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druid tanks?!?!? at 70?!?!Follow
6 posts
ok so what do yall think is a feral druid a better tank than a prot warrior at lvl 70 if all gear is equil? me and a friend are having an argument about it what do u think?
Player > class/spec
This is a universal law.
Both are viable tanks, some better in some situations that the other. Why does a pissing contest need to exist?
Which is the better tank? The one that isn't afk without telling anyone, or the one that didn't fall asleep at the keyboard :p Hows that :P
This is a universal law.
Both are viable tanks, some better in some situations that the other. Why does a pissing contest need to exist?
Which is the better tank? The one that isn't afk without telling anyone, or the one that didn't fall asleep at the keyboard :p Hows that :P
My Non-Supportable, Not backed up by anything other than a Tanks Gut Instinct (The one that can smell a crazy-**** DPSer threatening a wipe with mass nukage)
opinion leads me to beleive that a Feral Druid in Bear form is more forgiving of Crazy-**** nukage on multiple mobs than a Prot Warrior in Defense stance. A Prot Spec Warrior can hold the aggro better given a 5 second head start on a boss, than a Feral Druid can, but not in Multi mob fights. In a boss fight the Warrior can hold that aggro in the face of focussed fire than the druid can. The two together do make a rocksolid combination however.
My Reasoning: (I do not have a Druid Tank, but I have played with a few)
Feral Druid Aggro looks to be based on Threat derived from Damage. The Druid is attacking multiple mobs, and holding them that way.
Prot Warriors generate their aggro based on their abilities (Cos their damage sucks). 5 Initial sunders, Shield Bashs, Revenge, and topped up with Devastate spamming will hold against focussed fire.
The situations I am describing are based on a lvl 61 Prot Warrior (me) working with a lvl 70 Feral Druid, in a 17 man raid on Zul'Gurub. On trash, and bosses without a start, the Druid gets the aggro and hold it. Eventually constant DPS splits the pack. Warrior has to Taunt to gain aggro, and quickly loses it due to an in ability to get enough rage and time to spam the sunders, revenges, shieldbashes and devastates.
In other situations, such as after the mobs split it was easy to gain aggro on the single target, and with DPS going elsewhere (ie on the mobs running towards them), once the hold was made, it didn't come off.
This is despite a 9 level difference.
So I guess my point is:
In less than optimal situations, ie learning instances, with an average pick up group the druid is better. When you absolutely, positively need the mob focussed on the tank a prot warrior is better.
That's my take on the Feral Druid v Prot Warrior Debate. Discuss.
opinion leads me to beleive that a Feral Druid in Bear form is more forgiving of Crazy-**** nukage on multiple mobs than a Prot Warrior in Defense stance. A Prot Spec Warrior can hold the aggro better given a 5 second head start on a boss, than a Feral Druid can, but not in Multi mob fights. In a boss fight the Warrior can hold that aggro in the face of focussed fire than the druid can. The two together do make a rocksolid combination however.
My Reasoning: (I do not have a Druid Tank, but I have played with a few)
Feral Druid Aggro looks to be based on Threat derived from Damage. The Druid is attacking multiple mobs, and holding them that way.
Prot Warriors generate their aggro based on their abilities (Cos their damage sucks). 5 Initial sunders, Shield Bashs, Revenge, and topped up with Devastate spamming will hold against focussed fire.
The situations I am describing are based on a lvl 61 Prot Warrior (me) working with a lvl 70 Feral Druid, in a 17 man raid on Zul'Gurub. On trash, and bosses without a start, the Druid gets the aggro and hold it. Eventually constant DPS splits the pack. Warrior has to Taunt to gain aggro, and quickly loses it due to an in ability to get enough rage and time to spam the sunders, revenges, shieldbashes and devastates.
In other situations, such as after the mobs split it was easy to gain aggro on the single target, and with DPS going elsewhere (ie on the mobs running towards them), once the hold was made, it didn't come off.
This is despite a 9 level difference.
So I guess my point is:
In less than optimal situations, ie learning instances, with an average pick up group the druid is better. When you absolutely, positively need the mob focussed on the tank a prot warrior is better.
That's my take on the Feral Druid v Prot Warrior Debate. Discuss.
You are comparing your ability as a lvl 61 against a lvl 70? Thats a bit weighted not in your favor.
With the addition to Thunder Clap in Defensive Stance, Warriors make much more potent multi-mob tanks. I believe as far as total threat generated goes, Thunder Clap will produce just a tad bit less then Swipe for a Druid, however...the 10-20% attack speed debuff makes it superior imo. Add in our shield which on multi mob pulls (which tend to have mobs that hit for less damage then the hard hitting single pulls) put us on par, if not superior to Druids. Remember, the less damage being done per hit the more Shield Block > Armor.
edit: Forgot to put my big point on this. Both Warriors and Druids make very viable tanks. Each one has their pluses and minuses and overall, I would say that they are equally matched and really only skill makes the difference.
Edited, Apr 24th 2007 4:54am by DakkenBB
With the addition to Thunder Clap in Defensive Stance, Warriors make much more potent multi-mob tanks. I believe as far as total threat generated goes, Thunder Clap will produce just a tad bit less then Swipe for a Druid, however...the 10-20% attack speed debuff makes it superior imo. Add in our shield which on multi mob pulls (which tend to have mobs that hit for less damage then the hard hitting single pulls) put us on par, if not superior to Druids. Remember, the less damage being done per hit the more Shield Block > Armor.
edit: Forgot to put my big point on this. Both Warriors and Druids make very viable tanks. Each one has their pluses and minuses and overall, I would say that they are equally matched and really only skill makes the difference.
Edited, Apr 24th 2007 4:54am by DakkenBB
Just to clear up my point (the big post above).
As I lvl61 Warrior playing with a lvl70 Druid, IMHO the lvl 61 Warrior despite the level difference was just as good as the lvl 70 Druid in most situation, and BETTER in a few.
I forget to mention Thuderclap in my usual "Holding Aggro" sequence. Blame the Tank
.
Once I get up to 70, I have no doubt that I will be better in MOST situations, especially in Guild Runs.
As a caveat, I will still expect to get "Tanking Advice" from Crazy-**** DPSers in the majority of PUG's that I run.
Usual Tanking Advice = "Use a shield" in place of that funny circular Axe with a Shield Spike that I always use; "Use Thunderclap" when the mobs to the left and right are Sapped and / or Stunned ; "Help!!!" when the player is running away from me with 7 mobs in hot pursuit. "ogogogogogo" when an AoE pull is performed 1 second before I charge, bringing everything into my Charge Dead Zone. You've all seen it before.
As I lvl61 Warrior playing with a lvl70 Druid, IMHO the lvl 61 Warrior despite the level difference was just as good as the lvl 70 Druid in most situation, and BETTER in a few.
I forget to mention Thuderclap in my usual "Holding Aggro" sequence. Blame the Tank
. Once I get up to 70, I have no doubt that I will be better in MOST situations, especially in Guild Runs.
As a caveat, I will still expect to get "Tanking Advice" from Crazy-**** DPSers in the majority of PUG's that I run.
Usual Tanking Advice = "Use a shield" in place of that funny circular Axe with a Shield Spike that I always use; "Use Thunderclap" when the mobs to the left and right are Sapped and / or Stunned ; "Help!!!" when the player is running away from me with 7 mobs in hot pursuit. "ogogogogogo" when an AoE pull is performed 1 second before I charge, bringing everything into my Charge Dead Zone. You've all seen it before.
badrat wrote:
Just to clear up my point (the big post above).
As I lvl61 Warrior playing with a lvl70 Druid, IMHO the lvl 61 Warrior despite the level difference was just as good as the lvl 70 Druid in most situation, and BETTER in a few.
As I lvl61 Warrior playing with a lvl70 Druid, IMHO the lvl 61 Warrior despite the level difference was just as good as the lvl 70 Druid in most situation, and BETTER in a few.
ehhhhhhh...... that was in zg, an instance balanced around old world level 60 stats.
If a Druid and a prot Warrior had the exact same gear (both leather) then the druid would be better because of Dire Bear form.
Quote:
ehhhhhhh...... that was in zg, an instance balanced around old world level 60 stats.
I don't understand what you're trying to say. Isn't holding Aggro with a bunch of level 70's DPSing away the same in both Azeroth and Outland Instances? An untauntable boss is still an Untauntable boss.
Only having been as far as the Blood Furnace I'm interested to know what it is that I don't know. (Tanking-wise that is... I don't *really* want to know more about, say..... Irrigation methods in Outer Mongolia
)Quote:
If a Druid and a prot Warrior had the exact same gear (both leather) then the druid would be better because of Dire Bear form.
Oh God, if a Druid could wear plate armor, Dire Bear FTW O.o
I do ok tanking at 33, me and a shammy were grouped up in STV last night. Demo shout and swipe kept the mobs attention.... I just wish there were a few more aggro grabbing abilities (our 10 min cooldown is nice... but 10 mins).
better tank does really come down to the player and situation, and gear (but if u got amazing gear and dont know a damn thing about tanking a crapload of good its gonna do ya).
basically IMO Good prot warrior>good feral druid
Feral druids get large armor/hp numbers but only have 1 way of dodging crushing blows and general melee hits in general and thats dodge. Warriors on the other hand wont get as much armor but get the shield and def stance, along with parry and dodge.
but i would take a good protection warrior over a good feral tank because if the players are equally skilled, id take the parent class over the hybrid(unless all the dps is melee oriented then id take mr.feral). with the way more and more warriors are being played today ive actually lean more towards feral druids cuz alot of the warriors i meet/heal end up being retarded and well a bears a bear lol. but druids can heal so thats not fair ~~
and situations come into effect alot too. its so much easier to keep agro on multiple mobs as a feral tank then a prot warrior but it still can be done. just learn to use all of ur skills and u can do it too.
basically IMO Good prot warrior>good feral druid
Feral druids get large armor/hp numbers but only have 1 way of dodging crushing blows and general melee hits in general and thats dodge. Warriors on the other hand wont get as much armor but get the shield and def stance, along with parry and dodge.
but i would take a good protection warrior over a good feral tank because if the players are equally skilled, id take the parent class over the hybrid(unless all the dps is melee oriented then id take mr.feral). with the way more and more warriors are being played today ive actually lean more towards feral druids cuz alot of the warriors i meet/heal end up being retarded and well a bears a bear lol. but druids can heal so thats not fair ~~
and situations come into effect alot too. its so much easier to keep agro on multiple mobs as a feral tank then a prot warrior but it still can be done. just learn to use all of ur skills and u can do it too.
Reposted from the same topic started over on the druid forum. Please forgive the druid focus in examples and such, the intent is to show general equality.
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The problem is that all things are NEVER equal. You cannot have a druid and warrior with the same stats, because druids and warriors go for different stats.
Warriors are better at spell damage, warriors avoid more damage, but when they get hit they get hit for more. They also have a better panic button, but can only use it once in a fight.
Druids get hit more, but are reaching obscene levels of dodge mirroring warriors' total mitigation (Fighting the Prince in Kara I had almost 40% dodge buffed today). When we get hit it does less damage, but we have no way to avoid crushing blows (again comparison, I was getting CBlows for 5500 on the top end. A warrior in 55% reduction would be hit for 4600 by that. If it wasn't a crushing blow it would hit me for 3700.) Our panic button is worse, but can be burned every 3 minutes for 2500 life.
If you are in a melee-heavy fight where 2-3 crushing blows in a row won't kill you you may be better off with a druid, especially if it's a long fight for multiple regens. A magic damage fight, or one with an enrage or something begging for a shield wall, a warrior's clearly got advantages. Overall you're best off with the guy with better gear who knows what he's doing.
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The problem is that all things are NEVER equal. You cannot have a druid and warrior with the same stats, because druids and warriors go for different stats.
Warriors are better at spell damage, warriors avoid more damage, but when they get hit they get hit for more. They also have a better panic button, but can only use it once in a fight.
Druids get hit more, but are reaching obscene levels of dodge mirroring warriors' total mitigation (Fighting the Prince in Kara I had almost 40% dodge buffed today). When we get hit it does less damage, but we have no way to avoid crushing blows (again comparison, I was getting CBlows for 5500 on the top end. A warrior in 55% reduction would be hit for 4600 by that. If it wasn't a crushing blow it would hit me for 3700.) Our panic button is worse, but can be burned every 3 minutes for 2500 life.
If you are in a melee-heavy fight where 2-3 crushing blows in a row won't kill you you may be better off with a druid, especially if it's a long fight for multiple regens. A magic damage fight, or one with an enrage or something begging for a shield wall, a warrior's clearly got advantages. Overall you're best off with the guy with better gear who knows what he's doing.
23 posts
Ahh.. gets me thinking of the good old days when tanking was real tanking in UBRS :D
Well as i was MTing with my prot warr the OTing druid was complaining "I'm a tank you know!!"
Was somewhat bothered about that drid then because he was trying to MT everything. But when i think about it i guess he was more bothered as he didnt get anything to do..
Well thats rage bars for us i guess..
Well as i was MTing with my prot warr the OTing druid was complaining "I'm a tank you know!!"
Was somewhat bothered about that drid then because he was trying to MT everything. But when i think about it i guess he was more bothered as he didnt get anything to do..
Well thats rage bars for us i guess..
Quote:
as he didnt get anything to do..
Well thats rage bars for us i guess..
Well thats rage bars for us i guess..
Why did the Druid not just change to cat form and rip stuff up that way? If you were tanking w/o problems, instead of rage competing, I'd just change into a DD.
23 posts
As i see your highest is a 50 hunter i guess you havent played UBRS when limit lv was 60, no offence..
But the way we usually did it was with two tanks, mostly just for general drakki though.
The druid heard he was supposed to tank, and that was what he tried to, but insted of taking the role as OT he tried MTing everything i went for, that is why he began complaining about not getting anything to do.
I guess he was very inexperienced, but anyway i outtanked him.
UBRS was very much a trouble area because tanks competed for agro all the time. Now i havent been there since TBC so i dont know much how it is now.
But the way we usually did it was with two tanks, mostly just for general drakki though.
The druid heard he was supposed to tank, and that was what he tried to, but insted of taking the role as OT he tried MTing everything i went for, that is why he began complaining about not getting anything to do.
I guess he was very inexperienced, but anyway i outtanked him.
UBRS was very much a trouble area because tanks competed for agro all the time. Now i havent been there since TBC so i dont know much how it is now.
Nope I've never heard of it lol. Heck I don't even know what UBRS is. Must be many many many mob link pulls? where back up tanks etc are needed?
My warrior highest is only 19 or 20 now. I like tanking, I tend to pull the tank role with my Druid (lv33), man I can't wait for Dire form =D
My warrior highest is only 19 or 20 now. I like tanking, I tend to pull the tank role with my Druid (lv33), man I can't wait for Dire form =D
23 posts
i like hearing someone who apresiates the tanking role, keep it up :D
UBRS is upper blackrock spire
good luck with the tanking
UBRS is upper blackrock spire
good luck with the tanking
ubrs is 5-6 mob pulls with additionals here and there. that's the main reason for the ot. it can also be handled easily with correctly applied cc though. however with a 10 man group (pre bc) it generally wasn't a problem with cc. additonally the main bosses (except the giant dog) were generally 2-3 man teams. Rend has the dragon mount while the giant drake has 2 guards. most time, you send someone to kite the giant drake while everyone else pounds away on the guards if not you can also offtank the giant drake in a corner while the others are pounding away on his guards. (just remember to have max fire resist + armor)
For rend, one of the off tanks usially picks up the dragon mount and both of them get pounded away on together. if not it's offtank picks up rend and eveyone kills the dragon if it's a good group.
For rend, one of the off tanks usially picks up the dragon mount and both of them get pounded away on together. if not it's offtank picks up rend and eveyone kills the dragon if it's a good group.
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