Dragon Age IIFollow

If you look back at your post, you'll find that it largely seemed to be a collection of points (many of which I didn't agree with from a logical perspective, not even a subjective one), not an argument for why they should have added middle of the road characters. You mentioned that idea once and then never even alluded to it again.

I didn't skim your post, but it read way more like a collection of separate points than a single argument. If you meant it in the latter, then my response was largely unnecessary (though I still disagree with your argument, but agree with the conclusion). But it didn't read that way at all.

[EDIT]


Umm, look again. The difference is huge. And this is only the case for tanks, you are absolutely forced to use Anders if you want a healer (and you do, because chugging potions just isn’t enough on many normal encounters, let alone higher difficulties).

Sword and Shield talents (that matter):
Shield Defense (sustainable) is -25% damage from the front—VERY useful on hard-hitting bosses, and only costs 15% stam.
Safeguard (passive)—the warrior is IMMUNE to crits. Again, super nice overall.
Perception (passive)—the warrior is immune to flanking. Super nice for AoE tanking. In DA:O, flanking increased your attack value and chance to crit—I’m not sure what it does in DA2.

Aveline’s personal tree (again, that matter):
+5-10% damage reduction (5% includes 10% transfer from Hawke to her).
Bodyguard is 25-50% damage transfer from a party member to her—very useful if Anders draws hate.
Immovable (aka, omfg amazing skill)--+2% damage resistance per hit received (lasts 5 seconds). Absolutely amazing in AoE—have her put a little threat on everything, then activate bravery/ the other option (transfers 50% threat to her from everyone else). She will have their hate for the rest of the fight, so her slow movement/attack speed doesn’t matter. So she ends up with this huge stack of damage mitigation. :D
Indomitable gives her complete resistance to stun and knockback, which means you can invest more in other stats without worrying as much about her fortitude.
Thick Skin is a passive 15% damage resistance.

Yeah, that’s amazing.

Now let’s see how Fenris makes up the difference.
Magic Resistance +10%
Defense +20%, damage resistance +10%, magic resistance +10% for 25% stamina.
Magic Resistance +25%.

And that’s it. Are you really standing by the argument that the difference isn’t that huge? Oh, and remember that Aveline gets a shield to use, which has additional armor and stats (and runes).

Any accessories he can use, she can too. And, even if she went naked, it wouldn't even begin to make up the gap.

If he just had access to the weapon and shield talents, it would still be a large difference between them, but it would be sufficient to at least make him viable if you really wanted to use him. It's a pretty heavy sacrifice right now.

Edited, Mar 26th 2011 9:57pm by idiggory

Again, just because you don't give a crap about strategy or character builds, etc, doesn't mean other people don't enjoy it. If all you are going to do is mock others for enjoying a part of the game, then why even visit the thread? It's been pretty clear that that's what most of the thread had been/is. And it's probably going to continue to be a big part of it.

And have you SERIOUSLY never complained about what you deem to be a poor design choice before? I cannot possibly believe that. We aren't griping--I'm loving the game. Doesn't mean I can't discuss the problems with it. I'm not a moron who expects a game to be perfect in order to enjoy it. DA2 has it's share of problems. I recognize them. I'm loving the game anyway. If I could be playing it right now, I would be.

Without reading through the last few mountainous walls of text, I can say only this after my second playthrough:

Mage > Rogue. Like, so hard it's not even funny.

I'm looking forward to playing a warrior and not having to drag Fenris' emo **** around for the whole game. CRAWWWWLLLING IIIINNN MY SKIIIIINNN!!!

Edited, Mar 26th 2011 9:31pm by Demea

In terms of fun or in usefulness? Because my Rogue just rips things to shreds. Assassinate is very fun.



No it isn't, and you complained earlier in the thread when we were weighing the pros and cons of builds with the claim that we spend too much time doing it. Furthermore, your point is beyond stupid.

If the devs wanted to make sure we used certain characters then they wouldn't bother making the rest permanent companions. Do Aveline and Anders have a more central role to the main game's quest line? Yes. But there's no reason you should have to use them. You aren't even required to do the personal quests of theirs that are linked to the story.

Want an even better reason your argument is ridiculous? Varric. He's NARRATING the story, which means he knows everything that happened (or is making it up). There's way more incentive for the devs to want you to use him, than for them to want you to use Aveline/Anders but he's well balanced with Sebastian. He's easily the most memorable character, central to the story line (of both the tale and the overall game), and since he's telling his own tale, there would be ample reason for him to paint himself as massively OP (Spoilerlike he does at the start of his personal quest in Act II).

I'd say his argument was stronger if you weren't forced to bring Aveline/Anders along whenever it mattered that you did so. And that's because they were their personal quests.

Varric and Isabela are both important to the overall story, and they aren't shoved into your party against your wishes (actually, the opposite is true--you generally have to choose between them). Merril and Fenris may not be tied into the actual events, but they represent two ends of the spectrum regarding the game's central theme--Fenris is the representative of the faction that fears Mages and, thus, is desperate to suppress them (Aka, Meredith and the Templars). Merrill is a well-meaning Mage who is not at all evil by nature, really, but who uses blood magic because she feels it is important to do so (not because she wants to dominate)--she signifies the common perrill of mages, as well as the potential danger of freedom.

Neither is right or wrong--both have legitimate concerns and make mistakes--and having either (or better both) in your party leads to you caring more about the central theme of th game.

But, despite the amount of work that went into them, Bioware is supposedly only wanting us to use them for their personal quests and no more? Yeah, I don't believe that at all.

Every character has a place in this game, and each one represents a common line of thought in Kirkwall.

Varric- Represents the wealthy merchants of the city, who are most concerned with protecting/making their riches.
Isabela- Represents the poor merchants and laborers of the city, who can't be bothered with anything but survival.
Fenris- Represents those militant towards Magi.
Carver- Represents those that are pro-Templars, but don't wish to enslave magi (more controlling blood magic)
Merrill- Represents the well-meaning Mages who are dangerous in their ignorance.
Bethany- Represents the well-meaning, intelligent (in a street-smart way) apostates--the ones who are safe even outisde the circle.
Anders- Represents those militant towards the Templars.
Aveline- Represents those who wish for order above all, even if it means compromise.
Sebastian- Represents those who support the Templars, but out of faith. They don't hate mages, nor particularly fear them, but they hold that the circle is necessary simply because the chantry says so.

All the characters are important. Just because Anders and Aveline are slightly more central to the story doesn't warrant a reason we shouldn't use the rest.

I still haven't "found" Isabella. Which tavern are you supposed to go to?

I can't believe I didn't catch this reference. In SpoilerAnders' act III quest, you help him collect some ingredients for Spoilera "potion to help separate him and Justice". The ingredients?

Awesome. Great find. I was hoping someone would make this.

Er...what's the confusion? At large distances from the character, at the furthest edges of the ground plane, the game has trouble recognizing "move here" right-click commands.

With the old isometric/free camera, you could pan over to distant areas, which the game recognized much better. You could tell characters to move to areas behind walls, or to higher elevations, too. I find that stuff far more difficult with the new camera, so I have to move all my characters directly.

Yeah, I think I misunderstood the post I quoted. Rereading it a couple of times made me realize you were referring to paused combat in Dragon Age when you said that "With an over-the-shoulder camera, it can get very, very hard to have a character move to a distant area that way." I originally thought you meant all games with a third-person camera angle. Was going to point to the WASD keys.

But yeah, movement during paused combat in DA2 is a pain, which is why I don't use it. I play DA2 like I played the Mass Effect games, Assassin's Creed games and every other third-person shooter (MMO's incl): run in, guns blazing, and hope your team mates run for cover.

If at first you don't succeed...

Why do people play shooters on consoles? At least tell me you're using a mouse and keyboard...

You can on PS3 also although it might be more limited than on the PC version but i wouldn't know since I'm on PS3 also. On the radial menu you have a "move to position" command that let's you set a point for your character to move to.