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Some blue Q&A on DruidsFollow

#1 Feb 23 2011 at 6:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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1)

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1. Low Level Tanking--When Cata came out, there were countless changes and it was obvious that a lot of thought had gone into class design all around. 3 out of 4 tanking classes were given excellent, very powerful tools to help them breeze through low lvl dungeons and hold agro from heirloomed mages and warlocks. Low lvl dungeons are not like Cata dungeons. Warriors, DKs and Paladins almost never stop running while they are in them. We can clearly see that thought went into their design so they could do their job. Feral has no such tools. I shouldn’t have to explain how horrid feral tanking is before lvl 81, because I am confident that you already know it since it is your game. We feel like you put thought into the other classes and then just skipped us entirely.


blue wrote:
To your first point, we do think this is a legitimate concern. While we spend most of our fine-tuning at max level, we also want things to feel good at lower levels as well.The new bear AE rotation was based around Thrash, which is a high level spell. It works at high level, but without Thrash there is a lot of down time and it can be hard to AE tank. Since lower level dungeons don’t tend to be balanced on a razor’s edge, AE’ing is the norm, which can feel bad for lower level druids. We do think this is a problem and we’d like to address it at some point in time.


2)

Quote:
2. Feral PvP—Many classes complain about PvP and nerfs, but the reason it hurts us feral so much is that through our entire existence, we have never been a good class that you would want as your partner in arena. We were always overshadowed by the other melee classes. For a SHORT time at the beginning of Cata, we were strong in large part because our bleeds were stronger than they were in Wrath. In response to this, not only was the bleed problem fixed but we, as a pvp class, lost so much utility that we are now in a worse situation than we were in the 3 previous expansions. In addition, we felt that our most unique abilities were the ones being targeted. Mangle is not unique and bleeds are not unique. But shapeshifting is who we are. But the reason we felt so frustrated about this was how easily it seemed to us that the decision was to throw it out. We made posts with more than 100 pages of feedback that are still active today but we have heard only a vacuum from you regarding this complete change of our spec and our identity.


blue wrote:
On the second point, we’ve been over this issue quite a bit, but the core issue is that Ferals used to not have a lot of utility in PvP, but were also really hard to control. We watched as players told us over the years that they wanted more utility so that they could actually be a valuable member of their team, so we gave Ferals a lot of utility they didn’t have before, but in turn we thought it was fair to make them slightly easier to control. We realize there are a few different ways we could have gone on this and that some players would no doubt have preferred to keep the iconic ability to not be crowd controlled instead of gaining things like an interrupt and better crowd control of their own.


3)

Quote:
3. Bear threat—The reason we feel frustrated, primarily, is that in the first patch of cata there were 2 obvious conclusions to be drawn from bear tanking: our single target threat was too high and our aoe threat was too weak (both are relative comparisons to the other 3 tanks). We expected fixes. However, it really irked us that you were so selective in choosing what to address. ONLY our good point was addressed and our bad point has been left untouched even though virtually every player will admit that in a dungeon, you better be EXTRA careful with your dps if your tank is a bear because bears are weaker than the other 3 tanks at holding multiple mobs even if they do everything perfectly. It removes a lot of fun to be thought of as the “gimpy” one especially if there is nothing you can do about it (it also discourages us from tanking which then hurts everyone because of the tank shortage). Again, this can be dealt with by begging the dps to take it easy on you but it is no fun to know you are the only class that has to beg like that. Sure, Cata has less aoe tanking and more CC, but there is no reason for 1 tank to continue to be significantly weaker than the others when the difference is so obvious.


blue wrote:
On the third point, we just don’t see this issue at level 85. All four of the tank classes seem to be performing well in both 5-player dungeons and in raids. We see all four tanks being used at a variety of levels. We just disagree that the difference is that obvious. Savage Defense might make bears take more damage on AE pulls in 5-player dungeons than other tanks, but we don’t think AE threat generation is a problem (again when in reference to max level). Bears don’t have an ability that mimics Shield Slam as a very hard-hitting ability that can help establish initial threat, but that is more of a raiding problem in encounters with frequent spawning adds and not really an issue with Swipe or Thrash.


AoE threat generation isn't a problem at max level, so they say. Sounds like they want to fix it pre-Thrash though.

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#2 Feb 24 2011 at 5:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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All most all of the utility feral brings is because of PS, which requires uptime... Which we just lost. DERP

I hate tanking heroics. It is painful. Raid bosses are w/e, no issue there. But trash. FUCK NO

I would rather shave my balls with a rusty axe than level a bear via the LFG tool. Just saying.

Fuck you Blizz, you made my favorite spec only fun for raid bosses, but that is not how the game works. DIAF.
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#3 Feb 24 2011 at 5:30 AM Rating: Good
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I don't see how they can possibly make the claim that 85 AoE threat isn't an issue. Sure, if your party waits 15 seconds you'll probably be fine. But LOL when does that happen?

And the point wasn't to give them utility at the cost of mobility. The point was to give an arena team a reason to have a Feral.

Frankly, I fail to see how giving a class an interrupt warrants completely stripping their mobility away.
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#4 Feb 24 2011 at 7:03 AM Rating: Good
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Dodgy replies, as was expected.

I almost choked on my glass of water when I read the part about high level AOE tanking. If they haven't stumbled across the same issues as everyone else then it's because their in-house testing team is rubbish and should be replaced.

The PvP reply sounds like a case of this:

Sanya wrote:
The reason we are making changes to your archetype is because, dude, in case it wasn’t blindingly obvious, it was the last designed, least tested one we did. And a week before launch day some suit wandered downstairs and complained that he couldn’t solo, and the producer panicked. I’m sorry. You have no IDEA how sorry I am, because that particular suit quit before I could finish Operation Tuna Fish In The Ceiling Vent.


With a sprinkle of this:

Sanya wrote:
It’s just that we didn’t design the game for this playstyle, which is why watching you play is like watching someone walk on their hands and type with their feet. However, the industry is old enough now to accept that just because we didn’t DESIGN the game for your style doesn’t mean your money doesn’t spend as well as everyone else’s. We just don’t know what the **** to do about it. The changes you think are so reasonable would completely **** the game for the other 80% of our population.


-source-

If that is common behavior in the game industry then the conspiracy theories about the Feral PvP nerf aren't that far off. I know she's not a Blue, but she's a video game CM and knows the business. And the Druid class was, as far as I can remember, one of the last classes to be worked on in the game. Hence all the old class quests that lead to nowhere, the placeholder model for Travel Form and the Cat Form quest that never made it into the game.

Still don't get how they could make such a game-breaking change without at least doing some extensive testing. Rather they just threw it out there and despite 200+ pages of "holy crap, we just got hammered" posts, they went "um, yeah, no, we're still going with it" - eurgh!
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#5 Feb 24 2011 at 8:32 AM Rating: Good
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And when I say they are completly lost, people says I'm wrong...
They just don't know what the **** they are talking about. I already don't see any, ANY, feral druid tanks in lower levels, and I am just leveling an alt mage.
And bear AoE threat? Unless you outgear the content for a fair margin, you will fail in aoe tanking.
What the **** are they talking about? This dev team is worst then the people I work with, and some of my work mates here still work with Centura! Crappy dev team is crappy.
#6 Feb 24 2011 at 8:51 AM Rating: Good
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Also, Patch 4.1 (not confirmed, possibly only data mined stuff):

Quote:
Druid
Feral
Mangle now deals 260% normal damage plus 754, up from 235% plus 682.
Maul now scales from 26.4% of Attack Power, up from 24%.
Thrash now deals [202 + 12.8% of AP] to [249 + 12.8% of AP] damage instead of [202 + 15.4% of AP] damage. Bleed damage now scales from 6.51% of AP, down from 7.8%.


-sauce-

They buffed Mangle and Maul (wait, didn't they nerf those two in the last patch?) and nerfed Thrash. After just telling Bear Druids that they didn't see anything wrong with Bear AOE at level 85.

It's... I don't even...

I need a silent stare smiley.
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#7 Feb 24 2011 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
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Smiley: glare?
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#8 Feb 24 2011 at 9:13 AM Rating: Good
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No, not an angry stare, just a blank, silent stare. Like it's thinking "I don't even..."
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#9 Feb 24 2011 at 9:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
No, not an angry stare, just a blank, silent stare. Like it's thinking "I don't even..."


May I recommend: Smiley: jawdrop

Yeah, that's all sorts of screwed up. And just as I started to think of Pally as my main tank, Word of Glory gets a shiny new 20 second cooldown. Not nearly as big a loss, but it makes me wonder what else they'll have thrown their way...
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#10 Feb 24 2011 at 9:52 AM Rating: Good
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I don't know how strong WoG is at higher levels, but as far as I've leveled my paladin it's pretty much strong enough to allow a decent protadin to solo equal level instances.
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#11 Feb 24 2011 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
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I healed 1.2 million in a Grim Batol run, doing ~20% of all the healing done in that run. Compared to my Druid's 300k or so in an identical run.

However, I've always felt that my Paladin needed to use WoG that much (basically every three GCD) as it kept me afloat. I've tried to compare healer mana with my Druid and Paladin runs and it seems like the healer runs out of mana equally fast, so either they're overhealing like crazy on my Paladin, or my Druid just takes a lot less damage in 5-mans (which would be inconsistent with reports from the community).

I'm so confused. Of all the self-healing tanks in the game, I thought they'd nerf Death Knights first. But they just got buffed.

It's... I really need that smiley. And the jaw-drop one is good, but not usable here. I need a smiley like this -> :|

Found a gif.

Edited, Feb 24th 2011 5:10pm by Mazra
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#12 Feb 24 2011 at 10:21 AM Rating: Good
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Don't trust the datamined info, they also have the hunter Aspect of the Hawk change that's already live.
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#13 Feb 24 2011 at 10:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'd like to see the Smiley: disappointed without the head shaking; just the blank stare... call it [:unimpressed:], would work well. Smiley: grin

More on topic, if they don't fix bear soon I see me going boomkin, at least for a while.
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#14 Feb 24 2011 at 10:38 AM Rating: Good
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selebrin wrote:
Don't trust the datamined info, they also have the hunter Aspect of the Hawk change that's already live.


Gah, knew I should have copied it while I was in the thread. The Blue in the OP replies later on to the OP who asks what they're doing to balance out the 6% AP loss that a lot of Druids received in 4.0.6 and the Blue mentions that Mangle and Maul are being buffed, which is what the data mined stuff shows.

Along with Thrash's scaling being reduced, of course.
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#15 Feb 24 2011 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good
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Bahaha!

Patch 4.1 wrote:
All non-damaging interrupts off the global cooldown will now always hit the target. This includes Pummel, Shield Bash, Kick, Mind Freeze, Rebuke, Skull Bash, Counterspell, Wind Shear, Solar Beam, Silencing Shot, and related player pet abilities."


So, back to stacking mastery, huh?

Fun.
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#16 Feb 24 2011 at 3:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Saw that change, or revert as that is how it was when Cata first came out, and /facepalm.

I'm convinced that most of the competent devs are working on a different game.
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#17 Feb 24 2011 at 3:52 PM Rating: Good
I certainly don't mind them flipping back that change! Now I won't have to reforge every piece of gear each time I get an upgrade to try and exactly hit the cap. Makes it so I probably don't need to use Rawr to gem/chant/forge my gear :)

And the tanks won't have to worry about being hitcapped on our 10 man! Yay.

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#18 Feb 24 2011 at 4:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's not entirely impossible that Activision or Blizzard suits pulled off manpower to go work on some other project.

Right now, reading patch notes, looking at the current state of the game and reading Blue replies, I get this mental picture of a group of developers trying to prevent a huge house of cards from falling apart. They're holding it upright, but cards are tumbling out between their arms and hands, and every time someone tries to grab the falling cards, even more cards fall out.

Looking at the threads in the official forums, I've got a feeling this game will go out with a bang. Can't be long before we start seeing CM drama again as well.

It's my belief that if this keeps up, there won't be any more expansions. They'll shut down WoW and release Titan. Wouldn't be the first time a video game company kills one of their own games to promote another. Besides, after Deathwing, who the **** will be the next villain? Ragnaros was the elemental boss. Illidan was the demon boss. Arthas was the undead boss. Deathwing is the dragon boss.

They're running out of types here.
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#19 Feb 24 2011 at 4:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
It's not entirely impossible that Activision or Blizzard suits pulled off manpower to go work on some other project.

Right now, reading patch notes, looking at the current state of the game and reading Blue replies, I get this mental picture of a group of developers trying to prevent a huge house of cards from falling apart. They're holding it upright, but cards are tumbling out between their arms and hands, and every time someone tries to grab the falling cards, even more cards fall out.

Looking at the threads in the official forums, I've got a feeling this game will go out with a bang. Can't be long before we start seeing CM drama again as well.

It's my belief that if this keeps up, there won't be any more expansions. They'll shut down WoW and release Titan. Wouldn't be the first time a video game company kills one of their own games to promote another. Besides, after Deathwing, who the **** will be the next villain? Ragnaros was the elemental boss. Illidan was the demon boss. Arthas was the undead boss. Deathwing is the dragon boss.

They're running out of types here.


You so wise or drunk. Either way.
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#20 Feb 24 2011 at 4:31 PM Rating: Good
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Horsemouth wrote:
You so wise or drunk. Either way.


Man, I wish.

Got two cold ones calling my name, but I'm sick and I have to go to work in the morning. This weekend, though, I'll pull out them chilly cans and go roast some marshmallows over on the Oboards. Then I'll make embarrassingly drunken posts here and crash on my floor again.

**** yeah, living the good life.

Edit: I'm pretty high on C-vitamin, though. Yeah, that didn't sound as cool as I'd thought.

Edited, Feb 24th 2011 11:34pm by Mazra
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#21 Feb 24 2011 at 5:48 PM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
It's not entirely impossible that Activision or Blizzard suits pulled off manpower to go work on some other project.

Right now, reading patch notes, looking at the current state of the game and reading Blue replies, I get this mental picture of a group of developers trying to prevent a huge house of cards from falling apart. They're holding it upright, but cards are tumbling out between their arms and hands, and every time someone tries to grab the falling cards, even more cards fall out.

Looking at the threads in the official forums, I've got a feeling this game will go out with a bang. Can't be long before we start seeing CM drama again as well.

It's my belief that if this keeps up, there won't be any more expansions. They'll shut down WoW and release Titan. Wouldn't be the first time a video game company kills one of their own games to promote another. Besides, after Deathwing, who the **** will be the next villain? Ragnaros was the elemental boss. Illidan was the demon boss. Arthas was the undead boss. Deathwing is the dragon boss.

They're running out of types here.

TBH, that's pretty much my feeling on it, too. I saw this happening way too much to not be skeptical.
Well, at least we will have some CM drama. It's always entertaining for a little while.
#22 Feb 24 2011 at 11:52 PM Rating: Good
I can't see it happening in the near future. Blizzard are still making a metric crap-ton of $$$ out of the game. Subscription numbers would have to drop massively for them to pull the plug. Everquest, Ultima Online and Star Wars: Galaxies are all still running on miniscule budgets compared to WOW.

And Blizzard know that Titan is far from a sure thing to convert everyone too. Many would quit MMO's all together once leaving WoW and many others would also switch to rival MMO's such as The Old Republic. Currently, WoW is their goldmine and Titan is an unknown quantity which they *hope* will be bigger and better but cannot be sure.

There aren't many low-pop servers out there atm and mine is only slightly less busy than it was when Cata came out.

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#23 Feb 25 2011 at 2:30 AM Rating: Good
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I'm pretty sure that they'll release Titan first and if they want to only run one MMO they'll offer Titan with a discount for WoW players or something along those lines to try and seduce as many people as possible to start playing Titan before they pull the plug on WoW.
Hell, maybe WoW will continue anyway but on a small budget for a few more years as long as it's still running a profit.

Edit: They certainly won't want to hurt WoW until Titan is a success so that if Titan fails, they'll still have WoW.
And there's also Diablo III coming up, SC2 is still fairly new and probably requires a good deal of manpower, it's not like early WoW anymore when WoW was the only game Blizzard was busy with.

Edited, Feb 25th 2011 9:33am by Aethien
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#24 Feb 25 2011 at 8:15 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
SC2 is still fairly new and probably requires a good deal of manpower


Funny you should mention it.

A leaked conversation between two professional SC2 players (IdrA and inControL) caused quite an uproar in the community lately. The conversation has the two players discussing how Blizzard's current failure at balancing the game might be because there are only two developers assigned to it.

It hasn't been confirmed yet, but I wouldn't be surprised. The players mention changes that Blizzard has considered that make no sense to people actually playing the game. One faction is very underpowered, so they nerf another faction and buff the third, making the underpowered faction remain underpowered, just to a different faction now.

Remind you of something? Smiley: lol
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#25 Feb 25 2011 at 9:11 PM Rating: Good
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What I don't get is why they aren't hiring more Devs? I mean, it isn't like they are lacking money...
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#26 Feb 26 2011 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
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Friar RareBeast wrote:
And Blizzard know that Titan is far from a sure thing to convert everyone too. Many would quit MMO's all together once leaving WoW and many others would also switch to rival MMO's such as The Old Republic.


Was so focused on finding that SC2 link for Aeth that I forgot to mention this.

According to supposed EA employees, The Old Republic is going to blow. They're reporting the same failure of communication as was seen in Warhammer Online. Don't know how much of it is just BS, but it will be interesting to watch what happens when SW:TOR is released.
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#27 Feb 26 2011 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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According to supposed EA employees, The Old Republic is going to blow. They're reporting the same failure of communication as was seen in Warhammer Online. Don't know how much of it is just BS, but it will be interesting to watch what happens when SW:TOR is released.


I seriously hope this isn't the case, because it looks awesome. D:
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#28 Feb 26 2011 at 12:17 PM Rating: Good
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The videos I've seen show a more polished game than Warhammer Online has ever been, but it's still EA and Mythic suits in charge of the development. Same people who managed to kill off the Warhammer Online game before it even got started.

"Why Warhammer Failed"

It's an interesting read and too many other bloggers (some not even anonymous) are saying the same thing for it to be entirely untrue.

Also an interesting story is the blog entry that inspired the above blog:

"EA: The Human Story"

Edit: Should be noted that the last story is five years old and EA has since then been forced to change their methods of handling "crunches" (deadline rushes). Newly employed software engineers (developers) are now classified as hourly employed artists and get paid for overtime.

Edited, Feb 26th 2011 7:27pm by Mazra
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