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Are Druid tanks = Wet cardboardFollow

#1 Apr 12 2011 at 5:58 AM Rating: Default
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Ok here is my first post been a long time reader of the topics here and find the community really helpful.


Ok so here goes I have recently geared a Druid tank to item level 350 and out of all my other tanks (that are similar geared) he seems to be the most squishy.

They all have similar armor and Hp (well the Druids is slightly higher but nothing to rave about) I swear I even saw a crit hit in the combat log yesterday when i was in SFK! I know an armory link would be helpful but I'm on my IPhone so you will have to wait for that if you will.

Are the mechanics wrong and not working? Is the class just really underpowered at the moment? Is it true that Druids wear wet cardboard as armor?

Any advice would be helpful that includes roll tree or boomkin :-)

Cheers Nal
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#2 Apr 12 2011 at 6:20 AM Rating: Good
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If your druid got crit you spec'd wrong.

Druids are fine if played well. Trash is a bit rockier than bosses right now but still.
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#3 Apr 12 2011 at 6:25 AM Rating: Good
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I just checked my threat set, I need to upgrade my meta since I can activate with said threat set.

With the SD change and others heroics will be a complete joke for a bear that can deal with them now.
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#4 Apr 12 2011 at 6:33 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, you should not be getting crit if you are specced right at lvl 85. Not sure why you would be squishy either...are you using cooldowns at all? I'm not expert enough at tanking to know if cds are mandatory yet, but I have to use them in pugs. Of course I've only tanked two regulars so far so it might be a gear issue for me.
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#5 Apr 12 2011 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
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I still don't get why they're reducing Swipe's cooldown to 3 seconds instead of just removing it and making Thrash spammable. I guess they worked hard on the names and want to keep them in the game.

Whatever, I'd sacrifice Swipe/Thrash if I got Nom Nom Nom back.
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#6 Apr 12 2011 at 8:31 AM Rating: Decent
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I do use barksin quite often nearly every trash pull but even with a geared and from what I can tell a competent healer I seem to take a lot of punishment. With regards to holding aggro I have witnessed no problems there apart from the usual "Warrior attack my target please" shouts that are oh so very frequent in HC's yeah that's right Warriors I went there

For bosses I tend to use Survival Instincts when I feel the damage is getting a bit too heavy but compared to my Death Knight especially the Druid seems to take more damage.

I have yet to find a practical use for Frenzied Regeneration as the HC's I'm doing don't seem to call for it

Note to self stop trying to discuss WoW whilst at work I end up misunderstanding and weighting stupid stuff



Edited, Apr 12th 2011 10:34am by Nalsir
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#7 Apr 12 2011 at 8:40 AM Rating: Good
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First of all, Death Knight self-healing is lulsies. Especially now that Blood Shield stacks. Second, what's your armor and dodge values like? I've got 41k armor and ~30% dodge self-buffed, if I remember correctly, covered in mostly heroic blues.

Also, you're going to take a lot of pain on trash because of how our shield thing works (getting fixed next patch), and because you can't pop 20k self-heals every 20 seconds like Paladins, or generate a constant flow of incoming health like the Death Knight. As for getting crit, to my knowledge, nothing in Shadowfang Keep uses a "100% crit on next hit" buff/debuff, so if you're getting crit then it's because you don't have 3/3 Thick Hide.

Extensive testing was done a while back by some of the math geeks over on the O-board and it showed that while Druids lack a lot of utility compared to other classes (we basically have none), the mitigation is actually some of the best, at least until Paladins and Warriors start getting block-capped. And that was before the armor "fix" which granted most Druids a huge armor bonus.

I feel very squishy when I tank on my Druid compared to my Paladin, but every healer I've run with says I'm taking very little damage, so I'm guessing it's more of an illusion brought out by the lack of utility and self-healing.

Ps. I've run heroics where I took less damage on a boss than the melee DPS. It was fun.
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#8 Apr 13 2011 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
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As promised here is my armory link i hope i have done it correctly i wouldnt be surprised if its though.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/nagrand/drwydd/advanced

checking the combat log again i wasnt crit I just took a lot of damage in quick succession so it wasnt so much me that was failing or the class that was failling it was the healer.(Oh and I have always taken Thick Hide 3/3)

I have had a think over the past couple of days (beers) and I have decided to look at the Druid tank as a bare bones no nonsense tank. We dont have as many "Oh Dear" buttons so i guess thats why i always feel a bit more fragile because apart from our 3 main CD's there isnt much else we can do (lets face it our mastery sucks right now)

The SD changes will make me feel robust like the other tanks this thread was never meant as "lulz lets get over powered" but the gear reliance and just all round learning curve i guess is holding me back a bit
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#9 Apr 13 2011 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
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Try and replace the Str ring with an Agi one. Don't go down in iLvl though just know that you should have an Agi ring.

Weapon should have 120 Agi on it.

Use Agi/Dodge gems for yellow sockets that you wish to activate, use straight Agi gems in red sockets, Mastery/Stam is a fine alternative to Agi/Stam for blue. The straight stam gems need to be changed to one of the ones listed.

Back out of some expertise reforging. You only need ~21 or so for heroics. I raid with around 3 Exp and very little hit as well. I do have a threat set for heroics, I recommend having one. You don't have to cap them even for threat just don't let them get as low as you would on raid gear.

Also Haste->Hit->Exp->Crit->Mastery is the order of where to take from. Once you are content with your threat, more important for heroics, start reforging to Dodge.

Threat stats don't matter in a raid setting, they are nearly worthless there. Heroics is a different ball game. Even on raid trash with low hit/exp I don't have threat issues, mobs hit hard enough for Vengeance to stack fast.
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#10 Apr 15 2011 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
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This has been a great help

Just by changing a couple of my gems I have noticed a definite improvement.
There again I have re done my spec to include some magic damage mitigation which I think was causing a squishiness feeling previously.
The only thing I'm thinking of is dropping a stam trinket and trying to get the HC Tia's Grace which adds some more mastery and the stacking bonus just seems awesome I did use it previously but dropped it for in favour of more HP

Am I talking crazy here?

Nal out
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#11 Apr 15 2011 at 5:04 PM Rating: Good
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Stamina is never bad, according to EJ, but at a certain point you want to stack avoidance instead, or at least mix it in.

I'm still stuck in the WOTLK mindset that stamina > everything, which is why I'm running around with a green trinket. Smiley: facepalm
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#12 Apr 15 2011 at 5:59 PM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
Stamina is never bad, according to EJ, but at a certain point you want to stack avoidance instead, or at least mix it in.

I'm still stuck in the WOTLK mindset that stamina > everything, which is why I'm running around with a green trinket. Smiley: facepalm


I use Fluid Death and the JC trinket. I'd use Tia's Grace over the JC one if I had one.
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#13 Apr 28 2011 at 12:26 AM Rating: Good
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4.1 has turned bears into killing machines that don't show remorse or die.
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#14 Apr 28 2011 at 2:26 AM Rating: Good
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Savage Defense doesn't seem to stack, which sucks. It doesn't even seem to refresh itself.
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#15 Apr 28 2011 at 3:47 AM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
Savage Defense doesn't seem to stack, which sucks. It doesn't even seem to refresh itself.


Seems to work for me.
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#16 Apr 28 2011 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good
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I tested it out yesterday by reloading my tanking gear and whacking some critters. On the first crit my SD buff said 5k, but on the second crit nothing happened and the first 5k buff ran out.

I also noticed that the buff only applies if you're not at full health. Kinda annoying.
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#17 Apr 30 2011 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Ive been busy running the new HC's and i have to say WOW! Blizzard have actually turned us from the weakest tank out of the 4 into a strong contender for raid tanks.

The new mechanic seems to work perfectly for me however i do tend to get the odd healer who makes me feel like im pre 4.1.

One thing that has shocked me is how I dont seem to be rage starved as much when AoE'ing thanks ro changing the CD on Swipe Im not to sure how much affect its actually had but Ive seemed to have noticed that I am far more rage efficeient.

£3.00 in the post finally pat yourselves on the back Blizzard and grab yourself a pint

Cheers

Nal Out
#18 May 03 2011 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
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Nalsir wrote:
Ive been busy running the new HC's and i have to say WOW! Blizzard have actually turned us from the weakest tank out of the 4 into a strong contender for raid tanks.

To be really fair, we were probably the strongest raid tank out there. At least, in bosses fights.
We just got back to be able to AoE tank as much as the other tanks.
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