 at 9:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory wrote:
Plus, it's a big mistake imo to compare the relative power of PVP trinkets when averaged.


Naw, that's a good point, and one that occurred to me late last night after I had posted.

You've also given me another reason to eagerly await the next big patch I think. Smiley: grin
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#8 May 11 2011 at 10:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Ohh cmon we all know BELFs are the cutest .....!!

Vyn
#9 May 11 2011 at 3:11 PM Rating: Default
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"PvP-- Undead are best, imo. But all of them bring something to the table. And if you want to focus more on arenas and rated bgs, the best races might change a little. "

all i wanna do is just regular bgs,and maybe whenever i get bored runnin thru stormwind city and kill people

but i thought i heard that ever since will of the forsaken got nerfed that undead wernt that good for a pvp race anymore.eather way i made a goblin but im not even lvl 10 so i guess if undead really is the best horde pvp race then i could always just re roll



#10 May 11 2011 at 5:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Trolls get a nifty little haste buff too, and they aren't physically impossible not-corpses, or Israeli Midgets. They also aren't Paris Hilton. I'm surprised I ever actually went Horde come to think of it, but now that I'm with Trolls and Tauren, I'm ok with it ^_^
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#11 May 12 2011 at 1:26 PM Rating: Good
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If you're just doing regular BGs, it really doesn't matter. All of them are fine. Even Arcane Torrent gets better if you are doing BGs over arena.

But might as well go race by race:

Orc-- Stun resistance is nice, but Mages have Blink and IB to break stuns, so it's not the best. Small SP buff could be worse. Command may or may not apply to the elemental.

Troll-- Health regen won't be noticeable. Berserking is decent. The snare reduction is the best part, imo.

Undead-- Will of the Forsaken is an extra fear break. It does have an internal 30 sec CD on last used fear break, but it still leads to more total breaks per fight. Cannibalize isn't as good in BGs, since people generally release right away. Shadow Resist is nice when fighting the 3 (popular) classes that use shadow-based abilities in PVP.

Blood Elf-- Silence/mana regen could be worse, I guess, but I don't know why you'd be in melee range of someone casting anyway. Arcane resist is nice against other Mages, but that's about it.

Goblin-- 1% haste won't make or break you. Rocket Barrage is a little extra free damage, but nothing amazing. The extra blink is the best part, but kinda irrelvant.

So, best overall for PVP has to be Undead. If you are PVPing and PVEing, it has to be Troll or Goblin(!).
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#12 May 13 2011 at 5:50 AM Rating: Good
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Ohh cmon we all know BELFs are the cutest .....!!

Vyn


No they aren't, they're the prettiest. There is a difference. Goblin females are the cutest. :-p
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#13 May 13 2011 at 1:17 PM Rating: Decent
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I saw a belf with HUGE nasty pigtails last night. I was tempted to try vote kicking them because it disgusted me so much.
I have nothing against people with pigtails, but these were NASTY.
In all, I'm not fond of Belves or Goblins. Belves because they remind me of New Yorkers, and Goblins because (ok, they remind the RACIST in me of New Yorkers, but that isn't it) they hang out with those guys with the big round noses. Those guys give me the heebeejeebees. I think they're called Hobgoblins or something.
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#14 May 13 2011 at 4:11 PM Rating: Good
Yeah, I think if I actually had to hang out with a blood elf in real life I might shoot myself in the face. I think their jokes and flirts are hilarious, but it just shows how vain and judgmental they are, and I can't stand people like that.

The goblins though, I think I would enjoy hanging out with them. =x
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#15 May 13 2011 at 4:18 PM Rating: Decent
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They're too money based for my likes. They DO like explosions, so I'd certainly go to a PARTY with one, but I wouldn't hang out with one by any means. I'm too poor and they'd consider me inferior :P
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#16 May 14 2011 at 7:14 AM Rating: Good
Heh, yeah I'd have that issue too.
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#17 May 14 2011 at 9:58 PM Rating: Good
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Goblins and me wouldn't get along--I'm too socialist for them, lol.

Races I think would get along with:
-NEs
-Gnomes (because Mekatorque is more than awesome enough to make up for the annoying ones)
-Dwarves
-Tauren
-Draenei

Races I definitely wouldn't:
-Orcs
-Trolls
-Forsaken
-Goblins

Races I may or may not:
-Blood Elves
-Humans
-Worgen
(Notice these are the three most culturally varied of them all, lol)
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#18 May 15 2011 at 4:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Just outta curiosity, why not trolls?
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#19 May 15 2011 at 8:46 AM Rating: Good
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The Darkspear Trolls, while vastly better than their non-Horde counterparts, are still a very violent race. Now, the violence has been tamed a LOT under Thrall's leadership, but they are still... well, terrifying. Voodoo and cannibalism haven't completely disappeared from the culture, only been heavily surpressed.

Even the Shaman are vastly more animalistic than their Tauren (/Dwarf, Draenei) counterparts.

To be fair, there may be SOME Trolls I could get along with. Vol'Jin's mah boy, for instance. But most Trolls aren't as dedicated to peace as he is.

Tauren still have a war culture, to be fair. But it's different. They value honor and the will to defend what's worth defending. Trolls value the actual kills a warrior produces, and sees him more as an implement to bring about those deaths.

This is the same reason why Humans, BEs and Worgen are on my "maybe" list. Some of them are just as violent as Trolls are. But many of them are also legitimately seeking peaceful solutions. The population of them I'd like would be far less than half, I'd wager, but still sizable enough that they don't belong in the "no" list. :P And a good portion of the population I could get along with would probably be their more academic mages, lol.
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#20 May 15 2011 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
Yeah, as much as I'm a Hordie through and through, my favorite race by far is the Night Elves. I love their architecture, their culture, a lot of their ideals (now that the highbourne are gone of course lol), and I think the love story between Malfurion and Tyrande is really romantic in a tragic sort of way. Plus War of the Ancients was freaking amazing.
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#21 May 15 2011 at 7:48 PM Rating: Good
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Both elven races have great architecture, imo.

And I do like NEs a lot--I could totally see myself as a research-focused druid or a priestess focusing on maintaining the historical tradition. :P

Honestly, part of the reason why I was able to quit cata so easily was that I just found the lore to have... died, in a way. Don't get me wrong, there's a TON of it in Cata--I adored Hyjal and Vashj'ir. But with them trying so hard to introduce conflict, I just felt disconnected from everything. It just doesn't make sense to me anymore.

I mean, pretty much every quest throughout the new zones felt like "Attack X, because Varian/Garrosh want war." And that's stupid. They didn't even bother to maintain race uniqueness anymore, it felt like. Sure, if you are in a NE area, you might use seeds instead of bombs on a quest, and you ride hippogryphs instead of gryphons. But where are the NE quests trying to get me to save nature? Where are the Dwarf quests all about archaeology?

Having more war is nice, but not when it's in every zone. And not at the expense of all quests that gave each race an identity. I don't want to see them only focusing on war. I want to play an MMO and in an MMO world. I feel like Cata lost that.

And things they could (and should) have played up barely get mentioned. Take NE Mages for example. For 7 thousand years, they've been outlaws. Now they're just welcomed back without a SINGLE mention from anyone? SERIOUSLY? What about Dwarf Warlocks? No one bats an eye that the Dark Iron are teaching their arts to Ironforge Dwarves?

Plus, the characters seem... lifeless now. Garrosh has daddy issues and wants war. Sylvanas is an evil b*tch who wants to rule. Varian has daddy issues and wants war. Etc.

Honestly, I probably won't be coming back to WoW now. The lore was always the reason I played, and I'm just not interested anymore. :(
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