How can u be better at mutilate?Follow

Well, I'll tell you the first thing that's wrong with your friend, he didn't bother to read what mutilate does. You should be using slow daggers in both hands for mutilate, and I can only guess that he doesn't bother to use poisons either. Otherwise, he needs some serious help.

As for everything else you said, no idea, sorry.

To the above poster:

Be nice.

or, if you aren't kidding....

....

You know what? Nevermind. Yes, Hemo daggarz pwnzzors all other classes.

One less rogue I have to worry about I suppose....

Edited, May 1st 2007 12:22am by TheTwitchy

I smell a freudian slip.

Holy crap, 65 damage top end at level 66? What the hell are you using, Julie's Dagger? Throw that trash away and get something decent. If you're using something faster than 1.7 in your main hand, you've got a problem.

dont get julies dagger, get a nice stat green. or a certain beer shanker.

You can go two ways with mutilate, depending on what you use more - Evis/SS or Envenom/Shiv.

With both, you'll want to have a slow main hand - 1.8 is the normalized speed for daggers IIRC...

Now with the offhand you can either go with another 1.8 or with a 1.3 or 1.4.
The 1.8 will give you bigger mutilate offhand hits.

The 1.3/1.4 will be a couple hundred dmg less than the 1.8, BUT you can use shiv for the same cost (sometimes less than) a talented SS - which 100% proc's a poison....
Great for an extra CP/poison proc for your 5point/5poison envenom (which will make up for the couple hundred lost on the offhand mutilate strike imo.)


Either way you go is viable, it just depends on your playstyle.
There won't be more than 3-4% difference either way it's used, I just prefer the 1.3/1.4 speed offhand because the itemization provides many different options to getting a great offhand.
Where as, if you're trying for 2 hard hitters, you very well may be using 2 of the same weapon for a long while.

You're correct here Nooble, I'm just not sure how much energy SS costs both talented and untalented. (I honestly haven't used it in over 3 months now. lol)
I even tried a combat build with 5/5 combat potency & 33 energy shiv... it was LOTS of fun, not much dmg even with instant poison, but lots of fun.

As for the normalization, I'm still not entirely sure - you could be right here too, I can't find anything on wowwiki.
I take a week off and I feel like such a noob. lol

Edited, May 1st 2007 9:45pm by jklotros

In general, most people suggest to have two hard hitting weapons, but having a hard hitting main hand is much more important than your OH choice. By hard hitting, I mean a weapon that has a high average damage range. Generally these weapons are slow (1.7+ s daggers). If you're going for a sub based mute build (IE: with 5/5 opportunity), as you should be for leveing, it's a bit more important that your OH be hard hitting too (basically you want to be using 2 daggers that could be used as main hands). If you end up going for a combat based mutilate build at 70 for whatever reason, your OH choice is less important as far as speed is concerned. Your OH attacks will be boosted by 50% (so 75% total wep damage), and the mutilate bonus damage will be increased by 50% for your OH (so 101 is increased to 151 - or 152... not sure on the rounding). Additionally, a faster OH will proc poisons more often, and this can really add up in raid situations where you have a lot of hit and SnD up all the time (but is less important in PvP where you'd favor a slow/hard hitting OH for burst damage with either build).

All in all, it really comes down to prefrence. Some people like the cheaper shiv cost associated with faster OHs. I haven't found much reason to use shiv besides as an instant snare in PvP. Using shiv with a fast dagger, espeically if you don't have DW spec, is a very poor way to generate CP and damage unless you're doing it in a pinch (say KS is dodge/blocked/whatever). However, in general, you're better off just using SS with your main hand. It is generally more effective with a fast OH sword/fist/mace (it's a normalized attack 1.7 for daggers 2.4 for other 1h) and with a build using combat potency. I used to use it a lot when farming with combat daggers (would swap in latro's shifting sword in my OH). However, shiv scales very poorly with gear/buffs, and it's not an ideal choice unless you really need to proc that poison.

In either case, I would suggest leveling with a sub based mute build. Having opportunity early is better than working towards DW spec in the combat tree. 41/20 builds are pretty much reserved for those who are already level 70. Try to keep atleast a decent main hand and then put it in your OH as you upgrade. I actually leveled 60-70 using my 2 lvl60 GM daggers... and it worked just fine.