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So you wanna be a Fisherman eh?Follow

#1 Feb 03 2004 at 5:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hello everyone, it's me Wolfsfable chiming in on the subect of fish. Seems to be the hot topic as of late and being LVL 80 in cooking UG I need Emperor fish (skill LVL 90 req to catch) to further my cooking skill so I decided to give fishing a go.

I have been fishing a lot the past couple of weeks and have found the guides on this board (no offense fellas) but although they work, they are about as exciting as clipping my nose hairs.

Folks fishing is a great habbit to pick up. It is by far one of the most resilant tradeskills of them all. You fish its kinda like pulling FREE money outta the water. Before we get started lets clear up something, YOU ARE GONNA BREAK FISHING RODS. If you wanna skill up at an decent rate you hafta take chances, risk vs reward.

First things first, JOIN THE FISHING GUILD. You can't skill up if you are not part of the guild, so head over to Port Windurst and join up. Most guides on this board say grab a Composite or Mythian and head for the moat carps. Bad idea.

Skill 0-5
First thing ya should do is grab a couple bamboo rods and some handfuls of little worms and high tail it over to Bastok Mines area. Use your bamboo rod and your little worms to fish up some crayfish outta the sewers. These little suckers may not look like much (DONT SELL UM) but they along with your trusty bamboo rod will LVL your fishing skill up rather quickly. Here are a few reasons to use the bamboo. It's the single best rod for beginner fisherman to use and skill up on and it is designed for smaller fish,so none of those pesky "too small" messages. Not to mention it's cheap as hell. Bastok Mines area, well little worms in that area will pretty much single out only crayfish. Taget fish for good skil gains early on.

Skill 5-8
After getting a 5 in fishing you can off your bamboo rod/rods you won't be needing them anymore. Grab yourself a Carbon fishing rod and a Sabaki Rig and head over to the fishing guild in Port Windurst. Fish off the pier there and yank up Bastore Sardines 1-3 at a time YEEE HAW. These suckers will take you to a skill LVL of 9 you can chop them up to start your cooking career or hang onto them for later use. the choice is yours. AT skill LVL 8 make sure to hit the guild for your first promotion.

Skill 8-11
Moat carp's galore. If you have a LVL 29+ in cooking now would be a perfect time to use it. Earth Crystal Millionear Corn, Little Worm, Distilled Water. Insect paste, I suggest using Carbon or Glass Fiber rods. You can sell off the moat carps or turn them in for Lu Shangs. You should make a pretty good profit during this time. Use the money made during this stage and invest in fishing clothes, they make a difference.

Skill 11-20
Copper frogs my ass. Head down into Para mines and half the time you will catch monsters for no gains and the other half the time you will find yourself with nothing on the end of your pole. Fishing for Copper Frogs just plain put my ass to sleep. I swear folks it will knock and insomnic out. Instead grab yourself a Glass Fiber rod head to East Ronfare and use a fly lure. Pulling in Salmon/Shining trout you will be LVL 20 in no time flat. The fish East Ronfare river can snap your Glass pole and on occasion your line will snap. This is one of the fastest LVLin in fishing I have done to date, didn't wanna sleep it was that fun ;) AT LVL 18 you are do another promotion take one of your salmon to windurst with ya when ya head back to promote. You can stick around till ya hit 20 you will cap at 20 without your LVL 18 promotion so it's all good.

Skill 20-30
Ok if you wanna catch Catfish. Well damn I will ask those that skilled on catfish. Was I doing something wrong here? I catch at MOST 4 Giant Catfish a day trying the West Saruta Moat Composite/Sinking Minnow. I was seriously dying there, fell outta my computer chair twice because of shear bordem. Let the money FLOW. INSECT PASTE/Carbon Rods (take 2 one for a back up) Head to Jugar Forest head to the lake use nothing but insect paste. OMG this lake is OFF THE HOOK. Even with a crappy moon you are going to get a bite almost every toss. I can't brag enough about this lake so lemme give some pointers. Don't forget your promotion at LVL 28 Giant Catfish is needed.

The lake in Jugar Forest is a gold mine for fishing skill LVLing. THe entire carp family lives in the lake (don't fish the river BTW) Tricolor Carp will take your fishing skill to 27 (these guys have a chance to snap your rod) The sell for 103 gil per fish in Jeuno to the NPC's didn't bother collecting and giving them in to the guild in windurst. Dark Bass will skill you up to LVL 33 (these have a chance to snap your rod). Dark bass sold for 40 gil a pop in Jeuno to the NPC's. Moat Carp bite here also, no skill gain great to sell or turn in for Lu Shangs these fellas will not break your rod. Gold Carp also bite here, they are rare, will skill to LVL 56 so dont expect gains (these have a chance to snap your rod) they are worth 600 gil to the NPC's in Jeuno. And last but not least by any means the ol Rusty Cap (these have a chance to snap your rod). Folks first time to the Lake O Gil I caught 5 of them and threw them away... caught a 6th and headed to Jeuno with it and hit the sell button and saw the man offer 2,596 gil I was kicking myself for bout 10 minutes straight and a steady flow of profanity flowed from my lips. DO NOT THROW THEM AWAY! LOL No skill gains but they will pay for your broken rods in a hurry. WHEN you break rods in this lake, shake it off folks, sell broken rods back on the AH and pick up some more. It shouldn't happen that often but it will happen, expect it. Because of monsters caught on this lake I suggest being LVL 45+ to fish in the area. If not be prepare to die some. You will pull up Pugils/Crabs and Leeches but not very often.

Skill 20-30 Alternate
There is an alternate route to 30 using those Crayfish you caught at the early LVL's. If you have a umm..46+ in cooking you can make Crayfish Paste best way to skill your cooking from 46-51 BTW :) Earth, 3 Crayfish, San Doria Flour, Distilled Water. Used on the Selbina-Muhara Ferry you can catch Nebomnites which sell REALLY well. They are used to make Black ink used in many of the Ninjitsu tools. They are also used in Fish Kabobs as well and a few other things. These will net you some nice cash, you wanna burn off some Crayfish paste this is a good way to do it.

Skill 30-40
Sliced Sardines on the coastline in Eastern Sarutabaruta is the place to be. This is the point at which you are gonna want to use those Composite/Mythian Rods. The bling bling at this stage will start to flow really well. If ya need bait fish up some Bastore Sardines! Chop um up! You will Catch Gold Lobster / Bluetail/ Bream in this area. The Bream like to snap rods. You can keep the Bluetail if you want for bait at later LVL's.

My skill is currently LVL 32 and rising fairly quickly and the money is good. Welp time for me to hit the sack. Good luck fellas. Hope to see ya on the ferry sometime soon!

Events for Skill Gains...the working Hypothesis

For now I won't call it so much of a law, but more of a working progress. Although I do not like to get technical because things like this tend to give people headaches, so I will try to keep it simple. Again for the record this is my thoughts, I didn't read this off any message board or buy it off ebay. This is data collected from what I have experianced thus far.

For starters for these "rules" to be in effect you must be fishing for fish appropriate to your LVL. 5 LVLs to 10 LVLs from your current skill. This is the prime target which you should attempt to stay in. Anything more/less skill gains come slower and if you try to fish too high above your skill you will get no gains just like fishing for fish below your lvl. The approximations are based on a single point of fishing skill between LVLs 1-50. I haven't had the chance to test fishing gains above LVL 50 but due to the fact that other trade skills slow down after LVL 50 I am lead to believe Fishing will follow the same basic set of rules. OK on to the meat of it!

Fishing skill 0.0 - 0.8
During this time is when it is most possible to make successful skill gains if you get a "Something caught the hook!" during this time. "Something caught the hook!" rate for this time to gain skill is approximately 5% + any additional "Bonus events that raise"

Fishing skill 0.8 - 1.0
During this time "Something caught the hook!" are reduced dramatically. By dramatically I mean by as much as 80% of normal skill gain rates. "Something caught the hook!" rate for this time to gain skill is approximately 1% + any additional "Bonus events that raise"

Bonus events that raise:

The following is a list of events in fishing that I believe give bonuses to raise your skill and the approximate % chance to raise skill.

Your line broke! + 10% chance to raise skill
Your rod broke! + 10% chance to raise skill
You caught <name of fish> + 5% chance to raise skill

Events that do not raise fishing skill:

Rusty Items
Gil
Rings
Monsters
Fish to far above or below current fishing skill.
"You did not catch anything."

That being said, dont be foolish enough to break rods on purpose, it won't work. For instance using bamboo rods to fish out Giant Catfish. The fishing tackle/rod used during skill gains must have a chance to catch the target fish. A small rod designed for small fish will always break (with the exception of Lu Shangs of course ^^ )if you attempt to catch a fish designated "BIG"

I furthermore believe that "organic baits" have a better chance to attract bites versus lures of the appropriate type. For instance Sliced Sardines have a better strike rate for Bluefin as opposed to a Sinking Minnow Lure.

Hope this helps explain a little about fishing and how to gain skill. ^^







Edited, Thu Feb 5 04:05:51 2004 by Wolfsfable

Edited, Jul 18th 2006 at 2:32pm EDT by Wolfsfable
#2 Feb 03 2004 at 5:58 AM Rating: Decent
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What can I say? Another great guide! Wow!

I really wish there was some way I can send you a present cross servers :/

#3 Feb 03 2004 at 6:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Very good post...couple of things i would disagree/extend on with tho:

1) Gold carps will give u skill rises if they bite and even if you dont pull them up, although, granted, this is very rarely, so not very productive.

2) Like the idea of fishing in the lake in jungar....are u sure about the lv 45 thing tho..most of the mobs in there dont seem to be anything harder than lv 20...

3) using a carbon rod from the beginning (if you can afford it) as it will not break very often (I only ever snapped one of these and that was either a pipira or a big ass gold carp in windy... buying a carbon will save you money in the long run and you wont keep breaking bamboo's etc.

4) buy fishing clothes as early as you can afford them...THEY HELP! They are even worth it at lv 1 as they will help pull in more crayfish (although of course you would need to be fairly well off to do that, i fished for hours to be able to afford mine!)

5) If your rich, hand in moat carps and get a rod, in the long run its an advantage, if ur skkint like me, sell the moat carp in the AH for 4k per stack...ka ching :D and buy/earn the rod later when u can use a rogue rig effectivly.

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#4 Feb 03 2004 at 6:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Wow very nice lots of info here good work. if anyone wants to add 30+ please do
#5 Feb 03 2004 at 7:07 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
2) Like the idea of fishing in the lake in jungar....are u sure about the lv 45 thing tho..most of the mobs in there dont seem to be anything harder than lv 20...


Like he said, it's the monsters caught in the lake that are the problem.


Quote:
5) If your rich, hand in moat carps and get a rod, in the long run its an advantage, if ur skkint like me, sell the moat carp in the AH for 4k per stack...ka ching :D and buy/earn the rod later when u can use a rogue rig effectivly.


I really wouldn't worry about the Lu Shang's rod for awhile, certainly not while you're still lvling the skill at 8-11 on moat carp. It would be much easier to fish for moat carp for the Lu Shang's rod when you're 50+ and can use the rogue rig to catch multiple moat carp (for free too).

#6 Feb 03 2004 at 7:28 AM Rating: Good
22 posts
It's a decent guide but there are still some falsehoods in it.

Personally I agree that using rods that will break will cause faster skillgain, but you don't want to be doing that when using lures instead of bait.

Glass Fiber + Fly Lure + East Ronfaure can break your Glass Fiber rod. Personally I've even broken my Mithran on these suckers. (Only Composite is safe here). If you can afford it just go for it though.

Palborough Mines is ill suited for fishing, Zeruhn Mines River -is- however a great place to fish, but you have to start at level 5 and sod off again at 8 or 9. You will not catch monsters here. The Zeruhn Mines River is the bridge that leads to Korroloka. You'll catch a lot of [07] Crayfish and [11] Moat arp, but there's a chance to get stronger fish like [27] Tricolored Carp and [47] Black Eel and some rusties.

In the long run you will start breaking rods anyway because there simply isn't an alternative. A good idea wood be to gain skill in woodworking -- You WILL need it later on when going after the [60]+ fishes. Anyone that spends some time on the Ferry will see high level players snapping Lu Shangs like no tomorrow. You have to keep in mind that you -cannot- lose a wooden rod when you fail a Ligth Crystal repair synth, so you don't have to be afraid of permanently losing that 25K mithran rod (if you bought it at the guild).

Other very important notes:
- You CAN gain skill when a fish is lost due to it being to small
- You CAN gain skill when you lost a catch when reeling it in
- You CANNOT gain skill when you lost a catch when NOT realing it in
- You CAN gain skill for catching fish even more than 50 levels above you, maybe even more than that.

Keep the following in mind:
- Try to catch fish between 7 and 10 levels above your current level for the fastest gain
- A succesful catch will gain you skill faster than a lost catch. If you aim too high you will lose too much and not gain skill as quickly
- If you don't have the cash to replace / repair broken rods go for the cheap and safe route. Use non-breaking rods and use lures instead of bait. www.fishermanrods.net/database_e.cfm is your friend.
- If you have the cash OR the woodworking skill -- break away and gain skill like no tomorrow.
- Don't hand in Moat Carps ~ sell them at the Auction House. If you're serious about getting Lu Shang, start mass moat fishing when you reach fishing skill 30+ or 23+ and full fishing gear and advanced image support. By that time you're probably able to access the more suited areas as well anyway and have plenty of Gobbiebag room to store all those stacks.

There are still better areas to fish than provided in Wolfsfable's post but I'm still busy doing the math for about half of the areas. (There are too many options for my database to calculate it all for me, so doing most of it by hand, area by area -_-)

Also, for those who area actually trying to catch Rusty items for NIN quests, make sure you fish on Firesday. Less fish means more junk.
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#7 Feb 03 2004 at 7:31 AM Rating: Decent
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I am lvl 48.. and I am clueless as to where to to go from here.
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#8 Feb 03 2004 at 9:37 AM Rating: Default
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A few mistakes in your guide

Firstly you dont need to join the guild until lvl10

Tricolored carps dont break carbons rusty items do

Logs break rods in east ron thats why you use a comp

Catfish only bite at night

Trying to lvl off nebs is silly cos they are a rare bite

And dont use a mithran with sliced sardines it will break
#9 Feb 03 2004 at 10:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Quick Question, can fishing sustain and make plenty fo money to fund say a thf's equipment if I wanted to spend money on +1 items etc?

I am reluctant to level because I dont like not having up to date or the best equipment possible so I am looking at some form of crafting to get me to a spot I can comfortably enjoy my leveling instead of worrying about how I will come up with enough cash to buy armor upgrades.

Any advice? My fishing is already 5.
#10 Feb 03 2004 at 11:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Awesome guide Wolfsfable! I'm all over it! Thanks for the input. My goal is to get my Fishing skill high enough to catch Nebomites and start making Ink.

And yes, I agree, fishing gear makes a difference. Bite the bullet and just buy all 4 pieces. Once you have it, it ain't going anywhere and it will pay for itself.


Edited, Wed May 19 12:50:46 2004 by Pullo
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#11 Feb 03 2004 at 11:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Wolf, you are a marvel.
#12 Feb 03 2004 at 12:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Oh my God! You killed Fishing! You bastard!

{Note: The above is intended as humour.}
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#13 Feb 03 2004 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
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Yes the Salmon and Shining Trout WILL snap glass rods, I stand corrected. Failing to reel in a catch "You lost your catch!" Has skilled me up quite a few times, but I seem to skill more times on a successful catch.

The mobs you yank outta the lake in Jugnar, most of them are low LVL. It's those off times you hafta watch out for. For instance sometimes you will catch a Spring Pugil and other times you will catch a Feriocious Pugil....ouch. Thread Leech sometimes a Huge Leech ouch...Stag crag sometimes a Coral Crab...ouch.

You can tell when you catch a monster, if you watch your "Spidy sense" as I like to call it. When you get a bite from a fish the explosion of little sparks out of your head will be fairly small. When you hook a monster they tend to flare out REAL big, it is a distenct difference. If you catch a monster the game will not allow you to cancel you fishing, HAHAH SE you sneaky bastards. Instead I usually just refuse to real the damn thing in if you dont wanna mess with it.

If you are still confused about what I am saying keep an eye on your "Spidy sense" while fishing in the lake in Jugnar. You will catch on pretty quick. ^^

Wow a 48 man I wish I was there. Congrats. 51 is Rogues rig, time for you to get Lu Shangs at that point. I hear the best place at that LVL is the Ferry using sliced bluetail for Marlin. But I am not at that LVL so I cannot confirm yet. ^^

Edited, Tue Feb 3 13:30:54 2004 by Wolfsfable
#14 Feb 03 2004 at 1:26 PM Rating: Decent
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I just want to update my experience with going from Copper Frogs to Cheval Salmon as wolf suggested. I've done about 10 hours of Copper Frogging, and now 10 hours of Salmon fishing. Personally, i don't see a difference in skill points gain, they seem to be pretty much the same. If there is a difference, it's certainly out of my observation. What i have noticed though, in all my time going for frogs, i never once broke a line and lost a lure. In my equal time at salmon fishing, i have lost 4 lures so far. The lures are dirt cheap, so it's not that big of a problem for me, but for others, this may be a contributing decision.

Gil wise, i sell both copper frogs and the salmon to the merchants, so there really isn't a difference here either. The Shining Trout i've been saving, since i think those will sell decently at the AH (1k gil maybe?).
#15 Feb 03 2004 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
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3 reasons I prefer E. Ronfare over copper frogs.

1) No rusty epuipment is found the rivers.

2) You will not catch any monsters in E. Ronfare.

3) More bites per hour vs the mines.

These 3 equal faster skill gains, it's simple logic.

Its up to you though, copper frogs will skill you to 16 but in my experiance...snore...
#16 Feb 03 2004 at 1:50 PM Rating: Default
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Well you're right on the rusty, i do get them, but not too often, and they don't bother me, i either drop them, sell them to merchants (buckets), or AH (subligers).

As for monsters, i'm not sure where you were fishing, but i didn't once get a single monster from Bastok mines or Zehrun bridge.

And for skill increases, like i said, i didn't see a difference. Maybe others will, but i didn't. Don't take it personally, i'm just telling others what my experience was.
#17 Feb 03 2004 at 2:06 PM Rating: Good
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Im talking about the Parabohla mines, it has been mentioned a couple times on this board as best place to catch copper frogs. Monsters there are rampant. Dunno about the Bastok mines or the bridges, first time I have heard of this.

As for criticizm, I take it well. I have been know to be wrong from time to time ;) But at LVL 11 after fishign Copper Frogs in the Para mines for 12 hours with .4 skill gain I never wanted to look at another copper frog again. *twiches*
#18 Feb 03 2004 at 3:18 PM Rating: Default
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It could be the Palborough that's the problem. At any time, i see 4-5 people fishing in Bastok Mines (sometimes it's funny seeing the amount of people fishing around this little stream of sewer water), and 2-3 in Zehrun over the bridge, so it is a very popular area.

Anyways, now that my skill is 16, i'm starting to see a lot more increases on the Salmon, but that could be due to the moon too. It's Waxing Gibbous (79%) at the moment, so this could be a factor. I'm staying here though, since the frogs are definitely not good now at these levels.
#19 Feb 03 2004 at 4:18 PM Rating: Decent
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A comment on the jugner fishing. There is a part of the zone only 20 feet from a zone on the lake. Travel through ransperre's tomb and you arrive in jugner in a small section of the lake. You cannot leave except by going back through ransperre's.
#20 Feb 03 2004 at 6:17 PM Rating: Good
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LOL @ Kakita! ^^

Awesome guide Wolfstable! I've been stuck at 12 trying to up my skill in Port San on tri-colored carp. Boy does that suck. ; ;

I have a Mithran, will this give me problems if I don't use the rods you all are suggesting?
#21 Feb 03 2004 at 7:41 PM Rating: Default
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Well, Copper Frogs are a really bad thing to go skilling up for really. Personally I've never caught a Copper Frog in Palborough ~ Fishermanrods also confirms that there are only Crayfish in Pal, but I know that their database isn't 100% accurate.

When fishing in Zeruhn you can single out copper frogs by using Fly Lure, but this is still bad skillgaining as you will only be able to catch 1 fish that enables skillgain and 2 rusty items. (I suspect the calculations are not as crude as this, but let's say a rough 1 out of 3). There are wat better odds out there.
Copper Frogs are overrated, though I still see many fishing for them.

I admire all the fishermen out there that already got that far. I know how tough it can be to fish at the proper locations, going for the proper fish, catching several stacks of them and gaining very little skill. It's not all random, but it still involved a lot of luck, and I seem to have a lot of these no-gain sessions whilst doing the exact same spot/rod/bait the next day under the same moon, catching the same amount of fish and gaining skill like crazy. (I wish you could just get fishing XP per fish like with normal levels. That way gaining would be much more constant.)

East Ronfaure unfortunately does have junk items. I've personally caught plenty Rusty Buckets, Subligars and Copper Rings. Supposedly you can also catch Arrowwood Log in ERonf but never succeeded in doing so.

On a sidenote, Wolfsfable's Cooking Guide has almost doubled the prices of AH Sardines on our server ;) Whereas you used to be able to grab stacks for 450 gil they go up to 800 now, and sometimes even more. I can't seem to find a vendor or guildshop that sold them for the 50-ish gil, they're still a bit over 100 at the guild and I have quite a decent amount of fame Ranking. Wanna go with the Zerg? Whip out your Sabiki Rig and sell of those Sardines while fishing for Yellow Globes and Quus. Suppose Sardines will grow out to become the Poor Man's Moat Carp?

I personally avoid the areas with Monster catches. You can easily check if an area has catchable monsters by using Alla's Bestiary > By Area section. Any monsters in blue font is a monster you can catch by fishing. No blue names == monster catch free area.

A lot of people just grab a rod and a bait that is capable of catching the fish you want for your next closest skill level. The real trick to gaining skill is finding a combination that:

A. Preferably doesn't break your rod
B. Fishable in an area with as little Junk Items as possible
C. Eliminating the chance to catch lesser (trivial) fish
D. Catches as many fish possible in the range +7 to +10 of your current level

As posted in How a Bastokian fisherman can succeed ?
I already crossreferenced the Gustaberg / Bastok areas. I know it's the extremely scientific approach, but the data I've gathered has been extremely useful to me for rapid skillgaining. As promised, this guide will get published, but I'd rather not do so till I've covered every single area.

As for financing gear with fishing, I personally feel that fish aren't really worth much till past skill level 25. I think that catching Moat Carp for gil isn't really a great option either as in the same time you can gain dropped gil, farm items and crystals and get experience and conquest points at the same time. By the time your fishing skill reaches the "profitable" levels your THF is long since past level 15 allowing easier farming.

My advice: Go fish for the act of fishing and gaining skill in the craft. If you do manage to make a little profit out of fishing you should invest it (as already suggested earlier in this thread) in fishing gear, and after you got your basic setup, invest the time and money in the skills that supplement fishing; cooking and woodworking. Maybe we can gather enough info for a "So you wanna be a Woodworker eh?" guide, so the circle completes ;)

Just my 2 gil
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#22 Feb 03 2004 at 8:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Lv 57 fishing here and just putting my input.

I still fish moat carp for gils. I've tried nebimonites but they sell kinda slow for my taste. Emperor Fish might be nice if I ever get to that level. I catch more or less the same amount of moat carp I was catching with 20ish in fishing skill..perhaps slightly more because of the 1 second taken off between casting at each fishing skill rank, but I don't think this has mage a huge difference. Fishing is cool because it's a low intensity activy you can do while watching tv.

One last thing. DON'T LOWER MOAT CARP PRICES. They'll sell mostly overnight when you're sleeping the the japanese players come to buy them up. I've gone to sleep in the evening with 150+ moat carp at the AH and when I wake up, less than 20 left.

^^
#23 Feb 03 2004 at 9:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Am I doing something wrong? I fished for 3 hours last night in N. Sandoria using Carbon/Little worms (with fisherman's tunic) and gained about .8 in the first 20 minutes, then only .1 for the next two hours and forty minutes. Today I read this guide, went to Bastok, bought fisherman's gloves and boots, bamboo rods, and little worms. I went to the sewers in Bastok Mines and fished for an hour and a half, and only gained .2 skill and pulled up about 18 crayfish.

Edit: One more thing. While I was sleeping a jp player came up, examined my bazaar, and then shouted five lines of kanji/kana at me (lots of exclamation points). I didn't have anything unreasonably priced, so I don't think that was it. The english letters GM were in his text, so I don't know what he was talking about. It occurs to me that someone else had already bought my moat carp (is 300 good on Ifrit? They sold to the same person, so I might raise the price to 330 tonight.), so he wasn't complaining about that. Do jps dislike when people run bazaars overnight? Did he think I was a bot? (I was sleeping, so I obviously wasn't fishing). I can't figure it out.

Edited, Wed Feb 4 02:44:22 2004 by scriptkeeper
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#24 Feb 04 2004 at 1:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Probably thought you were a bot
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#25 Feb 04 2004 at 3:25 AM Rating: Decent
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LIER!!!!!

you can catch nasty nasty lv 1 pugils in E.Ron...those can be nasty to a lv .5 trying to lv fishing :P

anyway i know what u mean :)

also thanks for the advice about "spidy sence" ill have to look into that further...

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In life I annointed you,
In death I praised you,
In dark times I thought of you,
In the light I helped you,
For eternity you betrayed me.

Vengeance:
Retired: Lv 62 DRK
Current: Lv 67 NIN

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#26 Feb 04 2004 at 4:32 AM Rating: Good
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Added some info to the end of the guide, have a look see fellas. Maybe it will help explain a little more, of how I believe you get skill gains in fishing.
#27 Feb 04 2004 at 6:08 AM Rating: Default
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For all those flavour of the month idiots who think fishing is the way to get rich quick it isnt.

Fishing is 20 times slower to level up if not more than other crafts.

Moat carp is the main money winner for a long time and with more people fishing the prices will drop.

If you just want to make gil then lvl a thief to 15 or higher.

If you want to spend hundreds of hours clicking alt+1 and enter as well as getting woodworking to a very high level and cooking to a moderate lvl then become a fisherman.
#28 Feb 04 2004 at 8:37 AM Rating: Default
22 posts
I have to once again disagree with your thesis -_-; The number or nibbles has very little (and I might be as bold to say none whatsoever) influence on your current skill level. Nibbles are a lot more dependant on the time if day, the lunar cycle, current day and weather effect.

Best times to fish are during Dusk and Dawn. Night is okay. Day sucks. Better time = more nibbles.

Full Moon and New Moon causes more nibbles.

(The people of the fishing guild even tell you to pay attention to these)

Waterday increases nibbles, as does rainfall. Fireday decreases nibbles and causes more Rusty catches.

Rainfall causes a surge in the number of nibbles. Unfortunately it cannot rain everywhere. I assume Heat causes less nibbles as well, but since I'm not aiming to get less catches I haven't tried fishing in these areas. (Valkurm and areas in Elshimo get Heat).

You can gain skill from fish that are high above your skill level. I've gained rapid skill from 13 to 16 by catching fish that were 28 levels above me ~ and higher (@lev13 catching Gugru Tuna and Bluetails on the ferry -- ill advised to do so, your precious Mithran or Composite can break). If you -really- are not capable of gaining skill from a fish it will say "You have lost your catch due to your lack of skill".

If your hypothesis on rodbreaking is correct it would mean that wasting Clothespoles or Carbons with Troutballs for those Catfish would be a viable skillgain option. I can't however confirm or deny if actual rodbreaking does increase the chance to skillgain as with my guides I've focussed on Rod Safe Fishing. If it is however true, there might even be an increased chance of skillgain if there is a -possibility- of breaking your rod and that actually breaking it adds another bonus. (This would explain the fast skillgain I myself and other Ferry fishers have gotten).

I used to think that one-use bait was better than reusable lures, but I'm not sure anymore. Bait usually attracts more -different- kinds of fish, which means more chance due to more options. In general you want to avoid catching the trivial fish however (except Moats), which means picking a different bait/lure more suited to catching the fish of skill you're aiming for instead. My current experiences are that there's actually little difference between the two. The only exception to this rule is the Rogue Rig, which seems to have a big catching penalty.
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#29 Feb 04 2004 at 10:42 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm prepared to sink a lot of time into this.

I decided that things weren't working out in the Bastok Sewers, so I hawked my bamboo rods and little worms and hopped a chocobo to Windurst. I got there at midnight on a full moon, joined the guild, got image support, and donned my full fishing gear. Within an hour, I'd caught about 13 Bastore Sardines, 9 Quus, and got my skill up to 2.8.

Woo! Things are looking up!

I also figured out the JP player deal. Seems there was a GM in the area, and he was telling people to come see. I also dared my roommate to slap a GM. That would make you such a legend! Think about it. If anyone sees a GM, they run around telling their friends anyway. Imagine if someone ran up and SLAPPED a GM!

Edited, Wed Feb 4 10:50:58 2004 by scriptkeeper
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#30 Feb 04 2004 at 12:08 PM Rating: Good
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"I have to once again disagree with your thesis -_-; The number or nibbles has very little (and I might be as bold to say none whatsoever) influence on your current skill level. Nibbles are a lot more dependant on the time if day, the lunar cycle, current day and weather effect."



You are intitled to your opiinion. My hypothosis about skill gains has nothing to do on WHY or when fish bite though.

There is a numbers game behind gaining skill at fishing, nothing in the computer world is truly random. And although fishing is about "luck" one way or another, if you fish long enough you will get gains no matter how "bad" your luck it.

You make your "rolls" when you fish it is very possible to get a full point in 10 mins or it can take 2 hours.

People ask how you get skill gains in fishign break it down for them in a simple easy to understand statement. You get too complicated people get bored half way down the page and throw in the towel.

My theory explains why I believe it is best to fish with the appropriate rods vs your LVL and what you are fishing. For instance....

If someome takes a composite pole and goes fishing for a moat carp...(with a skill under 11)

If he/she gets a bite but lets say they lose the catch because the fish was too small. If they are .2 from the next full point of fishing they roughly have a 1% chance to gain skill at fishing. If they have less than .8 to the next full point they have roughly a 5% chance to gain skill in fishing. So they get a bite and the game makes it "rolls" in the mathmatical equation used to determine rather or not the person recieves a skill gain.

Now you can increase your luck by fishing with the appropriate rod. Lets say another fisherman uses a Carbon rod to fish for moat carps. Lets say he gets a bite from a carp. He has the same base chance to recieve a skill gain as the fellow with the composite. But instead of losing the carp becuase the fish was to small lets say he lands it successfully. He/she will get roguhly a +5% chance to gain skill in fishing. (1-5% base + 5% for catching the fish)

Overtime a person taking chances and using appropriate equipment will in theory gain skill faster than a person "playing it safe"

So use the small rods for small fish folks, don't be scared, it's a natural part of the LVLin process. Your skill gains will be faster because of it. Not to mention the fish you catch as oppossed to those you lose for "too small" messages will more than pay for your lost rods.
#31 Feb 04 2004 at 2:33 PM Rating: Default
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The equipment theory makes sense, the "correct" rod probably can effect the rate of skill gain. However, the %'s offered in the guide for skill gain appear to be completely arbitrary.

Oh and in Sarutabaruta the fish is called Bastore Bream, not Brine.
#32 Feb 04 2004 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Thank you so much Wolf,
I have been fishing since i started the game but was content on fishing for moat carp and yellowglobes(alchemy lvling right now)only, i decided yesterday while fishing for 8 hours (skill went up to 12 in the 8hr span, from 11) that i was going to start concentrating on the places to fish and actually skillup from now on.. i get on the forum for the first time in a week or so and BAM a awesome guide that was just what i wanted.
Well in 2 weeks i should have hit 40+ or higher (hopefully) ^_^

You rock wolf again, thanks for all the awesome guides.

If i had the money to powerlvl alchemy or woodworking i would write a definitive guide along the lines of yours.


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#33 Feb 04 2004 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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so sry T_T

dblPOST

Edited, Wed Feb 4 21:25:38 2004 by smOkt
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#34 Feb 05 2004 at 1:52 AM Rating: Default
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You're right on the Giant Catfish... i've caught 40 of them so far, and i haven't gotten even a single skill point up. Not even 0.1. I don't know what's going on, but im' heading to Jugner tomorrow like you suggested.
#35 Feb 05 2004 at 2:00 AM Rating: Default
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I just read your 'event hypothesis' and i have to ask, where the hell are you getting these numbers from?! Are you having so many rods and line breaking that you're able to record them and find whether there are any statistical significances? I'm assuming you would need literally a record of thousands to be able to differentiate between a standard deviation and statistic significance of 5% that you claim.

Just because you're sharing how you've leveled in a skill doesn't give you any validity in making these outrageous claims.

#36 Feb 05 2004 at 2:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Where can I catch Pipira? What Rod / Bait works best?
#37 Feb 05 2004 at 3:53 AM Rating: Good
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I love words like outrageous claims and arbitrary. Prehaps you guys should pick up a dictionary sometime and read the definition of a Hypothesis.

For the past 3 weeks I have used what I consider appropriate equipment for skill gaining. In that time I have broken my fair share of rods and lines. When writing a guide I keep a complete record of events that happen when I find something suspisous about it.

For instance I fish for 2 hours to gain the final .1 to next fishing LVL, I snap a rod and instantly gain a .2 and my skill. So I started tracking it.

My estimates are conservative if anything. The worst run I have had to date is 10 line breaks to a skill gain. So I simply take the 100% fiqure and divide it by 10 and well simply get 10%. Instead of bashing it or claiming it to be "outrageous" perhaps you should do your part and seek to disprove or backup such statements. While you are LVLing at the lake keep track of line breaks and rod breaks and note how many times you gain skill during such an event. To do so you will hafta lay down your Composite Rod if you are doing like just about everyone else and use Carbon as I suggest.

Fishing gear has an optimum LVL for usage. Items such as the Rouge's Rig requires a LVL 51 to use and at this LVL will catch Moat carps in 3's. But hay, it's ultimately your choice if you wanna use a composite rod and fish with a skill LVL of 11 for moat carps one at a time knock yourself out. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to accept my guide as the end-all be-all of fishing guides.

Do yourself a favor, don't be a troll and simply come here and claim my fiqures are "outrageous" or "arbitrary" just because your Primus Guide or guide you bought off ebay doesn't mention anything about it. Test it and add to the pool of knowledge, it's what all the great scientists do. Hypothesis >>> Theory >>> Law

Edited, Thu Feb 5 04:17:25 2004 by Wolfsfable
#38 Feb 05 2004 at 4:15 AM Rating: Good
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Ganthrinor sorry m8 havent fished much for pirana. I hear they love to break poles. But I have also heard they like minnows and meatballs and they like to hang out in Windurst Woods or Walls. GL man!
#39 Feb 05 2004 at 4:52 AM Rating: Decent
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What macros do you use for fishing?
#40 Feb 05 2004 at 5:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Wolfsable: That's great man... I finally got my fishing to 6, but I don't think I spend near the time you do at it. Honestly, I've levelled everything off of moat carp so far ^^

But sardines.... hmmmmm...

Any idea how often a glass fiber rod and sabiki rig would lose me the rig or rod trying them for Sardines at skill level 6?

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#41 Feb 05 2004 at 9:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Just my $0.02 worth, but here goes.

If this is going to be your tradeskill, your first major purchase should be a composite rod. It runs about 8-9k at my AH, but it's worth it. Get a carbon rod too if you can afford it, but you can get by just fine on a composite.

Target fish that are 10 to 15 points above your skill level. Moat carp are fine to start with, but they skill out at 11. Once you hit 8 or so buy a Fly Lure and head to East Ron for Cheval Salmon and Shining Trout.

Once you hit Fishing 15, head to West Ron or Port San with a Sinking Minnow Lure and go for Giant Catfish. These catfish will take you into your mid 20s, and sell to any vendor for about 200g each. If you're in Port San, there's a vendor who will buy them in the Rusty Anchor Inn right there in the port.

At this point, you should start weaning off the moat carp as your source of income. They are small-time, you can do better.

Once you're in your mid 20's, take your composite rod and sinking minnow and head over to windhurst. If you take the ferry out of selbina, go ahead and grab a few extra sinking minnow lures from the shop on the boat. Head out to the cliffs in West Sara. You'll be after Orge Eels and if you get lucky a few Gold Lobsters. This should drag you up into your early 30s, which is where I am now.

Here, I've been switching out between the cliffs in W Sara and the lake in E Sara. I get more skill raises at the cliffs, but if I need fast cash I pull monkie-onkies out of the lake. Btw, if you use W Sara, you can zone right into Port Windhurst where the fishers guild is located. If you use E Sara, you got to run all the way across windy woods and most of the way across windy port to get to th fisher guildshop.

By this point your Moat Carp days should be a distant memory, they're a waste of time from here on out.
Moat Carp=3-4k/stack, or 250-333/fish. Lobster=400+/fish, Monkie-onkies=800+/fish. Oh, and in Windhurst, Giant catfish sell for 300/fish instead of the 200/fish I got in Sandoria.

I'm not sure what I'll do after this. I'll probably skill-up on the cliff until the I get above 35, then Monkies until 45. I'll let you know though.

Here's a couple tools that'll make life easier:

BlackenedForge has an excellent guide listing fish by location and lure. http://www.blackenedforge.com/fishing/

The Osakana Database. Lists fish, bait, location, and if your rod will break. http://www.fishermanrods.net/database_e.cfm

The fishing database at ffvault.ign.com (which for some reason is down this morning). Gives you a list of fish, their skill level, and approx sale price to the Fisher guildshops.

Good luck.
#42 Feb 05 2004 at 10:09 AM Rating: Default
39 posts
Quote:
While you are LVLing at the lake keep track of line breaks and rod breaks and note how many times you gain skill during such an event. To do so you will hafta lay down your Composite Rod if you are doing like just about everyone else and use Carbon as I suggest.


First, I do believe there is such a thing as appropriate gear for a fishing level, and that gear can affect catch rate and skill gain. However, I do not believe your numbers. I have 55.4 fishing, and do not have anywhere near the same results as you have. 1% and .5% are very high numbers. I have recorded my results in batches of 500 and my numbers are closer to .01%.

I think you are placing way too much emphasis on "skill gain by line breaking" or whatever it is you're advocating instead of "skill gain by whats on the other end of the line".

I am not trolling, I am simply disagreeing with you. A great scientist can accept that the results from one single series of tests may be abnormal.

Quote:
Items such as the Rouge's Rig requires a LVL 51 to use and at this LVL will catch Moat carps in 3's. But hay, it's ultimately your choice if you wanna use a composite rod and fish with a skill LVL of 11 for moat carps one at a time knock yourself out. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to accept my guide as the end-all be-all of fishing guides.


Have you tested this? Where did this come from? I have tested this and my results are in another thread. This statement about the Rogue Rig is not true.

Fishing is complicated. There are probably a dozen variables and numbers that we can only guess at. I applaud any attempt at trying to figure out the numbers, but I will view them skeptically.

Edited, Thu Feb 5 10:41:56 2004 by HappyGrifter
#43 Feb 05 2004 at 11:04 AM Rating: Good
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Test it and add to the pool of knowledge, it's what all the great scientists do. Hypothesis >>> Theory >>> Law


Great scientists do not go from step 1 to steps 2 or 3 without having the claim verified by multiple sources. Only when it is consistently replicable by other people is it accepted.

It is up to the scientist presenting the hypothesis to make sure these verifications are carried out. Why? Because anyone can come out and present a hypothesis as fact. I can come out and say I got 60 fishing skill on bamboo rods and lugworms in Bastok. Does that mean I can demand my hypothesis be accepted as true until someone fishes for a few hundred hours with a bamboo pole and lugworms to disprove me? I doubt such a system would work very well.

If you want to be truly scientific about it, you would have had to post hard numbers. How many total casts? How many of each result? How many skill gains on each of those results?

The problem is, going by trends a person observes without numerical data presents the problem of 1) when you're looking for a trend, you tend to see things that may just be statistical anomolies and not realize it and 2) when a person develops a hypothesis, the same person performing the experiment is usually more concerned with proving his hypothesis than looking at the data objectively (bias).

These mistakes happen in the the actual scientific community, so don't claim it couldn't happen in a far less controlled environment.

If you truly want to further fishing knowledge out there, provide solid raw data and ask other people to assist in verifying claims on an objective level.

#44 Feb 05 2004 at 3:16 PM Rating: Good
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I will not ask people to crunch my data to prove my Hypothesis and AGAIN I state that it is what I have oberserved. On more than serveral occassions I have gained skill using the methods I have posted. It's not a whim or a fulk I can assure you. Try it instead of bashing.

It's not sepecific, I will not sit here and post every single piece of data I have collected over the past weeks of fishing. I will post what I believe to be true. These numbers are already compiled, you can accept them and use them during your fishing gains or you can move along.

Reading Comprehension is severly lacking in some peoples posts and the numbers they toss out are just plain STUPID.

Lets take Happy's number for instance...

He states his figure more along the lines of .01% Thanks Happy I have not laughed that hard in a long time. I sure am glad you are not in charge at SE. You number of .01% suggests that you have a 1/10,000 chance to gain skill if you get a bite message. If this figure was even REMOTELY possible we would all have Lu Shangs before we even reach LVL 1 in fishing. Nice one dumbass.

I will not bore the class with worthless information. The numbers have have come up with have been compiled. So when you are skilling up take note how many bites it takes to get .1-.2 in fishing. My numbers suggest 5/100 and 1/100 chance depending on where your skill lies. Those number hold water thus far 33 Fishing Skill. Or you can be a dumbass like the rest of the folks that don't seem to know what a Hypothesis is. The word MEANS for you to test it. I want you too PLEASE TEST IT. And on the same token take your ass elsewhere if you wanna troll or come here and try to tell me I am full of sh*t without presenting facts or numbers to back it up.

Move along trolls nothing to see here.


Edited, Thu Feb 5 15:25:59 2004 by Wolfsfable
#45 Feb 05 2004 at 4:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Wolfsfable, take a deep breath, you seem to be getting worked up... if I am wrong, sorry.

Like the excellent job you did on the cooking guide, you did a good job here... are their holes in the guide? Sure, but overall it's a great guide. My example (tied to the cooking guide) has to do with the steps... Carrot Broth to Sliced Sardines did not work as well for me as it did for you... I used Hard Boiled Eggs to bridge the gap from 3 to 6 or 7 (I was in Bostok, no Advanced aid from the guild), but your guide got me from skill 0.0 to 10.5 (so far) because I had some direction to help me plan with.

In other words folks, there are many ways to get from point A to point B here, Wolfsfable has furnished us with a guide that helps, for some (My self included) this guide has helped, but it in no way means this is the only way. Wolfsfable has shown us what worked for him, he lets us know, so we can plan for ourselves.

In my case, I do not care if I get 1 imp in 100 casts or 1 in 20, but that I am at least in the ball park... as an example, I can fish for Sardines, Moat Carp or Crayfish with my fishing skill (2) and not have to wonder why even if I have the great setup I need to catch an "Emperor Fish" that I do not have a snowballs chance in hell of catching one because I know more then I did before I read this guide... I also know that if I plan accordingly, I will someday be reeling in those Emperor Fish... not today and more then likely not tomorrow, but someday.

In accordance with a Statistics Class I took in Collage a few years back, to make numbers more accurate because of the failure to get a complete statistical sample with all required factors, please adjust the samples taken to reflect the unknown variables that are not reported in that sample... (Yes, add error to make the sample say what you want it to thus being more accurate).
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#46 Feb 05 2004 at 5:14 PM Rating: Good
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Hamfast, wot in teh heck is that in your sig?? ahhhh!!


Anyway, back to topic, how did this thread get to be so mathematical? :( My uncle has/had his own fishing show on TV and I don't think he'd be where he is by calculating the % of times he catches fish to the .000 decimal place. Take it easy! While I'd love to be soaring up in fishing skill I still take it as a relaxing game pasttime. I went to Jugner this morning with only 12.8 fishing and came out with 14.2 after only an hour! And I didn't use the recommended rod either. My point is, take a cool down and enjoy yourself more. Wolf's guide is a GUIDE, not a manual.
#47 Feb 05 2004 at 8:13 PM Rating: Default
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Its probably best that you wait until you are an experienced fisherman before writing a guide and making hypotheses.

Because lets face it you are off the mark on a lot of things.

BTW from what i have heard the rogue rig is only good for rusty items but I havent used it yet so I cant confirm anything, just like most people here cant talk about how they will start catching 3 moat carp a cast when they hit lvl51.
#48 Feb 05 2004 at 10:01 PM Rating: Decent
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What are some important fishing marco's? I plan to start up fishing soon. thx.
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#49 Feb 05 2004 at 10:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Man, 30-32 was painful in W Saruta.... But once I hit 32 I landed 4 or 5 fishin a row :) Lvl 40 here I come!
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#50 Feb 05 2004 at 11:22 PM Rating: Good
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Not even gonna start with you Germs, I'll fix your wagon soon enough.

As for macros I have 2 I use for fishing the first one is a simple one:

/fish

The second one will change as you gain promotions in fishing. For each promotion you gain in fishing your recast time is reduced by 1 second. For now this might not seem like a lot but over time, man it really starts to add up.

This macro will be as follows:

/wait 14
/fish

As you get your promotions at the 8's...8,18,28,38,48,58,68,78,88 reduce the wait by one second. Right now mine is currently at a:

/wait 11
/fish

To start fishing face the water in the area you wish to fish in and use the /fish macro. Once you reel in your rod wait for your compass to re-appear and use the /wait macro as soon as it does. It will wait the appropriate time and recast your rod. If you run out of bait or hafta fight a mob you can use the /fish macro to re-start the cycle over again.

GL m8

Edited, Thu Feb 5 23:24:31 2004 by Wolfsfable
#51 Feb 06 2004 at 8:49 AM Rating: Decent
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My fishing macro is pretty similar...

/clock on (gives the time and moon phase information)
/wait 14 (I never bothered going back and changing the delay)
/echo ............
/fish

If I'm using bait instead of a lure, I add this line to the beginning...

/equip ammo "NameOfBait"

This way I don't have to keep track of how long it'll be before I can fish again. I pop the macro to start fishing and as soon as I stop, I can pop the macro again.

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