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talent builds for a 19 twink Follow
hey recently made a hunter that I'm gonna twink. I know the gear needed and all but when it comes to where to put the 10 talent points I'm a little lost. I was hoping that someone could post a few suggestions as to whitch way to go. As i stated this character will be doing nothing but BG's and was only created to have fun with.
Please browse through the last three or four pages. I am sure the word Twink should leap out at ya more than once. I can think of at least one exceptionally comprehensive thread regarding Twink information.
Or you could just drop the Twink idea and PvP normally. You know... some people actually find a hint of challenge fun.
Or you could just drop the Twink idea and PvP normally. You know... some people actually find a hint of challenge fun.
10 posts
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/hunter/talents.html?0000000000000000000005500000000000000000000000000000000000000000
Really simple, I prefer this to one with hawk eye.
Really simple, I prefer this to one with hawk eye.
NorthAI the Hand wrote:
Please browse through the last three or four pages. I am sure the word Twink should leap out at ya more than once. I can think of at least one exceptionally comprehensive thread regarding Twink information.
Or you could just drop the Twink idea and PvP normally. You know... some people actually find a hint of challenge fun.
Or you could just drop the Twink idea and PvP normally. You know... some people actually find a hint of challenge fun.
I've been lurking the forums for a while, and while I normally enjoy and agree with your posts, every time pvp comes up you post negatively on twinking. What's up? I'd like to see the reasoning behind your views, including a definition of what exactly you consider a 'twink' to be.
Secondly, have you ever rolled a twink yourself? There are certainly no lack of challenges in the lower brackets, especially considering the quality of horde vs. alliance pugs (random, non-premade pvp teams) in my battlegroup (nightfall).
Lastly, what do you think of the gear-matching system we've been hearing rumors about. That would let the lowbies play with noobs, the twinks play other twinks, and make que times longer for everybody.
Please remember to include the logic here that I've so admired in other, non-pvp-related posts.
I agree with North on the whole twink idea. And yes, I have played one before. They're just people wanting to enlarge their e-***** by beating people actually trying to get the stuff, or trying to enjoy themselves while they level.
And what do I define as a twink? Let's take a small quote from Dictionary.com!
Or how about Wikipedia?
And some synonyms from Wikitonary:
Catch my drift yet?
Seriously, making a character at level 19 that you spend 50g on shows no skill at all, and might as well prove what little skill you have because you have to go into a bracket where people generally do not have equipment on even HALF the level of yours, and still try to brag about winning.
Twinks have no respect from me, and people who have them lose points in my book.
And what do I define as a twink? Let's take a small quote from Dictionary.com!
Quote:
...derive from gay slang for a cute young thing with nothing upstairs.
Or how about Wikipedia?
Quote:
Twink (gay slang), a young or young-looking male homosexual
And some synonyms from Wikitonary:
Quote:
(weak or effeminate man): poof (British), *** (especially US), ****** (especially US)
Catch my drift yet?
Seriously, making a character at level 19 that you spend 50g on shows no skill at all, and might as well prove what little skill you have because you have to go into a bracket where people generally do not have equipment on even HALF the level of yours, and still try to brag about winning.
Twinks have no respect from me, and people who have them lose points in my book.
MrEnglish wrote:
I agree with North on the whole twink idea. And yes, I have played one before. They're just people wanting to enlarge their e-***** by beating people actually trying to get the stuff, or trying to enjoy themselves while they level.
And what do I define as a twink? Let's take a small quote from Dictionary.com!
Quote:
...derive from gay slang for a cute young thing with nothing upstairs.
...
Catch my drift yet?
Seriously, making a character at level 19 that you spend 50g on shows no skill at all, and might as well prove what little skill you have because you have to go into a bracket where people generally do not have equipment on even HALF the level of yours, and still try to brag about winning.
Twinks have no respect from me, and people who have them lose points in my book.
And what do I define as a twink? Let's take a small quote from Dictionary.com!
Quote:
...derive from gay slang for a cute young thing with nothing upstairs.
...
Catch my drift yet?
Seriously, making a character at level 19 that you spend 50g on shows no skill at all, and might as well prove what little skill you have because you have to go into a bracket where people generally do not have equipment on even HALF the level of yours, and still try to brag about winning.
Twinks have no respect from me, and people who have them lose points in my book.
Great, so you explored the alternate definition of twink, and maybe a possible linguistic origin of the phrase for players who tweak their pvp players. Then you made some sweeping generalizations. GOod Job.
Now is there anybody willing to make a well reasoned argument - you know, with logic, maybe common sense, and other outdated concepts like that? Or is that too much to hope for?
MrEnglish wrote:
.
How I see it is that non-twinks are leeching off of the hard work we put into our gear. While I'm owning face, they're in the back giving free HK/kills to the opposing faction which means it's harder for me to get number 1 on the BG chart. So yes, @#%^ you normal players.
Edited, Apr 23rd 2007 2:43am by mrclaus
Quote:
Great, so you explored the alternate definition of twink, and maybe a possible linguistic origin of the phrase for players who tweak their pvp players. Then you made some sweeping generalizations. GOod Job.
Now is there anybody willing to make a well reasoned argument - you know, with logic, maybe common sense, and other outdated concepts like that? Or is that too much to hope for?
Now is there anybody willing to make a well reasoned argument - you know, with logic, maybe common sense, and other outdated concepts like that? Or is that too much to hope for?
His responce was logical and stuff but i get your point.
When i entered WoW i thought positively for PvP. I rolled a PvE server Alliance thinking ill get enough PvP out of battlegrounds. At the 10-19 bracket I was more agitated because even at level 19 i had one-hit deaths about 5 times each game. Little did i know that this would consist on to the 39 bracket. Then the 49 and 59 bracket has just been lots of Premade hordes or otherwise skilled horde blasting at me and at least half a team of dopes.
I hate Twinks to the highest degree, I recently have been leveling a rogue, mage, and a druid and when they all hit 19 im going to be playing WSG with them to just see how hard it would be for a regular player to do things twinks can do.
How is it that puting 50+ gold in gear and instance runs into a low level character and making him go against at least half a team of non-twink, just people wanting to HAVE FUN, team.
The reason i HATE twinks is because it deprives others of fun.
Quote:
I agree with North on the whole twink idea. And yes, I have played one before. They're just people wanting to enlarge their e-***** by beating people actually trying to get the stuff, or trying to enjoy themselves while they level.
And what do I define as a twink? Let's take a small quote from Dictionary.com!
Quote:
...derive from gay slang for a cute young thing with nothing upstairs.
Or how about Wikipedia?
Quote:
Twink (gay slang), a young or young-looking male homosexual
And some synonyms from Wikitonary:
Quote:
(weak or effeminate man): poof (British), *** (especially US), ****** (especially US)
Catch my drift yet?
Seriously, making a character at level 19 that you spend 50g on shows no skill at all, and might as well prove what little skill you have because you have to go into a bracket where people generally do not have equipment on even HALF the level of yours, and still try to brag about winning.
Twinks have no respect from me, and people who have them lose points in my book.
And what do I define as a twink? Let's take a small quote from Dictionary.com!
Quote:
...derive from gay slang for a cute young thing with nothing upstairs.
Or how about Wikipedia?
Quote:
Twink (gay slang), a young or young-looking male homosexual
And some synonyms from Wikitonary:
Quote:
(weak or effeminate man): poof (British), *** (especially US), ****** (especially US)
Catch my drift yet?
Seriously, making a character at level 19 that you spend 50g on shows no skill at all, and might as well prove what little skill you have because you have to go into a bracket where people generally do not have equipment on even HALF the level of yours, and still try to brag about winning.
Twinks have no respect from me, and people who have them lose points in my book.
I have no twink, but really, what's wrong with putting money into a character? You want to get you pure-PvP character good gear, that is perfectly fine. You can get killed by a player in uber gear? Well, that's too bad, stop whinning. You want to explore alternate meanings for the word "twink" because you make it feel as if it betters your arguement. In truth, I imagine you as a bratty child for making post like that, it's not going to help you. As a famous man once said:
Quote:
L2P before whinning on the boards n00b
Now MrEnglish, come back when you have something useful and factual to say. It's fine to dislike twinks. but whinning and using alternate meanings to try and better your arguement is annoying, and will hurt you in the wrong run.
Again, I would like to see a well-reasoned criticism of twinking. milcontwo made a good point, but it ties down more to:
a) unbalanced twinking in a bracket between the Horde and Alliance
This sucks for the twinks on your side too, as they're both outnumbered and the most prominent targets for challenge-starved enemies.
b) unbalance between premades and pugs
Real premades are more likely to have good communication and experience with each other, while pugs suck notoriously, unless you're very lucky. A nontwink premade can beat a bunch of scattered pug twinks, though people who care enough for a premade probably aren't going to go in badly geared/specced.
c) getting one-shotted.
Even for twinks, this is pretty rare unless the opponent is a lowbie and/or very weakly geared. Any halfway skilled 19/29/etc will have a strong advantage over a 12/22/etc, especially when their power-moves crit.
An overall trend that makes the above points worse is that they are self-reinforcing. Unbalanced twinking means that the few good players in the disadvantaged faction begin feeling more and more alone in a sea full of idiots. They may not mind losing occasionally, but even the best challenge-seeker can be tempted by the greener pastures in a less unbalanced bracket.
New players who start in that pvp environment are less likely to enjoy themselves, stick around, and get experienced with/excited about pvp. They get the pvp gear (which really isn't the best versus the time spent - you can level a lot in the time spent getting 50-100 marks for all of it), then move on before learning how to succeed in pvp. They may even pick up vague biases against the more experienced/better geared players (who may be annoyed enough to provide plenty of reason for that bias), which prevents them from learning much of use from the more skilled and sportsmanlike ones.
Lastly, I would like to point out that communication, strategy, and skill have much more to do with winning than individual skill and gear. I've been in twink-heavy pugs where most of my 'allies' thought they were Rambo (and nobody healed), in ones where we were strongly outgeared overall but managed to cooperate to cut through/avoid the scattered enemy twinks. I'll let you guess which ones we got 3 marks for.
Of course, if you're faced with a twink team with good communication, let's just say that winning would be an achievement to treasure.
Conversely, if I'm beaten by a group with more overall skill - twink or not - props to them.
PS: Still looking forward to responses from NorthAI and MrEnglish. Goodnight.
a) unbalanced twinking in a bracket between the Horde and Alliance
This sucks for the twinks on your side too, as they're both outnumbered and the most prominent targets for challenge-starved enemies.
b) unbalance between premades and pugs
Real premades are more likely to have good communication and experience with each other, while pugs suck notoriously, unless you're very lucky. A nontwink premade can beat a bunch of scattered pug twinks, though people who care enough for a premade probably aren't going to go in badly geared/specced.
c) getting one-shotted.
Even for twinks, this is pretty rare unless the opponent is a lowbie and/or very weakly geared. Any halfway skilled 19/29/etc will have a strong advantage over a 12/22/etc, especially when their power-moves crit.
An overall trend that makes the above points worse is that they are self-reinforcing. Unbalanced twinking means that the few good players in the disadvantaged faction begin feeling more and more alone in a sea full of idiots. They may not mind losing occasionally, but even the best challenge-seeker can be tempted by the greener pastures in a less unbalanced bracket.
New players who start in that pvp environment are less likely to enjoy themselves, stick around, and get experienced with/excited about pvp. They get the pvp gear (which really isn't the best versus the time spent - you can level a lot in the time spent getting 50-100 marks for all of it), then move on before learning how to succeed in pvp. They may even pick up vague biases against the more experienced/better geared players (who may be annoyed enough to provide plenty of reason for that bias), which prevents them from learning much of use from the more skilled and sportsmanlike ones.
Lastly, I would like to point out that communication, strategy, and skill have much more to do with winning than individual skill and gear. I've been in twink-heavy pugs where most of my 'allies' thought they were Rambo (and nobody healed), in ones where we were strongly outgeared overall but managed to cooperate to cut through/avoid the scattered enemy twinks. I'll let you guess which ones we got 3 marks for.
Of course, if you're faced with a twink team with good communication, let's just say that winning would be an achievement to treasure.
Conversely, if I'm beaten by a group with more overall skill - twink or not - props to them.
PS: Still looking forward to responses from NorthAI and MrEnglish. Goodnight.
well, just leave the discussing bout twinks here...
Some people approve it, some don't, I tell em to check out the 19 bracket , so they see it is full of twinks, almost no "normal" characters...
They say it isnt.
Each has its own playstyle, and you can't expect all to approve of it, just respect eachother and you will all be fine...
But please north, i totally understand and respect your point of view, but just dont wals in here telling people that twinking is a big nono, just stay away from these topics if you don't aggree...
Some people approve it, some don't, I tell em to check out the 19 bracket , so they see it is full of twinks, almost no "normal" characters...
They say it isnt.
Each has its own playstyle, and you can't expect all to approve of it, just respect eachother and you will all be fine...
But please north, i totally understand and respect your point of view, but just dont wals in here telling people that twinking is a big nono, just stay away from these topics if you don't aggree...
My server's 19 bracket is ruined, more than 60% twinks (rogues and hunters mainly) and when I was playing in there on my main, several of them flamed me for 'ruining their chances' with my 'weak' character.
I haven't done any battlegrounds since, although I love fighting other players, there really isn't much I can do as a 'standard' character.
Everyone says 'making a twink isn't easy' and such things but what do people do when it's their mains in the bracket?
On my server, twinks aren't for humiliating other players or e-peen buffing, they're just necessary for having a fair playing field. This is why I think it's out of control.
Gear matching FTW!
I haven't done any battlegrounds since, although I love fighting other players, there really isn't much I can do as a 'standard' character.
Everyone says 'making a twink isn't easy' and such things but what do people do when it's their mains in the bracket?
On my server, twinks aren't for humiliating other players or e-peen buffing, they're just necessary for having a fair playing field. This is why I think it's out of control.
Gear matching FTW!
Ah, I see I have been neglecting a thread. Sorry about that.
Compyro:
My definition of a Twink, is a character with three times the HP and twice the Damage intended for that level. I don't mind characters decked out in full blues at level 19. They are beatable, if you got some skills. And the blues can be farmed by someone who knows what they are doing. A character decked out in full blues with all the massive +health, Crusader, Lifesteal, +25 Agi and so on is a completely different matter. Then you have crossed the line into Twinking.
The thing I hate about Twinks, is that they are completely, and utterly impossible to kill if you don't have the same enchants. Or possibly a class advantage, I have seen untwinked Hunters kite Twink Rogues around, it is possible. I have had two different level 19 BG characters. Both decked out in self farmed blues/greens, and one enchant each. Minor Runspeed. That was all. And it was great. I could fight an enemy, knowing that unless I was better than him, he had a decent chance to beat me. If I was killed, I knew the enemy was better than me, or I was unlucky. Then I fought against Twinks. I pulled every single move I could, I used Pots, on one char, I used Engineering. But I simply couldn't make a dent in that insane Healthpool, while he had twice as much damage as me. And we had almost identical gear.
The problem is the Enchants. They are simply too powerful, for the 19 and 29 brackets. Take +25 Agi. For a level 60, that is a more than decent boost in AP, Dodge, and so on. Add +25 Agi to a level 19, and you add an insane percentage of AP, Dodge and Crit compared to what you had before you got the enchant. Now look at Crusader. For a 60 Warrior, the buff is quite good. You get a more than decent buff to your damage. Add it to a level 19 Warrior, and you add so much damage that he could one shot another Warrior. Take the +100 HP on chest, +7 Stam on Bracers, Boots. Take the Librams. Add all those stats up, and compare them to the stats the characters had before they were enchanted. Don't tell me that isn't overpowered compared to the level they are in.
Of course, if those enchants were possible to get for every level 19 out there, I wouldn't have said a word. If everyone who just started playing WoW, and wanted to PvP as they go could get the enchants, I wouldn't bother. But as it is, alot of players can't or won't spend 500G on a level 19, because they need the money themselves. And thus, they can't PvP, because some lightsaber wielding prick comes running and Godmodes him.
As for the Gear-Matching system. I applaud it. I am definately willing to pay the price of longer queues if it means I can have a fighting chance with my lowbies. If it means coming up against other people who value skill over Godmode cheats.
And lastly, consider this:
Enchanting, one of the most powerful professions out there, is the only profession without level caps on the items they make. Well, now there is, but it still doesn't solve the problem we have had since before TBC hit us. Every single other profession is level capped in some way, and thus makes the professions balanced PvP wise. Enchanting as it is, is unbalanced as hell.
Stormkraai:
Twinkers enjoy the freedom to spout their arguments for twinking, and I am enjoying my own freedom to voice my opinion on it. Twinking is a huge problem, and thus I can't just ignore it. I will voice my opinion on it, and I will let my displeasure with Twinks be known. If no one does, we can't find a solution to it.
Don't get me wrong. I don't mind people giving money to their alts. Buy your alts those 16 slot bags. Transfer money for gear and mounts and you name it. I don't mind at all, hell I do it myself. Just don't enchant your characters into Godmode characters, because in the end, you are just ruining the gaming experience for others.
Edited, Apr 28th 2007 5:13pm by NorthAI
Compyro:
My definition of a Twink, is a character with three times the HP and twice the Damage intended for that level. I don't mind characters decked out in full blues at level 19. They are beatable, if you got some skills. And the blues can be farmed by someone who knows what they are doing. A character decked out in full blues with all the massive +health, Crusader, Lifesteal, +25 Agi and so on is a completely different matter. Then you have crossed the line into Twinking.
The thing I hate about Twinks, is that they are completely, and utterly impossible to kill if you don't have the same enchants. Or possibly a class advantage, I have seen untwinked Hunters kite Twink Rogues around, it is possible. I have had two different level 19 BG characters. Both decked out in self farmed blues/greens, and one enchant each. Minor Runspeed. That was all. And it was great. I could fight an enemy, knowing that unless I was better than him, he had a decent chance to beat me. If I was killed, I knew the enemy was better than me, or I was unlucky. Then I fought against Twinks. I pulled every single move I could, I used Pots, on one char, I used Engineering. But I simply couldn't make a dent in that insane Healthpool, while he had twice as much damage as me. And we had almost identical gear.
The problem is the Enchants. They are simply too powerful, for the 19 and 29 brackets. Take +25 Agi. For a level 60, that is a more than decent boost in AP, Dodge, and so on. Add +25 Agi to a level 19, and you add an insane percentage of AP, Dodge and Crit compared to what you had before you got the enchant. Now look at Crusader. For a 60 Warrior, the buff is quite good. You get a more than decent buff to your damage. Add it to a level 19 Warrior, and you add so much damage that he could one shot another Warrior. Take the +100 HP on chest, +7 Stam on Bracers, Boots. Take the Librams. Add all those stats up, and compare them to the stats the characters had before they were enchanted. Don't tell me that isn't overpowered compared to the level they are in.
Of course, if those enchants were possible to get for every level 19 out there, I wouldn't have said a word. If everyone who just started playing WoW, and wanted to PvP as they go could get the enchants, I wouldn't bother. But as it is, alot of players can't or won't spend 500G on a level 19, because they need the money themselves. And thus, they can't PvP, because some lightsaber wielding prick comes running and Godmodes him.
As for the Gear-Matching system. I applaud it. I am definately willing to pay the price of longer queues if it means I can have a fighting chance with my lowbies. If it means coming up against other people who value skill over Godmode cheats.
And lastly, consider this:
Enchanting, one of the most powerful professions out there, is the only profession without level caps on the items they make. Well, now there is, but it still doesn't solve the problem we have had since before TBC hit us. Every single other profession is level capped in some way, and thus makes the professions balanced PvP wise. Enchanting as it is, is unbalanced as hell.
Stormkraai:
Twinkers enjoy the freedom to spout their arguments for twinking, and I am enjoying my own freedom to voice my opinion on it. Twinking is a huge problem, and thus I can't just ignore it. I will voice my opinion on it, and I will let my displeasure with Twinks be known. If no one does, we can't find a solution to it.
Don't get me wrong. I don't mind people giving money to their alts. Buy your alts those 16 slot bags. Transfer money for gear and mounts and you name it. I don't mind at all, hell I do it myself. Just don't enchant your characters into Godmode characters, because in the end, you are just ruining the gaming experience for others.
Edited, Apr 28th 2007 5:13pm by NorthAI
lol you think ppl care
I love 19 wsg - have for a long time. But months ago it reached the point where you must at least semi-twink to have any hope of having any fun. In truth, if you don't fully twink and join a good, fun twinking guild - yer not maxing out the experience imho.
There are guilds out there that come into wsg w/ at least 6 or 7 people w/ fishing hats and boots, clefthide, boar speed on boots, full enchants - and in some cases double arena trinkets! There is a rogue w/ like 83% evade!
So, ruined or not, it's fight twinks w/ twinking to me.
OP - I tend to go MM for 19 wsg - 5/5 to get more crits and 5/5 to make concus shot sometimes stun. I like those best.
If your job is to just kill, that's a good combo.
I don't like the BM options for this level.
There is a Surv option, esp if you see your job as one of combined dps and support (i.e. you are trying to keep your side's fc alive) -- Hawkeye and Imp Hum slaying - then tier two go 3/3 in imp wingclip - and maybe the imp traps one (I think it can give fire trap a chance stun?? something like that).
But I just go MM.
I suppose the imp AotH looks appealing, but I'm so often in monkey mode, it's no good for me. I need monkey to fend off rogues, warriors and other meleers - so imp AotH doesn't cut it for how I play. And who needs tougher pets for 19 wsg (higher lvl bm is great for pvp - not 19 tho) - our pets only get rarely attacked. GL!
There are guilds out there that come into wsg w/ at least 6 or 7 people w/ fishing hats and boots, clefthide, boar speed on boots, full enchants - and in some cases double arena trinkets! There is a rogue w/ like 83% evade!
So, ruined or not, it's fight twinks w/ twinking to me.
OP - I tend to go MM for 19 wsg - 5/5 to get more crits and 5/5 to make concus shot sometimes stun. I like those best.
If your job is to just kill, that's a good combo.
I don't like the BM options for this level.
There is a Surv option, esp if you see your job as one of combined dps and support (i.e. you are trying to keep your side's fc alive) -- Hawkeye and Imp Hum slaying - then tier two go 3/3 in imp wingclip - and maybe the imp traps one (I think it can give fire trap a chance stun?? something like that).
But I just go MM.
I suppose the imp AotH looks appealing, but I'm so often in monkey mode, it's no good for me. I need monkey to fend off rogues, warriors and other meleers - so imp AotH doesn't cut it for how I play. And who needs tougher pets for 19 wsg (higher lvl bm is great for pvp - not 19 tho) - our pets only get rarely attacked. GL!
nvm
Edited, Apr 29th 2007 1:25am by Aethien
Edited, Apr 29th 2007 1:25am by Aethien
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