Bard buildFollow

1. He says they are Wanna-Be Enchanters and if we want to give out great mana to be an enchanter
2. He says they do horrible damage.
3. He says the Cha is a waste
4. He says there other MC:a the attack is too weak.

There are more but those are the main ones. He loves to call them Gimpstrels




Edited, Tue Oct 26 22:38:52 2004 by Sinenian

Yeah well, I aint lookin for rate-ups.... I posted the first "Were-hunter" quests on the forums....Then I got shiped out and kinda lost touch for about 3 months.... anyways, thats beside-the-point.....looks like we got a troll on the boards tonight...

Good good.
What all scholars/sages/gurus are on to suspect?

The only thing is
1. He also likes bards because they give out power
2. The loss of 2-3 OF mods is minor when you can aid the group more.
3. I agree for how much cha minstrals are required to have they should have higher mods, but the cha with the cm anthums is nice. I do 90 to str/dex with my 50 anthum cm which out does everything but avatar, and is little loss since the cha only costed me a bit of my sta tp's.
4. I know 1500 aoe damage is pathetic./sarcasm

Yapp!
It has a huge Cha mod too.
Like 125% Or something.

2,400? Haha, no..

Anyways, I am working on a rather long post in another window, could one of you tell me how to make an "equal to or greater than"
symbol?

Trying to be as "unbiased" as possible..

Edited, Tue Oct 26 23:07:15 2004 by BonScottDH

Sin, can you get the attack from Hodstock by any chance. And link it to me =) lol im too lazy to. And I remember reading it differently on Hodstock, which I trust more.

Though, I may be wrong about the %mod on it. Its still alot.
If Im wrong then its not 2400 dmg Im sure, but I can check it out with the correct mod.

Hodstock Version

Misntrel:
http://hodstock.com/modules.php?name=Class_Mastery&op=view&id=86

Gypsy:
http://hodstock.com/modules.php?name=Class_Mastery&op=view&id=89

Bravo:
http://hodstock.com/modules.php?name=Class_Mastery&op=view&id=40

Sorry argh, but with 600 cha anthum of conquest cm would be about 135. Anthums naturally have a mod of 5%, the cm version gives you another 5% making the mod 10%. So with 600 cha you get 60 extra points. 60+75=135

Warning: Pretty long post.. Basically just states how I feel about each Mc and Mca, aswell as how I think minstrel could be a bit better..


I feel all ganged up on and such..

Argh has me down pretty well..



I might just add it into my signature..


Anyways, on to the question.


Here is how I view it.

Bards, in my personal opinion, they are like a mix, an all-around character, able to do so many different things and take on many different roles.

When I look at the master-classes I see this.

__________________


Immortal - int. and wis. max wasted. 20 PoT for 200 CMs? Ouch.

MCA 1: 500 HP / power for 10 minutes, that does NOT seem worth it in my opinion, yes, 500 HP / Power to EVERYONE around you is nice.

But, lets face it, 500 HP / power is NOT going to make that much of a difference.

MCA 2: 500 power, 20 more PoT..

Lets look at this all together now..

For yourself : +1k HP, 40 PoT, (Damn I suck at math, give me a minute..) Uh..350 CMs.. Not worth it..

For other : 500 HP / Power.. Eh.. DECENT I mean.. For 75 CMs? Clearly people who take this route want to help in raids a lot, I think they should have either gone minstrel, 1k power per minute.. that's 10k power in the time that this Immortal gave 500 HP / Power.. Or they should have made an enchanter.

__________________


Mercenary : HP 200, 25 to every max.. (Kinda reminds me of God born)

MCA 1: Expose.. I'll be honest, I am really unable to judge this too much because I do not know a whole lot about it.. A debuff, 700+ power.. 5 minute recast.. I do not know how useful the debuff is, so uh.. I just know it is not the most useful in regular grinds.

MCA 2: 25 str, 25 dex, 250 AC, 250 HP.. 75 CMs? Eh, I could find better places to spend them.

To yourself: +100 to your main maxes overall. +450 HP, some AC.. And some str/dex.. A debuff that I am betting is fairly useful on raids?

to other: Just a debuff, again, if you are looking for a MC to help others, go minstrel..


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Minstrel: 500 power, 50 charisma, 50 charisma max. (Never realized it gave so little.)

MCA 1: Destructive Dirge. What can I say? 550-600 power,(thought it was 700) Uh.. 1 minute recast.. I have been told 1,300 or so with 400 charisma. Now the way I look at it, this is a waste because on Bravo, you get an attack with even more damage and half the recast..

(As for most of the minstrels I ahve talked to, many say they either don't plan to buy this, or had it and deleted.)

MCA 2: Power Ballad. Gives a single tick of 1k once every minute.. This is costing the bard 1k every minute.

Now see, this is actually pretty nice I guess.. But I just don't like it, I am losing 1k power.. I lost my train of thought..

I don't know, I do believe it is indeed a good ability.

However, looking at minstrel OVERALL, I think that Bravo is more well-rounded. I look at the things I am giving up when I look at minstrel.. I see myself losing 2 off. mods, +50 to my top four stats which STACKS.. I am also losing 50 dex max and a nice AoE damage attack..

Of all honesty, I believe minstrel is a decent Master Class, but when I compare it to Bravo, it just doesn't fit the way I prefer to play my character..

The charisma seems wasted to me.. Were th charisma modifier on the anthems bigger, my opinion may change.. But until then, no..

The Harmonic Perfect CMs look wasted to me also, a small charisma boost, now, if they are combat, I guess some see this as a good CM to buy so that they can TRY and make up for the lack of power they are giving out.

However, I am assuming the bard is power, and to me, that makes these useless..

The charisma +10 and PoT +5 just looks like it is there to help you not waste so many TPs into charisma..

To yourself: 500 power.. A decent damage attack. 50 charisma, 50 charisma max, wasted if you are looking out for "Number one" (that's you)

To others: 1k power every minute, nice, but as said before, when I look at what I could have gotten, my opinion changes..

__________________

I am not even putting movement rate in there since we have Acceleradno / Selo's Accel / Selo's Song.

Gypsy: 1 off. mod, 1 def. mod, 10 agi - 50 max, 50 dex.


MCA 1: 2 off / def. mods. That's all this is.. Are you kidding me? Yes, good for the cost actually, I supposed.. SORT OF..

MCA 2: Are you kidding me? A pickpocket? And from what I have been told a pickpocket equal to that of a 55 Rogue's pickpocket?

Why does a bard have to pay 75 CMs for a pickpocket that a rogue gets for free? Infact, a rogue burglar pays the same amount for a BETTER pickpocket..

To yourself: Off / def mods, some extra cash..

To others: Nothing

Looking back at it, I don't even know why I considered gypsy, all it is is mods. I'd rather be a minstrel.

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Bravo (Oh yeah): 2 off. mods, 50 dex max, 50 agi max.

MCA 1:(7 more CMs for it and I do not have acces to my PS2 until friday, going to kill myself!) Poise.. Yes, indead a great buff.. +50 to the top four stats.. And it stacks (Except with avatar) but that doesn't matter.. Because you see, with that.. If I have shaman buffs, I don't even NEED avatar (sure I don't get those 1,500 HPs) But stat-wise.. I might as well be getting that specialized bard 49 buff.. Without a shaman, I will still have my own str / dex buffs which give more than a shaman's anyways..

I mean, that is just one kick *** buff, there is no denying it, Bravo doesn't even need it's second MCA here to out-do Gypsy.. Gypsy gets 1 more off. mod than bravo.. Bravo gets the +50 dex with the buff, gets 40 more dex, and 50 str / sta that gypsy doesn't..

All gypsy has on bravo are those three def mods.. I do not value those that much, infact, I don't know when I am going to buy them back..

MCA 2: Blade Dance (Perfect name for a bard attack) 1,400+ dex modified, AoE.. Half the recast of the minstrel attack, more damage.. Gypsy doesn't even get any sort of attack.. Enough said..

To yourself : 2 off. mods, 50 dex/agi max, +50 to top four bases, or might as well. A nice AoE damage attack.. Very nice.. Also you get 1 def. mod from the bravo sta. boosters.

To others: Who cares about people when you got that bad *** buff? Haha.. No, seriously, this, like gypsy, offers nothing for others.. But is simply great..

Bravo - Overall, a very well-rounded MC, reminds me of Savage because it is not so much about the MC, but the MCAs that make it great..

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This is how I view each MC and it's MCAs.. I tried not to be biased, because in all honesty, I think Minstrel is a DECENT MC, simply because of the 1k tick of power..

However, as said before.. I just do not feel that it is worth what I am losing.. what I COULD have gotten..

The charisma.. Again, I said it before, if they want minstrel to serve more of a purpose besides that 1k tic, then they should increse the anthem % increase..

It is simply how I prefer to play my character, I don't like anything minstrel has going for it except that 1k power buff, but when I am forced to choose between that and Bravo, I choose bravo..


Now, the reason I always joke around saying minstrels should of just made enchanters is because.. People should know.. If you want massive mana.. Enchanters.. They can give out so much, so quick.. Bard power buffs suck compared to theirs..

Oh, one bad thing about Bravo.. If you put in your LFG thing and don't mention you are a bard.. Well, people are gonna assume you're a ranger (On DH anyways)

Thank you for your time?

Edit: Just added some stuff..

Edited, Tue Oct 26 23:36:29 2004 by BonScottDH

you're doing it wrong argh..



200 charism (what a minstrel will have atleast) X 1.25
= 250

Take the base damage that the attack does, I was told 1,200 by sources other than Hodstock, as in, fellow players..

1,200+250 = 1,450..

That is how it is calculated..

This is assuming the "Base damage" is 1,200..

No, nevermind, it looks right..

Edited, Tue Oct 26 23:27:02 2004 by BonScottDH

Actually I was doing it wrong but not because of what you said.

I said the base dmg is 1200, but no the base dmg is 800 using Alla. And I was saying with 600 charisma. Assuming someone ever had that much.

I would say a minstrel should have around 400 at 60. And maxed Str/Dex, with quite a bit of Sta/Agi. But anyways, I was assuming with 600 charisma.

I fixed my math though, edited my post, look at it again, now its correct.