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Any Shadow Priests here still?Follow

#1 Mar 11 2011 at 4:20 PM Rating: Decent
Decided to try out shadow on my priest last night as I'm starting to get kind of bored with Disc leveling, and I checked here first and the shadow sticky from 3.3 was down. I found it, just so I could get a reminder of rotation, but I am curious as to whether there's any shadow priests still here since most of the topics have been about disc and holy. :-p
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#2 Mar 11 2011 at 5:03 PM Rating: Good
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Shadow priest? What's that?
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#3 Mar 11 2011 at 5:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Fish still plays Shadow, I believe.
#4 Mar 11 2011 at 5:59 PM Rating: Good
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Wait, Shadow isn't the way to level anymore?

I've got a very low level priest I'm going to be levelling soon, what is the way to level it?
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#5 Mar 11 2011 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Main is still shadow, but been spending a lot of time on unholy DK alt...
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#6 Mar 11 2011 at 9:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:

I've got a very low level priest I'm going to be levelling soon, what is the way to level it?


Really they've made it so you can level in any spec you want. My personal opinion is that shadow still has a clear edge on speed and efficiency, especially if you are mainly soloing/questing. But the healing trees are also viable ways to level now, and some people like them a lot; also if you like doing dungeons while leveling it's easier to get groups if you're a healer.

Edit: I'm also a fan of leveling in whatever specs you're considering being at endgame, since it's pretty easy to level any old way now without a penalty for choosing your favorite tree, and dual spec is so cheap (priests are nice because you can swap specs while leveling without carrying around a bunch of extra equipment).

Edited, Mar 11th 2011 10:42pm by teacake
#7 Mar 12 2011 at 1:18 AM Rating: Good
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teacake wrote:
Fish still plays Shadow, I believe.


That Fish does. Ask a question, and thou shall receive an answer.
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#8 Mar 12 2011 at 1:23 AM Rating: Good
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IDrownFish wrote:
teacake wrote:
Fish still plays Shadow, I believe.


That Fish does. Ask a question, and thou shall receive an answer.


Why is bacon awesome?
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#9 Mar 12 2011 at 2:16 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm raising a SP Tauren for shoots and giggles - its only 30 but I'm lovin' it!

I still see plenty of SPs in the BGs and they don't seem to have lost any of the effectiveness I remember them having back in Wrath, if anything, the bastards seem to be even deadlier then before.

That said though, my girl's got an 85 troll SP (url=http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/kargath/sherina/simple]Sherina[/url]) and even though she's pulling a 346 item level she's been suffering from both DPS output and mana issues - only pulling around 5k or so and goes OOM at the drop of a hat.

Any suggestions on rotations, gems, reforge, chants, etc?
#10 Mar 12 2011 at 2:22 AM Rating: Good
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#11 Mar 12 2011 at 3:01 AM Rating: Decent
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My priest is shadow still leveling though, at 75 right now, i like shadow but have holy as second spec.
#12 Mar 12 2011 at 3:57 PM Rating: Decent
I have sporadic issues with that myself rusttle, and I'm only 62 lol. One thing I've noticed is that Devouring Plague is a huge waste of mana while killing trash. What I've found to be a good balance is to do VT, SW:P and then depending on how much life the mob has left, either Mind Flay or Mind Blast and then trying to end with SW:D as much as possible. That might or might not work at 85 of course, that's just what I've noticed. Also, generally speaking any DoT class wants to spread their DoTs over as many mobs as possible when killing trash.

I don't really have any questions exactly. At least not currently. I think I've got a handle on Shadow for questing and dungeons while leveling. Although I am curious as to what talents you'd recommend for leveling Fish. :-)

As far as which tree to level as, I find Disc to be a lot of fun at lower levels. It's especially helpful before level 30 when you get dual spec, because you can heal dungeons without switching specs, and you still do good damage. In fact I read an article a while back that said that up until 35 at least (he hadn't leveled past then at that point), Disc is actually faster than Shadow due to lack of mana issues and survivability.
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#13 Mar 12 2011 at 7:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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rusttle wrote:
I'm raising a SP Tauren for shoots and giggles - its only 30 but I'm lovin' it!

I still see plenty of SPs in the BGs and they don't seem to have lost any of the effectiveness I remember them having back in Wrath, if anything, the bastards seem to be even deadlier then before.

That said though, my girl's got an 85 troll SP (url=http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/kargath/sherina/simple]Sherina[/url]) and even though she's pulling a 346 item level she's been suffering from both DPS output and mana issues - only pulling around 5k or so and goes OOM at the drop of a hat.

Any suggestions on rotations, gems, reforge, chants, etc?


For gear, the first thing I notice is the helm reforge. Really minor, but the hit -> spirit reforge isn't necessary. I assume that's for the Holy off spec, so yeah, that's perfectly ok.

There's two major things I'm seeing.

First and most importantly, below Intellect, Haste is our #1 stat. Everything needs to have haste on it. Everything. It would be preferable if haste was on the item to begin with, but it needs to be there. I see a lot of gear with crit on it. Crit isn't bad, it's about equal to Mastery. But I really recommend reforging all that to Haste.

So, for reforging:

If it has haste, leave it alone.
If it doesn't, reforge Mastery or Crit to Haste.
If you have to choose between Mastery and Crit to reforge, choose Mastery.

Unless you're PvPing, +sta gems are fairly useless. Every gem needs to have +Int on it. Use Purified (Spirit/Int) for blue slots, and Reckless (Haste/Int) for yellow.

She's also about 1% above hit cap, so it's possible to reforge away some Hit to Haste. This takes priority over reforging away other stats. Being hit capped isn't even as important now a days, so you can dip below as far as you feel comfortable. I'm about 4% below hit cap, personally.
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#14 Mar 12 2011 at 7:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Also, for spells in PvE, here's a priority list:

Keep Dots Up > Mind Blast with 1+ orbs > Mind Flay

Keep Shadowfiend on cooldown, Mind Flay will reduce the cooldown considerably.

Archangel needs to be on cooldown, too. If you're still having mana problems, use Shadow Word: Death on cooldown, as well. Should solve most problems. I remember having mana problems at her gear level too, though, so just stick with it. It'll get easier.

When the mob drops below 25%, using Shadow Word: Death on cooldown takes priority over the others, too. Because of Shadow Form, Vampiric Embrace, and Pain and Suffering, her health really won't drop much, even on crits.

For AoE situations, it depends. Most of the time in Heroics, there won't be enough time to multi dot things before things start dieing. That shouldn't be a problem in raids, but in Heroics I reccomend just single targeting and Mind Spike + Mind Blasting them down. Don't bother with Mind Sear until 4.1 hits, the damage is still too low, and they'll be buffing it.

For a quick dieing mob, don't bother dotting. Just Mind Spike with Blast on cooldown. That's what the Spike spell was put in for.

In a Heroic, especially, try MCing things. I especially love going after casters, they often have a Chain Lightning spell which will be hella fun.

That should help her DPS jump conisderably. A lot to digest, I know, but once you get it down it's fairly easy.

Edited, Mar 13th 2011 12:55pm by IDrownFish
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#15 Mar 13 2011 at 3:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
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Why is bacon awesome?
Because awesome bacon is.


But if I'm not in the Dagobah system why is Bacon awesome?

Edited, Mar 12th 2011 11:11pm by Horsemouth
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#16 Mar 13 2011 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
But if I'm not in the Dagobah system why is Bacon awesome?


Then bacon is your father.









Wait, what?
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#17 Mar 13 2011 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
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Horsemouth wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Horsemouth wrote:
Why is bacon awesome?
Because awesome bacon is.


But if I'm not in the Dagobah system why is Bacon awesome?


Dagoba Chocolate.
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#18 Mar 13 2011 at 6:17 PM Rating: Decent
IDrownFish wrote:
Also, for spells in PvE, here's a priority list:

Keep Dots Up > Mind Blast with 1+ orbs > Mind Flay

Keep Shadowfiend on cooldown, Mind Flay will reduce the cooldown considerably.

Archangel needs to be on cooldown, too. If you're still having mana problems, use Shadow Word: Death on cooldown, as well. Should solve most problems. I remember having mana problems at her gear level too, though, so just stick with it. It'll get easier.

When the mob drops below 25%, using Shadow Word: Death on cooldown takes priority over the others, too. Because of Shadow Form, Vampiric Embrace, and Pain and Suffering, her health really won't drop much, even on crits.

For AoE situations, it depends. Most of the time in Heroics, there won't be enough time to multi dot things before things start dieing. That shouldn't be a problem in raids, but in Heroics I reccomend just single targeting and Mind Spike + Mind Blasting them down. Don't bother with Mind Sear until 4.1 hits, the damage is still too low, and they'll be buffing it.

For a quick dieing mob, don't bother dotting. Just Mind Spike with Blast on cooldown. That's what the Spike spell was put in for.

In a Heroic, especially, try MCing things. I especially love going after casters, they often have a Chain Lightning spell which will be hella fun.

That should help her DPS jump conisderably. A lot to digest, I know, but once you get it down it's fairly easy.

Edited, Mar 13th 2011 12:55pm by IDrownFish


Awesome post Fish. That'll be very useful once I hit 85 on my priest (which will hopefully be within the month).

Rusttle, her gem choice just in general is pretty atrocious, no offense intended. Considering haste is the best secondary stat as Fish said above, gemming and gearing is pretty similar to Boomkins, aside from the cloth vs. leather and wand vs. relic stuff.

She needs to ignore socket bonuses unless the bonus is 20 intellect or higher, and only gem +40 int. If the socket bonus is good and not red, blue should be int and spirit and yellow should be int and haste. Also, while her meta gem looks good for healing (although I don't know the bis healing meta), for dps she's going to want the Burning Shadowspirit Diamond. Also, Heartsong is a good healing enchant, but for dps she needs Hurricane on her weapon. It can be challenging to try and gear up for two different specs, so what I'd recommend is picking one to gear up first, and once that one is decked out in all the heroic gear it needs, then move on to the other spec. Mixing healing and dps gear/enchants together is going to make her performance in both mediocre.
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#19 Mar 16 2011 at 6:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

But if I'm not in the Dagobah system why is Bacon awesome?


It's still awesome in Dagobah - nothing tastier then grilled swamp whale meat wrapped in bacon!
#20 Mar 17 2011 at 10:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Control Rusttle you must learn Control!
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#21 Apr 05 2011 at 6:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Idrownfish when you said to dot everything first was there any special order to doting. I've read other places to use sw:p first and other get VT and DP on them first. This is of course in dungeons and not questing.
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#22 Apr 06 2011 at 1:58 PM Rating: Good
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bigmantooL wrote:
Idrownfish when you said to dot everything first was there any special order to doting. I've read other places to use sw:p first and other get VT and DP on them first. This is of course in dungeons and not questing.


It doesn't make too much of a difference unless you're moving around a lot (in which case you can only pretty much use instants), but I can see the benefit of SW:P first. More ticks of that means more Orb generation.

I may have forgotten to mention it above, too, but make sure you keep up Empowered Shadows (the buff generated from consuming orbs) and Evangelism while multi-dotting. It'll help considerably.

SW:D as needed for mana.
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#23 Apr 07 2011 at 11:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Is there a baseline dps that I should be able to obtain when I first start doing dungeons at 85. Right now 84 and it seems that I'm in the 6k-7k range for most instances. I will post my armory link and I already know I will have some reforging and enchants and glyphs to buy. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/detheroc/boogatti/simple

Edited, Apr 7th 2011 12:04pm by bigmantooL
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#24 Apr 13 2011 at 5:29 AM Rating: Good
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Imo normal level 85 dungeons should be fine with 6k-7k.
Try to get the rep rewards for exalted reputations and maybe there are quest rewards in Uldum that would be upgrades for some of your green stuff (too lazy to look it up myself).
That and some upgrades from said normal dungeons and you can start doing heroics.
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#25 Apr 24 2011 at 1:22 AM Rating: Decent
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#26 Apr 28 2011 at 6:22 AM Rating: Decent
Hey Fish, what do you recommend doing with Mind Spike? From the few shadow priest guides I've been able to find online, it hasn't been mentioned for rotations. Considering it buffs the crit chance of MB, I'd think it would be a good spell to cast periodically. I'm still leveling, but I do try and do a random dungeon for the JP so it takes less time for me to gear up when I hit 85. On bosses I've been getting my DoT's up, then casting MB and two or three MF, then doing Mind Spike three times and starting over. Also using shadowfiend on CD. I'm doing okay damage so far, anywhere from 5 to 7k at 83. I just don't want to develop any bad habits. =x
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#27 Apr 28 2011 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
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Mind Spike is... a weird spell. I would fully recommend using it after you get your DoTs up, if only it didn't remove the DoTs.

Sometimes, it seems like there's a "sweet spot" moment where all your dots are running out anyways, and you have two options. You can either let them expire and use a Mind Spike or two before refreshing DoTs to make the next MB a guaranteed crit, or you can refresh the DoTs and continue as usual with Mind Flay/Mind Blast.

They've done work on this subject, and it turns out that refreshing the DoTs and continuing as normal will actually do more damage every time.

I know it seems tempting to use MS, but I really caution against it. The only time I've really found that Mind Spike is preferable is when the mob is going to die before your DoTs can go their full duration. You have to think ahead: if you will have to refresh the DoTs before the creature dies, use DoTs. If it will die before the DoTs do, use Mind Spike. Short-lived trash is an excellent example of when to use it. Also, I used it almost exclusively using it while solo leveling, just because I found it to be more mana efficient.

My memory is vague about what I was doing at those levels, but to me it sounds like you're doing just fine. You didn't mention it, but I'm sure you're doing it, but use SW:D while the mob is under 25%. I found that Masochism + the Glyph of Spirit Tap + the Glyph of Shadow Word: Death = nearly infinite mana. The glyph of SW:D is also a huge dps boost. Think of it as our Execute.
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#28 Apr 28 2011 at 7:30 PM Rating: Good
I don't know what execute is, but yes I've been using SW:D. :-) Thanks for the tips though, I'll give that a try.
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#29 Apr 28 2011 at 7:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Execute is basically the "HIS HEALTH IS LOW BLOW HIM UP NAO!!!1" move.

Some similar abilities are Hammer of Wrath or Drain Soul. So yeah. It's a fun spell. :D
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#30 Apr 28 2011 at 10:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Here's my take on Mind Spike for what it's worth in PVE:

Mind Spike use is really about target remaining health. If a target is going to die inside of 15 seconds, Mind Spike is an option, sometimes a really good one. Good for a burn phase if short, good for right after Shadow Word-Death during an Execute phase. Good if you want to be bursty and are willing to forego dot damage to do so.

When Cataclysm dropped, everyone at first was in a mild panic about endgame mana usage. Dots are relatively expensive and even more so if the target dies before they run out. Perfect place for Mind Spike. Since our best damage is in our dots, it's not a spell that should be in your rotation if you're in an instance/raid. However, if you're one of those shadow priests that lamented the rampup time it took to get to full damage just to see the target die two seconds before you got everything going, Mind Spike is for you in that specific situation.

It's killer stuff for questing. Otherwise, very situational but really useful in just the right spot.

Execute phase is "FINISH HIM!!!!" in Mortal Combat basically. 25% target health or less: SW-D hits like a proverbial train (3X damage). Just mad numbers.
#31 Apr 29 2011 at 9:11 AM Rating: Good
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I always use Mind Spike on skull in trashpulls.
As soon as my DoTs are up on the other mobs(CC is already fading into the past) I Mind Spike/Mind Blast the focus-target.

Just had my first Zul Gurub run. Brave as I am I queued random and got together with 4 actually competent players. They were even kind enough to explain the endfight to me. All 3 DDs and the tank did more than 10k over the whole run and since there weren't many deaths I assume the healer also knew what he was doing.
So no Call to Arms windowlicker or anything.
Aaaand i got a nice 353 wand (Stam/Int/haste/crit) PLUS the epic 2hand staff from the endboss.
I <3 4.1!
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#32 Apr 29 2011 at 4:31 PM Rating: Decent
TherealLogros wrote:
I always use Mind Spike on skull in trashpulls.
As soon as my DoTs are up on the other mobs(CC is already fading into the past) I Mind Spike/Mind Blast the focus-target.


Isn't getting up DoTs and then casting Mind Sear on the tank a better option? I've been doing that in randoms since Tuesday, and last night I did 12k at level 83 in VP on one large group of trash. I was pretty stunned.
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#33 Apr 29 2011 at 7:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:

Isn't getting up DoTs and then casting Mind Sear on the tank a better option? I've been doing that in randoms since Tuesday, and last night I did 12k at level 83 in VP on one large group of trash. I was pretty stunned.


It very well may be now since Mind Sear damage was just doubled with the patch. It might not have been quite so viable before that.
#34 Apr 29 2011 at 10:38 PM Rating: Good
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Mind Sear is probably better to use in that situation, now. they doubled the damage in 4.1 meaning it actually does more damage than flailing a wet noodle at someone.
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#35 Apr 30 2011 at 6:07 AM Rating: Good
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
TherealLogros wrote:
I always use Mind Spike on skull in trashpulls.
As soon as my DoTs are up on the other mobs(CC is already fading into the past) I Mind Spike/Mind Blast the focus-target.


Isn't getting up DoTs and then casting Mind Sear on the tank a better option? I've been doing that in randoms since Tuesday, and last night I did 12k at level 83 in VP on one large group of trash. I was pretty stunned.



Yes noticed that too. Yesterday was the first day after 4.1 that saw me playing so my last post was a bit dated info-wise. :(
It also depends on the number of trashmobs and how high their HP are. If there are 4 or more mobs Mind Sear is king.
But if there are fewer mobs I still prefer Mind Spike. I'm not great with number crunching so maybe Mind Sear would be the better choice with 3 mobs too. But then the difference shouldn't be too big.


Edit: Forgot to mention that if there is a mob with high HP in the pull, high meaning 1M+, I tend to DoT up the other mobs with lesser HP and do my normal boss rotation on the big one.
Don't know if I get the most damage out of it this way but it prevents me from going oom which can happen very fast if I only use the Mind Spike / Mind Sear rotation on every pull.

Edited, Apr 30th 2011 8:10am by TherealLogros
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#36 May 02 2011 at 1:11 AM Rating: Decent
Okay, I have another rotation question. How often should I be casting Mind Blast? On CD or should I wait for Orb procs?

What I've been doing is putting up my DoTs, casting Mind Flay twice to get Archangel, activating that and my int tinker, and then refreshing DoTs and spamming Mind Flay until I get Orb procs and then casting Mind Blast. I've been doing pretty good damage with that, roughly 8 to 10k on most bosses, and having a much easier time figuring all this out then I did with my Boomkin. :-) That might have just been learning the dungeons too though, because I apparently only did 4k on Orsuk the other day, and that fight confuses me. I've only done Stonecore a few times on heroic though, so that's a large part of the problem.
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#37 May 02 2011 at 2:16 AM Rating: Good
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You need at least 1 orb to keep the Empowered Shadow buff rolling. You do want the +10% DoT damage right?
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#38 May 02 2011 at 3:26 AM Rating: Decent
Well, by orb procs I mean the full three when Mind Blast and Mind Spike start flashing. That's when I cast MB, once I get three orbs. So, should I cast MB whenever I have an orb, or is it better to wait until I have three so I can have 30% extra damage on MB?

Edited, May 2nd 2011 4:23am by PigtailsOfDoom
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#39 May 02 2011 at 10:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Well, by orb procs I mean the full three when Mind Blast and Mind Spike start flashing. That's when I cast MB, once I get three orbs. So, should I cast MB whenever I have an orb, or is it better to wait until I have three so I can have 30% extra damage on MB?


Don't wait for 3 orbs.

It gets complicated depending how much time is left on ES. But if ES>8 seconds, then MB on CD regardless of orbs is a DPS gain over MF.

In any case, always try to maximize ES since it's extra damage for your dots. If you get even 1 orb, MB will refresh ES. Hence, don't wait for 3 orbs.
#40 May 02 2011 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
Okay, thanks. If I cast DoTs before I get ES, do I need to recast them after to get the 10% damage buff, or will it apply to new ticks of the DoTs?
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#41 May 02 2011 at 8:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
Okay, thanks. If I cast DoTs before I get ES, do I need to recast them after to get the 10% damage buff, or will it apply to new ticks of the DoTs?


I almost mentioned this in the MB post.

Once ES is up, MindFlay will update the damage on Shadow Word:Pain on its own (for that target). If you're multi-dotting like mad you'll need to tab around to refresh it on everything you've dotted up.

The other dots (VT/DP) will need to be recast to get the extra damage. There's a whole other debate about recasting immediately or waiting until they would normally be cast again anyway.

What I do usually:

VT isn't an instant and has a relatively short run time so generally I refresh this when it's about to run out like normal.

DP on the other hand runs for a lot longer and is instant so if you just cast it or it has >15 seconds to run, you might want to refresh it early. Then again since DP is a mana hog and only goes to one target, you might not.

Since dots no longer clip, recasting early can be a DPS gain but it's situational. Your mileage may vary on all of this since gear and especially haste play a big role. And there's a fair amount of RNG involved with mastery and orbs.

Lastly, target health matters. When target health gets under 25%, then Shadow Word: Death becomes a major player in your priority system and that can effect how you handle this. Some fights I go all bursty if the dots are about to run out anyway and use Mind Spike(X3) and MB with Shadow Word: Death if I think that will end it. Other fights I keep the dots up and just weave Shadow Word: Death in with everything else.

It all depends and is one of the things I personally like about shadow priesting now. You have to pay attention and be flexible to do best damage.

You probably don't need this advice but I've found training dummies to be a lot of help in sorting things out and keeping sharp.

Hope this information is what you were looking for.



Edited, May 2nd 2011 10:15pm by Moanique
#42 May 02 2011 at 8:13 PM Rating: Decent
Definitely, thanks Moanique.
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#43 May 03 2011 at 12:02 AM Rating: Good
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Um... Yeah. Pretty much everything Moanique said is spot on.
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#44 May 19 2011 at 5:22 AM Rating: Good
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http://wow.joystiq.com/2011/05/18/spiritual-guidance-will-patch-4-2-redefine-what-it-means-to-be/

Good to know they are balancing the game around people who don't play their class to the fullest.
Note: I don't consider myself the best-in-class player type who will get hit by this the hardest. So this has nothing to do with elitism.
But now my incentive to become better is somewhat diminished.
Shouldn't they balance every class around what is possible to do with it?


Edit: typo

Edited, May 19th 2011 7:22am by TherealLogros
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#45 May 19 2011 at 9:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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TherealLogros wrote:

Good to know they are balancing the game around people who don't play their class to the fullest.


I'm relatively neutral about the changes just so you know where I'm coming from.

As for balancing, it's quite true that on certain fights if you're very good at maintaining dots on multiple targets you can consistently do top-of-the-charts damage. So to that extent, I think the nerf to dots is exactly about balancing the class around players who play the class to the fullest. Those players are consistently #1 on those fights. Theoretically, in a 'balanced' game, 5 top flight players of different classes would trade the top spot around.

Players who don't play the class to the fullest will likely see an increase in damage. I'm very carefully defining those players as those who have difficulties multi-dotting (or simply don't like to do it) and lean toward using direct damage spells anyway. They're going to see a 12% increase in their favorite spells. None of this explains why they're reducing DP by 12% since it's a single-target dot but it is what it is.

As an aside, a lot of the article is informed speculation and has at least one outright error. Though Fox is one of my favorite writers on spriesting, his assertion that mastery has been nerfed (1.5% to 1.45%) is incorrect. Shadow mastery has been at 1.45% since 4.0.6. The 'nerf' is an update to the tooltip which was rounding up. This is why it's not in the PTR notes.




Edited, May 19th 2011 11:43am by Moanique
#46 May 19 2011 at 2:48 PM Rating: Decent
I'll admit, I'm still struggling to get the hand of Multi-dotting. It depends on the fight and how comfortable I am with it. Omnitron I have no issues, but V&T still feels really hectic to me, so I struggle with it quite a bit. And I feel a bit like a moron because of it too, because multi dotting with Boomkins is a lot easier than with shadow priests since Boomkin DoTs last for the same amount of time. >.>
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#47 May 20 2011 at 6:31 AM Rating: Good
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
I'm still struggling to get the hand of Multi-dotting.


Pretty much this. But now I have 12% less motivation to even bother. And that is IMO a step in the wrong direction.

@Moanique: Yes you are right. It is balancing the damage the top shadowpriest can deal. My choice of words was rather poor. ;)
But I think if a player has the skill and the patience to multiDOT and to do so effectively enough to top the charts then they deserve to be there. I don't play any other class/spec in the current endgame so I really can not comment on the difficulty of their rotations/priority systems but from what I gathered reading on ZAM, WoWInsider and similar sources, shadowpriests linger on the more complex end of the spectrum. So why not reward someone who squeezes every possible damagepoint out of this class?
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#48 May 20 2011 at 1:52 PM Rating: Decent
Really? On the more complex end? Well that definitely does something to boost my ego. Especially considering Boomkins are even more complex. Smiley: glare It's still worth learning how to effectively multi-dot for the current tier at the very least.
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#49 May 20 2011 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
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Maybe I'm totally off with that statement. :)
Like I said that's just the impression I've got from a lot of lurking (and reading) online.
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#50 May 20 2011 at 2:48 PM Rating: Decent
Well, the eclipse mechanic is just a major pain, especially in movement or add phases. It's best to be in Solar eclipse so you can spam Sunfire and mushrooms, as well as keep Insect Swarm up. Trying to time things properly so that you are in Solar eclipse during those phases is tricky and annoying. That's one thing I love about Shadow Priest. It's really easy to keep Empowered Shadows up almost 100% of the time, there's no worry about timing anything. The only thing about Shadow Priest that is trickier is keeping up DoTs, since there's three of them instead of two, and they all have different time lengths.
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#51 May 21 2011 at 10:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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TherealLogros wrote:
Maybe I'm totally off with that statement. :)
Like I said that's just the impression I've got from a lot of lurking (and reading) online.


With regard to PVE, I don't think the impression that we're at the more difficult end of the scale is a false one necessarily. I can't speak to PVP since my efforts there have been anywhere from pathetic to catastrophic :)

Playing a shadow priest at an average level (whatever that means but work with me here) is not overly difficult. However, playing one really well and consistently squeezing out that last 10%-15% of your theoretical damage is a lot harder than it used to be.

The devs promised spriests burstiness at Blizzcon (and many scratched their heads and laughed a lot) and have largely delivered on that (and still are). When to be bursty and when to be more traditional with damage over time is now a factor. It's two pretty different play styles.

There are a bunch of situational abilities to think about:

As mentioned above, we're not just strictly about dots now; we have to watch for target low health burn phases because we do something different there; there's RNG associated with proccing of orbs and its relationship to Empowered Shadows; Archangel for those who have it; Shadowfiend; the list goes on. In a 10-person group, we may be called upon to drop a shield on someone or toss out a Hymn. CC abilities are not as strong as other classes but MC is always an option. Silence is sometimes useful. AOE is back.

That much flexibility has its perks but it has a downside of complicating things a bit. I'm running my main with two shadow builds, one for max DPS and the other with control abilities just so I can switch between fights if necessary.

During a long fight there's a lot of things to juggle on top of multi-dotting. Having to move during all of this is just another thing to deal with.

None of this is to complain, however. It's all part of what makes shadow priesting so damn interesting.

That said, it's fair to say that everything (damage, tanking, healing) has gotten harder in Cataclysm for everyone. Class rotations are pretty much a thing of the past; everyone has priority systems now and a variety of situational abilities. And many think the game is more difficult; some a lot more difficult (not to mention dramatic rewrites of class abilities every so often).

EDIT: For clarity and because I just can't seem to get it exactly right the first time.



Edited, May 21st 2011 1:16pm by Moanique
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