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#27 Apr 28 2014 at 5:26 PM Rating: Good
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:
There is no greater joy in this game than brutally smashing "gimmick" decks like a MurLock deck without having to resort to such gimmicks yourself.
What's gimmicky about that deck?


I'm not surprised you don't find that gimmicky, coming from Magic. That game is almost nothing but gimmicks.

At least, from an outside observer.
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#28 Apr 29 2014 at 1:44 AM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
The gimmick is that you can hold back the cards, due to their low cost, enabling you to play them all at a later turn, preventing your opponent from setting up a counter.
The gimmick is that you can use tactics to make the best use of your cards? I'm not saying it's not overpowered cause it very well could be, just that as far as gimmicks go, that's a pretty weak gimmick. Especially in the video you linked, he didn't play much different from any other game of Hearthstone I've seen him play, the deck is just strong because a big alpha strike is hard to stop and card draw is limited to pretty much only Warlocks as far as I've seen which gives locks an absolutely insane card advantage.

Especially in a game that almost entirely revolves around 1 for 1-ing your opponents cards, being the only one able to draw more cards consistently and easily without constraining how many things you can play each turn is ridiculously powerful and Blizzard should have seen it coming (Magic has had this issue first crop up almost 2 decades ago with Necropotence Skip your normal draw and you can pay 1 life to remove the top card of your library from the game and put it in your hand at the beginning of the next turn (either yours or your opponents turn), it basically allows you to draw X cards for X life every turn while also avoiding things that punish drawing cards, the card is still banned in one of the two formats it's legal in and one of the very best cards in the other format. and various weaker alternatives have proven to still be too powerful to see play).


IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:
There is no greater joy in this game than brutally smashing "gimmick" decks like a MurLock deck without having to resort to such gimmicks yourself.
What's gimmicky about that deck?


I'm not surprised you don't find that gimmicky, coming from Magic. That game is almost nothing but gimmicks.

At least, from an outside observer.
It mostly just seems like making good use of game mechanics to me, not something degenerate of broken. In Magic decks like Manaless Dredge or Oops All Spells are pretty gimmicky but they can only be played in a format that is all about doing ridiculously broken things so it's all part of the game there and doesn't influence any other parts of the game. And people love it because who doesn't love being able to put a creature in play that hits for three quarters of your opponents life on your first turn? Yet the metagame is still balanced (and the crazy combo decks aren't the best decks either) so it doesn't hurt the game.

Although doing such broken things is impossible in Hearthstone to begin with so comparing Hearthstone to Legacy magic is a bit like comparing apples to oranges. Compare Hearthstone to Standard or limited (Draft/Sealed, so kind of like Arena) and while Magic has more possibilities it's a lot more comparable with Hearthstone being kind of like a simplified version with less interaction and no instant castable things. And not very surprisingly, standard and limited Magic looks a lot more like Hearthstone in how it plays out.
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#29 Apr 29 2014 at 6:58 AM Rating: Good
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I've been raising up a paladin deck for the last couple days. It's been pretty fun. The lack of minions stymies the hunters a bit.
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#30 Apr 29 2014 at 7:58 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
I've been raising up a paladin deck for the last couple days. It's been pretty fun. The lack of minions stymies the hunters a bit.
If you have any Wild Pyromancers, they combo nicely with Equality for a 4 mana board wipe. Equality/Consecration is nice, too.

The weapon that gives +1/+1 on summon can be really great versus Mage, since it will make it difficult to maintain board advantage if they can't ping your Recruits.

Paladin is my favorite class. It's too bad I'm terrible at it. Smiley: lol
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#31 Apr 29 2014 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
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Spoonless wrote:
Elinda wrote:
I've been raising up a paladin deck for the last couple days. It's been pretty fun. The lack of minions stymies the hunters a bit.
If you have any Wild Pyromancers, they combo nicely with Equality for a 4 mana board wipe. Equality/Consecration is nice, too.

The weapon that gives +1/+1 on summon can be really great versus Mage, since it will make it difficult to maintain board advantage if they can't ping your Recruits.

Paladin is my favorite class. It's too bad I'm terrible at it. Smiley: lol

I like all the divine shields. Used wisely you can get you a lot of mileage out of a little minion.
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#32 Apr 29 2014 at 10:30 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, I don't think it's gimmicky. I mean "Murlock" is sort of gimmicky in theme, but it's not gimmicky in play style.

I mean, pretty much every deck in Hearthstone is built with most of the attention on the low-budget minions. Bang for the buck is just so much higher; a surefire way to lose the game is to not have enough low-mana draws to keep control of your field through early game.

Murlock decks revolve around cards that are generally underpowered when used alone, but much more powerful when used together. It's not really a gimmick, it's just that they're cards that shine with synergy. They're not alone in that; cards like Knife Juggler are awesome with synergy, but underpowered for their cost otherwise.

But to use a Murlock deck, you can't just hold onto your Murlocks until you zerg later, because if you have no control of the field until you can do that, you'll lose. And even worse, you won't BE ABLE to unleash your zerg if your opponent can trade all your murlocks (or worse, your buffing murlocks) in the meantime.

Really, Murlock decks play like other early-mid game decks. You trade minion for minion, and use your spells to try and keep control of the board. But because you have to be really careful about what Murlocks you play (partly to keep the opponent from figuring out your entire deck right away, and partly because you HAVE to save them for your burst moments), Warlock has the best synergy with the play style (imo), since they get increased draws.

And if you lose control of the board, it can be much harder to get it back with a Murlock deck, specifically because you've chosen a strategy that requires synergy to be effective. Which is why you don't want your opponent to know you're playing a Murlock deck too early. Then they know that the way to counter you is to hammer you hard earlier, because you won't be able to counter it and it'll turtle you to endgame when you can pull out bigger baddies than the Murlock deck has.
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#33 Apr 29 2014 at 10:48 AM Rating: Good
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I've seen weirder themes than Murlocks, Merfolk and Faeries are pretty wacky tribes and Humans just sounds so very wrong, "I'm playing a humans deck!" when people are throwing around gods and dragons and hydra's and giant immortal immortal beings that destroy worlds. It's a little silly.
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#34 Apr 29 2014 at 11:47 AM Rating: Good
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A lot of decks feel gimmicky in Hearthstone because in many of them, you're just stalling until you have lethal in your hand, then you play your finishing combo. I think any deck that revolves around a specific card combo can feel gimmicky, though I might not necessarily say they are gimmicky. Decks where your cards have great synergy but maybe not necessarily have super combos don't feel as if they are as much of a gimmick.
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#35 Apr 29 2014 at 4:56 PM Rating: Good
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With 3 dailies, I have to win 2 games with 6 classes...

/sigh.

[EDIT]

The plus side is that I can level 1 sub-10 class for each.

Edited, Apr 29th 2014 6:56pm by idiggory
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#36 Apr 29 2014 at 6:52 PM Rating: Good
F dailies in every game ever.
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#37 Apr 30 2014 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
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Everyone I face on ladder today: "Oh, you've finally stabilized? LEEEEROY JEEENNNNNNNNKINSSSS!!!"

Smiley: mad
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#38 Apr 30 2014 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Mazra wrote:
The gimmick is that you can hold back the cards, due to their low cost, enabling you to play them all at a later turn, preventing your opponent from setting up a counter.
The gimmick is that you can use tactics to make the best use of your cards?


The gimmick is that you hide your intentions from your opponent until it's too late for him to do anything about it, because if he does, you're boned. Compare it to the Dark Templar or 6-pool (Zerg) rush in StarCraft 2. If your opponent doesn't scout it, you're very likely to win the game, but if he does, you're going to be behind by so much it's **** near impossible to catch up.

His Excellency Aethien wrote:
I'm not saying it's not overpowered cause it very well could be, just that as far as gimmicks go, that's a pretty weak gimmick. Especially in the video you linked, he didn't play much different from any other game of Hearthstone I've seen him play, the deck is just strong because a big alpha strike is hard to stop and card draw is limited to pretty much only Warlocks as far as I've seen which gives locks an absolutely insane card advantage.


It's not overpowered, per se, because as mentioned earlier, it's possible to lock down your opponent if you spot the build early on. The reason people hate it is because of the same reason people hate being 6-pooled in StarCraft 2 or, ****, ganked in World of Warcraft: If your opponent pulls it off, you get decimated to a degree where the game seems imbalanced or you seem incompetent. It's very demoralizing, and one might argue that it takes the fun out of the game for the player being hammered into the ground.
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#39 May 01 2014 at 4:05 AM Rating: Good
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Hiding your intentions from your opponent isn't a gimmick, it's playing well. And I don't see how you could not see it coming, it sounds like a popular deck and with the amount of murlocks needed to make it work you're going to see some in the first 2 or 3 turns if you weren't already assuming it was a murlock deck as soon as you saw you were playing a warlock.
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#40 May 01 2014 at 5:37 AM Rating: Good
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Hiding your intentions from your opponent isn't a gimmick, it's playing well.


Since I get the impression that one of us is a bit unsure what the word 'gimmick' means, I'll quote the dictionary just for future reference:

Quote:
gim·mick [gim-ik]
noun

  • an ingenious or novel device, scheme, or stratagem, especially one designed to attract attention or increase appeal.
  • a concealed, usually devious aspect or feature of something, as a plan or deal: An offer that good must have a gimmick in it somewhere.
  • a hidden mechanical device by which a magician works a trick or a gambler controls a game of chance.
  • Electronics Informal. a capacitor formed by intertwining two insulated wires.

verb (used with object)
  • to equip or embellish with unnecessary features, especially in order to increase salability, acceptance, etc. (often followed by up ): to gimmick up a sports car with chrome and racing stripes.


Edited, May 1st 2014 1:37pm by Mazra
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#41 May 01 2014 at 6:06 AM Rating: Good
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I think this argument is a gimmick.

I started an arena deck last night. I'm up to six wins, one loss. Then I had to go to bed then. So far I've not had more than 4 wins on an arena deck. I'm excited for my phat lootz!

I'm still liking the Paladin deck. I have a deck made for all the hero's now. I feel like with a normalish draw of cards the Paladin would beat all my other hero's except the Hunter...and could certainly beat the hunter with a bit o' luck.
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#42 May 01 2014 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
I think this argument is a gimmick.


N- wait, what? Oh, ****...
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#43 May 01 2014 at 2:21 PM Rating: Good
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apparently there's a fireside gathering happening near campus tomorrow. I might have to go check it out and get my card back!
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#44 May 02 2014 at 6:49 AM Rating: Good
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Druid just tossed down Onyxia, and the next turn used Savage Roar...

Man I wish I was on my Mage for that.

Also, I HATE Hunter. That is all.
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#45 May 02 2014 at 8:15 AM Rating: Good
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UNLEASH THE SKILL
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#46 May 02 2014 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
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I know. I'm not playing my Hunter deck ...cuz it feels cheap.

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#47 May 02 2014 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
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I exclusively play shaman in ranked, mostly because I don't have all the good legendaries/rares for other decks Smiley: frown. I think I'd avoid hunter at all costs though, at least in the current meta.

In other news, I learned of a local fireside gathering happening tonight near me, thinking I might go and get that card back.
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#48 May 02 2014 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
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Vataro wrote:
I exclusively play shaman in ranked, mostly because I don't have all the good legendaries/rares for other decks Smiley: frown. I think I'd avoid hunter at all costs though, at least in the current meta.

In other news, I learned of a local fireside gathering happening tonight near me, thinking I might go and get that card back.


I play mainly Hunter in ranked and do decent I usually win 3-4/5, honestly I'm not that good though. As for that fireside gathering thing I looked up one in my area now i have to decide if I can be anti- antisocial for one night. Its being hosted at http://www.verneandwells.com/ a local geek club house and I could meet people in my field, so I could find internships easier. (BTW that is a really expensive club ($100/mo.) but it does have nice amenities.)
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#49 May 02 2014 at 1:48 PM Rating: Good
That club looks like fun. Smiley: smile
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#50 May 02 2014 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
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Master Shojindo wrote:
That club looks like fun. Smiley: smile
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#51 May 02 2014 at 3:26 PM Rating: Good
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Spoonless wrote:
Master Shojindo wrote:
That club looks like fun. Smiley: smile

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