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Builds I'm looking at.Follow

#1 Nov 17 2010 at 8:43 PM Rating: Good
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Here are the three talent builds I'm looking at. Yay theorycraft.

Smitelolheal.
Highlights: An Absolution build. I had toyed with putting some in Veiled Shadows to unlock Twisted Faith, but an 18% hit glyph for Smite makes it moot. I skip Surge of Light because it's only marginally faster than another Smite.
Gearing: int, first and foremost; Rapture and Archangel are based on your max mana, and more spellpower is good for any build. Also prominently features crit and haste, but is light on mastery and spirit. The idea being your stream of "offensive" heals helps deal with the lack of mastery throughput and spirit is less important because of Rapture/Evangelism. The interesting thing is that, by doing this, you're still in the Disci mode of a pro-active "before damage happens" healer-- simply because you're healing all the time and don't care about your overheal because the nuke is never wasted. Fact: makes "You resisted my heal!" a potentially true statement.

Disc healer.
As high a single-target healing output as you can devise. Heal and Shield are the mainstays; both synergize well with Strength of Soul and Surge of Light. Gearing goals are int first, since that scales best overall, followed by mastery, haste, and distantly crit; spirit is potentially more important because this build has a worrisome lack of mana regeneration tools other than Rapture.

Cleric build (i.e. Holy healbot)
A healbot build with lots to manage. Ultimately versatile, in theory, with spells that boost every avenue of healing. The point in Veiled Shadows is a throw-awaym, it could have gone a bunch of different places with little change to the build.
This one requires finnesse and the best use of multiple cooldowns, i.e. Chakra management. You've gotta love the idea of being able to change roles completely in the middle of a fight. Crit is almost pointless for this build, which benefits more from int and haste and mastery; spirit is important as a secondary stat because Holy Concentration is your mana regen tool. Also not convinced with using too much haste because your GCD on Renew will already be capped. We'll see.



Food for thought.
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#2 Nov 18 2010 at 12:16 AM Rating: Good
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I currently doing Smite-spec.

The haste from darkness is better than mana reductions on spells I barely cast. PW:B glyph is kind of lame as it gets blown up really fast, so I've been using PoH as the other choices are worse.

As for gearing since Rapture isn't the force it once was, you need Spirit. Archangel is good but when stuff gets nutty you can't always Smite so again Spirit is needed. Have pushed haste to around 730, which is shy of the 2/3 Darkness soft cap but close enough for my needs. Crit is around 40% raid buffed all of it coming via Int and buffs. Have been playing with mastery and even for Smite spec I feel it is very efficient as I still use PW:S often. DA procs are beast now and account for a large chunk of my healing.

As a side note, did your links work as none go to level 85 and one only had 31 points.

If I was doing Smite at 85 I'd go with this spec.


Darkness is too awesome to skip so SoL and DP are out the window. I'd drop Inspiration if it wasn't so needed to grab VS but that will not be a valid option. I really miss DP, that spell was awesome.
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#3 Nov 18 2010 at 8:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm looking at this jack-of-all-Holy spec for healing 5-mans and battlegrounds at 85. If you can have Archangel, I don't know why you wouldn't. I may need to do something specific for raiding with my second spec, if I do much raiding, due to limited opportunities to Smite, but as an all-around build I don't think I'll find anything I like better.

The controversial thing about this build is the lack of Serendipity. As the OP notes, Holy has a lot of things to manage, and building two stacks of Serendipity with Flash Heal or Binding Heal is a lot to ask. I find Serendipity to be only marginally useful as it stands, but may change my mind if they change it to fire off other spells.

The glyphs are mainly centered around giving me more power when **** makes contact with fan. For more steady boosts I'd do things like the Dispel glyph instead.

Edit: WoW Head is being weird with the buildie links. I can't get it to save it at any higher level than 75. I'm using Armory instead for now but it doesn't show the glyphs.


Edited, Nov 18th 2010 9:09am by teacake
#4 Nov 18 2010 at 9:55 AM Rating: Decent
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I'll spec something like Smitelolheal/horsemouth, but where to put those last few points? Sadly, I can't see what you've chosen as wowhead talent calc only shows your lvl80 builds for me.

I hate that inspiration doesn't work with half of what I'll be casting, but someone somewhere will do some maths that says its a must have and I'll feel like I have to have it. Plus crit seems low priority otherwise. Grr..

Desperate prayer I won't bother with.

SoL. ChahDresh makes a good point - only marginally faster than another Smite, which itself is almost free. But I like instant casts and as atonement will only heal melee it might be nice between smites for topping off the ranged if needed or whatever. Keeping an open mind on this.

Points will go in EH probably, but I'd quite like improved renew too. Need to check what the maths says before considering it.

I like darkness, have it now, wonder if I'd feel the difference?

Veiled shadows, I'd never looked twice at before. I don't think I'd go for it myself, but wonder if it may be worth considering for a non-smite priest. Need to get into Cata and feel for myself how much mana will be an issue.
#5 Nov 18 2010 at 10:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Here’s the Holy PVP build I’m using right now:

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bcZfuRrRMdMhkb

If the Spirit of Redemption rez stun bug gets fixed, I’ll swap a point into it from Surge of Light. With a 30-second cooldown on Chakra, I don’t a reason to put points into State of Mind. Revelations would turn off Holy Word Chastise: no thanks.
#6 Nov 18 2010 at 10:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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teacake wrote:
The controversial thing about this build is the lack of Serendipity. As the OP notes, Holy has a lot of things to manage, and building two stacks of Serendipity with Flash Heal or Binding Heal is a lot to ask. I find Serendipity to be only marginally useful as it stands, but may change my mind if they change it to fire off other spells.


Serendipity becomes awesome with a /castsequence macro.

/castsequence (reset = 18) flash heal, flash heal, greater heal

The final greater heal is as fast as a flash heal, costs about 25% less mana, and gets twice as much benefit from your spell power: half a wrathful gladiator’s health bar, easily. This is what I spam when someone is getting focused. Crits are insane, and Echo of Light ticks like a second Renew. If I have a Guardian Spirit on that person, I can outheal three people’s DPS with ease.

I find that with that macro to keep track of my Serendipity procs, I can throw my instants around and not worry about when to hit GH instead of FH. I might eventually get fancy and add a modifier to cast binding heal instead of flash heal.
#7 Nov 18 2010 at 11:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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emmitsvenson wrote:
If the Spirit of Redemption rez stun bug gets fixed, I’ll swap a point into it from Surge of Light. With a 30-second cooldown on Chakra, I don’t a reason to put points into State of Mind. Revelations would turn off Holy Word Chastise: no thanks.


I'm pretty sure it's fixed! I've had SoR in my build for a week now and haven't had it happen.

I skip Revelations a lot too. (I've been respeccing frequently to try stuff out.) So much more fun for PVP.

Thanks for the macro, that looks like a good idea.
#8 Nov 18 2010 at 12:05 PM Rating: Good
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I'll use the MMO-champion calculator. To start with;

Quote:
Priest (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Holy
-Binding Heal base healing value increased by 20%, from [ 3960 - 5091 ] to [ 4752 - 6110 ]
-Greater Heal base healing value increased by 20%, from [ 6968 - 8098 ] to [ 8361 - 9717 ]
-Heal base healing value increased by 20%, from [ 2613 - 3037 ] to [ 3136 - 3644 ]
-Flash Heal base healing value increased by 20%, from [ 5227 - 6074 ] to [ 6272 - 7289 ]

This is awesome because I was already coping pretty much fine in heroics and am now downright 20% more effective.

As for specs; I'm currently rolling with these two. The disc one is pretty much what Horsemouth mentioned, except that I don't care for haste as you all know. The holy build is basically the normal level 85 one, but since I can't grab Archangel yet anyway I figured that instead of three more points in disc I'd just grab Test of Faith. My glyphs are constantly switched around now that I can, flipping that one slot between Mass Dispel, Holy Nova and Smite.

For Cataclysm, it currently looks like these will be our options:

Disc:
-Disc jack-of-all, picking up nearly half the disc tree to allow for Smite-healing or Heal-healing depending on what the situation is like. Probably my pick fo disc.
-Disc jack-of-all variation 2, the same thing but with Desperate Prayer instead of Power Infusion.
-Disc jack-of-all variation 3, disc for the OOM (or newbie) priest. No Surge of Light sucks, but you'll have an easier time keeping your mana up, as well as with managing aggro.
-Smiteless Disc, with 3 points that can go in Inner Sanctum, Deperate Prayer, Surge of Light, Empowered Healing, Darkness or Veiled Shadows, as seen fit. Whether this will be completely viable for raids remains to be seen, but I'll be damned if there won't be at least a small group of followers for it.
-Healless disc, with one point for Desperate Prayer, Mental Agility, Darkness or Veiled Shadows. I predict this is going to fail, though. Smite and Heal currently overlap to an extend, but while Heal could replace Smite in most cases to make Smiteless Disc an option, I don't think Smite can replace Heal. I could be wrong though, people will need to experiment with this.

Holy:
-Holy jack-of-all with Archangel. Fairly standard.
-Holy jack-of-all variation 2; less AoE heal, more tank heal. Bit more 5-man focused because of that.
-Holy jack-of-all variation 3, featuring sir Speedalot. This is probably what I'm going to go for in my holy build.
-Saturated Holy. No Archangel but Veiled Shadows to make up for that. Grabs really everything you want in the holy tree and adds some rough throughput. A solid build in its own right, with all the gimmicks there.
-Boring Holy. Assuming no Smite ends up being a viable option, this is what you'll see the min/maxers walk around with. All throughput and no play, avoiding all gimmicks and playthings in the holy tree just to get that extra % healing. Can possibly drop a point in Serendipity to pick up a point in Blessed Resilience.


On another note, I need to re-evaluate haste. Even though healing has been made less 'spammy' in Cata, you'll probably still spend 99% of your time casting.

The way healing works right now is that you're in a situation where everybody in the raid/group drops to around 70%, and you attempt to heal through any damage you can by just using Heal and Penance. If you stop healing for 5 seconds (or if someone stands in the fire, if the boss casts a big punch at the tank, etc), it's not that somebody will immediatly die, but instead the entire group will now be balanced around 50%. Another 5 seconds brings you down to 30%, at which one small error at their side (being slow on the fire) will kill them. That's where the rest of your heals come in - you'll need to use less efficient heals like Flash Heal to bring that balance back to at least 80%, and this will cost you in terms of mana.

While you still won't "need" haste as much as you won't "need" crit, ironically enough, haste seems to have done the opposite of what seemed logical to me and has become more valuable after all - if you have a lot of haste, you can get away with using Heal/Penance to heal up more severe damage, allowing you to cast less Flash Heals and thus save mana.

Edited, Nov 18th 2010 7:07pm by Mozared
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#9 Nov 18 2010 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
I'm running a Smitelolheal build. I've varied it a bit to have a little fun with reflective shield.
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#10 Nov 18 2010 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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Mozared wrote:
While you still won't "need" haste as much as you won't "need" crit, ironically enough, haste seems to have done the opposite of what seemed logical to me and has become more valuable after all - if you have a lot of haste, you can get away with using Heal/Penance to heal up more severe damage, allowing you to cast less Flash Heals and thus save mana.

Edited, Nov 18th 2010 7:07pm by Mozared


And faster Smites.
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#11 Nov 18 2010 at 2:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mozared wrote:
Holy jack-of-all variation 3, featuring sir Speedalot.


Love.
#12 Nov 18 2010 at 4:02 PM Rating: Good
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Is Inner focus really worth it and if so how do you use it.

I currently have it in my prayer of healing macro. Would you put it in a flash and healing macro?
#13 Nov 18 2010 at 4:17 PM Rating: Good
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I have IF keybound and hit it when ever it is off CD, sometimes I will go long stretches without using the buff like when I'm in town.

Glowing hands are fun.
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#14 Nov 18 2010 at 4:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Is Inner focus really worth it and if so how do you use it.

Yes, god, yes, oh yes, triple yes. It isn't the most convenient way of saving up mana and throwing down big heals, but it's disc's prime manner of doing this in Cata. The 45 second cooldown is something you really notice. I'd almost go as far as to say you want to use it every time it's off cooldown.
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#15 Nov 18 2010 at 4:29 PM Rating: Good
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Mozared wrote:
Quote:
Is Inner focus really worth it and if so how do you use it.

Yes, god, yes, oh yes, triple yes. It isn't the most convenient way of saving up mana and throwing down big heals, but it's disc's prime manner of doing this in Cata. The 45 second cooldown is something you really notice. I'd almost go as far as to say you want to use it every time it's off cooldown.


On CD is good for IF. It's not like fiend that restores mana, it just makes something free so always helps.

PI I also like to keep on CD to some extent. I am do like to save it for high damage phases but the mana savings are great for general use.
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