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The Infamous Bard, a waste?Follow

#1 Nov 22 2010 at 7:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Coming from Everquest, and playing a bard since 2000, I have such a strong urge to play the bard. However, with Rift and it's concept of class systems, I've recently discovered that the bard in itself is not one of the "main" roots/lines of the char. system. Instead, the bard is mainly for buffing/debuffing, as an add-on-to-my scout class, (such as assassin/ranger.)

So now the question I would like to offer you all, is incorporating the bard to your character a waste? They seem not very strong, and the killer thing about bards-- their speed-- just doesn't seem like what it was in Everquest. (I read that one of the final bard abilities was to increase movement by 15, or something along those lines)

So what do you all think?
#2 Nov 22 2010 at 7:20 PM Rating: Good
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Honestly with 20 man raids, I believe having 1 bard in their for its unique buffs and defuffs could be more than useful. More than like you'd see it matched with a ranged class such as the ranger since melee wise it'd be alot more prone to die and do much less dps overall.
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#3 Nov 22 2010 at 7:23 PM Rating: Decent
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i wouldnt get worried yet, theres still alot of unknowns right now.

bard do seem to be more towards the buffer/debuff mix though that dosent mean they are bad or cant do damage at all, they just arnt the same as what you are used to, you might even like it better but who knows, i also believe bards are gonna be well used and wanted by everyone **** just coda of distress which makes the target take 2% more damage per combo point from everyone you know how awesome that will be.


#4 Nov 22 2010 at 7:26 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm just hoping Bard is similar to FFXI. That was an incredibly fun character. It was terrible if you wanted to solo at all, but grouping was amazing. If they can pull off something that gives me that feeling again I'll be very pleased.
#5 Nov 22 2010 at 9:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Bard is such a generic job in that you really have to love it to play it so I do like the way they are using it sounds like it will be a nice addition to filler jobs for dungeons and also might assist for soloing and ya Bard in ffxi was awsome I loved it back in the pre-abyssea days BRD BRD RDM WAR WAR WAR pulling chain 200+ mmmm memories =)
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#6 Nov 22 2010 at 9:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Bards will be very beneficial for both PvE and PvP. Those buffs will make a difference even if the buffs do end up not giving much.
#7 Nov 23 2010 at 12:26 AM Rating: Decent
28 posts
Yeah I doubt they will be as useful as they are in EQ2 but imagine the are going to be wanted for at least some raid content.. yeah solo I wouldn't spec it till end-game tbh. Stick with more dps spec till end-game then try to slowing work the bard spec to see how much difference it really makes. But them having so many classes kind of like EQ2 I imagine there will be a few that are going to be a wash as a class. Hopefully a bard is not one of them.
#8 Nov 23 2010 at 2:55 AM Rating: Decent
36 posts
I really can't say if I will use the bard. It will depend on what the rest of my guild chooses and if we don't have any buff or debuff class among us, than I will definatly consider putting some bard points in my rogue. If there is a bard any other buffer in the group I will not put points there, cause I would rather use those points for other talents. (This is all how I see it before I played it, so nothing is sure) But if I would use bard talents it would be at a higher level. Simply because it is known that bards aren't the easiest/fastest to level.
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#9 Nov 23 2010 at 7:51 AM Rating: Decent
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I will say this: The bards will be a staple of any progression raiding guild. Their buffs alone make their lack of solid dps trivial. They can keep 3-4 buffs/debuffs up all the time if they play their combo pts right. On top of that, they can do some aoe healing and they can stand at range if needed. Their mobility will help them focus on keeping up anthems/codas/etc while not standing in fire. Any serious raid guild without one is probably either looking for one or just ignorant of their benefit. Also, i'm quite sure Trion will scale the difficulty of the hard mode fights based on the inclusion of such a role present. They are very adamant about saying "we will create encounters for certain souls because we know you have such easy access to use them". I quite hope they remain true to that.

Bards in pvp will be nonexistent. They don't really do a whole lot. Russ Brown has publicly said that a bard in pvp is not ideal. He also said he's cool with that. They are letting us make the decisions on what we wanna play. With that said, they also don't want us stuck in the same role/spec for the entirety of our play time in Telara. So players can expect to be needed to perform different roles based on what the group/raid/guild needs.

In Closing: Bard is a definite for pve.
Bard is meh for pvp.
#10 Nov 23 2010 at 1:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Karma echoes an excellent point, as with any charachter one chooses to develop in any MMO, you need to look at your style and preference of play. If you are wanting to use the bard because of its namesake and personal sentiment, but are not comfortable with the utilitarian role, then you might find that frustrating and a waste of your time up front. This may be especially true if in this case there is no speed bonus to offset. But like metions made here, it is early and lots of unknowns so wait to make any decision as to whether it would be a waste. the Ranger/bard could prove to be a key in many raids/quests.
#11 Nov 24 2010 at 7:45 AM Rating: Good
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I expect to see a LOT of Bard/Ranger combo, I myself might play it, they just work out so well especially in pve. I stand at a distance grp buffing and doing damage without any worry of taking any... seems good.
#12 Nov 24 2010 at 8:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Bards would be very beneficial in this game. Just think of the combos you can put with it. So it won't be as defenseless as it was in FFXI. Having a DPS Bard would be awesome.
#13 Nov 24 2010 at 9:41 AM Rating: Decent
15 posts
They have already stated in an interview that they will be like eq1 bards where you can twist songs and get carpul tunnel. It willbe one of my saved roles for sure. The warlord soul also sounds like a buffer debuffer but it is a warrior soul.
#14 Nov 24 2010 at 11:02 AM Rating: Decent
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haha twisting :P oh the joy!

Nah I actually enjoyed twisting and never used melody ;P

you all bring up some good points: I wanted to be a pvp bard, but most likely won't go the bard route for pvp, but instead maybe for pve.
#15 Nov 26 2010 at 5:39 AM Rating: Decent
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I will like to play a Bard, and in muy opinion it doesnt matter in bards cant do tons of dps, as long as he will be useful for groups (not only for raids), so you can find groups and advance in the game.
#16 Nov 28 2010 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
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Bards will be a staple of PVE both groups and Raids of this I am sure. However I hope it isnt as extreme as in EQ2 where 4-5 bards are required per raid. I guess it all depends on how large raids/groups will be in reguards to how many of them will be needed/sought after.
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#17 Nov 28 2010 at 9:04 PM Rating: Decent
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If mana or sta is a issue in this game and a bard can give good regen to those always good to have. Tho thats how some other games have handled bard we will see what Rift does.
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#18 Dec 01 2010 at 1:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Every MMO it seems has their own take on how a bard functions, but it always comes down to the same, they're desired/wanted by many for their special dynamic they bring to a group/raid. I personally can't wait to try out the bard here and see how the class works.
#19 Dec 10 2010 at 4:54 PM Rating: Decent
37 posts
I never played a bard myself but had the pleasure of grouping/raiding with many of them in my EQ days. And a good bard was priceless. We could take a bard, tank and myself (Cleric) and do just about anything. * You guys are bringing back memories, good ones. *

I'll be interested in seeing how the Bards fare in RIFT. Only comparable class in games I've seen recently which really isn't close but sort of similar is a Paragon in Guild Wars.

Edited, Dec 10th 2010 5:57pm by Celestyn

Edited, Dec 10th 2010 5:57pm by Celestyn
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#20 Dec 11 2010 at 7:07 AM Rating: Decent
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in all games i was playing bard was ever a good choice at high lvl.From eq1 to vanguard if you find a game with bard implemented ..is a good class
#21 Dec 11 2010 at 4:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Bards will be very useful, all-around, utility. The question is how fun will they be to play?

Edited, Dec 11th 2010 6:17pm by Tyler1986
#22 Dec 14 2010 at 9:46 PM Rating: Decent
12 posts
Bards are a lame class. It's better of a Bard sort of system is treated like a profession.
#23 Dec 15 2010 at 2:27 AM Rating: Decent
No matter what game you play bards are going to be incredibly useful. Now I doubt that Rift bards will even begin to touch the greatness seen in vanguard bards at launch, but that isn't something you should expect.
The only problem I see right now is this global cooldown on abilities will short the bard dps by a lot if they are expected to keep up their long term buffs.
#24 Dec 15 2010 at 5:33 PM Rating: Decent
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ThorgrimGrudgebearer wrote:
No matter what game you play bards are going to be incredibly useful. Now I doubt that Rift bards will even begin to touch the greatness seen in vanguard bards at launch, but that isn't something you should expect.
The only problem I see right now is this global cooldown on abilities will short the bard dps by a lot if they are expected to keep up their long term buffs.


Bullseye!
#25 Dec 22 2010 at 9:22 AM Rating: Decent
32 posts
Bards are not likely meant to be primary DPS characters. They are a support character and have methods of supporting the group which involve damage.

Can't say more, but I maxed a bard this beta. It was fun and useful, and I have no doubt they will always have a home in a group or raid, though I dont' think they will be essential save for the min maxing groups :)
#26 Jan 12 2011 at 8:44 AM Rating: Decent
Bards in Rift seem more comparable to Bards in FFXI. While extremely beneficial to a group, they won't be mandatory by any means. As has been mentioned they're more of a utilitarian class, which is kinda ironic considering they're in the Rogue archetype. Personally, pure support classes have always been my favorite in games, so I'm looking forward to it.
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#27 Jan 26 2011 at 12:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Bards in pvp will be nonexistent. They don't really do a whole lot. Russ Brown has publicly said that a bard in pvp is not ideal. He also said he's cool with that. They are letting us make the decisions on what we wanna play. With that said, they also don't want us stuck in the same role/spec for the entirety of our play time in Telara. So players can expect to be needed to perform different roles based on what the group/raid/guild needs.


Bards can have a place in PVP too. While the Bard may not be doing as much damage or healing, they're making their whole team better at their jobs. With the right soul choices and point allocations, the bard can provide nice buffs and debuffs and healing, while also having some nice survivability.

I think much of the stigma that bards deal with for pvp comes from perception. A bard won't put out the big damage numbers that a ranger or assassin might, but they're giving those guys extra damage and crit. They won't have the healing numbers a cleric will, but they still provide pretty much constant heals and buffs. You give up some of your individual numbers to make your team better.

It's definitely not for for everyone, but bards can have a solid impact on pvp. The buffs and heals can add up rather quickly.

Bards make the team better, and pvp in this game is team based. It might not be ideal, but you can have fun and be effective, just adjust your mindset.

Edit - Making a bard pvp guide based on my experiences from last beta and this one. Again, not for everyone, but I love bards and I want to do my part to show how they have a place in both sides of the game.

Edited, Jan 26th 2011 1:06pm by Selinya
#28 Jan 28 2011 at 1:33 AM Rating: Decent
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I would think that a flat +20% in combat run buff would be integral to any group pvp scenario. That in of itself seems to warrant a Bard. Movement is king in any PVP game.
#29 Feb 11 2011 at 8:45 AM Rating: Decent
2 posts
I was playing a bard/marksmen build with the 20% in combat speed boost from bard that with the four motifs kept up along with marksmens self in combat speed buffs stacked up made it easy to kite the **** out of everyone. Tossed the extra points into riftstalker for the armor buff and being able to add the teleport in with the kiting skills But i was only level 27 or so so not a whole lot of points in marksmen or riftstalker left I didnt do as much damage as a pure marksmen or whatever but i was alive a lot longer.
#30 Feb 11 2011 at 12:05 PM Rating: Decent
1 post
I agree with plaid13 I played this exclusivly for last 3 beta's and it was amazing I did a combo of bard/rift/assasin(assasin just for stealth) replaced assasin for ranger for zero pt pet for soloing. For grouping I went down bard to group runspeed then to rifstalker. Rediculous survivability, great buffing/off healing all around great time playing it.

Wardyn 30 bard/riftstalker/ranger
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#31 Feb 13 2011 at 9:58 AM Rating: Decent
14 posts
I played a bard in the last beta. I gotta say, they are great in warfronts. I don't know where this 'bad for pvp' idea came from, but they can be game changing. IMO, if you're going to play support; go full support (51 point build).

Anthem (only one per bard):
-movement speed in combat
-Magic resistance
-reduction to cost of abilities
-Armor buff

Fanfare (only one per bard):
-Endurance buff
-Str/Dex buff
-Int/Wis buff

Motif:
Attack/Spell power buff
Crit buff
Health regen
Increase to healing recieved
Damage reduction
Note: while active, allies recieve +10% to all attributes

AoE Mes. 2min CD, 1.5sec cast
Single Target Mes. No CD, Instant cast.

Coda of Cowardice/Distress (debuffs):
-AoE increase to damage recieved and reduction in damage done

Verse of Joy:
3min CD. Lasts 15sec.
restores 50 mana, 5 power, energy, and charge per sec.

If your group sticks together, you're going to buff the heck out of everyone. 1 person to provide those listed raid-wide buffs is anything but terrible for PvP. I've joined some Black Garden warfronts where my faction was losing horribly, and with a bard around, were able to make a comeback and win. The (de)buffs and healing done provide a serious advantage for your raid. A bard can also end a round with the most healing done overall. You're not likely to keep alive a player who is focus fired by the enemy... but you keep everyone else topped off, and make the dedicated healer's job much easier.

Your main goal should be to live. A bard can't buff if (s)he is dead. So while you may do less DPS than everyone else, your effectiveness should have a much higher uptime than a DPS class; who typically dies more freequently.


Note: Bards also get some nice CDs to help out with raid healing when things get dire. Enough of a difference to be considered dedicated raid heals rather than the 'top off' effect they normally gain from Cadence.
#32 Feb 14 2011 at 2:11 AM Rating: Decent
3 posts
I played a cleric this past beta and was lucky enough to group with a bard in a 5 man dungeon. While they aren't a pure dps class, the buffs they give the other two dps make up for their lack of damage, as well as giving the tank more survivability.

As the healer (purifier) I was basically stuck spamming my best heal on the tank on almost every fight. There were many times when I couldn't even spare a global cooldown to heal anyone other than the tank. Having a bard in my group however took away so much pressure on heals. I went from spamming my biggest heal to literally healing everyone including the tank with a single HoT. Bards are amazing and I want one in every group I do.
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