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Ghostcrawler on Druid healing Follow

#1 Aug 14 2010 at 8:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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There's was some Q:A going on with GC about the druid healing changes. Thought I'd copy-paste.

TL:DR:

-Efflorescence is probably overpowered Smiley: rolleyes
-They like the way Nourish is working
-They don't like pre-hotting as a strategy (kinda old news)

Ghostcrawler wrote:
As far as the history goes here, we thought at the time (and still think!) that the Resto druid wasn't going to be well served as a "I only care about hots and nothing else" healer. It's just too extreme a design. Any time when hots are good (by which I mean both individual encounters and periods in the game as a whole) the druid is going to dominate. Any time when hots are terrible, so will be druids. We probably, in retrospect, didn't push Nourish enough, because we still ended up in a raid healing situation where druids used Rejuv and Wild Growth and were loathe to use any other button.

We are going to push even harder in Cataclysm. Druids will still have exceptional hots, but will need to cast direct heals as well. I usually get a lot of responses after such a post from druids saying "But I only want to cast hots!" I'm not sure how to respond to that, because we just don't think it works. :(

As far as the AE healing goes, it's definitely something to keep an eye on, but we're not worried about it yet. We are trying to cut back (yet again) on the dominance of the smart AE heals. The cooldowns of CoH and WG need to stay high. We do have some room to lower the mana cost on WG, and probably will.

It's also worth mentioning that Efflorescence does some great AE healing, and is probably overpowered at the moment.

One change we are going to make is reintroducing the talent that lowers Rejuv to a 1 sec GCD. Since haste affects Rejuv ticks and since druids will be casting cast-time spells that benefit from haste, we're not as worried about druids turning up their noses at haste. This will let you get Rejuvs up on more people when you want to, though it still should be mana-inefficient to just do so at random. We think hots are going to be enormous in the Cataclysm healing model just because they won't be overhealing nearly as much as they are now.

We like the way Nourish interacts with hots. Yes, it's different from the way priests, paladins and shaman use their heals, but we do want the classes to play differently, as long as those differences aren't so extreme that you can't use a druid on some dungeon or raid fights.

I suspect we won't end up keeping the snare on Tree of Life. We knew that we could try snare and then remove it. We would have a hard time trying no snare and then adding one. Our intent was to make you think about when was the best time to push ToL rather that just hitting it the second it's off cooldown. In practice though we just think it feels crappy so even if it accomplishes our goal, it's probably not worth it.

We're still working on the Resto tree (and druids in general). You were missing the talent to lower the cast time of Nourish and Healing Touch, which is a pretty painful thing to live without. We're also considering changing Furor to provide intellect to caster form too so it is attractive to both caster trees. We agree that too much of the early Resto tree felt like it was there for Feral.

I'm talking PvE in almost all of this, since that was the original thrust of the thread.


Ghostcrawler wrote:

We don't like prehotting (or pre-shielding) as a general strategy. On certain fights where you know that the damage is going to come fast and furious then maybe it's appropriate, but we don't want the current LK style to continue. I've healed a lot as both Resto and Disc, so I know the power of prehealing, though it's not as if you need first-hand experience to understand how useful and powerful it is.

On the other hand, if a lot of people take damage at once, we have no problem with getting a Rejuv out on several of them at once, and a lower GCD will help there. It's still possible to ***** that up (by which I mean we want healing to have some player decision-making as part of the gameplay) by using too much mana on Rejuvs or casting too many Rejuvs when the situation called for something else.
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#2 Aug 14 2010 at 9:21 AM Rating: Good
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What the hell do I need a 1s GCD on Rejuvenation for if I'm not going to spam it? The only reason people want the 1s GCD is because it allows them to spam Rejuvenation on more people. I'm sure we could live with the 1.3s GCD we'd get from the haste. Bloated talent tree is getting bloated again.

Edited, Aug 14th 2010 5:23pm by Mazra
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#3 Aug 15 2010 at 11:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ya i don't know. I mean the shorter GCD is sexy for boosting your HPET and all. But if we stop spamming heals, it does start to look less attractive. Not that I don't mind a boost or anything, but a lot of what's been written prior makes it sound like we'd be basing most of the healing decisions on our mana pool and not on maximizing our output. I can't say I notice that extra 10% on Lifebloom these days, for comparison.

That seems like it's going to be really hard to balance. Inefficient enough to make us not spam it all the time, but good enough that we'll spam it sometimes? I don't envy that job...

On a side note, I wouldn't mind the change to Furor, could make for some interesting choices in an otherwise straight-forward tree.

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#4 Aug 15 2010 at 4:51 PM Rating: Good
With you getting an instant tick on rejuv (not having to wait for 3sec like current) being able to spam it on a few people quickly certainly is useful. Someone used the example :-

Quote:
I'm going to assume that the lowered GCD is to allow for situations where Players A, B, and C got him by a small AOE and were taken down to 70% health. Nourish is too slow to heal all three, Regrowth is too expensive for that little damage, and Wild Growth costs too much for just three targets. So instead you just toss a Rejuv on each of them and move on. This is much different than the current model where you would just keep as many players Rejuv'd as possible with WG on cooldown.



I guess we will just have to wait and see just how much mana is an issue and how the bigger health pools etc will interact with all our spells.

#5 Aug 19 2010 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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The instant proc heal on rejuv is pretty sweet right now.
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#6 Aug 19 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Is the instant heal the same strength as normal tick?
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#7 Aug 20 2010 at 1:27 AM Rating: Decent
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From what I've seen, any hot or proc gets the first tick applied on casting the spell, so yes, it's at the same power.
#8 Aug 21 2010 at 10:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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Changes to resto with the last patch:

Quote:
Restoration

* Tranquility now heals every 2 sec, down from 5 sec. (Old tooltip bug?)
* Rebirth now has a 40 yards range, up from 30 yards.
* Revive now has a 40 yards range, up from 30 yards.
* Empowered Rejuvenation (Tier 6) renamed to Swift Rejuvenation (Tier 5) and revamped - Reduces the global cooldown of your Rejuvenation by 0.25/0.5 sec.
* Efflorescence now affects friendly targets within 4 yards, down from 15 yards.
* Wild Growth mana cost reduced to 27% of base mana, down from 55% of base mana.
* Fury of Stormrage moved from Tier 5 to Tier 4. Now also reduces the mana cost of your Wrath spell by 50/100%.
* Gift of the Earthmother moved from Tier 5 to Tier 6. Rejuvenation spell instant heal increased from 3/6% to 5/10%.
* Nature's Bounty now increases critical strike chance on Regrowth by 20/40/60% (Up from 10/20/30%) and now has a 33/66/100% chance to proc. (Up from 20/40/60%)
* Empowered Touch now Increases the healing done by your Healing Touch and Nourish spells by 5/10%, and your Nourish spell has a 50/100% chance to refresh the duration of your Lifebloom on targets.
* Naturalist moved from Tier 2 to Tier 1. Changed to 2-Ranks, down from 3-Ranks. Reduces the cast time of your Healing Touch and Nourish spells by 0.25/0.5 sec. (Up from 0.15/0.35/0.5 sec)
* Natural Shapeshifter is now a 2 ranks talent, down from 3 Ranks.
* Nature's Cure (Tier 5) *New* - Empowers your Remove Corruption spell to also remove a magic effect from a friendly target.
* Heart of the Wild is now a Tier 1 Restoration talent - Increases your maximum mana by 5/10/15%. In addition, while in Bear Form your Stamina is increased by 3/7/10% and while in Cat Form your attack power is increased by 3/7/10%.


Things that jump out at me:

That's a big boost to regrowth crit in Nature's Bounty

Fury of Stormrage reduces the mana cost of wrath by 100%. Wow.

The range reduction on Efflorescence is going to make it a pain to heal all but well-stacked melee with it. I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't enough to reach the melee on the back side of a boss when healing the tank.


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#9 Aug 22 2010 at 3:45 PM Rating: Good
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Did Rejuvenation just lose 15%?

And what's up with Fury of Stormrage still being in the tree? It's useless, really. Even with a free Wrath every now and then, who would want to waste a GCD casting it? The DPS I put out in my current gear (5400 GS) when I apply Rejuvenation and spam Wrath through an entire boss fight is somewhere around 1200 DPS. Imagine a Wrath every 15 seconds or less, what kind of fight would that be useful in?

They should stop trying to make healers viable DPS and focus on making it more fun. People usually go healer because DPS doesn't appeal to them.
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#10 Aug 23 2010 at 7:31 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
They should stop trying to make healers viable DPS and focus on making it more fun. People usually go healer because DPS doesn't appeal to them.
I'm pretty sure it's a pvp talent.
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#11 Aug 23 2010 at 8:22 AM Rating: Good
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
Quote:
They should stop trying to make healers viable DPS and focus on making it more fun. People usually go healer because DPS doesn't appeal to them.
I'm pretty sure it's a pvp talent.


Meh, PvP.

But why does it proc off of Healing Touch then? Did they lower the cast time on HT or remove spell interrupts from PvP?
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#12 Aug 23 2010 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
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yeah, seems stupid, no idea.
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#13 Aug 23 2010 at 10:30 AM Rating: Decent
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The tree needs some synergy between the DPS and healing, tbh. For us priests, we can smite all we want, but it actually gets us mana back and does some mediocre healing. The mana returned is currently so high that a disc priest will want to be Smiting every GCD he doesn't have to cast a heal. Druids need something similar to that. Like giving Wrath a chance for your next Nourish to be instant cast.
#14 Aug 23 2010 at 6:49 PM Rating: Good
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I don't like the idea that a healer has to DPS to get mana and stuff. If I want to DPS, I'll go Boomkin or Kitty. Trees are for healing.
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#15 Aug 24 2010 at 4:22 AM Rating: Decent
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It's a perspective shift, for sure. You're going to using less GCDs to heal, as damage is consistent but not massive in Cata. During those GCDs you can either burn mana on a heal that may not be needed, or you can maybe blast off a free wrath and help the group. Your choice. You don't HAVE to DPS to heal, but it makes the job more fun and challenging.
#16 Aug 24 2010 at 5:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Jay is completely right. Even as a disc priest, you don't have to DPS - I doubt anyone's gonna wipe on an enrage timer and go "DPS is fine from the DPS but the healers really need to kick it up a notch". They're just adding another dimension. Especially with the druid tree as it is, it's really easy to just skip the healer-DPS talents if you don't like them - that's the whole idea of the new specializations, isn't it?

I myself rather like the concept, so will play around with it loads.
#17 Aug 24 2010 at 8:24 AM Rating: Good
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With healing being more planned, less frantic, it could be very nice. It's hard to imagine this with the current style of healing so fresh in our heads.
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#18 Aug 24 2010 at 8:36 AM Rating: Good
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Sir Xsarus wrote:
With healing being more planned, less frantic, it could be very nice. It's hard to imagine this with the current style of healing so fresh in our heads.


This, probably. The memory of me hitting Rejuvenation every GCD with a Wild Growth mixed into it every 7 seconds - repeated ad nauseam - has me doubting the new and improved slack-healing of Cataclysm. Really interested in trying it out. I hate the fast-paced, nerve-wracking healing of this expansion (and the previous, I think), so I'd welcome a more relaxed raid healing style.

Though I fear it will make heroics even more boring than they are now if the gear scales like now.
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#19 Aug 24 2010 at 9:29 AM Rating: Decent
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To be fair Maz, don't underestimate 'less frantic healing'. The fact that you're not using every GCD for heals doesn't mean there's no damage going around. In fact, there's quite a lot. The difference really is in placing and timing your heals in a different spot than you used to - not as in "oh so I'll just stop casting". The closest we've seen is Vanilla healing, where you spent a lot of your time cancelcasting. It's quite hard to explain, but I'd say it's a mix of Vanilla and WOTLK - there's definitely damage going around, but you need to make conscious decisions about when to heal and with what spell. Even if that sounds rather counter-intuative or even impossible.
#20 Aug 24 2010 at 9:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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I might actually see myself grabbing Fury of Stormrage. I'm thinking back to Saurfang fight in-particular, when I would DPS before the first mark. With mana being limited it would take away that option in Cata. I mean who's going to waste mana DPSing if you are worried about it lasting to the end of the fight? It seems like if they do want heals to DPS a little, they almost have to add a talent like this.
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#21 Aug 24 2010 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
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Mozared wrote:
To be fair Maz, don't underestimate 'less frantic healing'. The fact that you're not using every GCD for heals doesn't mean there's no damage going around. In fact, there's quite a lot. The difference really is in placing and timing your heals in a different spot than you used to - not as in "oh so I'll just stop casting". The closest we've seen is Vanilla healing, where you spent a lot of your time cancelcasting. It's quite hard to explain, but I'd say it's a mix of Vanilla and WOTLK - there's definitely damage going around, but you need to make conscious decisions about when to heal and with what spell. Even if that sounds rather counter-intuative or even impossible.


Less time casting is still less time casting.

Hopefully they're not reviving the /cancelcast era. If there's anything more annoying than having to cast an instant cast spell every GCD, it's having to stare at cast bars and health pools for three hours. Will he take damage? Will he take damage? Will he take dam-- CANCELCAST! Oh shi- he took damage!
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#22 Aug 24 2010 at 5:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, that's virtually what I meant by 'a combination of Vanilla and WOTLK'. Cancelcasting, probably not, but careful casting, definitely. It seems to basically be vanilla healing, but the reason you don't cancelcast is because of mana cost on some spells. Sure, you could cancelcast gheal as a priest, but if your normal heal costs 200 mana instead of 1800 it's not worth it.

Vanilla healing without the cancelcasting. I like that definition.
#23 Aug 24 2010 at 6:25 PM Rating: Good
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I spent most of Vanilla killing raiders in Blackrock Mountain. Care to explain what Vanilla healing was like?
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#24 Aug 25 2010 at 12:07 AM Rating: Good
I know that for some of the time, you had shifts of healers so there were one or two at a time not casting so they could regen mana. Once they had a decent amount they'd take up the healing and others would take a break to regen. I do however think that this was more for the top guilds than my guild where as usual it came down to don't stand in the fire :)

It's hard for me to remember as I used to heal MC and ZG in feral spec in healing gear when we were short healers (always). Rank 4 Healing Touch (downranked) could be spammed almost indefinitely back then, so druids were more like Pallys are now. I wasn't good at macros back then so I did a lot of jumping while healing (my esc key is my vent key) to cancel casts if the tanks health was still high. There were a lot of parts of fights where you could back off and wait for the tank to take some significant damage. Then there were some crazy parts where all healers had to spam like mad (Raptor Boss after you kill his Raptor - kind of like the 3rd inhale in Festergut). There was much less raid healing other than healing certain people who got hit by an ability - very little of the damage aura type fights we have now that make Rejuv/Wild Growth spam so OP.

That's from my rather limited perspective - I was doing UBRS when others were doing MC, and I was doing MC & ZG when others were doing BWL & AQ40.....


#25 Aug 25 2010 at 8:16 AM Rating: Decent
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RareBeast's description is pretty close. The only thing I'll add is that you spent most of your time cancelcasting your assigned target, as to not run OOM. Smart targeting was everything (something like 5 greater heals ran you OOM), though you did need to throw down those heals when they were actually needed. Closer to the end of vanilla, when you got meters, healing done was literally never looked at, and it was literally completely about the overhealing meters - the lower your overhealing, the more awesome you were. In similar fashion, nobody EVER bothered with DPS, and I haven't a clue what a suitable DPS number was for a geared-up level 60; damage done was the ****.
#26 Aug 25 2010 at 1:45 PM Rating: Decent
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I remember playing on my roommate's mage, and her DPS was around 300 in ZG.
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