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A huge problemFollow

#1 Jan 25 2004 at 9:04 AM Rating: Good
We had a problem with some accounts they were banned by SoE, and its known for a fact by all of us in the PA, that this was wrong. So We are trying to help our two friends, by going to the offical SWG forums. Alazar, our PAs leader, left this message on the offical forums, only to have to ridiculed and then locked. Then after posting in the "right section" of the offical forums it was completely DELETED. A second thread was made about it, in the "right section" and it was deleted as well...

the first message that was left on the boards was this:

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Greetings, fellow Star Wars Galaxies Players;

I have come to the forums today to discuss a very important issue. I do not usually choose to use the Official Forums for the sake of gaining publicity, but in this circumstance I am afraid it is now the last avenue left to pursue to gain an audience with the powers that be at Sony Online Entertainment.

I am Alazar Thakir, Leader of The Guardians. We are a fairly large player organization residing on the Starsider server. We are a well-respected PA, and even our enemies know us to hold ourselves to high standards. What does this mean? It doesn’t make me anyone special, nor does it entitle me to any special benefits. I am a leader. As a leader, it is my duty to represent my members and to see that their needs are met. Which is the very reason I stand before you today.

I do not come here for the sake of gaining personal attention or to cause disruption to the community. My purpose here is to make the community aware of a glaring issue with the recent account bans that have taken place in regards to the Duping Issue that was discovered. I do not wish to cause unnecessary panic or political slant against the Development team in regards to this issue, but I do believe there have been some serious grievances committed against the player community that need to be directly addressed.
This thread is going to be extremely long due to the information that needs to be presented in order for everyone to make an informed decision. My entire purpose is to raise Community Awareness in regards to this issue, in the hopes that we can all come away from this incident educated, and find some way to implement a CSR system of communication so that this does not happen again.

As most of you are aware, this statement was recently released:
Quote:
Greetings...

Recently we found and corrected a credit dupe. It is our goal to maintain a fun, fair game for everyone. As of this morning, we completed our second round of player banning directly related to this issue. We have another round planned for next week.

Cheating in Star Wars Galaxies is taken very seriously. SOE will continue do everything we can to fix exploits as well as ban people who use them.

Thanks!

Blair
Producer


I understand that it is an epic struggle for the Development Team to keep a hand on things when it comes to cheating. There is nothing more devastating to an in-game economy than a limitless supply of credits that are constantly being pumped into to the server, completely disrupting any form of an business economy that may have developed. As a Financially intelligent person, and one who runs his own business, I can fully understand the ramifications this has on the work that everyone there at SOE is trying to make. I thank you for making the efforts to create a cheater-free environment for the rest of us to enjoy. This is no small task by any means.

The issue for the community arises then, at what cost is this achieved? Many of you may not be aware of a recently publicized case in which someone had several major account issues before, was accused of being a part of the recent ban list. In this case, an account was unjustly banned. This person had to rely upon the assistance of others to bring their case forward and have the issue resolved. For the sake of information consolidation, I will post that quote here:

Quote:
This story is 100% taken from my very good friend and guild member Falcor.

So falcor, i have known him for several months we were in a guild together until that broke up then another one which broke up again so then i made a guild with all the people that were close friends from all the other guilds but thats not important.

Anyways.. Falcor was a master commando.. and a **edit** good one at that burnt my pets so i could master doctor and loved to Flame dot rebels hehe. So one day falcor logs on and he is a master musician.. this came outta no where. freaked out he called a csr and we all know how long it takes CSR's to fix things so about 4 days later a csr tells him umm our bad yeah looks like u got someone elses skills so re install SWG o and btw we are only going to give u master marksman back sorry.

Slap number one to falcor... he picks himselfs up and decides might as well go... smuggler yeah smuggler. So after getting smuggler and finish up the pistol line a few days later he logs on with all of smuggler gone and just has master marksman.

By this time falcor is a lil mad but he just counts his losses and decides to keep on going. He does a holocron which said weaponsmith and dabbles in rifleman for a lil while everything was going good just a few minor bugs with his char. like he had the skill eyeshot for a few days but he wasnt a BH.....

But falcor was happy he had friends we were laughing and playing back to the future trivia in guild chat until about 6 days ago.... i remeber logging on getting an email saying falcor left the guild. im thinking haha just another joke i msg falcor saying ha ha very funny and a second later he was offline. he was offline for 6 days and he just was able to get back on a few hours ago.... what happend? this is what happend....

6 days ago he got a msg from a CSR saying your a credit duper and banned goodbye. at the time falcor was checking a harvester and a lil over 8k cash on him total. Falcor is realllly confused becuase he has never duped credits hell he has never had over 100k. so he gets on that live chat thing and they tell him that he prob wont be able to play on starsider ever again.

Today he got a PM that said there was a mix up you are now able to log on. Well he logged on they took what lil cash he had all his bank items which included a Kyrat pearl that he killed from his commando days. and took him outta my guild. He didnt even get a sorry from the csrs for saying he credit duped when he didnt. after hearing all this my mouth dropped to the ground. why do you still play i ask. he said Becuase of friends of course. i offered him money items anything he wanted and he just said no thanks just a few credits and ill manage im just glad im back.

SO there is the story of Falcor kicked in the balls many times but still manages to just keep playing for the fun of it.


- Sheree


In the previous example, the person had his account banned, and then was later reinstated.

Imagine this scenario :

You get home from work. You’ve had your diner, had a pleasant conversation with your wife, and are sitting down to enjoy some relaxation time online in SWG with your friends. You load up the Station Launcher, and put in your login and password. You are immediately interrupted with an error window stating: “This account has been BANNED. Contact an SOE representative for more information”

The trouble is, once your account is banned, you obviously cannot log into the game to talk to a CSR, and you are unable to access the Official SWG forums here without an active account. A call to the SOE Customer Service line you will find out that you are directed to the website for more information.

If you take the time to contact Live Support CSR’s on the Official site, they come up with yet another dead-end statement, “Sorry, we cannot view the in-game logs and are unable to help you with your problem.” I understand that these CSR’s serve a very useful purpose, but now who can I talk to? The answer is, no one. The only avenue you have is the SWGSupport email experience, and here is what that conversation looks like (Names are removed for privacy reasons):
Quote:
From : SWGSupport <swgsupport@soe.sony.com>
Sent : Monday, January 19, 2004 5:11 PM
To : XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Subject : Re: banned account (KMM7903528I7L0KM)

| | | Inbox


Hello XXXX,

Thank you for contacting Star Wars Galaxies In-Game Support.

We recently uncovered and fixed a much exploited credit duplication method in Star Wars Galaxies. Over the last few months, this bug was used to duplicate trillions of credits which have been flooding and ruining the games internal economy. We have identified everyone that exploited this method of duplicating credits, and have terminated the grossest offenders there were involved. As this number currently is somewhat small, we may determine at a later date that further terminations might be done, and for which we reserve the right to do.

If you are receiving this response, your account was identified as one of these offenders and your account(s) have been terminated. It is against our policies (agreed to every time anyone enters the game) to exploit bugs or other obvious system design flaws, as stated in section 12 of the rules of conduct located at the official Star Wars Galaxies website (listed below).

12. You will not exploit any bug in Star Wars Galaxies, and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug either directly or through public posting, to any other Sony Station member. You will promptly report such bugs via the /bug command in-game or by emailing SWGSupport@soe.sony.com. Exploitable bugs include, but are not limited to bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits in-game.

These accounts, that have been identified and terminated, can not and will not be reactivated.

If you have any further issues please feel free to submit a ticket in game from the Holocron using the Customer Service button or by emailing us at SWGSUPPORT@SOE.SONY.COM

For Technical Support:
Phone support is available MON-FRI 9:00AM-1:30PM PST and 3:30pm-6:00pm PST, at (858)790-STAR.

Live chat is also available MON-FRI 9:00AM-6:00PM PST at http://www.station.sony.com/en/services/help/help.jsp

Regards,

Shannon Sullivan
In-Game CSR
Star Wars Galaxies
http://www.starwarsgalaxies.com


Response:
Quote:
I would like to respectfully request that my case be reviewed.

I know there are exploits, but I do not personally know of any credit exploits, or how to perform them.

If I did perform one, it was accidental, and I did not even notice. Meaning it was such a small amount, I didn't even know I did it, so I wouldn't know if I did it again on accident.

I have been playing SWG since opening day, June 26th, one of the lucky few to be on the first day, and within a month, I was running a successful powerups business. Only once has my credit total gone above 2 million, and I used that money to reinvest back into my business, in the form of resources and harvestors.

I've been working to get credits back into my account after paying for much NPC training, and am only now, after many weeks, about to reach the 1.5 million credit mark again. These are not the method of a credit duper. I've never won any high-credit auctions in the forums, due to lack of credits. I've never bought high-credit (like holocrons before xmas, and death star shards people are selling for 10 mil) items off people, due to lack of credits.

I am active duty military, and play as much as I can. I get home from work, and SWG is the only thing I do. On the weekends, my 2 activites are 1. spend time with the wife, and 2. SWG. I easily spend 3-6 hours a weekday in game, and 7-14 hours on the weekends. I have worked very hard on my character, and I do not cheat. 6 months of my time, and $80+ (2 3-month subscription fees), and all the effort and time I put into my character/account, being taken away from me, because of something I may have down unknowningly, seems unjustly harsh. Not even a warning... How can we be punished for doing something, when we don't know we are doing them, and no one tells you to stop doing something a certain way?

I am just asking for a 'just' review of my account/character, so that you can see that I am no cheater. I play fair, I give to my teammates, and I help newbies learn the game. SWG is about community, and I don't wish to be forced out because of something I did not, or did not knowingly, do.

Respectfully,
XXXXXXXXXX
xxxxxxxxxx - Starsider

2.
Quote:
>From: SWGSupport <swgsupport@soe.sony.com>
>To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: banned account (KMM7903528I7L0KM)
>Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:11:11 -0800 (PST)
>
>Hello xxxxxxxxxxxx,
>
>Thank you for contacting Star Wars Galaxies In-Game Support.
>
>We recently uncovered and fixed a much exploited credit duplication
>method in Star Wars Galaxies. Over the last few months, this bug was
>used to duplicate trillions of credits which have been flooding and
>ruining the games internal economy. We have identified everyone that
>exploited this method of duplicating credits, and have terminated the
>grossest offenders there were involved. As this number currently is
>somewhat small, we may determine at a later date that further
>terminations might be done, and for which we reserve the right to do..>
>12. You will not exploit any bug in Star Wars Galaxies, and you will not
>communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug either directly or
>through public posting, to any other Sony Station member. You will
>promptly report such bugs via the /bug command in-game or by emailing
>SWGSupport@soe.sony.com. Exploitable bugs include, but are not limited
>to bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits in-game..
>
>These accounts, that have been identified and terminated, can not and
>will not be reactivated.
>
>If you have any further issues please feel free to submit a ticket in
>game from the Holocron using the Customer Service button or by emailing
>us at SWGSUPPORT@SOE.SONY.COM
>
>For Technical Support:
>Phone support is available MON-FRI 9:00AM-1:30PM PST and 3:30pm-6:00pm
>PST, at (858)790-STAR.
>
>Live chat is also available MON-FRI 9:00AM-6:00PM PST at
>http://www.station.sony.com/en/services/help/help.jsp
>
>Regards,
>
>Shannon Sullivan
>In-Game CSR
>Star Wars Galaxies
>http://www.starwarsgalaxies.com
>
>If you reply to this email, please be sure to include the original body
>text so the thread of our correspondence is contained in every message.
>Thank you.

.3
Quote:
QUOTE
>From: SWGSupport <swgsupport@soe.sony.com>
>To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: In-game issue for SWG (KMM7910617I7L0KM)
>Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:45:16 -0800 (PST)
>
>Dear player,
>
>We recently uncovered and fixed a much exploited credit duplication
>method in Star Wars Galaxies. Over the last few months, this bug was
>used to duplicate trillions of credits which have been flooding and
>ruining the games internal economy. We have identified everyone that
>exploited this method of duplicating credits, and have terminated the
>grossest offenders there were involved. As this number currently is
>somewhat small, we may determine at a later date that further
>terminations might be done, and for which we reserve the right to do..
>
>If you are receiving this response, your account was identified as one
>of these offenders and your account(s) have been terminated. It is
>against our policies (agreed to every time anyone enters the game) to
>exploit bugs or other obvious system design flaws, as stated in section
>12 of the rules of conduct located at the official Star Wars Galaxies
>website (listed below).
>
>12. You will not exploit any bug in Star Wars Galaxies, and you will not
>communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug either directly or
>through public posting, to any other Sony Station member. You will
>promptly report such bugs via the /bug command in-game or by emailing
>SWGSupport@soe.sony.com. Exploitable bugs include, but are not limited
>to bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits in-game..
>
>These accounts, that have been identified and terminated, can not and
>will not be reactivated.
>
>Thank you,
>
>Sony Online Entertainment Management.

4.
Quote:
>From: SWGSupport <swgsupport@soe.sony.com>
>To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: banned account (KMM7916204I7L0KM)
>Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 11:08:41 -0800 (PST)
>
>Hello xxxxxxxxx,
>
>If you received the response that your account has been banned for
>taking part in the duplicating credit exploitation, your account has
>been permanently terminated.
>
>All of the accounts that were identified by the Development Team, have
>been terminated, and will not be reactivated.
>
>Thank you,
>
>Sony Online Entertainment Management

Player Response
Quote:
I have never taken in part in any credit duplication exploit.
How can I fight this, as I have been wrongly accused?

During the entire correspondence, the tone of the conversation reads as, “You’re a Cheater, we don’t care what you have to say, your account has been permanently terminated.” Just like Falcor’s was permanently terminated? This is a VERY ALARMING form of customer service that is the core of the issue I bring before you today. We’ve already seen at least one example where a person was wrongly identified as a perpetrator. Have you considered the possibility there may be more? I would certainly hope that when these decisions were made, that there was an overly abundant source of information collected directly linking these accounts to the Duping Issue discovered.

If that is indeed the case, then why was Falcor terminated? What variables accidentally flagged his account as one of the accused? Have any of the others been given direct attention to this as well? From all given perspectives, I know that at least one of the 2 members I represent hasn’t ever possessed ANY large sum of money. The man has done so little in-game in the means of acquiring wealth that he even borrowed an original set of chitin armor… with 11% protections to use as his primary protection. Why would someone duping credits need that kind of assistance?

This is a case of Guilty until proven Innocent, a very difficult concept for any American to understand in his home country. I understand this Program and all contained therein is the Intellectual Property of the corresponding parties, but does that mean you will alienate your customer base on a whim whenever it is convenient? I certainly hope that a great deal more discretion is used in this process. A bit more information in regards to the entire scenario would go a long way with the community. I know that the Development Team takes this problem very serious, but I would hope that they give some much needed attention to the process in which these accounts are dealt with. As it stands, there is NO form of direct verbal communication to be used that someone who has been wrongly accused can pursue his/her account to have the problem corrected. At every turn they are treated very poorly as far as a Customer, and told there is nothing that they can do.

The core issue here is that I have now got 2 wrongly accused members that have had their accounts banned, and from all forms of Customer Service so far, they’ve been told the same hardknocks story, “your account has been permanently terminated.” Whatever happened to Blair’s statement of “It is our goal to maintain a fun, fair game for everyone.”? It is not fun when you cannot even make contact with someone who is genuinely concerned about clearing this issue up. No one seems to care. Is that a fair shake to give someone? I think not, and I sincerely hope that is not the goal of SOE’s Customer Service, but so far, we have not had any interactions to indicate otherwise.

These accounts have characters, with assets invested in the player community that are now rotting away. It has been 6 or 7 days I believe now, and unless they were well prepared with building maintenance, their structures will surely decay within the next 24 hours. In the case of Falcor, he was left stripped of the credits he did have, even though he did nothing wrong. Was that, “a fun, fair game for everyone” kind of response to do? I would think that if it was indeed discovered to be a mistake on the Development Team’s part, they could recognize that, and make amends to get him back on his way. When these people that are wrongly accused are discovered, should they not have their accounts restored and their characters compensated back to their original state they were confiscated in? Perhaps this was done with Falcor, and we just never heard about it, a very real possibility. The only way we would know this is if a member of the Development Team takes the time to read through the information I have presented and provides that information to us.

As I stated originally, I am not looking for special treatment, but I do think everyone is entitled to a fair investigation of his or her account, without all of this rigmarole that they have had to so far endure. If someone has been found to truly be guilty of the claims originally made, then by all means I whole-heartedly agree that a non-reversible account ban be in place on those accounts. The damage they have caused is obviously already done. But for those that are found to be innocent on these charges should not have to endure any loss on their character, other than the personal time invested in getting a response and the play time lost during that time.

I implore you to take a deeper look at what is going on here, and I would be more than happy to work with a CSR in any format to resolve these 2 accounts. I would highly suggest that the CSR contact process be investigated in regards to those seeking information into a banned account. The current system is plagued heavily with informational dead ends and Pass-The-Buck avenues.

Thank you very much for having the patience to read through all of the information I have provided, and I hope this helps everyone in gaining a better understanding as to how this entire process works. I can be contacted at Alazar@guardianhq.com for further information in regards to either account in question. They have both asked me to speak here on their behalf, since with their account status neither one is able to do so on their own.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

He got a few stupid responses from "GATers" of the boards, and lame comments from others, and a few supportive comments of people that agree with us, and of people who are in the same situation.

But, in the end, we get slapped with this

Quote:
I'm sorry but I'm going to lock this thread because its not accurate in title or content. This is our game, if people violate our rules they are susceptible to be banned. We do not ban people just on a whim with no proof. After all this is a company that makes money, and if you ban your customer you are not making money, so it is not something that is done lightly. If you have further questions about the policies feel free to contact the support email at SWGSupport@soe.sony.com but our rules regarding cheating and banning are not up for discussion in this forum. Nor will we ever give detailed information about said actions since that is privacy between the customer and us.

Lastly the persons that were banned did get notification as well the email address to reply to with inquires. The only case where this would not have been the case is if the customer put in an invalid email address which is out of our control. If you did something once or twice you would not be banned, people that are banned for exploits did it Repeatedly.

GarVa
SWG Community Relations Representative


which in turn, points us back to the email address, which did nothing in the first place.
#2 Jan 25 2004 at 9:12 AM Rating: Decent
Upon deleting of that above post, after it was reposted in the "right section", it was deleted completely from the Offical SWG boards.

Responses(on our privite guild forum)to that post being delete were not good, they were mixed, anger, people wanting to know why, and of others, saying they are not going to give up.

So, we posted a Second thread on the official SWG Boards:

Quote:
Dear GarVa;


Since you seem to be the one that's doing some type of an attempt to salvage these forums, I'm going to make the subject of my next post as accurate as possible, at least, according to your new standards you've so eloquently outlined in this statement :

I'm sorry but I'm going to lock this thread because its not accurate in title or content. This is our game, if people violate our rules they are susceptible to be banned. We do not ban people just on a whim with no proof. After all this is a company that makes money, and if you ban your customer you are not making money, so it is not something that is done lightly. If you have further questions about the policies feel free to contact the support email at SWGSupport@soe.sony.com but our rules regarding cheating and banning are not up for discussion in this forum. Nor will we ever give detailed information about said actions since that is privacy between the customer and us.

Lastly the persons that were banned did get notification as well the email address to reply to with inquires. The only case where this would not have been the case is if the customer put in an invalid email address which is out of our control. If you did something once or twice you would not be banned, people that are banned for exploits did it Repeatedly.

GarVa
SWG Community Relations Representative

You are correct, this game is SOE's, as I stated in my thread.

If people violate your rules, they should be punished accordingly, you will also find that in my thread.

As for the whim with no proof, that is excellent news indeed. Now perhaps informing the players that are the focus of these direct actions would be a wonderful next step. I was in the process of posting a follow-up to this thread because since it was posted, we are finally getting some useful information to the other account described in this post.

Then we have the wonderful Pass-The-Buck statement :

If you have further questions about the policies feel free to contact the support email at SWGSupport@soe.sony.com

That was one of the problems at the very heart of the issue. There was no "Communication" going on. Just blanket statements that held no information other than the obvious that the player was already aware of. The account was banned, as claimed by the letter, for Duping credits. The player had contacted SWGSupport@soe.sony.com several times, as the letters pasted there are viewable.

No one wanted to discuss the rules that SOE has established regarding cheating and banning. What we wanted to discuss was the very information itself that not even the players knew! As for the privacy of the customer, said customer wasnt getting the information in private either, which is why said customer turned to me. He was hoping to get at least some attention from someone who could do something about communicating that with him. It was the very reason the Account Information was included in the post, so that someone WOULD communicate with him.

Your "Lastly" comment paragraph is also the very reason why this entire discussion was started. He was given an email address, and the people in charge told him nothing. "You're account has been banned for Duping" time and time again, the same cookie-cutter answer with no details or specifics relating to his account. I would have no problem whatsoever referring someone to SWGSupport@soe.sony.com if I knew there was actually some Support behind the SWG.

I'm not asking for the release of privelaged information, nor did I ask for any special favors. It was merely a flag for a heads up to those who were the Support behind SWG, and when doing so, you deleted one of my posts and then closed off another. Nowhere contained inside of my information was there any direct attacks against SOE or its suport staff. There were no flames, no name calling or innappropriate behavior. It was a straight forward Call for Help on the only other public method of communication available to Paying Customers of your Service.

If by asking for Service from the Company that I pay for Service is against the rules of this forum, I would understand your actions. I feel that I have been wrongly recieved yet again, and instead of Communicating further with me, it is much easier, and of course, more efficient to just cut off the conversation and delete my post. For this I was offended and instead of trying to start some odd negative campaign on the WWW, I chose to discuss it on SOE's private forums in the hopes of reaching a resolution on their terms.

If this is not the correct forum to be placing such information on, where would you rather I put it? As stated in my other thread, there is no General Any Topic (SWG) forum that exists here. While your efforts are appreciated to clean up these forums as a useful tool, removing the Useful requests only alienates the Good members of the community even further. I know this is not the goal of the SOE Development Team, so help me to work together with you, so we all can enjoy a brighter tommorrow.

If you're reading this as a hateful, or resentful post, then you are reading it in the wrong light. Text does not convey emphasis, and is often times interpreted as cycnical and condescending. If you feel that way after reading my message, then you have misread it. I am a leader, a business owner, a paying customer of SOE, who wants to get some answers from the company he conducts business with. That is all.


Alazar Thakir


Chancellor of The Guardians


This post was completely deleted from the forums, as to reasons unknown.
#3 Jan 25 2004 at 9:17 AM Rating: Decent
For those curious of what was said on the offical forum in response of the first post, they are listed here:
Quote:
Re: Unjust Banning of SWG Accounts Options

KOTOR_PA
Same thing happened to me, unfortunately.

You can read my story in my signature. It was very disappointing to me, as not only did I lead KOTOR, a PA I have worked on for years now, but I was banned for something that I didn't do.

Good luck, but SOE won't unban your friend

For your viewing pleasure;

(Hiku style, the guy who laughs at his own jokes and quotes himself)
Read how this honest Smuggler got the shaft!
-and now featuring-
The fearless leader of IMP! (real picture of Davco, laugh your *** off)

Thranxx
Well said. I hope that it will be seriously considered. The sad thing is that while you ask for no special treatment (and you shouldn't) it will require special treatment to get our people re-instated.

While this may not help the short-term, it may revise thier long term approach to banning players. A personal review, not a database query, needs to be seen in something as large as total termination. The individual involved has put so MANY hours into this that it is worth 20 minutes of the time of a CSR to review the account before termination.

*sigh* I hope some sense can be made of the situation. Automatic and canned responses means that no one was reading the e-mail with any thought or attempted assistance before. Hopefully someone with more sense of mind and desired to HELP the customer will pay attention this time.

DaPredetah - Micma' Cabro
Wow!! I cannot believe that this is the mentality of SOE and how their "customer Service" is.
I work in the Customer Service field for IBM. To say that this type of deal with it attitude is completely not acceptable is an understatement. It's down right pathetic.
I hope your friends get unbanned.

Beladan- Rege Girithlin
I don't work in customer service, but I do work as a computer technician and I realize that the most important part of my day is not ensuring that the latest update rolls out correctly, or that the computer works flawlessly.

The most important thing I can do every day is to leave every person that I have contact with during a call with the feeling that they have been heard, respected and that their issue is important to me. I have failed not if I walk away and the PC does not work correctly, but if I walk away and the customer does not feel they have options and an avenue for communication.

SOE is providing a service, and as such are able to dictate who gets that service and who does not. I am not disputing their right to exclude players from the game. But every customer, EVERY customer and even the bad ones, deserve the right to a fair hearing, respect and personal attention.

The cut and paste nature of these replies along with the failure of any CSR to 'own' the problem and work with due diligence to a democratic and mutually acceptable conclusion is the real failure here. It is this, not lack of content, not creature imbalance, not class nerfs, not shuttle waits, not uber loot, not any one of a myriad in-game shortcomings that truly sadden me about this game.

I trust that others will see and hear of the plight of this player and take the time to register their suport for the player and a call to SOE to to act with humility and customer-centric focus and not from the high-handed dictatorial stance it has currently adopted.

dragon90
OMG I KNEW SOE WAS A BULL**edit** COMPANY BUT THATS HORIBLE

my god thats so **edit**ed up geez hope noone WFNs you...this is just so **edit**ed up...

ncleanrodent
Rebel against the system? Start a Forum Strike? Suggestions anyone

VanZant
Greetings All,

I have to say that I'm surprised and apalled that SOE is banning accounts without even speaking to these individuals in-game or conducting any type of detailed investigation. It seems as if SOE just decided "Lets boot anyone who came across some of those duped credits and be done with it." I honestly don't know what their reasoning is... but I expect better. I'll be seriously considering the cancellation of my account if this issue isn't adressed. I'd rather play nothing at all than keep playing a game where my hard work and countless hours could be wiped away for something I didn't even do.

Sincerely,
VanZant

Kukrail
Hey Clab, you show me where the "General Any Topic (w/ SWG) forums are, and I'll gladly post it there.

Alazar Thakir

CLab2021
Its called the galaxies forums..go there go post your trite there...

Beladan

CLab2021 wrote:
Its called the galaxies forums..go there go post your trite there...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Trite isn't actually a noun... I warrant you are thinking of 'tripe'. As in 'something of no value'. Trite is actually an adjective, you know - like 'fast' or 'happy'. You probably know those best as 'describing words'

There really is little need to indulge in personal attacks in this thread. I would certainly welcome any well-reasoned opposing points of view that contribute to the discussion and raise awareness to the issues. I would equally welcome any thoughtful repudiation of the points made above. But, I don't see those.

I realize it is foolish to expect all members of a public forum to act responsibly, yet I hope for something approaching some level of civility. Foolish? Probably. But if nothing else, it gives me the chance to respond to silliness and float this thread back to the top of the forum - where it belongs - in order that the greater good of drawing attention to the important issue it raises is served.
Rege Girithlin - Starsider

CLab2021
I said trite, and I meant trite.(see deffinition 1.)

And as far as your so elloquently put statement, S.T.F.U.

This is The GAT its a forum of nonsenseicalness, and wacklry...

There are plenty of other forums for joo n00bs who can't read to post this junk in...this is a place void of whines and groans so common with 90% of the people on the boards....

....I don't care if there is a vaild point or not to the post it belongs somewhere else, and if I came across it in the forum(s) that it belongs in I might actually read and reply to it with a serious comment...here well no......so WFN

Jedimd
This reeks of OSI bannings in UO awhile back where anyone in the vicinity of a certain area was banned because there was a known exploit going on. I was afraid to even go to that town until OSI fixed the problem for fear I would get banned.

I surely thought SOE was better than that, please don't prove me wrong.

Investigate these cases and bring our friends back to us without any loss to their respective characters.

Rain'Star

EODDiver
WRONG FORUM n00b
Please cease all SWG discussion. You are in the wrong forum.
Why doea it matter?

I don't like to hear your whining about a game. That's why I'm in the General Any Topic(Non-SWG) Thread.

I would attempt to direct you towards the correct forum, however(comma), that is not my job and as I see no reason to help you spread malcontent.

So, basically....just go away if you wish to persue this avenue of discussion.

CLab2021
Finally thanks for the help Eddie...about time someone got in here..I was being overwelmed....

EODDiver
LOL Anytime.

So...what's been going on around here?

Ooooo! Oooooo! I'm back in DEP. Yay!

(Delayed Enterance Program) Should be able to ship out in 3 and a half weeks.

Oooooooo, I was going insane just sitting at home....thank God it's nearly over.

AdaraX
The really amazing part is that no one is forcing you to read it.. If you don't wanna 'read this here', then don't. Posting snide comments and childishness is hardly necessary though.. oh, wait, you said that's all reserved for other forums -- good to see things are so much more mature here.

And the post made by Alazar isn't 'whining', its an articulate, clearly written post, outlining some issues -- if it doesn't interest you, feel free to move along and save your amazingly more mature and eloquent than other forums.. 'n00b' comments for the rest of your threads..

Emanon74

And you feel its ok to post about BH problems in the Ranger forum......how about one server come in and put adds in about what they have for sale on another server. Yeah you don't HAVE to read them but they are in the WRONG place. There is NOTHING wrong with them saying that this is in the wrong forum because .......IT IS!
Ryla

AdaraX

Isn't what they're saying, it's how it's being said.. *shrugs* What is the right forum then? with Gen Discussion closed? The other 'non swg' forum? This is an issue that impacts everyone - it could be someone you know, or your own account tomorrow. There are people getting banned every time SOE comes through over these exploits who are proven later to NOT have done it, and it's nearly impossible to get any sort of real response from any of the avenues THEY provide for resolution.

So what is the 'right' forum? There isn't one, because they took that away so they didn't have to respond to those things either.

As I said - if you wanna post something constructive about what's here - whether you agree with it or not, groovy. Posting huge red obnoxious messages, however, while chiming in about how this is the place 'without the childishness' of the other forums is a bit ironic.

Emanon74

Well I'm sorry you took the post that hard. Many are like that around here.

This is a GAT (Non SWG) forum and posting rants about the game are not enjoyed here. This is not the place to get this off your chest. My guess would be game guides or the server forum. Yes they are not the perfect place but its better than here. Ohhh you may also try tech support.

You couldn't expect too much support going into a forum where people like to post stuff that has nothing to do with the game and they find a rant about the game.
Ryla

olmanjenkins
Its funny how this was a thread about a problem and now the problem is the thread. This does say General ANY Topic (Star Wars or Not) and if im not mistaken this is anything. Its not like posting a BH question in a ranger forum because this forum is about anything while the ranger forum is about rangers, im not going to get into specifics. However, someone who could help you better may be on another forum, a more technical forum if you will .
As for the banned accounts: I would use the divine wrath to strike sony down if they took away my account for something i know i didnt do. Afterall taking your account away is like taking a bit of your life.

olmanjenkins
This is about business more than SWG , i forgot to add the (non-swg) part to the general any topic line. If a company cannot handle, or handle but mess up, something as trivial as this than they should not be in business.

Beladan
Agreed.
This is not a discussion of SWG but rather how a company chooses to deal with it's customers and call to re-examine it's disciplinary measures. See? I don't need idiotic red letters calling people names to make a point.

And there is no whining. Just a rehearsal of the facts and a request to re-examine it's BUSINESS descision in regards to a CUSTOMER. There is no 'eyeshot sux' here.

And as pointless as this will be - the post can BE trite, but you can't post trite. Grammar 101.

Kukrail

The fact of the matter is, they dont HAVE a GAT (SWG) forum. The Galaxy forums are server specific, and the Technical Support forum wouldnt be appropriate for this discussion.

This isnt a rant about the game, as some have tried to pin it, but a reqeust for answers. I in no way made any rips against game mechanics, complained about any type of PVP imbalance or any other small function of the game that I didnt like. I actually stated that I supported the Development team in their efforts to create a cheater-free environment, but I was calling them out on 2 accounts and wanted some more answers, as these people deserved to know. Alazar Thakir

Cbollo
You GATers are the only ones guilty of misusing this forum that I can see.. Flaming a well written and justified post in large red block quotes? That's what nOObs do.. GAT militia? Most improved GATer? Wow. You guys should be proud, cause after all, you do such a great job.. Please. lmao And I'm sure you're gonna want to post some witty comebacks, or flame me and the others for trying to get our issue recognized so that we can HELP OUR FRIENDS. Please do, you just make yourself look like the immature troll kings of the forum.(oops, too late, you already did that) Do everyone a favor and put the dictionary away, drop the l337 dOOd BS, and change your PA titles to Most Improved/Valuable Hijackers of the month. Either post something constructive, or don't post at all. Kyyr Xaphax

Drenarb

I think the issue about account banning is serious. I'm sure everyone would feel the same way if they were playing a game they enjoy, and then, without notification or anything, they were banned for no apparent reason. I, like many others, wouldn't know an exploit if I got an e-mail from someone saying, "Hey, do this to get more credits!" So, because I don't know what a certain exploit is and I accidentally do it, or take part in it unknowingly, and I get banned for it without an investigation or an in-game e-mail warning me that I have been exploiting is wrong in my opinion.


And the last post was to lock the thread.



Edited, Sun Jan 25 09:18:38 2004 by Nasaan
#4 Jan 25 2004 at 10:42 AM Rating: Decent
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120 posts
I am sorry for your friend Falcor, that is a lot of grief and frustration to deal with over a game. He must like the game and have good friends (such as yourself) that make him want to stick with it.

Unfortuantely, what SoE is doing is just an example of everyday "justice" in the United States.

Don't get me wrong, I love my country, and I work in Law Enforcement (so get to see it up close) but....

Here is an example,

Imagine your coming home from a long day at work supporting your wife and two kids, you stop to get some milk and bread at the local convience store.

About 30 minutes after you leave that store, someone robs and kills the clerk, but "eye witnesses" remember only your car and YOU.

The local police come and arrest you, in front of your wife and kids, and your taken to the local jail. Along the way there, your picture is put on the local tv and paper news.

You live month to month, so cannot affored the high bond/bail that is set on you, so must wait in Jail until trial.

The trial takes 4-5 months to start, meanwhile, you have lost your home because you are no longer working, and cannot support your family.

Just before the trial is set to begin, a similiar crime takes place, and they catch the "real" criminal.

You are released from Jail and all charges dropped.

You are not apologized to, you do not get your house back, probably lucky if you get your job back, people will ALWAYS associate you with the crime (they will forget that you were innocent), and you have just LOST 4-5 months of your life for NOTHING.

This happens ALL to frequently because of the nature of our Criminal Justice system.

For all it's drawbacks, it is better than probably 97% of the world.

So, while I feel very sorry for Falcor, I don't feel sorry for the other people that were GUILTY.

Yes, SWG could have handled their mistake better. People skills is a lacking commodity in society today.

I also understand WHY they took your post off because it is dealing with a hypothetical situation.

Yes, it started with fact about Falcor but than you moved off into a "what if" situation. In theory, Falcor could be the ONLY person they made a mistake with, or maybe he isn't. We don't know, so it becomes pointless to speculate.

Howard Dean could speculate that when George Bush was a kid, he loved to take over Asia in the game of Risk by any means he could, and that these pre-disposition to acquire Asia is WHY we attacked Iraq.

Does he have prove? No, but Bush doesn't have proof either...

Just some off the wall thoughts...
#5 Jan 25 2004 at 11:51 AM Rating: Decent
I was one of the banned in Alazar's post on the SoE forums. After plenty of wrangling, I did find out some info (though I am still banned). I am posting the same post I sent to my fellow guildies, after learning the info:

Quote:
I just got off the phone with a CSR Jeff, and he was a nice understanding guy, but he had his hands tied. He did give me the following valuble, and very relieving (they had me thinking I was also a credit duper, without knowing it... gestapo crap):

1. I did not dupe anything.

2. It did not happen this month (January)

3. The reason I was flagged was: Someone gave me 30,000 credits.

I asked what the significance of 30k was, and he said it wasn't the amount, it was the way it was done. He said that it was multiple transfers, which all happened within a single second.

I asked if the TOTAL was 30k, or it was in increments of 30k, and he would not respond, but it sounded more like the total was only 30k (he might of confirmed during his explanation of the simultaneous transfers, but I'm not quite sure).

He would not give the other persons name, date (including just the month it happened), or the nature of the transaction (why the person gave me the money). This bothered me a little, seeing as how the other person should be banned as well, and thus I cannot harm their reputation more than it already is.

Thats the news. I am so very super relieved to know that I didn't actually do anything, and that I'm not even really at fault. Now lets see if sending this info to Sony gets me my account back, and if so, how damaged?


So the CSR over the phone said I was innocent pretty much, but that he couldn't do anything about it. 10+ emails to Sony since I was banned over a week ago, and nothing but 'pre-written' excuses about why they CAN NOT and WILL NOT review my account, because I've already been determined a cheater, my account cancelled, and case closed.
Nothing since I've sent them the above post (cleaned up politically correct like), on Friday 23JAN. So just sitting here and waiting. :(
#6 Jan 25 2004 at 7:34 PM Rating: Decent
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128 posts
Well Nasaan I would like to say that this is one of the better posts concerning the way SOE handles their customers. And I would have to say that your posts getting closed just enhances your point even more: that there is indeed a HUGE problem with communication between customers and the CSRs.

Im not sure if its similar to the problem of the two pple that you are representing, but I have been unable to login to the SWG client for two days. When I go to log into the official site, it says that my username and password could not be found. Im not sure if this is just something to do with the servers, but when I emailed customer support, I just get the runaround, saying I can email them back or talk to a CSR via livechat, or contact one through the Holocron in game WHEN I CANT ACTUALLY login in a first place.

To me for issues such as this you should have another option to talk to someone, say as a guest, especially since the hours that you can talk to someone via phone are very limited.


Well I just wanted to say good luck to getting ur friends issues resolved, and If I get the chance I may send a tell to ya in game, as my secondary character is on Starsider...
#7 Jan 25 2004 at 8:34 PM Rating: Decent
43 posts
How disgraceful is it that a company has such terrible customer service that its' customers have to resort to posting threads about them on forum.

I would consider this a PR nightmare if I were in Customer Relations at SWG. To that, I will add that it is not just on this forum that this is being discussed.

It is also on forums of games that aren't even out yet. Players are "warning" developers not to use SOE as a model for their CSR's. In fact, they are asking that no one from SOE be hired as a CSR.

These are the same players that will mass exodus to those other games when they do come out - not because SWG is so bad rather that SOE is.

I can't tell you how much I wish SOE had not gotten to develop this game.

I wish you and your friends the very best of luck with this.


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