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[PvE] Warrior DPS - DiscussionFollow

#1 Feb 21 2011 at 6:09 PM Rating: Decent
28 posts
This is for end game PvE for Warrior DPS. Please feel free to discuss.

I have a couple builds that I have been looking at.

The first build is: Paragon/Champion/Paladin (Suspected to do most DPS.)
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0chuk.Vx.Vex0zA0cR.E0cdoobh

Pros:
-Dual Wield DPS: Pick up the Paladin sub class for Small Arms Specialization 10% increased damage with 1 handers.
-Good survival: Touch of Life (100% heal),Defender (10% armor),
-Good movement: If you need to be on the move you can Fleet of Foot. Also have Path of Wind and Path of Tempest for ranged damage. If you need to target swap you have Bull Rush. Have Ruthless Pursuit to break out of stuff.
-Able to interrupt: Flinching Strike (deals weapon plus 26 to 29 Physical damage in addition to interrupting any spells the enemy was casting.)

Cons:
-Very limited CC, better than the rest of the builds.
-Not many buffs, but other classes supply most of them.
-Lose Stormblade from the Riftblade class. (Not to sure how much of a DPS loss that is.)

Buffs:
-Focus of Strength: Increased Strength
-Aegis of Vitality: Increased Vitality
-Way of the Mountain: Follow up attacks deal 20% more damage
-Slayer's Bearing: 15% Increased critical strike damage. (Can only have 1 bearing)
-Soldier's Bearing: 5% increases physical damage. (Can only have 1 bearing)

Rotation: (Single target)
>If you are the only one who can, use Mark of Inevitability and keep it up
>Keep Death Touch on cooldown
>Use Dual Strike as your filler/to activate follow up attack abilities
>Use Path of the Raptor as your main follow up attack
>Path of the Tempest at 3 Attack Points if target is at 31% or higher
>Deathblow at 3 Attack Points when target is at 30% or lower
>Use Turn the Blade whenever it is up, not on the GCD
>Use Inescapable Fury whenever it is up, not on the GCD
>Use Frenzied Strike whenever it is up.

Basically same thing as Paragon/Champion/Riftblade, just change out Riftblade for Paladin to receive that 10% extra damage to 1 handers.

The second build is: Paragon/Paladin/Riftblade(Suspected to be close in DPS with first build.)
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0chuL.Vx.Vex0zA0cR.EM0x0c0Mz

Pros:
-Dual Wield DPS: Pick up the Paladin sub class for Small Arms Specialization 10% increased damage with 1 handers.
-Good survival: Touch of Life (100% heal),Defender (10% armor), Avatar of Water (take 5% less damage), Stoneshield (Next attack misses)
-Good movement: If you need to be on the move you can turn on Avatar of Wind and Fleet of Foot. Also have Path of Wind and Path of Tempest for ranged damage. If you need to target swap you have Rift Walk.
-Able to interrupt: Flinching Strike (deals weapon plus 26 to 29 Physical damage in addition to interrupting any spells the enemy was casting.)

Cons:
-No CC at all. You can pick up a few points to gain CC, but its still limited.
-Not many buffs, but other classes supply most of them.

Buffs:
-Focus of Strength: Increased Strength
-Aegis of Vitality: Increased Vitality
-Way of the Mountain: Follow up attacks deal 20% more damage
-Storm Blade: Critical hits deal 100% of equipped weapon damage as Air damage over the next 6 seconds.

Rotation: (Single Target)
>Keep Death Touch on cooldown
>Use Dual Strike as your filler/to activate follow up attack abilities.
>Use Path of the Raptor as your main follow up attack.
>Path of the Tempest at 3 Attack Points.
>Use Turn the Blade whenever it is up, not on the GCD

Pretty boring rotation, only thing I am not sure of is using Shifting Blades or Strike Like Iron. When I tested, Strike Like Iron doesn't last long enough to be useful and Shifting Blades was doing less damage than Path of the Tempest.

The third build is: Paragon/Champion/Riftblade
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0ckuL.E0cd.Vex0zA0cR.AM0x0M

Pros:
-Dual Wield DPS: Champion gives a lot of buffs to DPS.
-Good Movement: If you need to be on the move you can turn on Avatar of Wind and Fleet of Foot. Also have Path of Wind and Path of Tempest for ranged damage. If you need to target swap you have Bull Rush.
-Good Power Regeneration: Pick up Grim Satisfaction (Critical hits regen 15 Power over 5 seconds) will greatly increase our damage output.
Able to interrupt: Flinching Strike (deals weapon plus 26 to 29 Physical damage in addition to interrupting any spells the enemy was casting.)

Cons:
-Less survival: We lose all the great things that the Paladin class provided us with.
-No CC at all. You can pick up a few points to gain CC, but its still limited.
-Not many buffs.

Buffs:
-Focus of Strength: Increased Strength
-Way of the Mountain: Follow up attacks deal 20% more damage
-Storm Blade: Critical hits deal 100% of equipped weapon damage as Air damage over the next 6 seconds.
-Slayer's Bearing: 15% Increased critical strike damage. (Can only have 1 bearing)
-Soldier's Bearing: 5% increases physical damage. (Can only have 1 bearing)

Rotation: (Single target)
>If you are the only one who can, use Mark of Inevitability and keep it up
>Keep Death Touch on cooldown
>Use Dual Strike as your filler/to activate follow up attack abilities
>Use Path of the Raptor as your main follow up attack
>Path of the Tempest at 3 Attack Points if target is at 31% or higher
>Deathblow at 3 Attack Points when target is at 30% or lower
>Use Turn the Blade whenever it is up, not on the GCD
>Use Inescapable Fury whenever it is up, not on the GCD

More complex rotation here, only thing I am not sure of is using Shifting Blades or Strike Like Iron still. I also don't know which one gives more DPS Slayer's Bearing (15% Increased critical strike damage) or Soldier's Bearing (5% increased physical damage).

The fourth build is: Champion/BeastMaster/Riftblade
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0cmkL.EE00Vzu0z.EAcd000hhzz.c

Pros:
-2Handed DPS: Very strong hitting.
-Have a pet for extra DPS.
-Decent survivability: Now have Kinship which does a small portion of healing and Protective Companion if needed.
-Many buffs.
-Able to Interrupt: Bash (47 to 50 Physical damage, in addition to interrupting casting.)

Cons:
-Less movement: Only thing useful is Bull Rush.
-No CC at all. You can pick up a few points to gain CC, but its still limited.
-Relying on a pet, if it dies your damage will suck.

Buffs:
-Enraged Companion: Increases damage by 10%, Increases pet damage by 20%
-Protective Companion: Increases Armor by 10%, Increases pet armor by 20% and max HP by 20%.
-Bond of Might: Increases Strength
-Bond of Feline Grace: Increases Dexterity
-Slayer's Bearing: 15% Increased critical strike damage. (Can only have 1 bearing)
-Soldier's Bearing: 5% increases physical damage. (Can only have 1 bearing)
-Stormblade: Critical hits deal 100% of equipped weapon damage as Air damage over the next 6 seconds.

Rotation: (Single Target)
>Use Debilitating Strike whenever it's off cooldown
>Keep Fierce Strike debuff on the target
>Keep Mark of Extermination on the target
>Use Power Strike as a filler
>Use Punishing Blow at 3 Attack Points when the target is at or above 31% HP.
>Use Deathblow at 3 Attack Points when the target is at or below 30% HP.
>Use Flesh Rip whenever it's up.
>Use Frenzied Strike whenever it's up, not on the GCD.
>Use Inescapable Fury whenever it's up, not on the GCD.

Well that's all. Any input or advice would be awesome!

Thank you.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2011 1:46am by infernix18
#2 Feb 21 2011 at 9:28 PM Rating: Decent
28 posts
I added what I had here to the top of my first post.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2011 1:48am by infernix18
#3 Feb 21 2011 at 9:33 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
18 posts
These specs look pretty decent. Though, I'm struggling to believe the 10% damage increase to one-handers provided in the Paladin tree will be good enough reason to waste 5 points on armor. Though it might be nice for soloing, you certainly won't need it in a group environment. Time will tell. /shrug

Here is the talent spec I have chosen so far:
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1ckuL.E0cdoorG.Vex0zA0cR.V0o

Its fairly similar to some of the talents you have snagged in your various specs, with some differences. A lot of the talents you picked in the Riftblade tree don't seem particularly strong when stacked up against the DPS increases later in the Champion tree.

Your Riftblade choices:
3/5 Rift Fury: From what I have read this talent is pretty useless at the moment. I suspect its even more useless if you aren't specced further into Riftblade.
2/2 Surging Energy: While I only made it to level 24 in the last Beta, I didn't notice myself to be lacking significantly in the power department. Aside from which, the power bonus from Grim Satisfaction (Champion) should be enough.
5/5 Static Shock: Certainly a nice retribution style ability.
2/3 Elemental Touch: Again, like Rift Fury, the bonus from this talent doesn't seem particularly fetching without being specced further into Riftblade where it can reach its full potential.
=12 points


My Champion choices:
3/3 Intense Training: No denying the passive bonus increase to these buffs is an excellent increase in DPS.
2/2 Overun: Provides a little more survivability. 3 seconds is certainly long enough to fire off a couple of attacks before taking damage.
2/2 Follow Through: Provides some increased AOE damage to Bladefury.
2/2 Don't Make Me Angry: A 30% increase to attack power after being critically hit is certainly comparable to 5/5 Static Shock.
1/1 Ruthless Pursuit: Grants the ability to break stuns/snares, which means you can get back to killing the boss or a mob faster.
1/1 Battlefield Intimidation: A root with a reasonable cooldown.
1/1 Freeze Armor: A 50% movement decrease with a short cooldown (8 secs, lasts for 15 seconds), allowing it to be reapplied over and over again.
=12 points

I went for a little more utility, because in a group environment the ability to CC is going to come in handy - as some of the lower level instances seemed to prove.


#4 Feb 21 2011 at 9:34 PM Rating: Decent
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18 posts
Looks like you sort of picked up on the Champion>Riftblade while I was busy typing! :)
#5 Feb 21 2011 at 9:54 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
18 posts
One thing I will say is that you are three points short of Bladefury in the Champion tree. If you pick up Bladefury you have an AOE attack point dump. Not to mention that the 2 points in Follow Through (Champion) buff both Bladefury and Mighty Blow.

This also means you can keep up an entire AOE rotation instead of weaving in single target attacks.

Mighty Blow (Champion) to generate Attack Points
Path of the Hurricane (Paragon) as a Follow Up
Bladefury (Champion) at 3 Attack Points
#6 Feb 21 2011 at 10:03 PM Rating: Decent
28 posts
Yeah I was just thinking about switching out Riftblade for Champion and it seems that it will be more of a DPS increase.

As far as the AoE thing goes. I plan on having 1 Single target spec, 1 AoE spec, 1 mitigation tank spec and 1 other spec. Either PvP or another tank spec.

That way during trash or a boss that has a bunch of adds, I can just switch specs.
#7 Feb 22 2011 at 12:09 AM Rating: Decent
28 posts
I'd also like to point out, I think I will be running Paragon/Champion/Paladin.

Auralius wrote:

Your Riftblade choices:
3/5 Rift Fury: From what I have read this talent is pretty useless at the moment. I suspect its even more useless if you aren't specced further into Riftblade.
2/2 Surging Energy: While I only made it to level 24 in the last Beta, I didn't notice myself to be lacking significantly in the power department. Aside from which, the power bonus from Grim Satisfaction (Champion) should be enough.
5/5 Static Shock: Certainly a nice retribution style ability.
2/3 Elemental Touch: Again, like Rift Fury, the bonus from this talent doesn't seem particularly fetching without being specced further into Riftblade where it can reach its full potential.
=12 points


My Champion choices:
3/3 Intense Training: No denying the passive bonus increase to these buffs is an excellent increase in DPS.
2/2 Overun: Provides a little more survivability. 3 seconds is certainly long enough to fire off a couple of attacks before taking damage.
2/2 Follow Through: Provides some increased AOE damage to Bladefury.
2/2 Don't Make Me Angry: A 30% increase to attack power after being critically hit is certainly comparable to 5/5 Static Shock.
1/1 Ruthless Pursuit: Grants the ability to break stuns/snares, which means you can get back to killing the boss or a mob faster.
1/1 Battlefield Intimidation: A root with a reasonable cooldown.
1/1 Freeze Armor: A 50% movement decrease with a short cooldown (8 secs, lasts for 15 seconds), allowing it to be reapplied over and over again.
=12 points

I went for a little more utility, because in a group environment the ability to CC is going to come in handy - as some of the lower level instances seemed to prove.




Basically if you go Champion/Paragon/Riftblade all you get out of Riftblade is Stormblade.
**Paladin's 10% increased damage to 1 handers > Riftblade's Stormblade.**

I do realize CC will be important, but in most cases it is a fear, root or incapacitation that are the true CC's. Slowing the target doesn't seem to help unless you have to kite, and in most cases other classes have better kiting abilities.

I think Overrun is useless. If a tank is trying to pull the mob to a certain area then it sucks for them and most bosses are immune to stuns.
Don't Make me Angry is useless, unless you have a really bad tank, you aren't going to get critically hit.

I'd also like to point at that Power is a huge issue at higher levels. I'm not sure why, but even at level 42 Power wouldn't last long. Paragon drains power fast.

I agree that the riftblade talents are basically pointless, that's why I am changing Riftblade to Champion.

This is the perfect build:
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0chuk.Vx.Vex0zA0cR.E0cdoobh



Edited, Feb 22nd 2011 1:14am by infernix18

Edited, Feb 22nd 2011 3:59am by infernix18
#8 Feb 22 2011 at 5:28 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
18 posts
I respectfully disagree with you. While I am a huge fan of the ability to have 4 soul trees I can switch in and out of on a whim, I still find it desirable to have one spec I will spend the majority of my time in which can provide me the most DPS and utility in PVE/PVP/Soloing. Your spec, may, at this time, be the best single target DPS on a raid boss. But, I don't believe it will be a viable "main spec" so to speak.

Some things to consider...

1.) Most theorycrafters don't even know if Small Arms Specialization works with Paragon right now.
A.) Some people remember reading that you must have a shield equipped in order for the talent to work.
B.) No one knows if it affects both one-handers or the main hand only.
C.) Players are all ready QQing that the if the talent works with Paragon this makes Paragon massively OP.

I am of the opinion that the developer's did not intend to grant Paragon a flat 20% DPS increase in a defensive tree. Think about it. It makes no sense. I'm confident the talent was placed in the Paladin tree to help tanks generate threat, not for DPS to mutilate everything in their path. More evidence of this is that originally the talent was at the beginning of the Paladin tree and was recently moved up by developers. Meaning, they are paying close attention to the talent and how it is being used. My guess was this was intended to discourage Paragon from taking the Paladin soul. If it is not all ready, I would imagine Small Arms Specialization is going to quickly find itself with a "Must have shield equipped," similar to how some Champion talents now have "Must have a 2-handed weapon equipped," attached to them. So, for now, I'm going to bet my money on Riftblade.

2.) Perhaps its the years of playing Warcraft that make me die inside when someone has the mentality, "Another class can do this and they can do it better so why should I sacrifice my personal DPS for a CC?" I've played a warrior for years in Warcraft. When the Cataclysm expansion hit late last year, CC became a prominent part of instances and raids. Unfortunately, Warcraft warriors have almost no viable CC while every other class does. This means when people are looking to formulate groups, they often shirk the warrior in favor of a class that does provide CC. Don't believe me? Look at the Warcraft forums! Endless QQ from warriors about their ability to contribute CC making them one of the less desirable classes to have in a group. Furthermore, the ability to do awesome DPS is secondary to performing mechanics of a fight correctly. Freeze Armor is very similar to Hamstring (Warcraft), which has been proven exceedingly useful in raids. While I don't think Rift is entirely a Warcraft clone and am enjoying it more than I have enjoyed Warcraft in years, I believe you can expect similar problems to arise in group environments. In addition, I only dropped two points in my talents for two CCs! Which, to me, is amazing. Essentially, I can root something with Battlefield Intimidation, Freeze Armor it after the root breaks and run away from it and keep doing that until my Battlefield Intimidation comes off of cooldown. This means I can kite and I can prevent myself from taking a ridiculous amount of damage. For a group, the ability to do this is invaluable and makes you a hot commodity.

3.) Overrun may be useless on bosses (I can't verify that yet), but I know for a fact it is useful on trash. I would like to point out that it shouldn't be used unless the tank all ready has mobs in a neat little pile, meaning it will never "suck for them." This also allows the tank to build decent aggro, which is never ever a bad thing. In fact, if Overrun is being used properly, it will mitigate incoming damage to the tank and indirectly conserve healer mana, meaning that on ridiculously difficult trash pulls you've given your party a better chance of survival. Moreover, this talent should prove amazing for soloing and PVP.

4.) In a PVE environment, Don't Make Me Angry is similar to the Paladin (Warcraft) talent Eye for an Eye which has been controversial for exactly the reason you bring up. However, it does provide a damage increase if you are critically hit by anything. This means you get increased damage from adds during boss pulls that the tank has yet to pick up or can't pick up, or if you accidentally pull aggro, or if you are targeted by the boss for a special ability. It may not be a 100% up time ability. But its still a damage increase. Like Overrun, this talent should be very useful for soloing and PVP. 2 points in Don't Make Me Angry is still better than 5 points in Defender.

5.) If energy is as hard to come by as you're saying it is, than I might be tempted to drop Don't Make Me Angry for the energy bonus of Surging Energy in the Riftblade tree. Energy up time will certainly be better than a "Well, maybe I'll get critically hit by something" talent.

6.) There's no arguing that the AOE potential of the spec I posted is significantly better.

But in the end, its all about what "you" want to play. Which is what I like about Rift. The spec you've posted is probably great for single target fights so long as Small Arms Specialization remains viable. And I would suspect the spec I have posted is just as great in terms of trash pulls. I just find the utility of the spec I posted to be a more viable spec to sit in 99% of the time.

Either way, have fun and best of luck to you! Make warriors proud!

#9 Feb 22 2011 at 8:03 PM Rating: Decent
28 posts
Thanks for your feedback Auralius.

I've been in 4 top 50 world guilds during my Warcraft career and I have quite a bit of Theorycrafting experience. For the most part you are right, this game has so many options and variations that it's very hard to be wrong. Although, Rift marketed itself to WoW players, that means most of the hardcore players will only accept certain classes/specs with specific talent points. People will spend hours upon hours to figure out if Spec A is better or worse than Spec B and when they do figure it all out, people will be directed to go that certain way by guilds.

If you are a casual, why does it matter? Have fun how you want to have fun. This guide was meant for real discussion for end game content.

1.) Most theorycrafters don't even know if Small Arms Specialization works with Paragon right now.

-It's incredible easy to test if it works. During beta I tried it once and saw a increase in damage, sure I can't prove it this very second, but I will gladly prove that Small Arms Specialization affects Paragon DPS when I can.

I whole-heartily agree that CC is important. Trust me, I do. I've been playing WoW since open beta. My spec provides every single CC there is except Overrun and the riftblade one. If riftblade proved to be better DPS or if Small Arms Specialization doesn't work with Paragon then I would agree in picking up Freeze Armor for some extra CC.

As far as the AoE thing goes, I think you are overlooking it.
#1 If CC is such a big deal, then more than half the times you won't be AoEing. Most likely single targeting.
#2 If you are worried about your DPS on trash mobs then that's where we both differ. I feel that I will do just fine with AOE during trash with the abilities that I have.

If I was progressing on a certain boss and AoE was absolutely needed then I could either quickly respec or have 1 extra spec dedicated for AoE purposes.

In the end, we both have different opinions on our play styles. This is all just random stuff put together. I think the talent points that we differ from hold a very small DPS increase/decrease and shouldn't affect each other.

Thanks again for the feedback.
#10 Feb 22 2011 at 9:00 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
18 posts
I am not a casual player, so you'll have to forgive me if that's how I came across. I'm currently in a top raiding guild in Warcraft on Windrunner and have the Defender of a Shattered World title and so on and so forth. I wasn't intending to make this a conversation about casual vs. raider, or to measure who has the most know-how/raiding experience. I wholeheartedly believe the spec you have chosen is A) Not going to last long given how much Small Arms Specialization buffs Paragon DPS and B) Provides little utility to a raid. Those are differences of opinion regarding what is important to a raid (the most DPS vs. good DPS and good raid utility) and not necessarily the difference between a casual player and a hard core player. As for which is better for end-game, that's going to depend on what play-style the individual feels is most important (as you and I seem to be illustrating quite well) and the mechanics of a fight.

To respond to your comments concerning AOE...

If you've played Cataclysm you know there are certain packs that can simply be AOE'd and others that must be CC'd and therefore require single target DPS. Not all mob packs are created equal, which is what your comment seems to be asserting. A great example is in Realm of the Fae. You can AOE the packs of beast slimes, but packs of 4+ goblins is really asking for trouble, making CC a nice option. I guess you could switch back and forth a zillion times between specs each and every pull, the game certainly allows for it, but I'm not sure its something I want to be doing every two minutes. And, if you are familiar with raid environments, a great portion of moving between bosses involves AOE, which is where the saying "padding the meter" comes in. No, AOE DPS is not the end all be all of instances or raids, but to say its not important is also false.

I think what is more likely at this time is, as I stated previously, both specs are viable for raiding. And I believe to some extent this is what you are also saying.

Que Sera Sera.
#11 Feb 23 2011 at 5:05 AM Rating: Decent
1 post
Here is the build that i used for 2h pve. its Champion/Beastmaster/Paragon. i tried a dw build but it just never worked as well for me.

I got to 42 in the open beta, did all the dungeons including Fall of Lantern Hook the 44 instance. the highest i was able to self buff my attack power to was 350 with this spec, it also has good aoe and good group buffs. all the reactives give it good single target damage as well.

2h pve dps


#12 Feb 26 2011 at 12:20 PM Rating: Decent
8 posts
I'm liking the look of this. Very helpful so far.

However, do you have any tips for the following:

-Leveling. I'm thinking about going Champion (I love 2h dps), but I don't want to necessarily gimp myself.
-Which is "the best"? Paragon and Champion seem like a close match, but I'm wondering if one excels above the other.
-Do you have any ideas about a "rotation" for either of them? Which skills to use and which skills are garbage?
-Which talents have priority? Since many of us are leveling, could you list "take these first when you can"?

Thank you if you can help.

Edited, Feb 26th 2011 1:26pm by adam483t
#13 Mar 27 2011 at 10:33 PM Rating: Decent
11 posts
I was just curious. Have you considderd Running Champion main focus Reaver for the 9% hp back on Killing blow and BM?

I havent played Dps for long just started testing could be this works mostly as a Survival build for questing. the Heals and Dots from Reaver adds up a little. I dont run any form to see how it is Dps wise though.

Adding Entropic Embrace for the Death dmg.
Soul feast , Ethereal Bond , Plauge bringer for spreading the Dots and with some minor healing?
Aswell as Planar attunment and Grisly works.

Id post a spec im running but the talent tree is messing up so im unable to place talents in it.

Would love to be corrected on this idea or feedbacks of any sort around adding Reaver as Dps instead of Rift or para.
#14 Mar 27 2011 at 10:39 PM Rating: Good
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vevexan wrote:
I was just curious. Have you considderd Running Champion main focus Reaver for the 9% hp back on Killing blow and BM?

I havent played Dps for long just started testing could be this works mostly as a Survival build for questing. the Heals and Dots from Reaver adds up a little. I dont run any form to see how it is Dps wise though.

Adding Entropic Embrace for the Death dmg.
Soul feast , Ethereal Bond , Plauge bringer for spreading the Dots and with some minor healing?
Aswell as Planar attunment and Grisly works.

Id post a spec im running but the talent tree is messing up so im unable to place talents in it.

Would love to be corrected on this idea or feedbacks of any sort around adding Reaver as Dps instead of Rift or para.


There are a couple issues with this:

#1: Beastmaster as a support soul gets progressively worse the higher level you get. After about level 30 your pet stops leveling up, and since it takes a major investment in the soul to use greater pets, you're stuck with the lesser one. You could make an argument for the cheapo +hit talents right at the bottom, but when you're talking about Champion it really becomes a moot point as the Champion soul SHOWERS you in +hit talents.

#2: Reaver dots have a similar problem. While self-healing is never really a bad thing, Soul Sickness never gains any appreciable strength without a major investment in Reaver, AND it's getting nerfed in the next patch so that it heals you for less the more targets you have versus what it does right now.

The typical pairing with Champion seems to be Paragon as it gets some nice passive benefits to damage and attack point generation (something Champ has a bit of a problem with) as well as nice filler attacks that are off the GCD and go nicely into those lightyear gaps in between weapon swings
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#15 Mar 28 2011 at 12:15 AM Rating: Default
28 posts
Hey guys!

Sorry I haven't been responding, I've needed to take a break due to RL.

I'm back now!

I'm level 50 and in semi decent gear, mostly tier 1 stuff.

Looks like this is looking to be the top DPS spec:
33 Champion / 27 Beast Master / 6 Paragon
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0ckmu.EhczVobhhzz.xE0bVzu.q

This spec is calculating you are hit capped for T1's, T2's and raids. That means you should be at 200 hit rating to use this spec. (Very high end gear)

Pros:
-2Handed DPS: Very strong hitting.
-Have a pet for extra DPS.
-Decent survivability: Now have Kinship which does a small portion of healing and Protective Companion if needed.
-Many buffs.
-Able to Interrupt: Bash (47 to 50 Physical damage, in addition to interrupting casting.)

Cons:
-Less movement: Only thing useful is Bull Rush.
-No CC at all. You can pick up a few points to gain CC, but its still limited.
-Relying on a pet, if it dies your damage will suck.
-Retardedly hard rotation.

Buffs:
-Enraged Companion: Increases damage by 10%, Increases pet damage by 20%
-Protective Companion: Increases Armor by 10%, Increases pet armor by 20% and max HP by 20%.
-Bond of Might: Increases Strength
-Bond of Feline Grace: Increases Dexterity
-Slayer's Bearing: 15% Increased critical strike damage. (Can only have 1 bearing)
-Soldier's Bearing: 5% increases physical damage. (Can only have 1 bearing)
-Way of the River: 3% increased crit chance

The rotation is absolutely ridiculous and is so hard to explain. I'll try my best, my only advice is to practice.
Priority Rotation: (Single Target)
>Keep Debilitating Strike debuff on the target
>Keep Fierce Strike debuff on the target
>Keep Mark of Extermination on the target
>Keep Strike Like Iron on yourself (Always use at 3 Attack Points)
>Keep Slashing Strike on the target
>Keep Tearing Slash on the target
>Keep Feral Sweep on the target
>Keep Titan's Strike on Cooldown.
>Use Power Strike as a filler
>Use Deathblow at 3 Attack Points when the target is at or below 30% HP.
>Use Frenzied Strike whenever it's up, not on the GCD.
>Use Inescapable Fury whenever it's up, not on the GCD.

***You will always be late on keeping things up. It's incredible hard keeping track of 3 bleeds and 3 debuffs on the target, while keeping up Strike Like Iron on yourself. As long as you are consistent you will do great DPS. Practice, Practice, Practice!!!***

High end warriors are pulling 1.3k DPS (including pet), I've been pulling 900+ DPS (including pet). Easily the best DPS spec out there.

If you aren't hit capped heres what you should use:
32 Beastmaster / 32 Champion / 2 Paragon
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0ckmu.EAczV00h0zz.EE0bVzu.M

This spec is calculating you are very low on hit.

Hit cap is 200 for Raids
Hit cap is 150 for Tier 2's
Hit cap is 50 for Tier 1's

10% = 50 hit rating. So depending on your hit, you can take/add points as you need.

Exactly the same as the first spec. You will notice a little DPS loss, but this spec still is top DPS.
#16 Mar 28 2011 at 3:17 PM Rating: Decent
19 posts
Wow, that is pretty complicated but I think this is what a warrior on my server is doing right now. He is constantly pushing 900+ DPS in Tier1/2 dungeons.
#17 Mar 28 2011 at 10:38 PM Rating: Decent
11 posts
Well, Regarding the Soul Sicknes it wasent the talent i would rely most on for heals but its a bonus off dmg i dont like BM mostly because of having a pet as a warrior that should have no issues dealing enough dmg without it. And as said its getting reduced hp you gain, well its the ekstra dmg from it along with the Blood fever that gives a general overall debuff to 5 targets of 5% less chance for them to hit you or anyone else in the group, and Necrotic wounds that has a smal amount of dmg. and you also have a passive ability buff called Binding of Affliction that increase dmg done by all dmg abilitys by 5% wich means you can add Slayers Bearing from CHamp instead of Soldiers bearing. ( yes its a 2% dps loss from physical abilities using Binding of Affliction instead of Soldiers Bearing) Though you do gain the crit from Slayers Bearing wich id say is a smal bonus.

So maybe a Champ /Para/ Reaver atleast for levling up since the Grisly works heals for 9% of your hp on kill, yes it requiers about 15 talents spent in reaver that you can further spend down into Para or Champ for something else.

Im mostly just testing this and finding it so far neither lacking as a Dps spec nor as a self sustained spec for quests i dont have much down time with this since killing the mobs dont take that long, but i can asume that this might not be all that great as a lvl 50 T1/t2 and so on build for Dungeons, havent gotten that far yet as im at 41 now and working my way there.

If anyone thats good with numbers and such would have time to maybe test this and see if its actualy worth it, prob some of you that things im all wrong here about this spec, and i might be but its worth a try with all the joy of mixing that can be done so far with the souls.
#18 Mar 29 2011 at 12:56 PM Rating: Default
28 posts
@Vevexan

Your idea of Champion/Paragon/Reaver sounds great, but unfortunately it doesn't even come close to Beast Master.

Binding of Affliction is the same as Enraged Companion. (They both give 5% damage increase)
Beast Master also gives Dexterity and Strength.

The biggest reasons why Beast Master is superior is because of:
-Bleeds
-Strike to Maim: Melee critical hits deal your strength amount over 8 seconds.
-Pack Mentality: Increased 6% damage
-Having a pet (The pet will do 100-200 DPS.)

Reaver/Champion is an amazing build for leveling, don't get me wrong, you should never die. So keep using that for leveling. Ultimately this game allows you play what you want, but there will always be a certain set of souls that come out on top. For right now it is Champion/Beast Master/Paragon.

We are getting nerfed in patch 1.1, so this may change. I know Paragon is getting a little buff, so maybe we will all be dual wielding next patch, it's hard to tell.

At any cost, most Rift players will accept any warrior DPS as long as you are pulling your weight. (Currently 400+ DPS) I know most warrior specs can push 400 DPS easily, especially with other players buffs. So have fun with it.



#19 Mar 29 2011 at 10:27 PM Rating: Decent
11 posts
@infernix18

Ofc im not saying Reaver would out dps Bm, Havent read the recent patch notes saying anything about the nerfs and buffs, Im just playing around with a spec that might be a bit diffrent than others and still have fun with it.

Though BM sure has some nice bonuses, Enraged companion has a Duration time? aswell as a Cooldown, sure it gives alot more bonus than the reaver's Binding of Affliction, But yeah i would asume more that the reaver would be used best as a level spec and perhaps farming spec at 50.

Its just some part of me thats not seeing the part of having to Rely on a pet all that much to actualy do Higher dmg if the pet dies from a Boss AoE or dot or anything like that the dps suddenly gets dropet and if you keep your pet out of combat it still dosent give the bonuses then, Also dose the Bm Str / Dex/ Endurence stack with a Cleric shamans buffs?

Taking those buffs away, just as a though (gaining them from a cleric instead) and then Your sorta just left with the bleed effects from the BM build and ofc Dmg over time ticks are pretty good for keeping up the dmg, im just thinking and woundering. Seeing there is many ways to twist and turn both the benefits and downsides of the BM so far most of the discussions has been about the benefits. Ofc that is also some part of the point with the thread. Im just looking at the downside if the Pet dies and As far as i can see i dont find the BM having any instant summon like the other pet using classes dose, making it a bit of a downside if it by some accident would die, your dps drops you loose some procs youd get trough having the pet aswell.

Taking this in mind im just curious how much differ the Dps would be even though Reaver gets nerfed the dots dose tick a decent dmg, probably cant compete with the bleeds 100% of the time.
Though Yeah i have my doubts that Reaver would been the best dps but would love to have seen some numbers with a Reaver /champ/Para build see how it actualy is Dps wise with the 3 dots up.
#20 Mar 30 2011 at 1:38 PM Rating: Default
28 posts
Not like it matters much anymore.

Beastmaster got nerfed to the ground and I doubt its viable anymore.

Paragon got some great buffs though, I'm going to do some parsing tonight to see whats the best.

#21 Mar 30 2011 at 8:10 PM Rating: Good
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infernix18 wrote:
Not like it matters much anymore.

Beastmaster got nerfed to the ground and I doubt its viable anymore.

Paragon got some great buffs though, I'm going to do some parsing tonight to see whats the best.



Unfortunately dual wielding dps in general still seems to suck. My Paragon dps didn't really change much from what it was pre-patch, I think that's a combination of the armor pen bug fix and the Strike Like Iron buff... averaged out to about the same for Paragon, which was pretty unremarkable
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#22 Mar 30 2011 at 9:15 PM Rating: Default
28 posts
Lame.

Looks like BM/Champion/Paragon is still going to be the top DPS.

I'm seeing 850+ DPS self buffed. Not much of a difference.
#23 Apr 09 2011 at 3:51 PM Rating: Decent
3 posts
Hey All this is the build i plan to use. i have been a dps in every MMORPG i have ever played including 4 years as a Enhancment shaman.

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0cLuk.xG.EexcuAzMR.E0oz

Hope you like it and would love any ideas/input.

Thanks!!!!

#24 Apr 09 2011 at 5:00 PM Rating: Good
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xxArkxx wrote:
Hey All this is the build i plan to use. i have been a dps in every MMORPG i have ever played including 4 years as a Enhancment shaman.

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0cLuk.xG.EexcuAzMR.E0oz

Hope you like it and would love any ideas/input.

Thanks!!!!



On a cursory glance, you're going to want Grim Satisfaction a whole lot more than 6% extra Strength
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#25 Apr 12 2011 at 10:03 PM Rating: Decent
3 posts
Will anyone update this thread with the current best builds that do reasonable dps please.
#26 Apr 13 2011 at 5:29 PM Rating: Good
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Holden1986 wrote:
Will anyone update this thread with the current best builds that do reasonable dps please.


Fact is it doesn't work that way.

Figuring out what the "best" build for any given class is actually quite difficult, especially as different builds will perform differently on different fights just because of the mechanics involved.

I invite you to post your thoughts on builds that have been presented... I invite you to post your own builds... I invite you to post parses on various fights that show highs and lows of various builds, and through enough people doing this we can generally agree on a few builds that stand above the rest.

But there's no magic button. There's no keybind to hit to get a list of the top 10 "best" builds for any class. This actually takes work to figure out. If you'd like to contribute to that effort, please do. If you're only interested in the end result though, I'm afraid you will have to be patient
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#27 Apr 13 2011 at 5:40 PM Rating: Default
28 posts
I do not play Rift much anymore. I wish I had more time on my hands, but I simply do not.

If I ever find time to update the first post, I most definitely will.

If you are looking for a quick answer to whats going to pump out best DPS. Go BM/Paragon/Champion

I've posted 2 builds in this post, one is for hit cap and one is for under hit cap. It's still a superior DPS spec. If you do not want or pet, then you do not want to top DPS, simply put. There's been a lot of contribution to this thread.

Like I said, when I find time, I will post more information about the spec/rotation/gear list. Including parses and proof that make BM/Paragon/Champion the superior spec I claim it to be.

This may take a while, as I have to spend countless platinum and hours on respecing and doing 3-5 minute parses per specs that can stand a chance. When I am done with everything, I will provide all that I discover. Who knows.

In the mean time, if you have 3-5 minute parses on a target dummy only self buffed, please feel free to provide them.

#28 Apr 13 2011 at 7:46 PM Rating: Decent
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You say that the BM/Champ/Para build is clearly superior but how far behind are other specs/ souls?

I love my Riftblade play style but if it's DPS just sucks compared to other builds I won't play it. Does RB just suck because it doesn't really scale with gear?

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0ckLA.EMc.EGstdsrGtdz

Thats the build I had planned for my RB at 50, I could switch points around and use the BM soul instead for the +hit talent or whatever...there's a few options...but only if it just doesn't plain suck.
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#29 Apr 13 2011 at 8:24 PM Rating: Good
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Katchii wrote:
You say that the BM/Champ/Para build is clearly superior but how far behind are other specs/ souls?

I love my Riftblade play style but if it's DPS just sucks compared to other builds I won't play it. Does RB just suck because it doesn't really scale with gear?

http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0ckLA.EMc.EGstdsrGtdz

Thats the build I had planned for my RB at 50, I could switch points around and use the BM soul instead for the +hit talent or whatever...there's a few options...but only if it just doesn't plain suck.


Unfortunately, Avatar of the Rift doesn't seem to be worth it considering all the junk branches you have to take to get it (mmm... extra parry... super). The normal point count I see on Riftblades is 38 (because Rift Strike totally IS worth it).

The numbers I've heard about (I've never actually tested the spec myself) say that the BM/Champ/Para spec is actually several hundred dps ahead of other decent warrior builds, which is a gargantuan shame because I hate the entire idea of being a pet class. I actually go out of my way not to play them, so I'm kind of hoping this gets balanced out over the next few patches to make the rest of the warrior calling as competitive as Beastmaster currently is
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#30 Apr 14 2011 at 5:47 AM Rating: Decent
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I have been playing with 38 Riftblade/20 Paragon/8 Reaver and it seems to be absolutely decapitating everything. The spec enhances the dot damage from the reaver abilities, and builds attack points to use the riftblade's off the global finishers at insane speed. Between strike like iron and the 30% boost from the riftblade tree, the constant stream of numbers I am seeing from this build look outrageous. I will hopefully be parsing this tonight using the parser I found on riftjunkies, and I will post the results here when I have them.
#31 Apr 14 2011 at 8:06 AM Rating: Decent
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If that truly is the case, that's a damn shame...there shouldn't be one stupidly hard spec that gives an outrageous advantage over the other DPS spec in the warrior calling.

I dont' necessarily mind being a pet class, the RB play style just interested me a whole lot more than the 15 step priority system the BM/Champ/Para build has. RB is just so versatile...I don't see how you can be versatile doing everything you possibly can just to keep up all of the buffs and debuffs for that build.

If the choices truly are either that asinine DPS build with the ridiculous rotation or suck at DPS....I'll tank instead.
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#32 Apr 14 2011 at 8:20 AM Rating: Good
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It's not that ridiculous of a rotation, its just like 2 or 3 macros.... On single targets i literally only pressed 2 buttons. On AoE fights i used two different buttons.
#33 Apr 14 2011 at 10:20 AM Rating: Decent
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From what I read, the rotation is ridiculous, it can just be simplified into a 2 button macro mash fest. Which, TBH, is really the only viable way to play that spec (to it's full potential) because there's no feckin way a normal human can keep track of that much stuff AND pay attention to the fight mechanics

Mashing 2 buttons to top the meters isn't playing Rift...it's playing the old Mortal Kombat "Test Your Might!" games. I just don't see how people can really enjoy that.
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#34 Apr 14 2011 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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i agree completely. DPS has never been that interesting in MMOs, which is why i stick to tanking :P

Edited, Apr 14th 2011 9:22am by KTurner
#35 Apr 14 2011 at 10:48 AM Rating: Decent
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I can go either way about the whole "DPS is not interesting in MMOs" thing.

On one hand, some specs will allow for simplicity in the rotation (or a forced simplicity using clever macros), while others truly do take skill to play. On the other hand, DPS is as essential to a raid as Healers and Tanks, and good DPS can do great (debatable I suppose) DPS and pay attention to the fight mechanics.

I myself really like seeing big numbers, and I'll admit to loving competing for the top spots on the DPS meters in WoW. I was a DW Frost DK until I quit just as Rift was released, which was a Howling Blast (I know...terrible terrible joke) because of the priority system and AoE capabilities, as well as the nice numbers we could put out when geared correctly. But in TBC I was a Hunter, BM of course because it was the highest DPS build, but I got bored because to be the best DPS Hunter literally only took mashing a 1 button macro until the guy died.

DPS can be interesting if the fights are setup correctly, but if it's just a stand still, tank and spank, button mashing fest....the only joy is seeing you as the top on the meter...which says more about your gear than it does about your skill most of the time.
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#36 Apr 25 2011 at 7:03 PM Rating: Decent
2 posts
I have a build that's based on a Paragon build that I would like to get others' feedback and discussion.

It's a 32 Para/26 Champ/ 8 BM
rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0ckum.E0czoRbG0z.Vex00A0cR.Vh

Pros:
Increased hit % to ease with gear choices
Very, very energy efficient, even in heavy, constant AoE situations
Very high AoE capabilities

Cons:
No pet to increase damage
No CC abilities, except maybe the AoE fear in the Champ tree

I've read that Deadly Grace isn't working always and that should bring our damage up a bit, but I'm still unsure if it will bring us up to this Champ/BM/Para 2H build that's supposedly ripping apart bosses.

I tried the above mentioned spec and found I ran out of energy quite quickly, even in group situations. And that was just single target too. I also didn't use the above mentioned priority where you include the bleeds, but I'm fairly certain that would've just made the problem worse.

I like my spec that I linked especially since it's extremely efficient on energy. Even in heavy AoE fights, I never seem to go below 50 power.

Also, I don't know how dated it is still, but is Path of Raptor still a better follow-up attack than Rising Waterfall, or did they fix that when they added a cooldown to it?

Any feedback would be terrific, thanks in advance.

#37 May 23 2011 at 3:57 AM Rating: Default
3 posts
Preformated Text
For the time being I am going strictly PvE. At lvl 50 I went

33 Champion

5/5 Take No Prisoners
5/5 Titan's Strength
3/3 Grim Satisfaction
3/3 Deadly Satisfaction
2/2 Brutal Punishment
5/5 Two-Handed Specialization
2/2 Follow Through
1/1 Blood Thirst
2/2 Blood Frenzy
1/1 Proper Timing
3/3 Perfect Timing
1/1 Titan's Strike

25 Beastmaster

5/5 Natural Instincts
5/5 Survival of the Fittest
5/5 Iron Bonds
1/1 Shared Bonds (I find that although it's not directly beneficial +str and 5% attack to everyone is nice)
5/5 Strike to Maim
1/1 Greater Companion
3/3 Pack mentality

8 Paragon
5/5 Combat Precision
3/3 Double Jeopardy

With this build I push around 750 dps with less than desireable stats.
I keep mark of extermination on the mob and spam perfect timing with Strike like Iron.

I rarely use macros since i suck with timing but when i get really lazy i do this instead of skill clicks.

My damage rotation for single target(s):
cast mark of extermination
cast debilitating strike
cast rising waterfall
cast fierce strike
cast rising waterfall
cast slashing strike
cast power strike
cast Inescapable Fury
Cast flesh rip

--Finishers--
*wait till 3 AP build*
Cast Strike like iron
cast Titan's Strike
cast Deathblow
cast punishing blow


Any suggestions to macros, build, or even items to craft/pvp/quest/faction for would be appreciated.

*pic will be uploaded when i can get it to work properly.*
#38 Jun 27 2011 at 7:36 PM Rating: Decent
From doing some calculations, although i have not parsed it yet, if you want Paragon as your main tree, this would be the most effective build for straight dps for pve.
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0cukh.Eex0zA0cR.E0cd00b.Vx
Please respond with questions or thoughts.
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#40 Jul 05 2011 at 11:06 AM Rating: Decent
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What about this build for Warrior (PVP):
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=0ckuL.EV0zqMMG00z.Ee0M0Azck

Paragon (34)
Champion (32)
Riftblade (0) (StormBlade)

In lvl50 i'll change from Riftblade to Vindicator

Thanks a lot!
#41 May 14 2014 at 12:39 PM Rating: Decent
1 post
KTurner wrote:
It's not that ridiculous of a rotation, its just like 2 or 3 macros.... On single targets i literally only pressed 2 buttons. On AoE fights i used two different buttons.


Last I saw macros only used one ability/skill at a time. Did they limit it since then? I am still a newb, just trying to learn how to play a warrior to the fullest and not trying to overwhelm myself. Macros look handy, but seem very limited. Last I checked they don't chain anymore right?
Necro Warning: This post occurred more than thirty days after the prior, and may be a necropost.
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