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#127 May 23 2013 at 2:46 PM Rating: Good
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Well, looks like the 8800 GTX was out in Nov. 2006, equipped with 768 MB GDDR3 RAM. From wiki:
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The GeForce 8800 GTX was by far the fastest GPU when first released, and 13 months after its initial debut it still remained one of the fastest. The GTX has 128 stream processors clocked at 1.35 GHz, a core clock of 575 MHz, and 768 MB of 384-bit GDDR3 memory at 1.8 GHz, giving it a memory bandwidth of 86.4 GB/s.
Apparently it originally retailed for around $600.

For CPUs, the Core 2 Extreme QX6700 came out in Nov. 2006 as well, clocked at 2.67 GHz, for around $1000.

You're probably talking around 2 GB DDR2 1066 for RAM.

Edit: Oh, neat! I found a Tweaktown article on building a gaming PC from 2006 here.

The relevant part:
Screenshot


Edited, May 23rd 2013 4:48pm by Spoonless
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#128 May 23 2013 at 3:20 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
TirithRR wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I like that installation of games will now be possible, since it has a built-in HDD.


That's been a feature on the 360 for quite some time now. Not exactly new. PS3 was ahead on that one only because it was forced to because of the relative slowness of Blu-ray.


I feel like this... is misleading.

The 360 didn't have an install feature because not all 360s have HDDs...

I mean, yes, the installation feature was very much partly to address the speed issue of blurays. But the result was that load times for the PS3 were WAY faster than load time for 360 when considering cross-platform games.

Yeah, it's possible now. But it SHOULD have been possible at launch. And the fact there won't be a repeat of that hassle is important.

Plus, I wasn't really trying to name features I liked relative to the 360. I was just trying to name features I liked, period. I only noted the HDD thing to point out why I cared, with that being an issue with the original 360, though I can definitely see that my language was VERY misleading there.


You're the one that's being misleading on this one. The vast majority of 360s have hard drives (including the launch models). Only the absolute bottom of the barrel budget models that very few people actually bought don't. Just because the minority couldn't install to the hard drive doesn't mean that the system in general didn't support the feature.

Edited, May 23rd 2013 5:27pm by Turin
#129 May 23 2013 at 3:23 PM Rating: Good
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#130 May 23 2013 at 3:28 PM Rating: Good
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Care to clarify, or did you just want to pretend to be superior while I invalidate your point?
#131 May 23 2013 at 4:22 PM Rating: Good
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Turin wrote:

You're the one that's being misleading on this one. The vast majority of 360s have hard drives (including the launch models). Only the absolute bottom of the barrel budget models that very few people actually bought don't. Just because the minority couldn't install to the hard drive doesn't mean that the system in general didn't support the feature.

Edited, May 23rd 2013 5:27pm by Turin



There is a good handful of game (Halo Reach/4) that wont play on he 4 gig cheapo 360 because they NEED the install space. Placing some games in a 4 gig will error out saying not enough drive space to play the game. I often would here people come in asking about that. Some games even had to start listing it onb the package ( Installation required).

Thats another thing about the Xbox nickel and diming you. The Standard HDD on a launch 360 was 20 gigs I believe. that would be terrible around now when everything wants to install, and you cant replace it with anything other then the proprietary HDD. I mean My PS3 160 gig was full, and I tossed in a spare 320 7400 Rpm from a laptop.

Also wanted to point out one thing about internet checking/Xbox live. Consoles are designed to be affordable, unlike custom gaming pcs . Most people from lower class that buy them do so around tax time. So what happens if go forbi you get laid off and cant have net? Dead system. I have a few friends that go months without net because he works a job for 12, his wife is stay at home mom with there under 5 kids. Sometimes internet just isnt a necessity above food.
He has a ps3 he got with taxes, if it had been an Xbox One it would be a dead system.

Thats really the entire argument to defeat this stupid always online BS. I mean 20% of American houses dont have internet, and if you took smart phones off that list maybe higher with no landline internet. I understand a good percentage of those people would never buy an Xbox one, but how many have kids they would pick one up for for a birthday etc.
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#132 May 23 2013 at 4:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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You're probably talking around 2 GB DDR2 1066 for RAM.

WinXP handled 4GB so if we're doing "top of the line" seems like you'd want to go with four.

My old i3-530 duo core with 4GB RAM and my 9800 GTX+ handled Skyrim just fine at greater resolution than you get out of a PS3. Looked a lot better than the PS3 version as well (my son has it). I'd be willing to bet a top of the line 2006 system could have handled it. But what a PS3 could handle at the ed of its life cycle isn't too telling since the games were being designed for antiquated systems. If games were being designed around i5 or i7's, the PS3 life cycle would have ended years earlier.

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#133 May 23 2013 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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Okay, yeah, that was too much. I apologize, I was ****** because I was sitting in stopped traffic and it wasn't your fault.

That said,

Quote:
though I can definitely see that my language was VERY misleading there.


As for the subject matter, the majority of 360s had hard drives, but installation wasn't possible regardless. That was added in 2008, 3 years after the system launched. My comments of my liking it for the Xbox One had to do with the fact that the potential that a user couldn't install would not be a factor in content decisions now.

With the current system, a feature that would drive up load times for a console without an HDD would be abandoned. With a model in which every system involves installation, that is no longer an issue. The Core, and later Arcade, were on the market until mid 2010.

So, yes, users can install now on the xbox 360. They couldn't at launch, and the fact that not all could still be a real, and significant, influence on product development.
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#134 May 23 2013 at 4:44 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Spoonless wrote:
You're probably talking around 2 GB DDR2 1066 for RAM.

WinXP handled 4GB so if we're doing "top of the line" seems like you'd want to go with four.

My old i3-530 duo core with 4GB RAM and my 9800 GTX+ handled Skyrim just fine at greater resolution than you get out of a PS3. Looked a lot better than the PS3 version as well (my son has it). I'd be willing to bet a top of the line 2006 system could have handled it. But what a PS3 could handle at the ed of its life cycle isn't too telling since the games were being designed for antiquated systems. If games were being designed around i5 or i7's, the PS3 life cycle would have ended years earlier.



If the gaming industry kept up with PCs we might end up having to buy $3k+ computers every couple years. :P
#135 May 23 2013 at 4:45 PM Rating: Good
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Well, XP handled 4GB worth of memory, including the video card. In 2006, 512MB was the standard stick size, and 1GB was starting to become more common. After looking up the mobo in the above listing, it apparently only had 2 RAM slots, which is likely why it only had 2GB of ram, but at $400 for the matched pair, I'm not certain there'd be any real reason to bump up to 4GB even if the mobo could accommodate it.
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#136 May 23 2013 at 4:47 PM Rating: Good
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Also, that PC has like an $800 monitor in there. Not that it makes a huge difference.
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#137 May 23 2013 at 4:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Spoonless wrote:
at $400 for the matched pair, I'm not certain there'd be any real reason to bump up to 4GB even if the mobo could accommodate it.

TOP OF THE LINE! Smiley: mad
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#138 May 23 2013 at 5:06 PM Rating: Good
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I'm really curious how all of this will play out with 4K resolution. Oddly enough, PCs will be able easily make the transition, yet it will be consoles that actually see the benefit.

This is a fairly new product (for normal consumers), so I don't think it will even be concern for another 5 years, but since the PS4 (and not the X1?) will have support for 4K resolutions, I wonder if this make any difference in the long term of these consoles.
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#139 May 23 2013 at 5:15 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Spoonless wrote:
at $400 for the matched pair, I'm not certain there'd be any real reason to bump up to 4GB even if the mobo could accommodate it.

TOP OF THE LINE! Smiley: mad
Smiley: lol
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#140 May 23 2013 at 5:46 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
So, yes, users can install now on the xbox 360. They couldn't at launch, and the fact that not all could still be a real, and significant, influence on product development.


But I don't believe that the reason why installation was not an option at launch was because not all Xbox's had HDDs as you put it.

I'm not a Microsoft official but I'd wager that the reason game installation was not a launch feature was because at the time, installation was not a concept in the console market. And with a DVD drive, it likely barely crossed anyone's mind during development. Like I said before, with the PS3 release, the limitations of Blu-Ray speed made the PS3 installation a must for some games to avoid load times which would have crushed it in reviews. As is, I seem to remember the Blu-Ray speed and being forced to install games as a negative mark against the console for many users at the time of the release.

Also, when the Xbox was first released in 2005, I'm pretty sure HDDs were relatively small and still relatively expensive. Sure, now you can throw a 500GB HDD in your PS3 for pennies, but I remember buying my brand new 200GB HDD when it first came out in 2004 or so and it was $200+ new.

Edit:
Can't the Core/Arcade models still purchase an Xbox HDD and install it on the system to get the HDD capacity?

Edited, May 23rd 2013 7:47pm by TirithRR
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#141 May 23 2013 at 9:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
Smiley: mad

Smiley: facepalm Smiley: blush I apologize, Eske. That's what I get for skimming posts. Now I feel like a Gbaji, shrouded in Varus ,wrapped in an Alma.
#142 May 23 2013 at 10:21 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:

Edit:
Can't the Core/Arcade models still purchase an Xbox HDD and install it on the system to get the HDD capacity?



Yes they can but since its proprietary MS charges WAY to much .


Speaking of HDD Deals Toshiba 2 TB 3.5 inch 7400 rpm for 79.99 (99-20 MIR) Memorial day sale

Edited, May 23rd 2013 11:41pm by BeanX

Edited, May 24th 2013 2:06am by BeanX
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#143 May 24 2013 at 4:17 AM Rating: Good
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BonYogi wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
Smiley: mad

Smiley: facepalm Smiley: blush I apologize, Eske. That's what I get for skimming posts. Now I feel like a Gbaji, shrouded in Varus ,wrapped in an Alma.


He should have uploaded it and posted it like a normal, Kao-fearing, Premium owner.
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#144 May 24 2013 at 5:43 AM Rating: Good
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BeanX the Irrelevant wrote:
TirithRR wrote:

Edit:
Can't the Core/Arcade models still purchase an Xbox HDD and install it on the system to get the HDD capacity?



Yes they can but since its proprietary MS charges WAY to much .


That's beside the point, I never said 360 accessories didn't cost a lot.

Edited, May 24th 2013 7:49am by TirithRR
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#145 May 24 2013 at 6:09 AM Rating: Good
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Being able to purchase one is really neither here nor there, as you really shouldn't assume they will have purchased one. It's just really awful design.
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#146 May 24 2013 at 6:26 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Being able to purchase one is really neither here nor there,


Which is why it wasn't the main point of my entire post, merely a little additional edit at the end, that even the harddrive free versions had the ability to be upgraded. That the lack of a HDD in some models at release would not be a hindrance to the inclusion of the optional ability to install games. And obviously isn't, since that optional ability exists now and HDD-free versions of the 360 exist.

Edited, May 24th 2013 8:32am by TirithRR
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#147 May 24 2013 at 7:10 AM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Being able to purchase one is really neither here nor there,


Which is why it wasn't the main point of my entire post, merely a little additional edit at the end, that even the harddrive free versions had the ability to be upgraded. That the lack of a HDD in some models at release would not be a hindrance to the inclusion of the optional ability to install games. And obviously isn't, since that optional ability exists now and HDD-free versions of the 360 exist.

Edited, May 24th 2013 8:32am by TirithRR


Very fair. I honestly had only seen the comment in the quote - I missed your response entirely. The little green arrow brought me to Bean's post.

As for the concept of installation, I can see your point about not thinking it important (though I do feel like PCs and consoles had drifted sufficiently close at the time that someone should have noted it - the concept of installing DLC and updates to your machine already existed, afterall).

What confuses me is that the PS3 launched, and installation proved a great way to severely cut load times without sacrificing any of the environment, and the 360 proceeds to launch the Xbox Arcade, to replace the core, without a hard drive. I just don't really understand it.

You'd think 1) adding the HDD (and installation ability) and 2) adding native wifi would have been a great way to really pounce on selling features of the PS3. But they didn't even add the installation capability until a year after the Arcade's launch, a full two years after the PS3 launched.

Those delays helped the PS3 catch up, because cross-platform games were becoming, more and more, the bread-and-butter of the generation. The low load times were a major feature in pretty much every gaming article about the games, and with the PS3 holding its own graphically, it was definitely increasingly attractive. This is most notable as the year headstart for the 360 was mattering far less now that a backlog of titles was far less of a selling point.

It just strikes me as a really odd set of business decisions.

But, you know, to be 100% fair Microsoft is a very different company from Sony. Sony has a far larger stake in the hardware market than Microsoft, who only aggressively made that leap more recently. So while I don't doubt the 360 was important to them, it probably wasn't nearly as important as the Xbox One is.

I'd be really interested in seeing their profits for Windows 8, from launch to now, next to their profits on Xbox Live for one year.
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#148 May 24 2013 at 7:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I'd be really interested in seeing their profits for Windows 8, from launch to now, next to their profits on Xbox Live for one year.

Both would likely be dwarfed by their business industry profits: business OS/productivity software, server management and the like.
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#149 May 24 2013 at 7:27 AM Rating: Good
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I know at the time the Arcade launched, it was still more expensive to buy that plus a 20GB HDD than it was to buy the 20GB Xbox bundle, but I think either the Arcade price or the 20GB HDD price had dropped by the time my brother bought his, because he got the Arcade, since he wasn't planning on playing online, and later bought a 20GB HDD and the total amount paid was in line with the 20GB bundle. Maybe he got one or both during a sale.
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#150 May 24 2013 at 8:11 AM Rating: Good
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I think the original Core/Arcade reflect the old console market. Play the game off the disc. Even after the PS3 release, the idea of installing games to your HDD was not a "this is good for everyone" idea, it was a "This is a forced thing because of certain limitations". The current HDD-Free slim model appeals to a different console user. The one that just wants to play their disc game. With 4GB internal flash to take game patches and some DLC. And that's the thing with the 360, because of the DVD drive, installation is not a requirement for disc games. It's been a while since I've installed games to my 360 HDD, but I'm pretty sure it is not an in game menu option like the PS3, it's at the dashboard, entirely optional. And while it's optional for some PS3 games, many of my PS3 games automatically start installation as soon as I load the game for the first time. The load time differences I've noticed between my games I've played on the 360 pre/post install have been relatively minor. The biggest difference is not having the whirr of the DVD drive during playing.

One thing I think I remember reading about the X1 release that I actually liked was how buying the retail disc enables you do download the game. Much like Steam activated disc games. An added benefit of the whole digital distribution and account linked games I'd say.
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#151 May 24 2013 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I'd be really interested in seeing their profits for Windows 8, from launch to now, next to their profits on Xbox Live for one year.

Both would likely be dwarfed by their business industry profits: business OS/productivity software, server management and the like.


I bet. I'm just wondering about the public consumer side of things. I doubt Windows 8 sales have been all that huge. Actually, I doubt their business 8 sales have been awesome, either. I'm sure that'll change in time, but it hasn't been out long enough to be worthwhile for companies to switch.

TirithRR wrote:
I think the original Core/Arcade reflect the old console market. Play the game off the disc. Even after the PS3 release, the idea of installing games to your HDD was not a "this is good for everyone" idea, it was a "This is a forced thing because of certain limitations". The current HDD-Free slim model appeals to a different console user. The one that just wants to play their disc game. With 4GB internal flash to take game patches and some DLC. And that's the thing with the 360, because of the DVD drive, installation is not a requirement for disc games. It's been a while since I've installed games to my 360 HDD, but I'm pretty sure it is not an in game menu option like the PS3, it's at the dashboard, entirely optional. And while it's optional for some PS3 games, many of my PS3 games automatically start installation as soon as I load the game for the first time. The load time differences I've noticed between my games I've played on the 360 pre/post install have been relatively minor. The biggest difference is not having the whirr of the DVD drive during playing.

One thing I think I remember reading about the X1 release that I actually liked was how buying the retail disc enables you do download the game. Much like Steam activated disc games. An added benefit of the whole digital distribution and account linked games I'd say.


I can't agree, because I literally never once saw the installation requirement even mentioned as a con, precisely because it always meant faster load times.

I'd bet a **** of a lot of cash that the VAST majority of people don't even know about any technical differences between formats, gamers included. As in, nearly no one. Most gamers now probably just think of Blu Ray is a better HD DVD format, and would have no clue of anything else.

As for the disc -> download feature, that's just something that I would consider absolutely central to this generation. If they PS4 doesn't offer that as well, it would be ridiculous. In that same vein, the ability to install the full game from the disc should also be a possibility, so you don't need to always run from it.
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