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#27 Jan 24 2014 at 12:20 PM Rating: Good
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Bringing it back to the updated model, good eyes are crucial for me and good bone structure for the face. I tend to be fond of a fairly triangular or fox faced look. One thing that I like about the new model is that better shading has filled out the structure of the body. The new model has eyes and cheekbones.

Argh! I'm watching Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and Agent May looks far too much like Tyger.
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#28 Jan 24 2014 at 12:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Nice "Deer caught in the headlights" look. Smiley: lol
#29 Jan 26 2014 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
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Lyrailis wrote:
Lean, compared to people IRL. WoW's human female is what, about 150lb maybe, assuming she's 5'6''? I don't know about where you live, but where I live, a 5'6'' girl is commonly 180+, some upwards of 250lb (with the occasional blood-elf types mixed in). Finding someone who's 5'6'' and between 120 and 180lbs is a very rare thing indeed.


Say what? 250 pounds? Are we using the same pounds? Smiley: dubious

Lyrailis wrote:
Good ole 'murica.


Oh, right. Smiley: lol

I'm 6'4" and ~200 lbs, and I've only met a handful of women who weighed more than me.

Edited, Jan 26th 2014 5:08pm by Mazra
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#30 Jan 26 2014 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent
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A 250lb woman would be more than a handful........



Mazra wrote:


Oh, right. Smiley: lol

I'm 6'4" and ~200 lbs, and I've only met a handful of women who weighed more than me.

Edited, Jan 26th 2014 5:08pm by Mazra

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#31 Jan 26 2014 at 5:09 PM Rating: Decent
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I had a co-worker awhile back who was 5'6'' - 5'7'' (I'm 5'8'') who claimed she was 205. And she's nowhere near as large as some of the customers I've seen coming through the place.
#32 Jan 26 2014 at 6:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Blizzard just added this gif concerning the female model.

I was wrong about the model being skinner. I guess defining where the muscles are gave the illusion of her being skinnier side by side.
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#33 Jan 27 2014 at 7:37 AM Rating: Good
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It certainly changes the overall look of her figure, though, going from the smooth body to the defined one. I'm not gonna say that's bad (I mean, in context, the model IS particularly active). But I will miss the more realistic, less-defined model in ways, too.

That said, I'm not complaining. I'm just happy the models are finally getting replaced, and I recognize that multiple body type options were never going to happen. And I'm MUCH happier with a model that has definition and curves compared to one that's just ************ fodder.

Side note: how has WoW been better about the whole "I'm wearing Plate armor that looks like a Princess Leia slave outfit" thing? They had a bad period, and I remember every so often the tier gear would have massive holes right in front (because, you know, that makes sense).

Drives me insane when games do that... (For men, too, for the record. Though that's relatively rare outside of FFXI/XIV).
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#34 Jan 27 2014 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
Recent gear hasn't been bad. There's been the occasional exposed sternum or navel, but as a whole it's been pretty modest.

That said, with Transmog being an option you see boobplate everywhere.
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#35 Jan 27 2014 at 11:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Which is probably the best thing about transmog, at least I suspect from Blizzards perspective. They don't have to risk a backlash by creating those kinds of outfits so much anymore, and at the same time access to them has been increased so that everyone can wear them if they want to put in the effort. The juxtaposition of those two ends of the spectrum is a bit amusing to say the least.
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#36 Jan 27 2014 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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IDrownFish of the Seven Seas wrote:
Recent gear hasn't been bad. There's been the occasional exposed sternum or navel, but as a whole it's been pretty modest.

That said, with Transmog being an option you see boobplate everywhere.


That's true. But having REAL options is important.

Partially for males like me, who get driven up the wall by gear that utterly breaks any attempt to be realistic.

But more importantly for female gamers. I know a lot of them, it's a statistically relevant group, and pretty much all of them die a little inside every time an upgrade amounts to 1-2 pieces of fabric and a string. Particularly when they're playing melee characters and not casters.

[EDIT]

I realize the "But" makes it sound like I'm disagreeing with you somehow. I'm not. I meant it more like "Be that as it may, it's still nice that..."

Edited, Jan 27th 2014 12:51pm by idiggory
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#37 Jan 27 2014 at 12:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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In conversations with the wife, we usually settle on a "there's nothing wrong with a skimpy costume if it actually looks good" kind of thing. So her red-headed blood elf hunter with her fiery Core Hound pet and battleforge armor (substituting that skimpy orange top people like to put with it) was one of her favorites to play. All has to be in context though, seeing skin just to see skin doesn't cut it.
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#38 Jan 27 2014 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
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Most of the female gamers I know don't necessarily scoff at the idea of said armor existing, it's more an issue of being forced into it (particularly in games where there are established models you can't change).

And WAY too many games (cough Tera cough) have such an over-abundance of **** armor, because they're clearly only targetting the male demographic. So then the female gamers not only feel awkward, but also alienated. Which makes it a really stupid design decision in the first place - nothing like making a decision to alienate a solid 30-40+% of your market, when the male population was pretty much guaranteed anyway.
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#39 Jan 27 2014 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
And WAY too many games (cough Tera cough) have such an over-abundance of **** armor, because they're clearly only targetting the male demographic. So then the female gamers not only feel awkward, but also alienated.


I don't get this.

Should I be alienated by the Greek god looks of my male characters?
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#40 Jan 27 2014 at 2:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
Should I be alienated by the Greek god looks of my male characters?
If they're ugly. Link 'em and let us decide. Smiley: grin

But yeah TERA, that game set any visions of emerging armor equality back a good decade on its own. Smiley: rolleyes
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#41 Jan 27 2014 at 2:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think the issue lie with what fantasy it is. Female characters tend to fall into the sexual fantasy while the males tend to fall in the power fantasy. **** pandaren are the first race in WoW to not fall in that trap. Noteworthy are female dwarfs but the males were nothing but power fantasies in beards.

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
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#42 Jan 27 2014 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
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Criminy wrote:
I think the issue lie with what fantasy it is. Female characters tend to fall into the sexual fantasy while the males tend to fall in the power fantasy. **** pandaren are the first race in WoW to not fall in that trap. Noteworthy are female dwarfs but the males were nothing but power fantasies in beards.

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.


I think that pretty much nails it.

When you're playing a game, you don't want to feel constantly objectified by the game design, particularly not when the population of mouth breathers is already disgusting.
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#43 Jan 27 2014 at 2:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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A lack of normal social restraint combined with a sexually charged environment is always win.
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#44 Jan 27 2014 at 4:20 PM Rating: Good
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Criminy wrote:
I think the issue lie with what fantasy it is. Female characters tend to fall into the sexual fantasy while the males tend to fall in the power fantasy. **** pandaren are the first race in WoW to not fall in that trap. Noteworthy are female dwarfs but the males were nothing but power fantasies in beards.

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.


That's a good way of putting it, but it causes me to ask this question:

Why is it that almost nobody complains about these "power fantasy" males, but yet soooooo many people complain about sexual fantasy females?

Is there some reason why one is OK with most and the other, not?

Don't get me wrong; too much of anything can be bad (yes, I'm a guy who... has limits as to how much sexuality I want to be bombarded with, there's a point where too much becomes "meh, already seen this"), I'm just merely curious as to the reasoning behind the discrimination between the two.

The mentality makes sense; the guys want more *** on average, the girls like to see powerful men who can get things done (at least, that's the average; there's people who go against this).

Even though I'm a guy IRL, I'd have to say that if I'm to play a male character... I'd rather play one that gets crap done. Don't have to be ridiculously ripped, but yet.... there's a reason why I lost interest in Final Fantasy games lately. The skinny emo-heavy boytoys just.... no thanks.

As for female characters, welll......

*grins*

I can't help it, I like a girl who looks decent, but can get crap done. Fem!Shep in Mass Effect. A Female Boss in Saint's Row 3 or 4 (Female Voice 1 of course!). The girls you do _not_ want to mess with, but yet still look reasonably well (without needing skimpy armor).

And I always end up putting straight long black hair on these girls too. I guess that's just how I like em.
#45 Jan 27 2014 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Is there some reason why one is OK with most and the other, not?


Yeah, there are several reasons why people believe that to be the case. I'm puzzled you've never seen any of these positions articulated. You can find any number of explanations very easily, and you may choose to read whichever ones you like; the ones most easily dismissed, perhaps, if that is your preference. There are a couple of them above, actually.

I doubt a discussion of it here would be very productive. More importantly, it would be eminently dull. Dear chap.
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#46 Jan 27 2014 at 5:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kavekk wrote:
Yeah, there are several reasons why people believe that to be the case. I'm puzzled you've never seen any of these positions articulated. You can find any number of explanations very easily, and you may choose to read whichever ones you like; the ones most easily dismissed, perhaps, if that is your preference. There are a couple of them above, actually.

I doubt a discussion of it here would be very productive. More importantly, it would be eminently dull. Dear chap.


Wow. You actually managed to put zero information into your post while at the same time being extremely condescending. Good job!
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#47 Jan 27 2014 at 5:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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TherealLogros wrote:
Kavekk wrote:
Yeah, there are several reasons why people believe that to be the case. I'm puzzled you've never seen any of these positions articulated. You can find any number of explanations very easily, and you may choose to read whichever ones you like; the ones most easily dismissed, perhaps, if that is your preference. There are a couple of them above, actually.

I doubt a discussion of it here would be very productive. More importantly, it would be eminently dull. Dear chap.


Wow. You actually managed to put zero information into your post while at the same time being extremely condescending. Good job!
It was as impressive. Not as good as Kavekkk normally does, but noteworthy nonetheless.

I'm going with "*** sells" holding true in conversation as well as practice. It gets more attention because people find the subject matter more appealing for the same reasons.
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#48 Jan 27 2014 at 5:21 PM Rating: Good
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Criminy wrote:
I think the issue lie with what fantasy it is. Female characters tend to fall into the sexual fantasy while the males tend to fall in the power fantasy.


From a straight, male perspective, yes, but what about from a straight, female perspective? Or a *** male/female perspective? Would they not have different perspectives?

Criminy wrote:
**** pandaren are the first race in WoW to not fall in that trap.


Um, what?

Female Pandaren are considerably cuter and more attractive than female Worgen, Forsaken and Tauren.* And male Pandaren are probably more power trip inducing than male Gnomes...

*In my opinion, of course.

Edit: I give up; I can't find a **** picture of a female Worgen.

Edited, Jan 28th 2014 12:32am by Mazra
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#49 Jan 27 2014 at 5:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
Um, what?

Female Pandaren are considerably cuter and more attractive than female Worgen, Forsaken and Tauren.* And male Pandaren are probably more power trip inducing than male Gnomes...

*In my opinion, of course.

Edit: I give up; I can't find a **** picture of a female Worgen.


Goblins may be a better example than Pandaren.
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#50 Jan 27 2014 at 5:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lyrailis wrote:


Why is it that almost nobody complains about these "power fantasy" males, but yet soooooo many people complain about sexual fantasy females?

Is there some reason why one is OK with most and the other, not?


Complicated really. Two things that come to mind when I think about it.

- Power fantasy style males tend to be also sexual fantasies. Female characters who are sexual fantasies tend not to be a power fantasy. For example, one of the top sexual fantasy female characters is the blood elf female.

- Muscular males tend to rank fairly high on what a female would find sexual. So for male characters, they can actually achieve both the power fantasy plus the sexual ones. Mind you, I don't think females look at a dwarf or orc male and get a raging lady ***** but if you notice all but two have defined muscles and one of the two has pecs.

Lyrailis wrote:
I can't help it, I like a girl who looks decent, but can get crap done. Fem!Shep in Mass Effect. A Female Boss in Saint's Row 3 or 4 (Female Voice 1 of course!). The girls you do _not_ want to mess with, but yet still look reasonably well (without needing skimpy armor).


I agree. There is a reason I enjoy playing a female pandaren in WoW.

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#51 Jan 27 2014 at 5:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Wow. You actually managed to put zero information into your post while at the same time being extremely condescending. Good job!


To be perhaps over-frank, I despair that a state of affairs so contrary to my intentions should have come about through my own foolish actions. I apologise for this intrusion, ladies and gentlemen, from the bottom of my heart. The very bottom.

Allow me to fetter your learned discussion no longer; please, do proceed with your considered arguments on the merits of feminist critiques on the presentation of women in popular media. I am sure your discussion will be fruitful and elucidating in equal measure. As it seems I do not have the intellect to participate, I shall retire to my rooms for the night.

A good evening to you all.
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