Hi,
I have a question. Mana is an important part of a paladin's base, but how much do we really need?
As I leveled my pally to 60, I was always frustrated with waiting for my mana to regen, killing mobs, then waiting for my mana to regen again.
Sooo... I decided to drop the +STR and replace with +INT! All my gear is basically +INT. I gather that the mana and ability to spam spells will offset and surpase the AP I lost.
I want to respec to prot to do AOE grind. I would basically be spamming holy shield and consecration constantly with SoR that has a judged SoCr boost. I gather my holy damage esp. with +SPELL DMG gear in BC will greatly surpase my regular DPS.
This is my char now spec holy with 5.2k mana...
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/#character-sheet.xml?r=Thrall&n=Darthnobody
Advice?
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21 posts
You're going to need a bit more stam for AoE grinding, since you're going to be taking a lot of hits. You gear is fine for healing, but it needs some work for prot. But worry not! Outland has a ton of good pally tank gear easily obtainable from quests.
My advice on the actual AoE grind is not to judge SotC and use SoR. Consecrate and Holy Shield will burn through your mana so fast that you'll be lucky to kill two mobs before you run out, even with the mana pool you have right now.
My method of AoE grinding is to gather up at least 5 mobs, judge light and use SoW. You don't need to hold aggro, so no need for righteousness. Let your consecrate and holy shield do most of your damage. With at least 5 mobs hitting you, redoubt will proc a LOT, and with holy shield you should be blocking ~70% of the time. Once your target mob is down, judge light on the next target and put SoW back up.
If all goes well, you should kill everything and still have around 50-70% health and mana.
Edited, Apr 19th 2007 5:11am by HanyouGod
My advice on the actual AoE grind is not to judge SotC and use SoR. Consecrate and Holy Shield will burn through your mana so fast that you'll be lucky to kill two mobs before you run out, even with the mana pool you have right now.
My method of AoE grinding is to gather up at least 5 mobs, judge light and use SoW. You don't need to hold aggro, so no need for righteousness. Let your consecrate and holy shield do most of your damage. With at least 5 mobs hitting you, redoubt will proc a LOT, and with holy shield you should be blocking ~70% of the time. Once your target mob is down, judge light on the next target and put SoW back up.
If all goes well, you should kill everything and still have around 50-70% health and mana.
Edited, Apr 19th 2007 5:11am by HanyouGod
Scholar
46 posts
Cool! Thanks mate.
When you mention a bit more stamina, should I aim for around 4.5k~ HP?
I think I will judge SotC and SoR with one or two MOBs and judge SoL and have SoW up for more as you suggested. I guess getting firey enchant wont hurt either on my one-handed considering how often it procs.
Overall strategy would be to consecrate, holy shield, blessing of sanctuary, shield spike (still cant figure out where to get one), and ret aura (should i try to get this improved? through the retro tree?).
Suggested builds? or probably wait for the patch... Does anyone know when the patch is coming out?
- bakaneko
When you mention a bit more stamina, should I aim for around 4.5k~ HP?
I think I will judge SotC and SoR with one or two MOBs and judge SoL and have SoW up for more as you suggested. I guess getting firey enchant wont hurt either on my one-handed considering how often it procs.
Overall strategy would be to consecrate, holy shield, blessing of sanctuary, shield spike (still cant figure out where to get one), and ret aura (should i try to get this improved? through the retro tree?).
Suggested builds? or probably wait for the patch... Does anyone know when the patch is coming out?
- bakaneko
I personally avoid Consecration when AoE farming because the mana/damage ratio seems too poor. And even Holy Shield is to be used sparingly lest you run out of mana faster than you'd like.
Shield Spikes are made by Blacksmiths. I've had such a hard time finding someone capable of making them on my server that I just gave up. I even found the plans for the Mithril Spike but the only guildmate of mine who I trusted and could've made them wasn't high enough in Blacksmith yet. (Have to check with him again cause he might be now :O)
But basically Retro Aura, BoSanc and the many procs of Redoubt and Reckoning should be enough to let you burn through mobs. Get a weapon with 1.90-2.00 if you need every bit of JoL/JoW, otherwise you can get something slower to get more white DPS out of Reckoning procs. (Thanks to Thels for that info)
I'm not 60 yet, but this is what my build will look like. Shield Spec isn't that good, maybe Toughness would've been better, but it's of little consequence. I took Avenger's Shield mostly for World PvP encounters. (Damn you, lack of ranged options!)
Once I start getting enough +Spell Damage, I think I'll try pulling just 2, 3 max, and use JotC and SoR since SoR damage is increased with +Spell Damage. I'll see if it's faster even with a bit fewer Reckoning procs.
Shield Spikes are made by Blacksmiths. I've had such a hard time finding someone capable of making them on my server that I just gave up. I even found the plans for the Mithril Spike but the only guildmate of mine who I trusted and could've made them wasn't high enough in Blacksmith yet. (Have to check with him again cause he might be now :O)
But basically Retro Aura, BoSanc and the many procs of Redoubt and Reckoning should be enough to let you burn through mobs. Get a weapon with 1.90-2.00 if you need every bit of JoL/JoW, otherwise you can get something slower to get more white DPS out of Reckoning procs. (Thanks to Thels for that info)
I'm not 60 yet, but this is what my build will look like. Shield Spec isn't that good, maybe Toughness would've been better, but it's of little consequence. I took Avenger's Shield mostly for World PvP encounters. (Damn you, lack of ranged options!)
Once I start getting enough +Spell Damage, I think I'll try pulling just 2, 3 max, and use JotC and SoR since SoR damage is increased with +Spell Damage. I'll see if it's faster even with a bit fewer Reckoning procs.
21 posts
Quote:
I personally avoid Consecration when AoE farming because the mana/damage ratio seems too poor. And even Holy Shield is to be used sparingly lest you run out of mana faster than you'd like.
That's why you use SoW when attacking. If you find yourself running low on mana consistently, then alter it slighty by judging wisdom and using SoW. When reckoning procs, which if you're AoE grinding should be a LOT, you can get up to 300 mana per swing. You won't run out of mana. Also, part of the beauty of using SoW is that you don't have to judge it and bring another seal whenever the cooldown is up. That saves quite a bit of mana right there. And yes, Consecration's mana/damage ratio sucks when fighting one mob. A 384 damage spell over 8 seconds that costs 505 mana at level 60 does indeed suck. However, when you AoE grind and have at least 6 guys on you, that becomes 2304 dmg for 505 mana. That's not too shabby.
As for lack of damage, you'd be surprised how much damage is pumped out when you add everything up.
Consecrate + Holy Shield + BoSanc + Shield Spike + Ret Aura + Reckoning + White damage = quite a bit of damage
Sure you may not take the first mob down super quick, but by the time you get to the third guy, they're at 20% health. When I was 62 I had a bad pull of naga in Zangarmarsh which resulted in 6 of them coming at me at once. It wasn't until all but two were dead that I realized that all the naga were 2-3 levels higher than I was, but it made sense because I did have to use my bubble for a quick uninterrupted heal. If I had judged SotC and used SoR, I would of run out of mana so quick that I wouldn't of been able to heal myself.
Also keep in mind that you aren't spamming Holy Shield just for the extra damage, it mitigates a ton of damage that you would of taken each pull. When AoE grinding you don't have to kill things super quick, you just need to take your time, not run out of mana, and most importantly not die. Try pulling 7 mobs and using SotC and SoR and see how it goes, then try it with SoL and SoW. it goes so much more smoothly.
Quote:
Shield Spec isn't that good, maybe Toughness would've been better, but it's of little consequence.
Oh, and get both.
Edited, Apr 19th 2007 12:14pm by HanyouGod
Yeah, I think I tend to play too defensively/safely. Instead of JoW/SoW I usually stick with JoL/SoL and simpy use few abilities that require mana. Thing is, when I use Wisdom and a runner brings in unexpected adds, it can go downhill faster than if I'm constantly healing through Light. I'll give it a try sometime tonight though and see how it goes.
And yeah, Consecration suddenly sounds better when used against large packs. I think I'll try to alternate my fighting style and see how it goes. :)
EDIT: Oh, and I just wanted to get Avenger's Shield in Prot before I moved on to Holy so I didn't have enough free points to take both Shield Spec and Toughness.
Edited, Apr 19th 2007 1:37pm by Selverein
And yeah, Consecration suddenly sounds better when used against large packs. I think I'll try to alternate my fighting style and see how it goes. :)
EDIT: Oh, and I just wanted to get Avenger's Shield in Prot before I moved on to Holy so I didn't have enough free points to take both Shield Spec and Toughness.
Edited, Apr 19th 2007 1:37pm by Selverein
True, Consecration is horrible mana efficiency 1v1. My current rank is at 192 dmg for 290 mana, only about 0.66 DPM.
But, when you look at the math in 1v5 for example, it becomes 960 dmg for 290 mana, and jumps way up to 3.31 DPM. That's quite an improvement ;)
But, when you look at the math in 1v5 for example, it becomes 960 dmg for 290 mana, and jumps way up to 3.31 DPM. That's quite an improvement ;)
Yep, well, tried that alternative way to grind. It's very very nice, save for one thing: If I get more adds than expected, or face a caster, I'm screwed and must rely on bubble or something like that.
With JoW on my target and SoW on me, I can use Consec a few times in battles and spam Holy Shield as soon as it's up and still finish with 90-100% mana at the end of the fight. One big juicy Holy Light and my health is full, or near full.
However, casters cause too much damage and don't help much in proccing Reckoning so I find myself having to switch to JoL/SoL to stay alive. Sometimes even pop bubble.
Overall it's still a welcome change. Fights are a bit faster.
With JoW on my target and SoW on me, I can use Consec a few times in battles and spam Holy Shield as soon as it's up and still finish with 90-100% mana at the end of the fight. One big juicy Holy Light and my health is full, or near full.
However, casters cause too much damage and don't help much in proccing Reckoning so I find myself having to switch to JoL/SoL to stay alive. Sometimes even pop bubble.
Overall it's still a welcome change. Fights are a bit faster.
21 posts
The trick when you do happen to get a caster is to just take the pack of melee guys on you and move them to the caster, then focus on the caster first. You will take more damage, since you can't block magic, but being in melee range of the caster usually makes them take a few melee swings at you...which just tickle. Casters aren't as big a problem fur us when AoE grinding like they are a mage, since almost every skill we need to use to kill them is an instant cast and can't be interrupted.
But, yes, they can still cause havoc if you get one accidentally.
Edited, Apr 25th 2007 12:25pm by HanyouGod
But, yes, they can still cause havoc if you get one accidentally.
Edited, Apr 25th 2007 12:25pm by HanyouGod
Pally nub here. I wanted to ask you guys what level do you think this style of grinding can one start at? I'm really interested in this, but I'm pretty sure Ret is the way to go until the proper level, which doesn't sound like (without looking at any specific details) until around the 40s to start. Level 38 is first rank of SoW, but I'm not sure if that's a good level to start. What do you guys say?
It's up to you, totally. People say that you should respec to Protection at level 35, when you can invest 5 points into Reckoning. Although it really is a great talent, it doesn't mean that taking protection before that would really slow you down or gimp you in any way. Personally, I respec'd into prot right after getting Seal of Command and realizing that Retribution isn't for me and I've been having great time since then (and before that I even considered quitting my pally).
Basically, most of your tools come at level 30 (blessing of sanct, seal of light). At level 35 you have maxed out Reckoning and at level 38 seal of wisdom (some prefer it over seal of light, but for me it's situational). I'd say AoE fun starts at 30.
EDIT:
Of course at level 35 you will be able to take on more mobs (just go to dabyrie farmstead/go'shek farm in arathi and see how many enemies you can withstand, you'll be amazed) and at level 40, with the plate and holy shield even more than that (did you hate how hard it is to get the group for Uldaman quests which are mostly outside of the instance? Bah, now you can do it by yourself, you're a one man army after all). But level 30 is a good place to start.
Edited, Apr 25th 2007 8:16pm by Kahmeel
Basically, most of your tools come at level 30 (blessing of sanct, seal of light). At level 35 you have maxed out Reckoning and at level 38 seal of wisdom (some prefer it over seal of light, but for me it's situational). I'd say AoE fun starts at 30.
EDIT:
Of course at level 35 you will be able to take on more mobs (just go to dabyrie farmstead/go'shek farm in arathi and see how many enemies you can withstand, you'll be amazed) and at level 40, with the plate and holy shield even more than that (did you hate how hard it is to get the group for Uldaman quests which are mostly outside of the instance? Bah, now you can do it by yourself, you're a one man army after all). But level 30 is a good place to start.
Edited, Apr 25th 2007 8:16pm by Kahmeel
Excellent man. I think I will just try prot to start with and if the lvling is absolutely terrible I will switch to Ret, but I can't see how it would be super bad.
As I'm reaching the late 50's, I find Prot multi-tanking mobs isn't quite as effective as before. Granted, the mobs are always my level or 1-2 levels above so it doesn't help.
Otherwise, I went in WPL yesterday night for the Minion Scourgestone quest for the level 50 BE Pally quest. I could get 5-6 melee undeads on me, which ranged from 51-53 I believe, or 3 melees and a skeleton caster. I would almost always finish at 90-100% mana with my health anywhere between 1/3 to 2/3 because I never healed during the fight. (Nor used SoL/JoL) Holy Shield up at all times possible and Consecration once in a while depending how the battle is going. Always once to start the fight and make sure no one comes and tries to steal of one my zombies.
But yeah, my point is: As you level up, it'll become harder to take on multiple mobs slightly above your level. For mobs lower than you, however, it's just AWESOME.
I'd recommend minimum level being 35 for Reckoning, but you might also wait till 40 and get a good one-hander and shield, upgrade to plate and get Holy Shield. But like Kahmeel said, you could also start Prot from level 10, it's up to you. I do think the first levels are faster as Retro though.
Otherwise, I went in WPL yesterday night for the Minion Scourgestone quest for the level 50 BE Pally quest. I could get 5-6 melee undeads on me, which ranged from 51-53 I believe, or 3 melees and a skeleton caster. I would almost always finish at 90-100% mana with my health anywhere between 1/3 to 2/3 because I never healed during the fight. (Nor used SoL/JoL) Holy Shield up at all times possible and Consecration once in a while depending how the battle is going. Always once to start the fight and make sure no one comes and tries to steal of one my zombies.
But yeah, my point is: As you level up, it'll become harder to take on multiple mobs slightly above your level. For mobs lower than you, however, it's just AWESOME.
I'd recommend minimum level being 35 for Reckoning, but you might also wait till 40 and get a good one-hander and shield, upgrade to plate and get Holy Shield. But like Kahmeel said, you could also start Prot from level 10, it's up to you. I do think the first levels are faster as Retro though.
Well I do have some Ret pally experience. I have an old Human 50 pally on an old server that, in frustration from trying countless specs (and not realizing it was mainly my gear that was terrible) I finally let my carnivore friends have at him in a DE-ing party. He's naked but I'm considering re-gearing him and trying again (then again, I certainly wouldn't mind re-rolling and going BE, but I think there *may* be a surplus of BE Pallies)
Anyways, I stuck with Ret until around 40 or so, then tried a couple different specs to no avail. Then again, it was my first char ever and I had no understanding of real gameplay, so I just stuck with the auto-attack solution.
Now after having lvled a warlock (if you want to learn game mechanics go play a lock) I'm re-considering reviving my Pally or starting anew. I've always wanted to endgame with him, and now that Outlands is being nice with plenty of pally-gearable quests, I'm motivated.
Anyways, I stuck with Ret until around 40 or so, then tried a couple different specs to no avail. Then again, it was my first char ever and I had no understanding of real gameplay, so I just stuck with the auto-attack solution.
Now after having lvled a warlock (if you want to learn game mechanics go play a lock) I'm re-considering reviving my Pally or starting anew. I've always wanted to endgame with him, and now that Outlands is being nice with plenty of pally-gearable quests, I'm motivated.
there isn't a surplus lots of people prefer pally tanks and everyone who does heroics understands the value of a plate wearing healer
Well, there certainly is a feeling of surplus. I mean, every player and their mother rolled a Blood Elf when BC came out so servers got overpopulated with them.
Thing to remember, however, is that many won't ever make it past level 20-30, much less 40. A few were talented enough or powerleveled to reach the high levels in a few days/week and the rest who are willing enough but less skilled will take yet another while before they reach 60-70.
If you want to make a dedicated BE Holy Pally, there's no problem. I wouldn't dare compare the amounts of Horde Pallies versus *Hunters* and, IMHO, Pallies have far more utility than your basic pew pew pew.
EDIT: Well, I did the absurd and used WoW Census to check out my server to know how many Blood Elves we have, how many Pallies we have, how many reached level 70 and how many 70's of other classes we have.
Of course, not all servers are like this. At least, I would think so.
Server: Drak'thul, PvP. Horde side.
Total Horde population: 9245
Total of Blood Elves: 2582 (Ugh... that's even more than the Undead)
Total of level 70's: 1725
Total of BE Pallies: 889
Total of level 70 BE's: 134
Total of level 70 BE Pallies: 71
So, that's more than half of the Blood Elves level 70 BUT it's like 4.12% of the 70's population. So 1 Pally for every 25 players. Not quite enough.
Server: Drak'thul, PvP. Horde side.
Total of level 70's: 1725 In order of most to fewest:
-285 Warriors
-223 Priests
-222 Mages
-209 Rogues
-204 Shammies
-189 Warlocks
-174 Hunters
-148 Druids
-71 Pallies (Which is half of the second rarest class at 70)
So Blood Elves are flooding all servers, but most are low levels stuck in the 20's and 30's so don't get discouraged by that if you wanna make one. Level up and people will know you've got the dedication and skills to succeed.
Edited, Apr 26th 2007 3:37pm by Selverein
Thing to remember, however, is that many won't ever make it past level 20-30, much less 40. A few were talented enough or powerleveled to reach the high levels in a few days/week and the rest who are willing enough but less skilled will take yet another while before they reach 60-70.
If you want to make a dedicated BE Holy Pally, there's no problem. I wouldn't dare compare the amounts of Horde Pallies versus *Hunters* and, IMHO, Pallies have far more utility than your basic pew pew pew.
EDIT: Well, I did the absurd and used WoW Census to check out my server to know how many Blood Elves we have, how many Pallies we have, how many reached level 70 and how many 70's of other classes we have.
Of course, not all servers are like this. At least, I would think so.
Server: Drak'thul, PvP. Horde side.
Total Horde population: 9245
Total of Blood Elves: 2582 (Ugh... that's even more than the Undead)
Total of level 70's: 1725
Total of BE Pallies: 889
Total of level 70 BE's: 134
Total of level 70 BE Pallies: 71
So, that's more than half of the Blood Elves level 70 BUT it's like 4.12% of the 70's population. So 1 Pally for every 25 players. Not quite enough.
Server: Drak'thul, PvP. Horde side.
Total of level 70's: 1725 In order of most to fewest:
-285 Warriors
-223 Priests
-222 Mages
-209 Rogues
-204 Shammies
-189 Warlocks
-174 Hunters
-148 Druids
-71 Pallies (Which is half of the second rarest class at 70)
So Blood Elves are flooding all servers, but most are low levels stuck in the 20's and 30's so don't get discouraged by that if you wanna make one. Level up and people will know you've got the dedication and skills to succeed.
Edited, Apr 26th 2007 3:37pm by Selverein
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