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#1 May 21 2013 at 6:26 PM Rating: Default
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The reason I felt this was relevant is because it might potentially alter the entire future of gaming. While I don't know the exact pricing of said fee, apparently each game you buy will be linked to your xbox profile where a code needs to be redeemed. There are a couple of caveats here that seem to be true thus far.

a.) You have to have internet connection to verify game each time you want to play. Therefore, if your internet is down you can't play any of your "offline" games. Bye bye rural DSL gamers.

b.) The game is linked to your profile. So if your roommate, who went in halfzies on the game with you, wants to start his or her own saved games it would have to be under their xbox profile (so far normal) but would be required to pay said fee to have access.

c.) This eliminates "borrowing". Sorry guys no more friendly "yea John, of course you can borrow my copy of Mass effect 10 that I purchased with my money in exchange for your copy of Halo 10 that you purchased with your own money."

d.) This one is merely conjecture at this point, but it is rumored that the fee might be pretty steep. Like, close to retail.


With PC gaming this sort of activation was necessary because for a very long time PC games could be EASILY duplicated and burnt onto a new CD/DVD. Hence the reason we don't see PC games selling used at all; everyone would just buy it, copy it, and return it. What are your thoughts on this direction gaming is headed? Me personally? I find that purely on principle the whole thing turns me off of console gaming altogether...at least on the Xbox.

Edit: additional Question - Do you think Sony will follow suit?

Edited, May 21st 2013 8:40pm by electromagnet83

Edited, May 21st 2013 8:40pm by electromagnet83
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#2 May 21 2013 at 6:40 PM Rating: Decent
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#3 May 21 2013 at 6:42 PM Rating: Good
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#4 May 21 2013 at 6:45 PM Rating: Good
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electromagnet83 wrote:
With PC gaming this sort of activation was necessary because for a very long time PC games could be EASILY duplicated and burnt onto a new CD/DVD.


And it wasn't exactly difficult or rare to do with the 360...

So it's OK that there isn't a used PC game market, because PC games are easily duplicated and pirated. But it's not OK for the 360 to implement similar methods for the same reason?

Edited, May 21st 2013 8:46pm by TirithRR
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#5 May 21 2013 at 7:12 PM Rating: Default
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TirithRR wrote:
electromagnet83 wrote:
With PC gaming this sort of activation was necessary because for a very long time PC games could be EASILY duplicated and burnt onto a new CD/DVD.


And it wasn't exactly difficult or rare to do with the 360...

So it's OK that there isn't a used PC game market, because PC games are easily duplicated and pirated. But it's not OK for the 360 to implement similar methods for the same reason?

Edited, May 21st 2013 8:46pm by TirithRR


The PCs motivation for online activation was to deter software piracy. I'm sure we can all agree that with torrents and even a moderately tech savvy person is a HUGE problem. Xbox's motivation is different. It is simply to deter used game sales which , for a long time, has been a legit business. They are doing it to tell us that if we want to play a game we didn't buy new we will have to pay (according to the current information) about 65% of the retail price in the form of an activation code..which is of course on top of whatever you paid for the used disc itself.
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#6 May 21 2013 at 8:28 PM Rating: Good
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If this is where gaming is really going then I don't see a disc being part of the actual product much longer. Seems it would be easier to just sell it all digitally. It's easier to make you feel you don't actually own something if you can't really put your hands on it. No more physical media means higher profits too. I feel DRM will kill gaming sooner or later. Which one remains to be seen.
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#7 May 21 2013 at 8:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
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TirithRR wrote:
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#8 May 22 2013 at 8:05 AM Rating: Good
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electromagnet83 wrote:
I'm sure we can all agree that with torrents and even a moderately tech savvy person is a HUGE problem.
People that aren't going to buy a game aren't going to buy a game. That's all there is to it. There are two types of bootleggers; The kind that download, play, and decide afterwards whether the game is worth their money and the type that download games with no intention of paying for it. The second group isn't going to just start paying for games because the companies decided to take away their ability to play those games, however long that lasts. So all that's left is the first group, who will either not bother buying or they'll start risking their money on products they haven't tried first. My bet is they won't bother either, but who knows. And if the recent Sims release is any evidence, you're also annoying the **** out of your "blind" customers who purchase without testing.

Really, torrents and such don't hurt a company nearly as much as they'd like you to believe it does, but the always-on and other anti-piracy tactics will hurt them more.

Edited, May 22nd 2013 10:05am by lolgaxe
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#9 May 22 2013 at 9:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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What GA said is true. If Im working at Walmart barely making enough to feed myself and put a roof over my head, torrenting/pirating sounds great. I mean I would never be able to get the games in the first place. But I also agree with Steam isnt not a piracy problem (that will always be there) its a DRM/Publisher/pricing problem.

Years ago I used to work at Walmart and almost all of my games were pirated. If i didnt pirate them I could have never afforded to play them anyway. Pirated games are usually buggy like to crash and overall a pain to install and get around DRM. But sometimes its the opposite, The DRM in the original is so horrendous that the pirated version is easier or less intrusive over all, also a pricing problem. Most games today arent worth 60 dollars, most games back then werent either.

Publishers drop so much into a game now days that they are forced to market it at premium, between licencing fees, over inflated sale predictions, and general money grubbing. They are slowly putting themselves into a place where they will never make a profit becuase they put more in than they get back. Look at SE and the Tomb raider/Sleeping Dogs debacle. Both games "under preformed to them" yet sold a combined like 4+ million copies, and both games got pretty decent reviews/critical acclaim.

Yet games like Dark Souls sell 2 million and they're having a party and super excited. Big publishers like to thik throwing more money at something should return more money, instead its the opposite they force themselves into a place where its impossible to make a return on investment.
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#10 May 22 2013 at 3:19 PM Rating: Decent
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It'll be fun when all we can buy is digital copies of games for $80. They do still have to manufacture all of those 1's and 0's after all. And hitting that copy button requires someone with a masters on staff full time.
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#11 May 22 2013 at 3:31 PM Rating: Good
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I don't think I've ever pirated a game, but I frankly would be willing to pirate one just to use it as a makeshift demo.

But I'm also not a launch gamer. Short of the major titles I'm GOING to buy at launch, regardless, I don't buy them until way later, when they're cheap and on sale.

Of course, the fact that console games never really have sales really makes that rougher.
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#12 May 22 2013 at 4:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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DamienSScott wrote:
It'll be fun when all we can buy is digital copies of games for $80. They do still have to manufacture all of those 1's and 0's after all.

Well... ummm... yeah. Paying someone to put the 1's and 0's in the correct order IS the lion's share of the cost. You didn't think you were buying $50 worth of plastic and metal foil, did you?
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#13 May 22 2013 at 5:05 PM Rating: Good
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Well obviously not, but I do know that I'm paying the same price as a physical copy just to get a download now. I'm sure manufacturing costs go into the price somewhere, It would be nice to see that reflected in the cost, especially since you don't even get manuals now a days.

Sorry for the sarcasim, didn''t know this part of zam was immunized for it.
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#14 May 22 2013 at 5:18 PM Rating: Good
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How much do you think it costs them to mass produce that CD/DVD/Blu-ray? Are you thinking you should get a 25-30% discount for them not spending one to two dollars to put it on a DVD?
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#15 May 22 2013 at 5:28 PM Rating: Good
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According to the wiki, 5% of the profits of a console video game went in manufacturing in 2006 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_development ). That's $3.00/game.

I don't care for several reasons ($3 is nothing and the difference is trifling at 75% off), but it would be a nice bonus for those that do buy games online and a small incentive to bring people off of physical discs for consoles.


Of course, that was 2006. The digital market has exploded since then and I'm guessing that manufacturing is one area that has been cutback on just to keep the new release price at $60.

Edited, May 22nd 2013 6:29pm by xypin
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#16 May 22 2013 at 5:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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On the PC, direct distribution has caused a lot of games to be available for cheap. Since they don't take up real estate with physical stock, retailers can offer games that would otherwise be of limited value shelf-wise. And, since they're older and have either made back their costs (of the publisher cut bait on them), they're cheap as ****.

If going primarily digital caused the same price effects on consoles as they have on PCs, I'd be begging consoles to go digital. Well, if I had a console. Which I don't.

Edited, May 22nd 2013 6:31pm by Jophiel
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#17 May 22 2013 at 7:03 PM Rating: Decent
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A lot of this has strayed off topic but the general clamoring among comment fields and reviews on other sites show that the public seems pretty discontent with Microsoft bending them over like this. Add to that the fact that games took a back seat in a presentation that was supposed to be about....well, games and you end up with quite the blunder.

I have tried not to be a fanboy of either Xbox or Sony, but I'm interested to see what Sony's press conference will hold. If they do NOT charge a fee to play used games, that alone is going to cause the masses to flock over to the Ps4.
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#18 May 22 2013 at 10:45 PM Rating: Good
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If all gamers would team up and simply refuse to buy into this scheme they would be forced to reverse their decision. People won't though. Too many people will mindless buy right into it without a care in the world. This personally angers me and if it is implemented I will not buy the system.
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#19 May 23 2013 at 8:38 AM Rating: Good
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If all gamers would team up and simply refuse to buy into this scheme they would be forced to reverse their decision. People won't though. Too many people will mindless buy right into it without a care in the world. This personally angers me and if it is implemented I will not buy the system.

Most people won't even realize these features exist, because most people using gaming consoles don't follow gaming news all that closely.

My brother, for instance, has a 360. He bought a kinect last week, because he was curious, and because it meant he could get some games for my mother to play with my niece as her Mother's Day gift.

Other than that, it gets used for streaming sports/netflix, or playing CoD (blissfully, with everyone muted).

He'd probably buy the next xbox, just because it's the system he's used to using. Having to learn a new controller format alone would be annoying for him. So all this annoying quirks would probably escape his notice completely until he discovered them post-purchase.

Sure, they'll be "Requires internet connection" on the box. But who is ACTUALLY going to notice that?
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#20 May 23 2013 at 8:42 AM Rating: Good
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People that don't have it connected to the internet regularly would probably notice it pretty quick. I can't remember the last time I bothered with my 360.
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#21 May 23 2013 at 9:02 AM Rating: Good
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So, now there's this.

https://twitter.com/XboxSupport3/status/336924786410278912
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#22 May 23 2013 at 9:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Based off of my "Pullingitoutofmyasstimates" Microsoft lost 40% of their gamer customer base after the announcement, so they're backpedaling on a lot of statement to get people back long enough to buy a system.
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#23 May 23 2013 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
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If it wasn't true, why did a VP of Microsoft tell us it might/will be the case in the first place?

I bet this is a policy that had been seriously considered and and is still a likely scenario that Microsoft is prepared to implement with a single update.
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#24 May 23 2013 at 9:13 AM Rating: Good
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That Paul Mitchell guy sure is ******** himself.
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#25 May 23 2013 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
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Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
Based off of my "Pullingitoutofmyasstimates" Microsoft lost 40% of their gamer customer base after the announcement, so they're backpedaling on a lot of statement to get people back long enough to buy a system.


Except that twitter message was posted before the stuff from the VP and that nelson guy.
#26 May 23 2013 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
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It's pretty clear that Microsoft is a mess internally with this stuff. The only thing I can imagine is that they rapidly pushed up the entire calendar, to ensure the PS4 couldn't launch with the same advantage they had this past generation.

Nothing else makes sense to explain this extent of disorder. Particularly not when we're talking about a MAJOR product like the Xbox One.

At the end of the day, it's just really bad PR. There's always this sense, internally, that you need the highest level admin to publicly speak about a product. And that's certainly not unsubstantiated.

But the other reality is that, if they can't eloquently and accurately speak on the subject, they should NOT be interacting with the press about it, at all, until a time that they can. A delay there is WAY better than a botched presentation.

Choose the highest level exec that can actually speak on the subject, and let them do the talking. You can have the high level execs give presentations, since they don't have to know crap to memorize a speech, if you want. But don't schedule interviews.
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