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#1 Dec 09 2010 at 7:12 PM Rating: Decent
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I've been scratching my head for a while trying to figure out why my swipe doesn't hit anywhere close to the number it says in my tooltip. I think I finally figured out what the problem was. I just happened to be in caster form looking through my spell book and I noticed that my swipe damage was significantly lower then what I had seen that day. Till I realized when you hit bear form it scales it with your attack power. Anyway, I tested it and my swipe repeatedly hit for my non bear attack power modified damage. So is there a bug that prevents attack power from stacking onto swipe or was this done intentionally?
#2 Dec 09 2010 at 7:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Official Blue Post

Nevermind, seems I'm wrong about this. Please ignore.
#3 Dec 09 2010 at 8:05 PM Rating: Good
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Smiley: lol

We've discussed this in another thread. I was sure it was a bug and they'd accidentally locked the base value to level 1 (I based my assumption on calculations done over on Wowhead). Finally a Blue confirms the bug, but reports that it's the tooltip that's wrong.

Swipe is now officially useless. Might as well pull it off my actionbar and replace it with my dance macro.
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#4 Dec 09 2010 at 8:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Mazra wrote:
Swipe is now officially useless. Might as well pull it off my actionbar and replace it with my dance macro.


Yeah, thats pretty much the general consensus with everyone else. I just don't understand. maybe it's really good in conjunction with thrash I can't tell you till I get there. For now I will just bask in the frustration that is druid tanking.
#5 Dec 09 2010 at 8:45 PM Rating: Good
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I get that spamming Swipe pre-4.x was boring and had to be changed. I also get that the post-4.x Swipe hit like a truck and had to be changed.

What I don't get is where along the line Ghostcrawler's vision of making Bear tanking interesting mutated into a vision of pain and tears. Swipe is useless and Thrash is a level 81 ability. Apparently we're not meant to tank for the first 80 levels. But okay, I guess the dungeon queues weren't long enough in the lower levels as it was.

And don't mind that Warriors, Paladins and Death Knights are super beastly tanks all the way up through the levels. My Death Knight just hit level 60 and got Death & Decay, and she's now rocking 1k DPS as the tank, which is 400-500 DPS more than anyone else in the group. My Warrior, before becoming my Death Knight, was rocking 200-300 DPS at level 37 while tanking. Also about double the DPS of anyone else.

I get that the content at level 85 isn't AOE focused, but we still have 84 levels to go through before we get there. 20 of which are in Outland and Northrend - and I don't care what Xsarus says, I'm in the process of taking my Death Knight through Outland (again - wait, what?) and it's AOE heavy. AOE heavy indeed. One of the first quests has you fighting imps in packs of three. Of course, being a Death Knight without a gimped Swipe, I pulled three clusters of imps and nuked them down with a steady 1k DPS.

Go balance.

Edit: But it's okay. I think I'll go back to tanking and when people pull aggro off of me like snap, I'll just say it's working as intended. Might get booted from the group, but I get instant queues. Who gives a crap? I sure don't by now.

Edited, Dec 10th 2010 3:51am by Mazra
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#6 Dec 09 2010 at 9:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Decided to go heals actually, I just had the last straw in a dungeon about 5 minutes ago. Hellfire Ramparts blood furnace. Not only was I dealing with bad AoE, but I also have to deal with 5 second stuns. I was helpless while I watched my group get pulverized(no pun intended). Sure crowd control would have made the instance very doable, but it would take 3 times as long. Not to mention I can't get people to do what I like. They come in to dungeon groups to do as they please.

At least my warrior is still amazing and fun to tank with.
#7 Dec 10 2010 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
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I meant balance as in game balance, but yeah.

Bear tanking pre-81 is just horrible. From what I've read on the Oboards, post-81 isn't all that hot either. Not the same amount of AOE to deal with, making Lacerate and Maul spam doable, but Thrash is apparently quite underwhelming.
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#8 Dec 10 2010 at 11:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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The tooltip is the bug???
Screenshot
WTF seriously WTF.
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#9 Dec 10 2010 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
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From what I've read on the official forums, the following has been confirmed:

- Swipe's current damage is intended.
- Swipe's current tooltip is incorrect.
- Patch notes regarding Swipe's damage nerf were incorrect.

Apparently Swipe wasn't nerfed by 20% or 17%, or whatever it says in the patch notes. The damage has been calculated to 32% of the original value, which is less than the spammable version.

The forums over there were alight with flames last night.

And Xsarus, you need this image.

Edited, Dec 10th 2010 7:48pm by Mazra
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#10 Dec 10 2010 at 1:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Srsly Smiley: mad
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#11 Dec 10 2010 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
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Grand Master Alchemist Mazra wrote:
I meant balance as in game balance, but yeah.

Bear tanking pre-81 is just horrible. From what I've read on the Oboards, post-81 isn't all that hot either. Not the same amount of AOE to deal with, making Lacerate and Maul spam doable, but Thrash is apparently quite underwhelming.


Pre-81 bear tanking was making me miserable. Post 81 all is good in the world again.

I'm having a blast now and have next to no aggro issues. DPS pulls only when they are willfully ignoring kill targets or not paying attention. I need to setup my UI to track the Pulv buff better but otherwise it is pretty smooth sailing.

I've tanked all of the normal dungeons, didn't finish HoO as group collapsed do to loot drama. Most of them multiple times actually. Swipe is not a threat generator, it is a tool to help maintain threat. Thrash and the rest of the toolkit generates threat.

That being said, I couldn't imagine bring a bear up these days. Mangle, on CD; Maul, on CD; FFF, level 24+ a CD; Swipe, level 36 + a CD; Lacerate, level 66; Thrash, level 81 + a CD. Way to make bear tanking as a leveling method retarded.

Most other tanks get the bulk of their tools earlier so they can l2play. Bears don't get the whole thing until level 81 and don't even get their only spammable attack until level 66. So it is the rotate CDs and pray you hold aggro game until then against AoEing DPS in full BoA gear.

They seriously need to readjust the levels bears get some of their skills at, as the current pace is dumbz.

Tanking in Cata is awesome though. I'm enjoying it greatly.
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#12 Dec 11 2010 at 10:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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What I've been doing with Swipe is saving it for when something new spawns, or when we get an add. Thrash seems to do it's job rather well, although bleeds play hell if something that needs to be CC'd wanders into range.
#13 Dec 12 2010 at 2:48 AM Rating: Good
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I went ahead and bought Cataclysm, just to try out Thrash.

Bear tanking is still rubbish, though. At least in any dungeon up until Cataclysm. Ran some WotLK heroics and while Thrash is pretty good (basically the new Swipe), Swipe is not even worth the GCD anymore. My Thrash HITS for more than my Swipe crits. ******* fail.

Also, Bear tanking seems awkward with the lack of AOE abilities. If I miss something with Thrash, I'm basically screwed. Ran HoR heroic with some idiot DPS and even they managed to pull aggro from me. And I was doing 2k DPS more than any of them.

Blizzard has ruined a part of my class. They deserve pain for it.
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#14 Dec 14 2010 at 3:54 PM Rating: Good
All the bear tanks I have played with are loving the new content. The heroics are a fantastic challenge. The guild group I have been running with have finally managed to get the Cataclysm Dungeon Hero achievement (I still beed H.Deadmines due to a DC before the last 2 bosses) but it certainly hasn't been easy. Some pulls we use 2 entangling roots & a hunter trap to help reduce incoming damage and it makes a massive difference.

Forget HoR (which is a really bad instance to be testing Cata tanking mechanics - every fight is a crazy stupid AoE fest) and try regular Blackrock Caverns or Throne of Tides (the lower level 80-82 instances).

#15 Dec 30 2010 at 1:29 PM Rating: Decent
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I won't say tanking as bear post cata is broken- but right now my paladin is roughly 62% more enjoyable to play with better utilities. Latest patchnote: they are decreasing the selfheal of FR. On pally I can spam WoG on everyone to help healer during whole fight. Not to mention I have other heals I can cast without becoming squishy...
#16 Dec 30 2010 at 3:37 PM Rating: Good
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Vilaca wrote:
I won't say tanking as bear post cata is broken- but right now my paladin is roughly 62% more enjoyable to play with better utilities. Latest patchnote: they are decreasing the selfheal of FR. On pally I can spam WoG on everyone to help healer during whole fight. Not to mention I have other heals I can cast without becoming squishy...


I've been using the FR glyph since Cata came out. Its pretty bad *** 95% of the time.
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#17 Dec 31 2010 at 7:09 AM Rating: Good
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Vilaca wrote:
I won't say tanking as bear post cata is broken- but right now my paladin is roughly 62% more enjoyable to play with better utilities.


This is what I've come to realize as well. My Protadin seems to take less damage, hold aggro better and has a ton of utility that makes Skull Bash look like a racial. Avenger's Shield being ranged and silencing while hurting a lot? Hammer of the Righteous is like Thrash (with Seal of Truth active) except it effectively doesn't cost any resources. And it's on a 3-second cooldown. Oh, the lulz.

And Word of Glory is amazing. I ran a Nexus heroic and our healer apparently bailed while we were fighting the first boss. I didn't notice until someone queued us up again - two bosses later. Word of Glory, at level 82, crits for about 20k. That's insane. No, it's more than insane. It's @#%^ing insane.

I took out three other level 82 players (Rogue, Warrior and Death Knight) by just spamming Hammer of the Righteous and using Word of Glory to heal me for half my health pool.

My biggest issue right now is deciding if my Death Knight or Paladin are more fun tanking with. Death Knights do have some cool features, but I enjoy running around with a huge shield. Makes me feel all invulnerable and stuff.

Edited, Dec 31st 2010 2:10pm by Mazra
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