Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Arcane vs Fire - Not much DifferentFollow

#1 Jan 28 2011 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,634 posts
I'm speaking from the mid level (End Game) - Not progression, not trapped in quest greens. So - I'm in mostly "Badge" Gear and 346 Heroics. I have Blue Gems, one or two Greens. Everything is enchanted - even if it's an Old Wrath Enchant. (Blackmagic is still easy for me with a 'chanter alt)

I'm not seeing this massive difference in DPS that people at high levels are seeing. If the RNG smile on me as a Fire - I can stack about 10k for my combustion. IF I'm super super lucky I can Spread combustion. But most time the RNG treats me like normal. I get about a 6-7k combustion and spreading it either doesn't happen or happens, but the other mobs die so quickly it doesn't matter.

In arcane I can /oom on trash pulls or the various "BIG" Trash mobs.... But if I just common sense and a little mana management - I'm usually easily doing 10k DPS.

So my findings:

Fire (Lucky with RNG) - 16 to 18k (Roughly 10% of the time)
Fire (Normal RNG) - 8-10k (Roughly 90% of the time)
Arcane (RNG is not an issue) - 10-11k (Roughly 100% of the time)

Frost is horribly lagging, but I have no idea how to FROST DPS - I'm Pulling 4.5k atm.


From a Damage perspective. On every fight my DPS rank is > my Damage Rank. But my damage rank is not terrbly lagging the others... It's usually about 120k maybe to 200k on most boss fights. (As I'm crit'ing for 40-55k - that's really not much more than a few shots...)


____________________________
Most things you worry about never happen anyway.
#2 Jan 28 2011 at 9:47 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
******
27,456 posts
Borsuk wrote:
I'm not seeing this massive difference in DPS that people at high levels are seeing. If the RNG smile on me as a Fire - I can stack about 10k for my combustion. IF I'm super super lucky I can Spread combustion. But most time the RNG treats me like normal. I get about a 6-7k combustion and spreading it either doesn't happen or happens, but the other mobs die so quickly it doesn't matter.
The biggest issue is movement fights. Compare "Damage" instead of DPS between the specs on those kinds of fights and you'll see where arcane lags most. Also, once the RNG becomes less of a factor(as your gear gets higher), fire tends towards always outputting higher.

For me, my "percentage of damage done" is always higher than my "percentage of DPS" simply because once a fight starts, I'm always DPSing, barring gimmicks.
____________________________
Someone on another forum wrote:
Wow, you've got an awesome writing style.! I really dig the narrator's back story, humor, sarcasm, and the plethora of pop culture references. Altogether a refreshingly different RotR journal (not that I don't like the more traditional ones, mind you).

#3 Jan 29 2011 at 6:02 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
3,157 posts
4.5k....
Frost is mostly the same as it used to be. Ice lance is more important, and timing is a little more important.
Frostbolt most of the time. You base your rotation around procs.
IF you have Brainfreeze but no Fingers of Frost, wait until you have 1 FoF or BF is getting close to expiring.
If you have BF and 2 FoF, pop one more FB, and at the VERY end of that cast, pop FFB, Ice Lance, and another IL if you get a BF proc off the FB.
What happens, is that you fire the FFB at the exact same time as the FB. FFB moves faster than frostbolt, and strikes the target, consuming your BF and the first FoF. By the time FB hits, the ICD on both BF and FoF is reset, and the frostbolt can trigger either or both.
These 'combos' are the key to high DPS numbers.
Burning your FoF IL at one FoF charge is going to kill your DPS. Burning a BF FFB without a FoF to crit the FFB is going to kill your DPS.
Use cooldowns all at once instead of spacing them out. This means IV, Trinkets, Mirrors, Racials, Herbalism, all at once. If you CAN'T pop them all at once, don't pop them. The exception is trinkets with short cooldowns that can pop more than once per MI.
You have time to Cold Snap and get another IV in before your images are dead, if you like.
In the last second or so of Images, if the tank doesn't have a TON of threat yet pop invis. Dead DPS does 0 DPS, and a full burn at the beginning of the fight as a frost mage will net you TONS of threat. You're OK while the MI are up because they soak threat for you.

This is all from beta memory as well as lower level and level 80 heroic post Cata experience. I don't have Cata so I can't comment on the latest and greatest end game frost mage changes, but from patch notes, none of the changes swap up the rotation since it went live.
____________________________
Cicorest, Mage||Das Führer, DK||Nalgas, Rogue
^Cenarian Circle^
1983 Mazda RX7 GSL - Rexie - My Garage

"Saying that a druid can go resto and do well in arena and saying that a hunter can't do the same doesn't make any sense whatsoever." - Wait
#4 Jan 31 2011 at 9:49 AM Rating: Good
Sage
**
363 posts
Yeah, jay's thoughts on frost fit in with my experience at 85.

I switched to fire for 2 reasons:
1) The quirks of my internet connection mean that my lag varies a bit, and I was having trouble consistently getting FFBs and Ice Lances out at the right times, although it is a LOT of fun when things are working right. (Ok, looking at this statement again, maybe I should just admit that I'm not good enough with Frost, and Fire is easier.)

2) I hate having a pet.

That all said, 4.5k? That's not indicative of where the spec is, it's a sign that you're not very familiar with it. On a dummy, I get comparable DPS from frost and fire (both very RNG dependent). In a real fight (with movement), fire is ~1.5k higher.
____________________________
this page purposefully left empty
#5 Jan 31 2011 at 2:40 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
3,157 posts
I should mention that on a boss, the spell I forgot, Deep Freeze, should be used ASAP when it's available, ignoring all other priorities.

Also, I was playing around with FrostFire Orb a little when it went instant cast, but have no clue how it affects the live rotation. I assume it's like beta and fun, but mostly useless on a boss.
____________________________
Cicorest, Mage||Das Führer, DK||Nalgas, Rogue
^Cenarian Circle^
1983 Mazda RX7 GSL - Rexie - My Garage

"Saying that a druid can go resto and do well in arena and saying that a hunter can't do the same doesn't make any sense whatsoever." - Wait
#6 Feb 01 2011 at 1:02 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
******
27,456 posts
jaysgsl wrote:
Also, I was playing around with FrostFire Orb a little when it went instant cast, but have no clue how it affects the live rotation. I assume it's like beta and fun, but mostly useless on a boss.
Don't mages use it in PvP to spam a ton of FoF procs? Wouldn't that be pretty useful on a boss?


Seriously though, I know almost nothing about frost right now so I could be talking out my ***.
____________________________
Someone on another forum wrote:
Wow, you've got an awesome writing style.! I really dig the narrator's back story, humor, sarcasm, and the plethora of pop culture references. Altogether a refreshingly different RotR journal (not that I don't like the more traditional ones, mind you).

#7 Feb 01 2011 at 1:09 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
3,157 posts
I don't know about Frost endgame, all of my data for 85 is from Beta. So, as I said, grain of salt.
____________________________
Cicorest, Mage||Das Führer, DK||Nalgas, Rogue
^Cenarian Circle^
1983 Mazda RX7 GSL - Rexie - My Garage

"Saying that a druid can go resto and do well in arena and saying that a hunter can't do the same doesn't make any sense whatsoever." - Wait
#8 Feb 21 2011 at 4:25 PM Rating: Decent
1 post
I've actually noticed quite a large DPS difference between Fire and Arcane. It just took some experimentation and getting used to the nuances of fire. If there is more than one valid target engaged, I always try to wait until impact procs before I combust. I might even give it a couple seconds extra and hope for a Hot Streak ignite. That way, I know Combustion will get fully utilized. Granted, I'm in a little bit better than all blues, but all my epics are either crafted by myself or from faction purchases. As Arcane, I can normally pull 10k DPS without much problem. In Fire, with a little forethought and strategy, I can easily pull 14k on a single target boss fight. AoE fights aren't even fair to compare because a decent impacted combustion with BW/FS down can get me up into the 30k range almost instantly.

Edited, Feb 21st 2011 5:28pm by sinnister03
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 27 All times are in CDT
IDrownFish, Anonymous Guests (26)