I hate to say this then, but your brass daggers and sleeping daggers are much more time consuming than finding cheap moraines and maple sap. I find moraines for 1000g all the time, and I find maple sap easily all over the place for cheap. Plus, its a grade 1 item compared to belladonna? Either way, your brass daggers and sleep daggers require more class connections and market ward searching than either the moraines or maple saps.
This guide automatically assumes that you are ignoring (for the most part) the rest of the world, except for alchemy.
Also, Belladonna is purchaseable from an NPC (regardless of price) and Maple Sap is not (for now, please see below).
As a rank 23 alchemist I have to sincerely warn other players against using the brass dagger -> sleeping dagger synth as a way to rank up. It is a good way to earn some gil, but a horrible way to rank anything up as it is too time consuming to be an effective means to rank up.
After skilling up on the initially tough Belladonna > Sleeping Powder synthesis, and the easier Sleeping Powder > Sleeping Potion synthesis, all that is required is Clove Oil, which again can be purchased from NPC, and a Brass Dagger, which sell for very cheap now. Knowing a Goldsmith that will make them for you makes it even easier.
In addition, you also suggest friends supply you with scale bugs. So, in all honesty and sincerity everything you've pointed out about the synths I used is something that your guide is also guilty of for all synths post crystal shards.
Once again, I try to provide a guide that follows a synthesis path that can be fulfilled with minimal farming, dependence on other players (by dependance meaning no other alternative...asking friends for spare materials to supplement your grind is obviously a bonus if you can get stuff from them), or searching market wards. Distilled Water ingredients are purchased from an NPC, Crystals are obviously never hard to get, Belladonna is purchased from an NPC (albeit at a higher price than most would like, but 3 belladonna makes 4 powders which gives you another 4 synths to skill up on). You keep suggesting to look in bazaars for items. This is great, if you wanna spend the time doing it. However, this guide is for people who want to grind through alchemist, not float down the lazy river of eventual progress. When...if...SE fixes the Market Wards, so that we can find bazaared items faster...I WILL DEFINITELY, AND SERIOUSLY, examine your ideas, and to be honest, most likely implement them AT THAT TIME. For now, i am avoiding the Market Ward like the plauge. I spent 5 hours looking through Limsa Lominsa, for Jellyfish Umbrellas and Jellyfish Cnida, just for my own personal use...I checked EVERY SINGLE WARD, and EVERY SINGLE NPC in each ward. I found one of each. Did I find other random ingredients? Yes, I got 2 stacks of Belladonna at about 300g each, some cloves to make mre clove oil... and a couple maple saps. But all in all I felt I wasted an enormous amount of time. I would not want to repeat that exercise anywhere, whether it be Gridania (for the maple sap) or Ul'dah (for whatever...). I am sure a lot of people agree.
Grinding distilled water for 10 ranks is the same as grinding maple sap. Cheap synths with easy to acquire (and cheap) materials. Dyes are also a better means to make gil as a brass dagger only makes 1 sleeping dagger while dyes make 12 per synth and sell for 1-3K per dye so 1 synth is equal to about 12-36,0000gil and won't require another class to make an item.
First of all, no. Grinding Distilled Water is not the same as grinding Maple Syrup synths. Distilled Water you grind sitting in front of the NPC you buy from. Maple Syrup requires you hunt through hundreds of bazaars for Maple Sap, or farm it yourself (and you will NOT get Maple Sap EVERY time from a spot). Second you jump straight to the Sleeping Dagger (which is the gil making end of the spectrum) and ignor the true skilling up (which is the belladonna > sleeping powder > sleeping potion). With 5 stacks of belladonna you get 20 synths. From that, for each successful synthesis you get an additional 4 synths. Then, given the ability to get Brass Daggers, you then get an additional synth for each of those. So lets do the math: Assuming 100% success rate:
60 Belladonna =
20 Synths = 80 Sleeping Powders
80 Sleeping Powders = 80 Synths = 240 Sleeping Potions
240 Sleeping Potions = 240 Synths = 240 Sleeping Daggers TOTAL SYNTHS PERFORMED: 340. Assuming 75% success rate:
60 Belladonna =
20 Synths = 60 Sleeping Powders
60 Sleeping Powders = 60 Synths = 135 Sleeping Potions
135 Sleeping Potions = 135 Synths = 101 Sleeping Daggers TOTAL SYNTHS PERFORMED: 215. Assuming 50% success rate:
60 Belladonna =
20 Synths = 40 Sleeping Powders
40 Sleeping Powders = 40 Synths = 60 Sleeping Potions
60 Sleeping Potions = 60 Synths = 30 Sleeping Daggers TOTAL SYNTHS PERFORMED: 120.
Cost of Belladonna from NPC: 5,990gil each; Time required to find the belladonna: Minimal.
So ~18K to make 4 Sleeping Powders. Then 4 Sleeping Powders makes 12 Sleeping Potions at almost no additional cost.
Approximate Value of Sleeping Potions: 2,000g Each. I regularly sell these for 5K each, if I don't use them for Sleeping Daggers. This adds up to a 40,000g profit starting from one synthesis.
Cost of Maple Sap from NPC: UNAVAILABLE; Time required to find the Maple Sap: Ridiculous.
So I usually see Maple Sap for about 100-250g each, when I happen to come across it, as I spend little time in Gridania, and away from the Alchemist's Guild. Then 1 Maple Sap makes 12 Maple Syrup. No one buys Maple Syrup, so it gets NPCd for practically nothing. This adds up to a waste of time, and money, since I am not making any money at all from this.
So even with a 50% success rate you are still getting 60 synths out of 60 Belladonna, which can be bought from an NPC, and another 60 synths if you wanna try and make some gil. That's a total of 120 synths from 60 items.
With Maple Sap, you first have to find it, then when you do you get 1 synth per sap. That's it. Also, there is no potential for reasonable profit.
Now obviously, dumping 200+ Sleeping Daggers on the market is not viable, but you can sell enough to make up for costs of all materials and come out well ahead for now. Sleeping Potions also sell well if you decide not to take the extra step and make daggers.
I have already acquired over 1 million Gil from selling dyes and fish glues, and this is something all alchemists can do without the assistance of another player or class.
Please tell me how, using Alchemist alone
, you managed to fish
, or kill monsters
, for the items required in those synths with out the assistance of any other player. And remember, bazaars count as assistance from another player.
Also, how long did it take to make that 1 million gil? A day? A week? Two weeks? I can easily counter and say I made 1 mil in the first 5 minutes of completing the first 10 sleeping daggers I made, and by the next day had over 5 mil gil. But that is irrelevant because each person in the game will experience buying and selling differently. As time goes on the price for everything changes and what once was profitable will become useless, as new things are made. That is why this guide, too, will change as time goes on.
I should also note that radiant moraines are plentiful as leves hand them out like candy. There will never be a shortage of them and they are cheap. Stock piling them for clusters might seem like a good idea until you realize that clusters are not so abundant as moraines and they cost more than it would cost to buy 24 crystals. So again, moraine-> shards is good for skill ups.
Edited, Oct 14th 2010 10:37am by Nathanael
Yes Moraines ARE plentiful now. That's because there isn't very many, if anyone, that can use them to break clusters, which will be a lot more common once people start fighting elementals more often. So for now they remain, nearly useless. Also you will see the price of clusters drop immensely once more of them show up. If you remember the first time crystals really hit the market I couldn't buy them in bulk for 1k each like I can now, and regularly do especially being able to HQ 32+ shards from one crystal a lot more often. But that is besides the point. No one is telling you to go out and buy clusters now. In fact, until I know what level Clusters are I will probably not even mention it as a viable skill up, and that's assuming thier price drops and availibility increases. However, I still recommend, saving Radiant Moraines for making Crystals, if not to skill up on, or make money from so to speak, but because as the synthesis levels increase, the appearance of crystals being required instead of shards also increases. The ability to make our own crystals, may very well save us a lot of gil later on down the road.
Here's the thing about Belladonna however, theres 4 synths you get from starting with one ingredient. Belladonna can be made into Sleeping Powder or Stimulating Salts (? I think thats the name...) Sleeping Powder can then be turned into Sleeping Potions, which sell fairly well to soloists for use in emergencies to get away from mobs, or you can go one step further and make sleeping daggers, if you have the brass daggers to do so. Or you can go the other route and make the salts. THe salts can then be made into Dawn Drops which is also a good skill up synth. Now the reason i was recommending these as a viable skill up at this level is that it gives you an opportunity to make a good amount of gil WHILE skilling up, rather than making dyes, which unless your making buffalo leather dye, isn't that great of a skill up at this level. Belladonna as of late has been much easier to find I have noticed, and can turn into a profitable product. Belladonna x 3 = 4 sleeping powder = 48 sleeping potions, OR belladonna x 4 = 4 salts = 48 dawn drops. As of right now I have found little to no market at all for maple syrup, and have been forced to npc all of the syrup i have made since alchemists cannot use maple syrup in any recipe.
Personally I sold my first batch of 10 sleeping daggers for 250K each, thats 2.5mil gil from 10 items, the next batch i made 20 and HQ'd one, started selling at a lower price to move them faster, especially now that i had the gil to blow on materials, sold the HQ for 250k and am still selling NQ's for 100k each. Now I realize that n the future prices will go down, but so will the availibility of other product, and maybe even the ability to buy EFFERVESCENT WATER from an NPC (I HOPE) since NATRON would be the most logical synthesis to grind on at this level. For now since Belladonna is an item sold by an NPC (even at 5990 Gil each...) its still in infinite supply and does not require anyone searching bazaars for their materials. Hence its presence in my guide. FOR NOW.
As said before, I will continue to update my guide as new content is released, and as my knowledge of the availibility of items increases.
So, for all you nay-sayers out there, here is what I like to call my "Wishlist Grinding Guide" This guide includes recipes that would in theory, given the ability of buying items from new NPCs in the future, be the path of least resistance for leveling:
Rank 1-10: Distilled Water (Possible now, and recommended.)
Rank 10-15: Linseed Oil (Theoretically possible now. Would be great if NPC price of Flax is lowered.)
Rank 15-20: Crystals > Shards (Possible now, and recommended.)
Rank 20-25: Natron (Cannot buy Effervescent Water from NPC...yet.)
Rank 25-30: Maple Syrup (If Maple Sap was sold by a future NPC, this would be PERFECT.)
Rank 30-??: Unknown for now, given available recipes.
Maybe when access to the new city is granted we will be able to use THIS list instead of my hodge-podge above. Who knows. But rest assured this guide will become a lot more fluid and easy the more time goes by. Edited, Oct 14th 2010 6:09pm by StateAlchemist2 Edited, Oct 14th 2010 6:20pm by StateAlchemist2