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#1 Mar 27 2012 at 9:19 AM Rating: Decent
I've only been playing Rift for a few weeks & found this section of ZAM from an in-game prompt form another player - "Great; I use ZAM 'product' for WoW", I thought, "this should be a useful place to find info..." Not the case, a lot of the time...

Are there any plans to implement more of the Thottbot style search criteria & functionality to the Rift Database so that gear/recipes, etc can be found by 'Quest Reward' or "needs reputation with <Faction Name>"?
Aside form the general speed of search data being returned, the whole ZAM Rift setup here shows a lot of promise, but a year in - from game release - it seems to be still at the WIP stage.

Before you fire up your vitriolic response artillery, tell me I'm the only user who has to wait 10s of seconds for search queries to be returned &/or point me at what I need to do to make my whole experience here a more enjoyable one... I have ZAM Premium membership & the performance of the World of Warcraft sections of ZAM are infinitely superior in their server-side response.

Look forward to input from more seasoned veterans of Rift...
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#2 Mar 27 2012 at 9:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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The difference between what can be done with WoW's data and what can be done with Rift's data has a lot to do with what's in the data. Remember, WoW data can be "sniffed" and a heckuva lot of information can be acquired that way. Rift data we get mostly from Rift (upload your Discovery.logs!) and we are kinda stuck with what they release.

That said, if you want to post suggestions, be quite specific (I don't use Thottbot, so you need to give me enough information to explain it to our devs), and we can certainly find out if it's possible.

You shouldn't be waiting 10s for a database response, though. Mine take ~2s, I wonder what's logging yours down? Factions.. factions.. I'm not sure factions - item relations are in the data, I have to ask. One way to look at those is to find the faction merchant's page and look at their inventory. hm.

PS: I don't have a "vitriolic response artillery".

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#3 Mar 27 2012 at 10:57 AM Rating: Decent
I get what you mean, Cal, that the variety of data sourcing is what determines it's reliability... as in if more people uploaded - or even used - the discovery log tool, we'd get a better database.

Thottbot is now a part of WoWHead (they merged) and has a lot more search criteria for determining what results are return by the database search; I think WoWHead was originally a discussion site/forum, where Thottbot was primarilly a searching engine/database - the merger (?) seemed to add the discussion from WoWHead into the item data held on Thottbot.

The kind of things that I had in mind are options to:
1) expanding the boolean operator options to actively exclude stat's (stat = 0) in item searches; like Valor =0, to stop PvP items returning
2) adding a recognition check-box for crafted gear (only) to be returned for those who have skills, similar to (maybe as an alternative to) the 'no augmented items' option... or is that what the crafting items 'switch' is & I've misinterpreted it as 'return crafting materials'...?
3) where items are craftable & said items are made from recipe that require Faction reputation (or crafting Marks), maybe include these details in a tab with the Dropped By/Discoveries tabs; though it sound like that might involve more work than the benefit seen would generate. I know that Faction QM's can be looked up, but maybe if the there was a link-back option via the recipe to add to the awareness that the Factions offer crafting recipes and/or which ones they offer.

(LOL @ no V.R.A.)
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#4 Mar 27 2012 at 6:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Oh, I know what Thottbot is - it's comfy under my rock, but I do get out now and then! I'm just one of three people in the world who don't play WoW and therefore have never used the sites. I work on our Rift, EQII, and Free Realms sites and help out with some housekeeping on TorHead.

So. I've put a ticket in about Item - faction relationship and it didn't get shot down, so stay tuned.

For excluding stats, have you tried setting the value to 0? When I select Valor and set it to 0 I get http://rift.zam.com/en/itemlist.html?name=&slot=&quality=&level_low=&level_high=&type=&calling=&orderby=&stat1=valor&statval1=0 as a result. Note the "valor&statval1=0" bit. Are there Valor items in the results?

Not sure what you're actually asking for on #2, but sounds like you need to play with the searches a bit more. Faction information on recipes and/or their results. Hm. Let's see if we can actually get faction info first and see what that gets us.

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#5 Mar 28 2012 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
Hi. Cal; had a chance to play with searches & found where the seach feature shows room for (possible) improvement as far as Boolean searching goes.

Use this URL & you'll notice that the top cpl. of items have Toughness...

Dunno if that's been earmarked for a 'future improvement', but it would be nice to see the functionality added at some point.

Edited, Mar 28th 2012 2:18pm by Eighjan
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#6 Mar 28 2012 at 5:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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The faction thing is next on my to-do list. It should be simple enough.
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#7 Mar 28 2012 at 6:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Faction filter for items added! http://rift.zam.com/en/itemlist.html?1
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#8 Mar 28 2012 at 7:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eighjan wrote:
Hi. Cal; had a chance to play with searches & found where the seach feature shows room for (possible) improvement as far as Boolean searching goes.

Use this URL & you'll notice that the top cpl. of items have Toughness...

Dunno if that's been earmarked for a 'future improvement', but it would be nice to see the functionality added at some point.

I'm sorry, exactly what are you trying to show me? What did you set the filter to 0 for?
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#9 Mar 29 2012 at 11:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Calthine wrote:
Eighjan wrote:
Hi. Cal; had a chance to play with searches & found where the seach feature shows room for (possible) improvement as far as Boolean searching goes.

Use this URL & you'll notice that the top cpl. of items have Toughness...

Dunno if that's been earmarked for a 'future improvement', but it would be nice to see the functionality added at some point.

I'm sorry, exactly what are you trying to show me? What did you set the filter to 0 for?

I think he's trying to filter out stats by setting them to 0. In this case, setting valor to 0 to filter out PVP items.
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#10 Mar 30 2012 at 6:52 PM Rating: Decent
Cal: Valor & Toughness... but I guess it something the database can't handle, yet; not to worry, I'll wait & see what we get, when we're given it. :)
Thanks for the Faction filter - not played with it yet, but will soon.
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#11 Apr 28 2012 at 4:52 AM Rating: Decent
Apologies for the revisit, but I've had a 'different approach' thought on a suggestion:

As an enthusiastic advocate of using crafted equipment, is it possible to add a new column to the database results listings to show the Source of an item - Drop/Crafted/Vendor - (even time-line the option to be added, for such time as datamining allows for this information to be seen)? Yes; items that are dropped have listings of who/what has been found to source the drop, on their item pages, but you need to know that it IS a drop & what it's called before you look to see who/what it drops off as the database stands.
By adding a Source column to query results, it could (would?) promote the use of the database as a source of equipment progression.

How many crafters wonder if they can make a better piece of equipment for themselves & find they have exhausted all Trainer avenues?
Posit: Need a better Sword; what's available? I'm a Weaponsmith; can I make one? Dunno... not with what I know. Trainer/Marks vendor... nothing left to learn.
*interrogate ZAM database; crafted items are shown* Ahh; where do I get the recipe for THAT...? *Faction Z* Damn; not enough rep., but close. What's the drop-rate for alternatives? Only from Raid X or Y?? Rep. grinding time... :-/
Gotta be a scenario played out by 00's if not 000's of players... listing that an item is crafted in the database results gives crafters a better insight into other-than-Trainer-sourced recipes. Or am I the only on that doesn't check out what every Faction has to offer by way of Crafting options before I learn a Skill on a character?

Further to that, we have 'Exclude Augmented items' - is 'Show ONLY Augmented Items' possible to do, now/later?


Final thought by way of bringing home the fruitlessness of asking what I have in this whole thread - are Rift players sufficiently knowledgeable about gearing progression to not need a database to help them?

Edited, Apr 28th 2012 7:05am by Eighjan

Edited, Apr 28th 2012 7:06am by Eighjan
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#12 Apr 28 2012 at 5:17 AM Rating: Decent
Just re-read Cal's first reply to the thread when I started it... it's Trion that are the bottleneck to the database information available... if they don't allow the data to be sourced, why am I even bothering to look to better the way data is displayed?
ZAM has database professionals able to include way more information than I can dream of; if the data isn't there to BE displayed, I doubt ZAM won't be 10 steps ahead of me in database design & already have plans to be able to show the data requested when it is MADE available... they came up with/have access to the Thottbot model, so it isn't inconceivable to transpose the thinking to here... :(

Time for me to stop asking for stuff that's undoubtedly been thought of already.
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#13 Apr 28 2012 at 10:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Eighjan wrote:
Time for me to stop asking for stuff that's undoubtedly been thought of already.


No, please don't stop! We're bound do lose some gems if you do!

Eighjan wrote:
ZAM has database professionals able to include way more information than I can dream of; if the data isn't there to BE displayed, I doubt ZAM won't be 10 steps ahead of me in database design


That's tremendously flattering, thank you! One reason to keep asking is Trion keeps adding to and fine-tuning the data, so something we couldn't do at launch might be possible now. And since most of us work on multiple sites, we might need it brought to our attention :)

Edited, Apr 28th 2012 12:10pm by Calthine
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#14 Apr 28 2012 at 10:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Eighjan wrote:
is it possible to add a new column to the database results listings to show the Source of an item - Drop/Crafted/Vendor

We do that on the EQ2 ZAM site. If it's in the data it should be possible.

Eighjan wrote:
Further to that, we have 'Exclude Augmented items' - is 'Show ONLY Augmented Items' possible to do, now/later?

I can certainly ask!

Edited, Apr 28th 2012 12:10pm by Calthine
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#15 Apr 28 2012 at 12:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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As of right now, the source isn't really easy to find out (i.e. it's not in their data). I have it doing some determining and putting it into a meta tagble. Crafted isn't on there yet. Let me see about that.
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#16 Apr 28 2012 at 12:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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adding dropped/crafted/bought now. Already have rune/artifact/quest_item/ingredient

Reward from quest will be a bit more difficult since it's something like 4 separate tables.
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#17 Apr 29 2012 at 4:00 PM Rating: Decent
Cheers, acprog - I've seen the updates to the database searching & love them... nicely done.
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#18 Jun 27 2012 at 6:48 PM Rating: Good
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Bumping since it's kinda related to the item DB.

How long does it usually take until the DB is updated with newer items? I saw they added a Planar Hero tier of equipment for those who got stuff through Inscribed Sourcestones, and the fact there wasn't a new tier for this with ID's launch was one of the reasons I'd unsubbed. However, while I can check the ones sold in Sanctum through a trial character, I'm afraid I can't see the stats for those sold by the EI factions. I'm somewhat inclined to resub now since this gear would give me something productive to chase as a non-raider, but knowing more while Trion works out some kinks with IA and Conquest would be nice.
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#19 Jun 27 2012 at 11:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Seriha wrote:
Bumping since it's kinda related to the item DB.

How long does it usually take until the DB is updated with newer items? I saw they added a Planar Hero tier of equipment for those who got stuff through Inscribed Sourcestones, and the fact there wasn't a new tier for this with ID's launch was one of the reasons I'd unsubbed. However, while I can check the ones sold in Sanctum through a trial character, I'm afraid I can't see the stats for those sold by the EI factions. I'm somewhat inclined to resub now since this gear would give me something productive to chase as a non-raider, but knowing more while Trion works out some kinks with IA and Conquest would be nice.


Our parser runs automagically almost as soon as Trion releases the data. So unless something has changed that would cause us to need to tweak the parser, stuff goes in pretty quick.

Right now all our data except Planar Attunement was updated today. PA needed a tweak :) If it's not in there then it probably hasn't been disco'd.
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#20 Jun 28 2012 at 1:21 AM Rating: Good
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Hmm, guess it's either of those. Saw this while checking with one of my old sub-20 characters. Personally still in the dark on the legs, gloves, belt, and helm since they're sold on EI, but I guess I can try to assume based on changes between current/old pieces.
#21 Aug 02 2012 at 8:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Any chance to get the 'weights' added to the search results for filtering items based on stats? This is something that I brought up in a previous post and doesn't look like it's been implemented. It seems rather simple to build in SQL with a calculated field based on parameters.
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