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New to a guild? Some tips.Follow

#1 Feb 21 2008 at 8:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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I realize that some players are young or unfamiliar with guilds (and one in mine is irritating the crap out of me and everyone) I thought maybe a thread about what to do and not do was in order.

  • Calm down. No really, calm down. Kara, heroics, epix, all that stuff will happen and get done. For now, just calm down.
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  • Don't get upset if you don't automatically get put as a regular in a raid slot. Group composition, gear and ability are important factors when forming a raid and you may not meet one or more of those. You'll get your chance, I promise, but does it really have to be in your first week?
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  • To the point above - if a class leader tells you that you're not geared appropriately, take steps to gear yourself appropriately
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  • And relating to that - gearing yourself appropriately does NOT mean that when you do get to go to Kara, you tell everyone upon seeing the loot that it's "yours". Some people have been running Kara for months to get that drop. Yes, it would be a significant upgrade for you, but for them it means they get to move on and... make a spot for you in the raid. Don't be a loot whore.
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  • When you DO get awarded loot because, upon discussion with other people of your class in the raid, they feel it's an upgrade don't say "Well what am I supposed to do with this, it's got less +healing on it than what I have" Pay attention when people explain that your current piece has no spell crit OR MP5 on it which more than make up for that 11 drop in healing. Also pay attention when people tell you that your PVP gear is inappropriate for raiding - remember that point about being properly geared for the raid before you can be a regular? Yeah, that.
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  • If you're asking for mana pots at the beginning of the raid, you fail. If you're trying to get into a raid group you'd better be prepared for the raid. Being prepared for it doesn't include mooching consumables off of people. Sure sometimes you run out and we usually swap around amogst each other, but you should at least make the effort
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  • If you've asked someone to help your PuG out in a run and they say they will when they're through with the current commitment of helping out other guildies do NOT whisper them incessantly to ask if they're done yet. If you can't wait, get someone else. They'll be done when they're done.
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  • If said guildie does come and help you out do not try to tell them how to play their class or buff themselves, especially in party chat. If you have a concern, whisper it. But note that if you're going to do so, you'd better be playing your class/spec pretty freaking well. Flash of Light is inappropriate for healing heroics. When the epic geared tank goes down when you have 3/4 mana (after blowing LoH himself), that's not the tank's fault and no buff in the world is going to fix that
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  • Tone things down in guild chat. Not everything is about you. We're all after gear and we're really happy when each other get it and sympathize with the struggles to get it. That said, we don't want to hear about it all the time
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  • If you can't get a guild group to go to your heroic because half are in Kara and half are in ZA (or everyone's in Gruul's) don't sulk. We really only raid 3 nights a week that leaves 4 for you
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  • If you consistently can't get people to run with you, see the points about gear and ability above.
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  • THe guild bank is not your personal bank. Just because you see something in there that you want doesn't mean you get it. You've been with the guild a week. Farm your own consumables/rep items/armor/weapons. Besides, we (and I'm sure we're not alone) have sort of a tacit, unspoken rule about the guild bank. The people that contribute to it and seldom ask for things will likely, upon mentioning that they need to farm mats for an enchant, have a mailbox full of the stuff in an hour. If you ask for stuff, especially if you haven't contributed anything, chances are the answer is going to be no.
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In short: relax, listen to the people that are further along than you, keep your mouth shut or whisper concerns privately if you think something's wrong, don't demand everything.

If you put in the effort, you'll get your chance, guilds often try to rotate people in and out of things and mine, anyway, is generous to a fault. But we're not schmucks. We're not just going to give away everything to someone, you have to do your part too.
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I must admit, I'm much nicer to people IRL. It's not that the internet makes me bold, it's just that in real life I can only kill people once, so there's no point in camping them afterwards.
#2 Feb 21 2008 at 8:46 AM Rating: Default
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After going through 3 guilds on the PvP realm I recently rolled on, I got more than a little fed up with a lot of the behaviors (and the complete lack of willingness on the part of the leadership to do anything about it) and decided to make my own.

People who matched the characteristics you listed above would not last in my guild. I've had people join, run straight to the bank, notice that our guild (where the highest level member at the time was 32) did not have a guild vault, and immediately /gquit. I had a level 14 Warlock (aspiring to be a level 19 twink) grind me relentlessly to designate class leader ranks and make him the Warlock class leader. Because...you know...a level 20+ Warlock is really going to take the advice of a level 19 Warlock seriously...

I'm not afraid to call people on inappropriate behavior, and if they give me grief or continue with the behavior, I'm not the least bit afraid to /gkick them. My guild has been growing slowly but surely, and there are a lot of other people in the guild who would enjoy a more mature atmosphere than what too many players are willing to contribute to. There are plenty of other guilds that thrive on that kind of behavior...I don't need to make space for it in mine.
#3 Feb 21 2008 at 8:51 AM Rating: Default
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I dont know what give you the idea but flash of light is a very viable heal to use in heroics...Do you expect a Holy light spam LoL

Any way to actaully add a little to the post. My guild seems to have more of a problem with the 16-21 year olds wow think there gods gift to raiding rather then the younger players. Im in a raidng guld in ssc/TK and our best healer is a 12 year old priest who may have a very annoying voice but knows what hes talking about. Infact we have a whole family that plays with us father, mother and 2 sons the youngest being 18, that are the worst players I have ever raided with, not that there bad players they just have terrible terrible attitudes and disruptive to raids talk back to officers and GMs. If I was a GM or an officer I would have booted them a year ago.
#4 Feb 21 2008 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
Excellent primer, Celcio! I'd throw a couple of personal peeves in there as well:

  • Please don't constantly talk down about the other guild(s) you've been in. Honestly, most people in the guild you've just joined don't really care how incompetent everyone else in your old guild was, or how nobody could out-DPS you, or how none of their tanks were good enough to keep aggro off you. In all honesty, if you have that many problems with everyone else in your old guild, maybe the problem isn't everyone else. It also makes your new guildmates wonder if you'll do the same for them once you move on to yet another guild.


  • Please, for the love of all that's good, don't constantly link every single purple item that you encounter. Yes, they're shiney and pretty and everyone wants them. However, most of us know how to inspect people ourselves and see what the shiney items are. While an occasional link is okay, doing nothing but drool over everyone else's epics in the guild channel tends to get rather tedious to everyone else.


  • You don't have to impress everyone with your ability to curse like a syphilitic sailor. Everyone drops the occasional word here or there, especially when doing BGs or getting frustrated with something, but calling your mother a "@#%^ing whore" because she's making you do the chores you were supposed to finish before playing doesn't make you look that cool, in all honesty.


  • Enjoy whatever you're doing, but use some common sense when deciding how much everyone else wants to know about it. A perfect example would be when you go into a battleground, and giving a 20-minute blow-by-blow account of everything you're doing in said battleground. Yes, it's nice that you've gotten more killing blows than anyone else and now everyone on the other side is gunning for you. It also means that some of us are wondering how you got a single KB, with all of the typing (or Venting) you're doing. It also makes us realise that you're more interested in killing players than meeting the BG's objectives, which doesn't impress many of us. If everyone decided to give a blow-by-blow of everything they were doing in the game as they did it, I'd have to block out guild chat.


  • Those are my personal peeves... hope to read more! Smiley: grin
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    #5 Feb 21 2008 at 9:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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    fhfire wrote:
    I dont know what give you the idea but flash of light is a very viable heal to use in heroics...Do you expect a Holy light spam LoL


    Not at all, but when you refuse to use Holy Light at all and cause a wipe by killing the tank that's a problem, no?

    Aurelius - I hear what you're saying - we had another of these in my guild before and they left because they weren't getting enough Kara runs (horribly geared, and horribly played) so maybe this one will too.

    But I do wonder how many people just get so excited they don't know any better - or haven't bothered to think about some of the things. Others are just fail no matter how you look at it.
    ____________________________
    Kavekk wrote:
    I must admit, I'm much nicer to people IRL. It's not that the internet makes me bold, it's just that in real life I can only kill people once, so there's no point in camping them afterwards.
    #6 Feb 21 2008 at 9:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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    Good post. Very common-sensical. Would rate up if I could.
    #7 Feb 21 2008 at 9:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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    HOW TO: Have Fun and Be Successful in a Guild

    From this (very good) blog: http://wowgrrl.com/2007/03/06/guildmates-are-not-automatically-friends-elitism/

    TL/DR summary: "Your guildmates are not a bunch of NPCs that activate when you log in."

    Guildmates Are Not Automatically Friends; Elitism

    There’s an interesting discussion thread going on in the World of Warcraft Official Forums under the Guild Relations board, surrounding the topic of whether it’s asking too much to be able to find instance and quest-grinding parties in guilds.

    Of course, there are a lot of different opinions being posted in this thread, but because the forum is aimed towards Guild Masters and Officers and others who are in charge of running guilds and guild activities, at least the post hasn’t turned into a flame-fest. Yet.

    What The Problem Looks Like

    In every guild, there are players who join and find it difficult to get the help they feel they need to complete quests and get nice equipment from instances. While initially they’re able to get into parties, they find that more and more often, when they ask on the guild line about anything going on, their question is met with silence or a few “sorry, I can’t go” responses.

    In time, these players get frustrated, and they quit the guild and move on to a new one trying to get the help they need, form their own guild, or they get more insistent on the guild line and through private whispers to guildmates. The general feeling they have is that everyone is ignoring them and they can’t get the help/answers they need, and on top of that, they’re seeing others get their questions answered and others find the help/parties they need without near as much struggle.

    To the person having troubles finding parties or guildmates to team up with, it seems unfair, and calls of “elitism” and “cliquishness” start to ring out.

    What The Problem Fails To Take Into Account

    In my opinion, it’s super easy to find new “friends” in World of Warcraft, and from there, parties. Yep, I’m one of those people who would likely get called an “elitist” by those folks who have troubles finding parties and “online friends”, but I find their label quite funny, since they seem to be blaming ME for their troubles, as if that’s going to make me want to include them as a friend!

    What are their (main) troubles in my opinion (as someone who can find parties no problem)?

    * Players assume that because they’re now guildmates, all other guildmates are automatically upgraded to “friends” status
    * Players may assume that it is an Officer’s “job” to help Members with quests and dungeons, etc
    * Players fail to make plans in advance
    * Players are constantly looking for a party and seemingly cannot play without grouping up

    And now to clarify what I mean…

    Guildmates != Friends

    In life in general, I think people misuse the word “Friend” an awful lot. Personally, I know I misuse it myself simply because it’s “easier” to say “I have this friend…” instead of saying “There’s this guy I know…” or “I have this acquaintance…” because the latter two sayings tend to invite topic-derailing challenges more often than the first one.

    But, on an online game just like when it comes time to move In Real Life, the whole “friends” label seems to need a little bit more clarification. After all, would you ask a near-complete stranger to help you move across town, choosing him just because you work at the same company?

    On a game, “friends” tend to be the people you can turn to for help or for humor. But just like in Real Life, friendships need to be built - and they don’t automatically form just because you play in the same guild as someone else, or even if you have already participated in a few dungeon runs with others.

    To me, a guild is simply this: Something designed to give players consistent access to a smaller percentage of the Realm’s population on a more regular basis than if we all wandered around guildless and just used the General channel to communicate. From there, it’s up to the individual players to find successful strategies for building a Friends list separate from their Guild Roster which is full of reliable players who also enjoy partying and instancing and can be called upon to party up.

    Officers For A Reason

    For some reason, some players jump to the conclusion that a Guild Officer’s primary responsibility is helping otherwise-friendless guildmates finish their quests or get through dungeon instances.

    It’s easy to spy those ones - shortly after they join, they’re asking Officers and other high level guildmates through guild chat and whisper for assistance on any quest they’re currently thinking of tackling, and every time they log in, they ask about any dungeon runs that the Officers may be leading. Oh, and they feel “left out” when they can’t easily get into a party that Officers are a part of.

    Personally, I became a Guild Officer a year ago specifically because I demonstrated an ability to make friends and both lead dungeon instance parties and listen to another dungeon instance party leader when I wasn’t taking the lead. As a Guild Officer, I had already built a lot of friendships with current and ex-Guildmates. Before I became an officer, I already had no problem finding parties (with my Hunter, no less), and once I became an Officer, that didn’t “suddenly” improve.

    So, for those who think that the Officers are being cliquish, consider this - they’ve already done the work required to build a quality Friends list (some in the guild and some outside of it), and it’s not their Officer status that has done this work for them. Take the time to build your own Friends list instead of riding on the coattails of the already-popular members of your guild.

    Fail to Plan, Plan to Fail

    Especially in a Casual guild, it’s tough to get enough people of the right levels together at the same time to run an instance or work on difficult “group” quests. For this reason, I personally encourage party planning in advance. As a result, members who are unable to plan in advance for various reasons may very well find themselves “left out” in terms of help, because my response rate to “who wants to do X right now” is probably under 5%.

    Why do I “have” to plan in advance? Mainly, because I’ve got limited play time. As an adult, I’ve got a job and hobbies that take me out of the house and an apartment to maintain and food to cook and animals to care for. Plus, I’ve got a billion goals for my 4 actively-playing toons. And frankly, I just like to plan things in advance, even if it’s just a few hours or day beforehand.

    In the thread linked above, someone made a perfect comment in regards to this topic of planning run times. It went something like this:
    Quote:
    Your guildmates are not a bunch of NPCs that activate when you log in.


    In other words, we’re all humans who have our own goals and own plans, and unless your guild chat looking for a party hits us at the exact moment that we’re bored and open to suggestion for what to do, we’ve already got plans.

    The Damage of Always Looking For A Party

    In terms of building my Friends list, I personally value independence. While I may add the occasional “needy” person to my Friends list for a while, they tend to be removed in a short period of time because their neediness overwhelms my ability to give.

    This topic really just goes back to the underlying theme of “take the time to build your friends list” which, to me, is one of the primary problems a lot of these “everyone’s ignoring my pleas for help” people. In my opinion, any player who is constantly asking for someone to party up with them on the general guild line is someone who is completely focussed on their own goals and needs and completely ignorant of effective social behavior to accomplish these goals.

    The result, to me, of someone who is ignorant of effective social behavior in putting together a Friends list of quality, reliable, friendly people… is that they never end up on my Friends list, and even though they’re guildmates, are dangerously close to making it on to my Ignore list.
    #8 Feb 21 2008 at 1:01 PM Rating: Good
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    zepoodle wrote:
    Good post. Very common-sensical. Would rate up if I could.


    And now you can!

    I know this is off-topic, but I know I didn't notice when I turned Scholar and could start rating up posts for months!
    #9 Feb 21 2008 at 1:09 PM Rating: Decent
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    I have a person like this in our guild, every time it's closer to raiding he non stops linking items that will be upgrades. I mean we are talking at least 6 lines of gear he wants or gear he's seen.

    Quote:
    but calling your mother a "@#%^ing whore" because she's making you do the chores you were supposed to finish before playing doesn't make you look that cool, in all honesty.


    I almost spilled water all over my work computer when I read this, instead it came out of my nose since I had to cover my mouth.
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