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WoTLK Paladin Seals and Judgements (and new abilities!)Follow

#1 Aug 10 2008 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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296 posts
Took it all directly from the Wrath wiki. Enjoy :)

Edit: Source.

WotLK wiki wrote:
Revised Judgement System
Judgements

Judgement has been replaced with three seperate Judgement spells that places a Debuff on the target regardless of the seal being used. Melee Swings still refresh Judgments Debuffs. There is only one Rank of each judgement and they will scale with the paladin's Attack and Spell Power.

* Judgement of Light: (Available at level 4) Each Melee attack on the target has a chance to restore Health to the Attacker.
* Judgement of Wisdom: (Available at level 12) Each attack or spell on the target has a chance to restore mana to the Attacker.
* Judgement of Justice: (Available at level 28) Unleashes the energy of a Seal spell to judge an enemy for 20 sec, preventing them from fleeing and limiting their movement speed.

Judging a target will no longer consume the seal. Every time you cast a judgement holy damage will be inflicted based off the seal currently being used.
Seals

All Seals will only have one rank and will scale based on the paladin's Spell and Attack power. All seals now last 2 minutes before fading.

* Seal of Righteousness
* Seal of Light
* Seal of Wisdom
* Seal of Justice
* Seal of Command
* Seal of Vengeance(A)/Seal of Corruption(H)
* Seal of Blood(H)/Seal of the Martyr(A)

Seal of Blood/Martyr will scale based on weapon damage. (Indirectly scales from Attack power)

All seals do some base level of damage when Judged.

* This includes Seal of Justice, Seal of Wisdom, Seal of Light, and Seal of Vengeance/Corruption ( even when the target has no stack of Debuffs).
* The same Seals that do damage in live when judged (Seal of Righteousness and Seal of Command) still do more damage than Seal of Justice, Seal of Wisdom, Seal of Light in the beta.

Example Scenarios

Example 1:
The Paladin runs up to mob and starts attacking with melee weapon.
All 3 Judgement spells are greyed out and unable to be cast.
The Paladin cast Seal of Light.
Seal of Light buff is now active on the Paladin & ALL THREE JUDGEMENTS (Light/Wisdom/Justice) are now available to be cast.
The Paladin chooses to cast Judgement of WISDOM - three things happen:
1) Seal of LIGHT stays active on the Paladin.
2) Judgement of WISDOM DEBUFF is put on the mob.
3) Mob takes base Holy damage from Judgement spell.

End result: Paladin has Seal of Light's health-regen-on-attack buff, and the mob has Judgement of Wisdom's mana-regen-on-attack Debuff. (Meaning the Paladin is receiving both health and mana back on attack.)

Example 2:
The Paladin runs up to mob and starts attacking with melee weapon.
All 3 Judgement spells are greyed out and unable to be cast.
The Paladin cast Seal of Vengeance/Corruption.
Seal of Vengeance/Corruption buff is now active on the Paladin & ALL THREE JUDGEMENTS (Light/Wisdom/Justice) are now available to be cast.
STACKING SoV/C DEBUFF is placed on the mob next swing doing holy damage over time.
The Paladin chooses to cast Judgement of WISDOM - three things happen:
1) Seal of Vengeance/Corruption stays active on the Paladin.
2) Judgement of WISDOM DEBUFF is put on the mob IN ADDITION TO THE STACKING SoV/C DEBUFF.
3) Mob takes Holy damage from Judgement spell, which is INCREASED by the Seal having an "on Judgement" damage modifier.

End result: The mob now has Seal of Vengeance/Corruption's stacking Holy DoT AND Judgement of Wisdom's mana-regen-on-attack Debuff. (This is NOT a bug as the Seals and Judgements are now separate spells and have their own Debuffs.)

Note: Seal of Vengeance/Corruption are now 100% proc on swing, not "chance on swing".




Edited, Aug 10th 2008 4:04pm by Agest

Edited, Aug 10th 2008 4:21pm by Agest
#2 Aug 10 2008 at 12:21 PM Rating: Decent
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296 posts
From all this info, I am starting to belive that we have gotten some major buffs in areas we all knew we needed. Now that Avanging wrath will increase healing and not have forberence, it will become an extremely useful tool for endgame raiding. Another tool for raiding will improve our ability to heal forever, our version of Innervate. Prot paladins will also get something they asked for, a single target threat tool. Back when I was ret, I always wished I had AOE damage to create more choas in PvP. Alliance and horde paladins now both get the other's "faction only" seals through Seal of Corruption and Seal of the Martyr.

Overall I like the changes Paladins got and don't see a nerf standing out anywhere. Discuss?

Edit: finished adding links.





Edited, Aug 10th 2008 4:20pm by Agest
#3 Aug 10 2008 at 12:44 PM Rating: Default
I agree with the material posted above. We will have so much more viability in raids with our AoE healing attack (ret). Thanks for the find :)

#4 Aug 10 2008 at 7:53 PM Rating: Decent
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947 posts
Divine Storm does look nice actually... it's an ability that actually has a use in both raids and PvP. The mana cost remains extremely high though, 20% of base mana is just typical knee-jerk 'balancing' by the dev team. A Retadin will never be far from his base mana if he's having to spec Warrior gear for max DPS, so limiting it to only three or four strikes (since you'll be using other abilities too) before you're OOM is taking the concept of 'burst damage' a little too far. Scaled back to 10%, I'll be very happy.

By the way, anyone else think 'Seal of Corruption' for a Paladin is a bit... anti-thematic?
#5 Aug 11 2008 at 12:17 AM Rating: Good
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2,183 posts
Sinstralis wrote:
By the way, anyone else think 'Seal of Corruption' for a Paladin is a bit... anti-thematic?


It's a Blood Elf spell: it fits. Well, less so now that A'dal is accepting Blood Knights, but being Alliance, I still see them as "corrupters" of the Light.
#6 Aug 11 2008 at 1:35 AM Rating: Default
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134 posts
2 months ago called, they want their news back.
#7 Aug 11 2008 at 1:16 PM Rating: Good
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1,609 posts
Hard to think of many *nerfs* at all. We're losing precision which is a little annoying, since i don't get to just fill everything with bold crimson spinels and inscribed pyrestones now.

Edited, Aug 11th 2008 5:14pm by ArtemisEnteri
#8 Aug 12 2008 at 7:59 AM Rating: Good
I think I peed a little.




Ok, I've been thinking deeply and them calling the horde seal 'seal of corruption' is annoying me. Paladins aren't corrupt. Horde nor alliance. Corrupt paladins are death knights. They need to rethink this label.

I know its a small thing, but its those small consistencies that make a watertight game. Maybe they could call it something like Seal of Retribution. If people don't like that since its the name of a talent tree (even though it fits so well), maybe they could return 'Seal of Fury' that was taken out. Fits the Blood Elves very well, and has a similar meaning to vengeance. Seal of the Martyr is appropriately named. Seal of Blood is fine and dandy.

Edited, Aug 12th 2008 10:04am by digitalcraft
#9 Aug 13 2008 at 6:01 AM Rating: Good
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2,183 posts
digitalcraft wrote:
Paladins aren't corrupt. Horde nor alliance. Corrupt paladins are death knights. They need to rethink this label.


I'm sorry, but this is full of fail. Death Knight =/= fallen Paladin, corrupt Paladin, emo Paladin, or any other kind of Paladin you can think of. That's just NOT what Warcraft Death Knights are, period. The closets this is to true is the fact that Arthas was a Paladin, but at no time has that been a requirement to become a Death Knight. Since we are nitpicking, I had to point this out (as has been pointed out numerous times in the DK forum).

And you're right, Paladins aren't corrupt, but what the Blood Elves did to one of the Naaru and The Light could be called "a corruption". Granted they are accepted by A'dal now, but it didn't start out that way. So yes, I'm sorry, but the name does fit for Blood Knights.

Another thing is I don't believe the Seal is talking about the Paladin using it necessarily, but more what the Seal does (makes sense, no?). If you think of it that way, the Seal corrupts the target making them take periodic damage, it makes more sense then thinking of it as a corrupt Paladin using it.

Edited, Aug 13th 2008 7:07am by Maulgak
#10 Aug 14 2008 at 10:22 AM Rating: Decent
Your logic is mistaken: Corrupt paladin = death knight. Corrupt other things also = death knight. You for some reason assumed a 1 to 1 ratio where none was stated.

Paladins use the light and are not corrupt. They should not have a seal of corruption. Pretty simple.
#11 Aug 14 2008 at 2:33 PM Rating: Decent
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728 posts
I'm very worried that holydins are going to ***** ret yet again and get judgements of the wise nerfed or moved to their tree.
#12 Aug 14 2008 at 3:09 PM Rating: Good
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2,183 posts
I concede that I misread your post to mean you HAD to be a corrupt Paladin to be a Death Knight, which I read it again and that's not the case. The rest of my point I still stand by: Blood Elves corrupted The Light in a way by imprisoning a Naaru and forcing The Light to serve them. This is not the way that The Light works and therefor is a corruption of its ways.

If Alliance used Seal of Corruption, that would be totally different, but they don't.
#13 Aug 14 2008 at 8:26 PM Rating: Decent
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947 posts
Even so... 'Corruption' is something you associate with Shadow or Nature, it isnt something Holy ought to be capable of. Holy on both sides is associated with divine healing or righteous judgement (Smite thee! etc), 'corrupting' things still seems a bit...naff.

Also bear in mind that, as has been noted, BE Paladins have turned over a new leaf and get their power directly from A'dal and the Sha'tar, rather than siphoning it out of M'uru. The Alliance and Horde are therefore equal in their application of the Light by the time of WotLK.

I dunno... it's just a game and it doesnt really matter, it just doesnt seem right.

And for the last time, Death Knights are not fallen Paladins.
#14 Aug 14 2008 at 11:49 PM Rating: Good
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2,183 posts
Sinstralis wrote:
And for the last time, Death Knights are not fallen Paladins.


Sadly I doubt it'll be the last time, but ty for the reinforcement :)
#15 Aug 15 2008 at 7:43 AM Rating: Good
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308 posts
Looks like they are taking some steps to "clean up" the class. I like the new protection talents. They will be very handy.

I like building in some specific "seals" into the 3 judgements. Increased seal durations are very nice as well.

The "hand of" spells I'm a little undecided on still. Sure they won't overwrite existing blessings on the character, but they only last about 10 seconds. I think Salvation is what I am going to miss the most.

Hopefully, paladin threat generation will be increased enough that we can make up for the loss of Salv.
#16 Aug 15 2008 at 11:23 PM Rating: Decent
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3,909 posts
Maulgak wrote:
I'm sorry, but this is full of fail. Death Knight =/= fallen Paladin, corrupt Paladin, emo Paladin, or any other kind of Paladin you can think of. That's just NOT what Warcraft Death Knights are, period. The closets this is to true is the fact that Arthas was a Paladin, but at no time has that been a requirement to become a Death Knight. Since we are nitpicking, I had to point this out (as has been pointed out numerous times in the DK forum)


Well. The first-generation death knights were made from the corpses of human knights imbued with warlock souls, and the second generation, the Scourge generation, are largely composed of fallen paladins. Arthas was the first, but he took a whole lot of others with him. I don't see how you can ignore the correlation when Death Knights and Paladins are clear contrasts of each other, right down to Death Coil and Holy Light in WC3. One damaged living units and healed undead, and the other healed living units and damaged undead. Isn't it incredibly obvious what kind of theme they were plugging?

Anyway. I always liked the idea of the Blood Knights being morally ambiguous, since it portrayed Horde paladins convincingly. They're not devout paladins who pray and believe in virtues and morality. They're very pragmatic soldiers who were desperate to protect what was left of their race, and turned to their last remaining source of real power to do so. So "Seal of Corruption" doesn't bug me, because it's Hordeside. The Horde is meant to seem evil. They have a faction of undead cannibals in their ranks, I mean, seriously.
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