k i am pretty new to druids and have not done much research. I am wanting to make a feral druid for pvping. I will probably use cat form the most from what i see in pvp battles i do with my current toons. what should i be looking for in stats? something like agi>str>stm? also i am throwing my build up there. I dont know how useful all the talents are but give me some opinions on what you have see and experiened. any help would be great. [/link]http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/druid/talents.html?00000000000000000000050023213232210533123105503301000000000000
Edited, Apr 26th 2007 1:32am by kornpop
Edited, Apr 26th 2007 1:33am by kornpop
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I have a cat-feral specc'd druid and at lvl52 I've had no problems with it. From a stats perspective I would always look for +Str 1st then +Agi 2nd with +Sta as a close 3rd. there are hundreds of threads in the forums that'll tell you reasons why (Str = 2 AP, Agi = Crit+dodge etc etc).
I mentioned above that I'm cat-feral specc'd meaning that I'm not best specc'd out for Bear yet this was for a reason. I prefer using cat and want to get the best out of it. I only use Bear when I'm in a jam and need a bit of extra armor so I can recover health/mana etc.
so on this basis I would recommend the following changes to your talent build (assuming you will go cat majority of the time as you suggest):
Remove feral charge, not needed unless you plan to use bear as an opener and cats prowl - pounce - shred etc is far better. Place this 1pt into Predatory Instincts, higher crit rate the better for kitty.
Getting fear avoidance from Primal Tenacity is a nice to have but 3 points, bit of a waste IMO. Take 1pt out here and place into Predatory Instincts.
As kitty you may find yourself popping out of form to do a quick heal in the middle of a fight. To be honest I think 3pts in Natural Shapreshifter might be excessive so you might want to think about transferring some of these points into Nuturing Instinct - Helps towards survivability.
This is just my opinion, I'm not fully specc'd yet this is where I intend to go with my build as I believe it'll work for me and how I play.
I mentioned above that I'm cat-feral specc'd meaning that I'm not best specc'd out for Bear yet this was for a reason. I prefer using cat and want to get the best out of it. I only use Bear when I'm in a jam and need a bit of extra armor so I can recover health/mana etc.
so on this basis I would recommend the following changes to your talent build (assuming you will go cat majority of the time as you suggest):
Remove feral charge, not needed unless you plan to use bear as an opener and cats prowl - pounce - shred etc is far better. Place this 1pt into Predatory Instincts, higher crit rate the better for kitty.
Getting fear avoidance from Primal Tenacity is a nice to have but 3 points, bit of a waste IMO. Take 1pt out here and place into Predatory Instincts.
As kitty you may find yourself popping out of form to do a quick heal in the middle of a fight. To be honest I think 3pts in Natural Shapreshifter might be excessive so you might want to think about transferring some of these points into Nuturing Instinct - Helps towards survivability.
This is just my opinion, I'm not fully specc'd yet this is where I intend to go with my build as I believe it'll work for me and how I play.
M'kay, a few things I disagree with.
While a Feral Druid may prefer one form over the other, it's the basis of a Druid to shift and use his whole ******* of tools in combat. Feral Charge is AWESOME in many situations and skipping it for a single point would be madness. Especially for a point in PI. (More on that below)
I agree about PT not being too good. Nice to take if you have spare points but otherwise you can spend them elsewhere. However, like my previous point, PI isn't necessarily the best point to spend it.
About Natural Shapeshifter: If you do stay in Cat all the way it's pretty much a waste unless you use it to exploit the Shift->Furor particularity of Druids. However, if you plan on running the flag it'll be very useful so a few points will help.
Now, about Predatory Instinct. This is something I keep forgetting and I'm really bugged about this.
Wowhead talent calculator says: "Increases your critical strike damage bonus with melee attacks by X% and [...] "
WoW official site talent says: "Increases your damage from melee critical strikes by X%"
At first it may not seem important, but the wording is VERY important. If the definition of WoWHead is accurate, then the talent is worthless. If the definition of the WoW official site is accurate, then the talent is passable. (Not a huge fan of it in either case)
Maths: Melee crit = damage x 2.0 whereas Spell crit = damage x 1.5
The "damage bonus" on a critical strike is not the end result, it's only the increase in damage. That means for a melee critical hit, there will be 100% base damage and 100% bonus damage. (For a total of 200%)
A talent that would increase this latter 100% by 10% would mean a melee crit hit would deal 1050 damage instead of 1000. (Assuming normal damage is 500) Does that suck? Yes. For 5 points, Hell yes.
Now, if the damage boost is applied to the end crit damage, the same crit would do 1100 instead of 1000. (500 base damage, 500 bonus damage. Total 1000 damage. 10% increase for 1100) Does that suck? Kinda. It's good, but not great, not for 5 points. And that's why they also gave this talent the "dodge AoE" property which compensates for the average damage increase.
With all that said, I just feel the need to correct your wording about one thing, ssgrif, when you said
Pred Instinct does not raise crit rate. It raises crit damage. Hell, if it gave +10% crit rate Druids would become shredding machines of Doom.
Quote:
Remove feral charge, not needed unless you plan to use bear as an opener and cats prowl - pounce - shred etc is far better. Place this 1pt into Predatory Instincts, higher crit rate the better for kitty.
While a Feral Druid may prefer one form over the other, it's the basis of a Druid to shift and use his whole ******* of tools in combat. Feral Charge is AWESOME in many situations and skipping it for a single point would be madness. Especially for a point in PI. (More on that below)
Quote:
Getting fear avoidance from Primal Tenacity is a nice to have but 3 points, bit of a waste IMO. Take 1pt out here and place into Predatory Instincts.
I agree about PT not being too good. Nice to take if you have spare points but otherwise you can spend them elsewhere. However, like my previous point, PI isn't necessarily the best point to spend it.
About Natural Shapeshifter: If you do stay in Cat all the way it's pretty much a waste unless you use it to exploit the Shift->Furor particularity of Druids. However, if you plan on running the flag it'll be very useful so a few points will help.
Now, about Predatory Instinct. This is something I keep forgetting and I'm really bugged about this.
Wowhead talent calculator says: "Increases your critical strike damage bonus with melee attacks by X% and [...] "
WoW official site talent says: "Increases your damage from melee critical strikes by X%"
At first it may not seem important, but the wording is VERY important. If the definition of WoWHead is accurate, then the talent is worthless. If the definition of the WoW official site is accurate, then the talent is passable. (Not a huge fan of it in either case)
Maths: Melee crit = damage x 2.0 whereas Spell crit = damage x 1.5
The "damage bonus" on a critical strike is not the end result, it's only the increase in damage. That means for a melee critical hit, there will be 100% base damage and 100% bonus damage. (For a total of 200%)
A talent that would increase this latter 100% by 10% would mean a melee crit hit would deal 1050 damage instead of 1000. (Assuming normal damage is 500) Does that suck? Yes. For 5 points, Hell yes.
Now, if the damage boost is applied to the end crit damage, the same crit would do 1100 instead of 1000. (500 base damage, 500 bonus damage. Total 1000 damage. 10% increase for 1100) Does that suck? Kinda. It's good, but not great, not for 5 points. And that's why they also gave this talent the "dodge AoE" property which compensates for the average damage increase.
With all that said, I just feel the need to correct your wording about one thing, ssgrif, when you said
Quote:
Place this 1pt into Predatory Instincts, higher crit rate the better for kitty.
Pred Instinct does not raise crit rate. It raises crit damage. Hell, if it gave +10% crit rate Druids would become shredding machines of Doom.
The value of Predatory Instincts in a PvP build is not the damage bonus but the chance to avoid AoE attacks. Helps a lot when you have a trigger happy Mage running kamikaze into your group.
I'd say you're fine on the feral side, but my recommendation would be to max out Nature's Focus. You'll be shocked how long it can take to cast a HT or even Regrowth in a group battle. Doesn't really matter where you take the points from, more crit damage, lower mana costs for shifting, better chance to dodge aoe, none of that matters when you're dead.
I'd say you're fine on the feral side, but my recommendation would be to max out Nature's Focus. You'll be shocked how long it can take to cast a HT or even Regrowth in a group battle. Doesn't really matter where you take the points from, more crit damage, lower mana costs for shifting, better chance to dodge aoe, none of that matters when you're dead.
Oh yeah, I kinda lost focus and forgot it was for PvP. My bad. X_x
Very good recommendation for Nature's Focus then. And if I may suggest, I'd take out 3/3 Intensity and 2/3 Nat. Shapeshifter to get NF, but that's up to you.
Very good recommendation for Nature's Focus then. And if I may suggest, I'd take out 3/3 Intensity and 2/3 Nat. Shapeshifter to get NF, but that's up to you.
Scholar
33 posts
ok guys, thanks for all the tips. I have one more question then i think i will be ready to go with my druid. Is thick hide worth the three points? It seems useful to me but i am not sure how much survivability it adds. If it isnt worth the 3 points then where would you put those points?
Well, in end-game you'll want every last bit of armor you can get because we can't get immune to crushing blow, blah blah blah, so you'll want 3/3 Thick Hide and 3/3 Survival of the Fittest. Otherwise, in regular solo leveling, and even for tanking the standard instances, you don't need either of those. I prefer Feral Instinct to sneak up on mobs and people and the added threat will help you tank quite well, even in PUGs.
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