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Diablo 3 Beta "Soon"Follow

#27 Jul 27 2011 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Turin wrote:
Can we please stop acting like Diablo is the greatest game to ever grace a PC yet? It had it's moments, but games have moved on quite a bit in the last fifteen years. At this point I wouldn't even put it in the top ten.


Everyone is completely shocked that you don't like anything, I'm sure. Smiley: nod
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#28 Jul 27 2011 at 4:08 PM Rating: Decent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I never really understood why it was so popular. Or, rather, I'd agree that it deserved that popularity if it wasn't for the horrible leveling system, combined with the horrible mob leveling system, combined with the fact that you'd need to be lvl 25+ before you could start doing quests, because that's the point when leveled quest rewards would be their best. And simple quests could give quality items.


Sure, it had its flaws. But it had some good things, too. Like shiny graphics. And... um. The voiceacting? Ohgodwait that was actually terrible. And the quests were pretty epic when they wanted to be. Combat was... well, decent at times, but I think that it boiled down to that you can play it how you wanted to play it.

If you wanted to be a mage, you could. If oyu wanted to sneak past enemies and never really kill anything, you could most of the time. And if you wanted to stalk someone throughout their entire day by following them around and watching them awkwardly only to be disappointed when it turns out that they really aren't that interesting, well, you could do that.

I think the freedom was the big appeal. There hadn't been many open sandbox games that I can think of before Oblivion, aside from other Elder Scrolls games, but there were certainly more after.

I mean, it had flaws. Sure. But it had its high points, too.
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#29 Jul 27 2011 at 4:57 PM Rating: Default
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I just couldn't imagine anyone being retarded enough to criticize a PC game for not being designed to use a console controller.


I can't imagine anyone so stupid and insensitive that they still think it's acceptable to use the term "retarded" in a derogatory fashion. If you're going to insist on disagreeing with my preferences as if they had any effect on you at all, try not to do it in such a childish fashion.

A mouse and keyboard are not tools designed for gaming. Game companies adapted to them because all computers use them, not because they are ideal tools for gaming. In some games they work well, FPS for example, but for most genres a well designed control pad works far better. That aside, point and click game play lacks immersion. When I'm playing a game I want as little on the screen as possible, having a big shiny arrow in the middle of the screen that I move around and use to point at things just brings me right out of the game.

Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Turin wrote:
Can we please stop acting like Diablo is the greatest game to ever grace a PC yet? It had it's moments, but games have moved on quite a bit in the last fifteen years. At this point I wouldn't even put it in the top ten.


Everyone is completely shocked that you don't like Diablo, I'm sure. Smiley: nod


I didn't say I didn't like it, I said it was overrated.

Edited, Jul 27th 2011 7:00pm by Turin
#30 Jul 27 2011 at 6:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Turin wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I just couldn't imagine anyone being retarded enough to criticize a PC game for not being designed to use a console controller.


I can't imagine anyone so stupid and insensitive that they still think it's acceptable to use the term "retarded" in a derogatory fashion. If you're going to insist on disagreeing with my preferences as if they had any effect on you at all, try not to do it in such a childish fashion.


Fair. I should have asserted that you had the mental capacity and personality of a shrew instead. I apologize to the mentally disabled peoples of the world.

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A mouse and keyboard are not tools designed for gaming. Game companies adapted to them because all computers use them, not because they are ideal tools for gaming. In some games they work well, FPS for example, but for most genres a well designed control pad works far better. That aside, point and click game play lacks immersion. When I'm playing a game I want as little on the screen as possible, having a big shiny arrow in the middle of the screen that I move around and use to point at things just brings me right out of the game.


You must HATE Wii games then. I assume you are going to assert that the WiiMote wasn't designed for gaming, since it uses a cursor on the screen that breaks immersion? What a about a game like Oblivion, a first person RPG, that still uses cross-hairs, even when you use a controller? How about when you play a turn based RPG and need to navigate through menus? CLEARLY those are awful gaming mechanisms. Do you like Minimaps? Or any other markers that show information/objectives? How about health bars? Naturally, the game character doesn't need a visual readout of how wounded they are--they can feel it.

Your argument is ridiculous. Are there pros to using controllers? Yes. Are there pros to using a mouse/keyboard? Yes. Is it realistic to expect a company designing a game for the PC to design it for the keyboard/mouse? Of course--every gamer has those. Is it realistic to expect a company designing a game for the PC to design it to use a controller? Of course not, the population of gamers that would use the controller is miniscule and almost every one of them would still play the game if it required a mouse/keyboard. To incorporate controller support they would need to put someone on that task, which means paying out a lot of money in man-hours that could have been used in making the game as a whole better instead.

Newsflash. If you don't like playing games using a keyboard/mouse, then PC gaming CLEARLY isn't for you. Criticizing a game for making use of a mouse/keyboard, when designed FOR THE PC (and ONLY released on it), is absurd.
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#31 Jul 27 2011 at 11:08 PM Rating: Excellent
Turin has some valid points. The world needs critics and opposing view points as well. Lighten up people, not everyone agree's on the sacred cows of video game nostalgia.
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#32 Jul 27 2011 at 11:50 PM Rating: Decent
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I fail to see how "clicking is archaic" is a valid point.
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#33 Jul 28 2011 at 12:43 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
the horrible mob leveling system
Not once, but twice I spent an hour under a bridge jumping like an idiot just to level properly. After the second time, I stopped playing that game.
#34 Jul 28 2011 at 12:55 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
the horrible mob leveling system
Not once, but twice I spent an hour under a bridge jumping like an idiot just to level properly. After the second time, I stopped playing that game.


So... you might say...

It trolled you.


YEAAAAAAAAAHHHHH


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#35 Jul 28 2011 at 1:29 AM Rating: Good
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IDrownFish wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
the horrible mob leveling system
Not once, but twice I spent an hour under a bridge jumping like an idiot just to level properly. After the second time, I stopped playing that game.


So... you might say...

It trolled you.


YEAAAAAAAAAHHHHH
According to the scouter, if that pun had been approximately 10% worse, you would have instantly turned into Kao.
#36 Jul 28 2011 at 3:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Oh what would Kao be without puns?

Just another wombat-loving arachnophobic technophile, I guess.

And I'm actually playing Oblivion right now. It's perfect because I'm also reading two books, playing EVE, and playing SW:KotOR. Very easy to level while doing any one (or two) of those other things. If those aren't enough to entertain me, there's Zam or my DS close at hand. :P

I figure I can actually start enjoying the game once I hit level 25, which will mean I won't need to look up rewards for every quest to see if I should wait and won't need to worry about using major skills (since I've capped any of the ones I'd possibly want to use, meaning Alchemy and Alteration).

But had I not had other things I wanted to do that would allow me to level at the same time, the system would have been a deal breaker for me.
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#37 Jul 28 2011 at 5:56 AM Rating: Good
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1. If you're old and decrepit like myself, mouse/keyboard > controler. After a few minutes on a controler, my hands collapse like a beer can in the Marianas Trench. When I discovered I could play Halo on the PC, I was pretty stoked.

2. I have always been a fan of the Elder Scrolls series; even Arena which now looks so lame.

3. Diabl-wha?
Ok, I have heard of it but somehow managed to never play it (or see it played, for that matter). I've heard good things about DII, though.Smiley: nod
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#39 Jul 28 2011 at 2:31 PM Rating: Good
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DigitalSingularity wrote:
Get torchlight if Diablo is your thing otherwise wait for SWTOR like the rest of us and forget about GOW2 looks well boring.

Going to GoW2 website after spending time at SWTOR and watching a video on Engineers I would think I was playing Joust and looking forward to a Friday night sleepover of V and V.

Villians vs Vigilantes

Believe me folks GOW is done and so will the Hobbit G A M E O V E R

Edited, Jul 28th 2011 4:14pm by DigitalSingularity


Wha...?

I didn't like Torchlight, and I don't know what GoW is, unless it's God of War, in which case the second one has been out for quite a while...
#40 Jul 28 2011 at 11:07 PM Rating: Good
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I think he means Guild Wars, and just isn't very good at typing.

idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
I figure I can actually start enjoying the game once I hit level 25, which will mean I won't need to look up rewards for every quest to see if I should wait and won't need to worry about using major skills (since I've capped any of the ones I'd possibly want to use, meaning Alchemy and Alteration).

But had I not had other things I wanted to do that would allow me to level at the same time, the system would have been a deal breaker for me.

I don't see how this is a valid criticism, really. It's not like Oblivion is such a crushingly hard game that if you don't min-max to the absolute, you stand no chance. I paid absolutely no attention to the leveled rewards and made it through the game just fine. If you intend to munchkin it in that way, that's your own fault and you're the one who removed all of the potential fun from it.
#41 Jul 29 2011 at 12:04 AM Rating: Default
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Everything I saw online suggested that the game eventually became unplayable if you chose a starter class. D: D: D:
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#42 Jul 29 2011 at 8:34 AM Rating: Decent
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The game was, and still is, awesome. But you simply hate the mouse too much to enjoy it. Just because you hate the UI doesn't mean that the game is bad. Especially when everybody else doesn't have a problem with it.

I prefer keyboard only if possible though.
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#44 Jul 29 2011 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
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DigitalSingularity wrote:
Diablo is going to be brought to us by the same people that wait oh never mind that was Blizzard North and well unless you like Torchlight chances are you are not going to care for Diablo. I thought the rdps class looked very sad start at point A and be driven back to point Z. Can you really see yourself spending hours upon hours of game time with such a class? The arena gameplay well looked unbalanced and required little skill in regards to mobility.

Now remember if you state an opinion in a forum it is considered complaining and well that will bring out the trolls. Definition of a troll see comment thread #39 and 40...

Edited, Jul 29th 2011 12:03pm by DigitalSingularity


I don't mind anyone stating an opinion, but that makes little sense...

Also, I didn't care much for Torchlight, but I love the Diablo games.

ETA: And how is asking for clarification "trolling...?" Smiley: facepalm

Edited, Jul 29th 2011 1:17pm by Belkira
#46 Jul 29 2011 at 2:14 PM Rating: Decent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Everything I saw online suggested that the game eventually became unplayable if you chose a starter class. D: D: D:

Are you talking about Oblivion here? If so, well, first of all, why would you even read about things like that ahead of time? Do you have no intention of actually enjoying the game and just want to ruin it for yourself before you start? Second, that's not true either. I'm sure some of the classes were weaker than others, but I doubt any of them were so weak as to be unplayable. Last of all, why would you even pick a starter class? Oblivion is great fun because of all the choices it gives you, and creating your own custom class is one of the best choices in the game.

None of which, of course, explains why someone would choose to level up to 25 by rote and then start playing the game.
#47 Jul 29 2011 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
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DigitalSingularity wrote:
Diablo is going to be brought to us by the same people that wait oh never mind that was Blizzard North and well unless you like Torchlight chances are you are not going to care for Diablo. I thought the rdps class looked very sad start at point A and be driven back to point Z. Can you really see yourself spending hours upon hours of game time with such a class? The arena gameplay well looked unbalanced and required little skill in regards to mobility.

Now remember if you state an opinion in a forum it is considered complaining and well that will bring out the trolls. Definition of a troll see comment thread #39 and 40...

Edited, Jul 29th 2011 12:03pm by DigitalSingularity
You still didn't clarify what game you meant by GoW 2.
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#48 Jul 29 2011 at 2:22 PM Rating: Good
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Majivo wrote:
I'm sure some of the classes were weaker than others, but I doubt any of them were so weak as to be unplayable.
Not to mention that you can just tuned the difficulty to fit your play ability. If you are playing a weak class, you turn the difficulty down to produce an appropriately challenging experience. I'm pretty sure that on the easiest difficulty, any possible class build is certainly playable. Since it's not like you're playing PvP or anything, it should be sufficiently easy to tune the game to fit.
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#49 Jul 29 2011 at 3:58 PM Rating: Default
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Majivo wrote:
idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
Everything I saw online suggested that the game eventually became unplayable if you chose a starter class. D: D: D:

Are you talking about Oblivion here? If so, well, first of all, why would you even read about things like that ahead of time? Do you have no intention of actually enjoying the game and just want to ruin it for yourself before you start? Second, that's not true either. I'm sure some of the classes were weaker than others, but I doubt any of them were so weak as to be unplayable. Last of all, why would you even pick a starter class? Oblivion is great fun because of all the choices it gives you, and creating your own custom class is one of the best choices in the game.

None of which, of course, explains why someone would choose to level up to 25 by rote and then start playing the game.


That's doubtful, if you wanted to be a caster. All of your major skills were the spells you used nonstop, which would mean you level quickly. Mobs level with you. But you'd only be getting a few points in Int/Will a level this way (best case scenario is 5, but that's unlikely--probably more Will than Int). You'd only get 1 point in Endurance. After a few levels, your health pool will still be pitifully small, but the health of your enemies will have increased much faster. (Your health increases each level relative to your endurance--if you don't increase it early on, you'll be a glass cannon. And that's not fun, which I quickly discovered after facing human enemies in close quarters. Your spells don't do enough damage to take them down in just a few casts, but you have no health to outlast them.

If I was going pure melee, it wouldn't have been as much of a problem. I would have gotten some Endurance every level from my Armorer skill (and possibly Heavy Armor). Pure Mages don't wear armor, because it lowers their spell effectiveness, so I wouldn't have been gaining much endurance at all.

Originally, I had just intended to get my Endurance to 100 and then start playing. But then I found out that certain quest rewards (the best ones in the game, generally) leveled with you, and that you couldn't get the best version until 25+. So I decided that I didn't want to get crap rewards if it just meant waiting a few levels, but also that I didn't want to look up the rewards for every quest. Hence the level goal of 25.

As for finding this stuff out, I knew about Oblivion's leveling quirks before even buying the game (because of this forum). So I was reading a thread about tips for beginners which happened to mention the problems with mage classes in particular.

Oblivion would have been a lot more fun if you didn't get punished by the game mechanics for doing what you wanted to do. Which is exactly why they've already made it clear that Skyrim will not be using this kind of system. The other issue is that it's absurd to expect someone to know what they want to do before they even get to really play. I did create my own custom class, but I had to start over after I realized my only options were (realistically) to mass level my magic up to the point where I could spend the whole game invisible, or to start over and actually get myself some health.
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#50 Jul 29 2011 at 11:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Puns make you grow taller. True story. Also, worst pun ever:
What do you call a sad puppy that eats cantaloupe?

Smiley: dnp
No really, its that bad.
A melon collie!
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#51 Jul 29 2011 at 11:52 PM Rating: Decent
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I know you warned me, but...

Smiley: banghead
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