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#52 Nov 20 2013 at 5:52 PM Rating: Excellent
*pssst* It's LAWN, not YARD. You old **** wrong.

I hope the heirloom tab also includes the ability to equip the same heirloom piece on more than one alt at a time. That would be awesome. I get tired of mailing trinkets and the staff back and forth between my shaman, lock and pally (she just gets the trinkets obv.).
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#53 Nov 20 2013 at 7:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:

I hope the heirloom tab also includes the ability to equip the same heirloom piece on more than one alt at a time. That would be awesome. I get tired of mailing trinkets and the staff back and forth between my shaman, lock and pally (she just gets the trinkets obv.).


I hear ya and I don't see why that would not be an option.


PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
*pssst* It's LAWN, not YARD. You old **** wrong.


True, since I said yard I would need to tell the kids to get out of, not off of. Buzzkill. Smiley: glare
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#54 Nov 23 2013 at 6:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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You should be able to have several pieces of the same heirloom in use at the same time. The way it works (I think I read somewhere) is that you click on the heirloom you want to use and then this item is generated into your inventory. So it should be possible to do this on several characters or, in case of 1hand weapons, twice on the same character.
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#55 Nov 23 2013 at 7:09 AM Rating: Good
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I wonder if they'll give you a "counter" or something, so it ends up more like a bank that's shared across your account?

I hope, if not, they give us a sellback option for heirlooms we purchased multiples of. Like trinkets, DW weapons, etc.
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#56 Nov 23 2013 at 7:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think it's unlikely that people with multiple copies of the same heirloom get anything out of it. The only precedent I can think of is when mounts went accountwide. Owners of more than one copy of the same goldsink-mount weren't reimbursed either.
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#57 Nov 23 2013 at 7:26 AM Rating: Good
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TherealLogros wrote:
I think it's unlikely that people with multiple copies of the same heirloom get anything out of it. The only precedent I can think of is when mounts went accountwide. Owners of more than one copy of the same goldsink-mount weren't reimbursed either.


This is more than just a goldsink though. People are using JP, Crusader Seals, etc. for the heirlooms. That's a much harsher loss. Sure, you can recoup the loss with dailies... but the dailies suck.

I say as I'm currently in ICG doing the dailies.
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#58 Nov 23 2013 at 9:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Relevant:

Holy ****, I miss Wrath. This entire continent is stunning, the music is amazing. Even though they graphically improved the game in MoP and Cata, and even though Pandaria is beautiful... it doesn't have the same sort of richness that Northrend has. Pandaria is playful, Northrend has depth.

Art, music, landscape. Just great.

Worth noting that their story telling was way better in Wrath (compared to Cata - haven't done enough MoP to even pretend I could make that comparison)


The nostalgia is strong with this one.

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#59 Nov 23 2013 at 10:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Agreed.

The harsh environments of Storm Peaks and Icecrown are among my favorite zones in the entire game. And then this quest with the wounded soldier, which sends you around the whole world (even to A'dal) was always a highlight to me. Wrathgate is maybe the best questline in the history of WoW.

Pandaria has some fun questlines, some good questlines and a lot of beautiful landscapes. But nothing that stuck to my memories like some of the moments in Wrath.

Everything above is highly subjective, of course. ;)
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#60 Nov 23 2013 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
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My favorite zones in Northrend are Howling Fjord and Grizzly Hills. The rugged landscape was just amazing.

I do really like Storm Peaks, with its mountains and ancient mechanical nooks and crannies, too.

And the music for the whole expansion was just shockingly spot-on. Each zone was perfect.

Sholazar is a favorite, too.

Edited, Nov 23rd 2013 12:07pm by idiggory
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#61 Nov 23 2013 at 9:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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I agree with all this. I'm just leveling through Northrend again, and on Alliance for the first time. It's my favorite by far. (I also like the Fjord and Grizzly Hills best, if only for the music.) So depressing when I hit 80 to have to go do crummy Cata zones, which IMO was WoW's lowest point. Maybe I'll just do 80-85 via gathering and pet battles instead.
#62 Nov 24 2013 at 9:23 PM Rating: Good
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Cata is... fine. I've said it before, but the problem with Cata is that it's all high notes. It's nothing but huge successes and victories, and occasionally big losses to add contrast.

But that's not what a healthy plot line looks like. Always winning an outstanding victory is really freaking boring, even if you have a few token losses.

There's a reason fantasy writers switch to scenes around the campfires, or give you a narrator laying in bed all through the night. We get big battles, and we get conversations between parents and children. The day gets saved, but the day also gets lived.

Cata forgot that last part. My impressions of MoP, so far, is that it hasn't brought them back anywhere close enough for me to be interested. I'm not too far in, yet, so I'm trying not to judge to harshly. It seems like they've toned down the intensity, which is appreciated. But the problem is that it's still all "COUNTER THE HORDE HERE, COUNTER THE HORDE THERE, THE ORCHARD IS ON FIRE, A PLANE JUST WENT DOWN, THE SHA ARE CONVERGING, WARLOCKS SUMMONED A WAVE OF DEMONS!!!!!!!!"

And it makes me tune out. I just don't give a crap if you don't give me a reason to give a crap. I can't be that stimulated that long and not completely build up a tolerance to it.

As stupid as the "Hey, I could go for a pork pie... bring me some pork and I'll share with you" quests are, they actually DID make the game more whole overall. That individual quest wasn't going to be what anyone remembered compared to Wrathgate, but you sure as **** wouldn't care about Wrathgate nearly as much if you had just had 60 minutes of intense stimulation, either.

I'm hoping it gets better. The village structure gives me hope. But right now, all the village-based plot lines I've seen are "THE SKY IS FALLING IN <insert way>, SAVE US <insert name>."

And it's just not doing it for me.

[EDIT]

Good example - I'm reading The Hunger Games now. I get some really high-energy bits of fights, and then I get a lot of wandering through the woods, trapped in Katniss' head. And it works super well to keep things going, because I never stop caring.

If it was literally just fight after fight after fight, I'd stop caring really quickly.

Edited, Nov 24th 2013 10:28pm by idiggory
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#63 Nov 25 2013 at 3:31 AM Rating: Good
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Give it time.

Especially about the time you get to the Valley of the Four Winds; MOST of the ENTIRE zone is "small time stuff" having to do with helping random Pandas out on their farms with small-time problems. You should love that zone, then.

And then, when you're Lv90, give Sunsong Ranch and the Tillers quests a try; they are a nice addition to WoW's crafting game, even non-cooking professions.

Edited, Nov 25th 2013 4:32am by Lyrailis
#64 Nov 25 2013 at 8:15 AM Rating: Good
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That gives me hope, at least. I'm on the trial, though, so I might not make it too far. I'm off today; we'll see if it keeps my attention.

[EDIT]

Know what would be cool? If they told you that you couldn't level past 85 on the MoP trial.

I have no clue how many quests I've wasted. Hopefully not many...

Edited, Nov 25th 2013 11:08am by idiggory
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#65 Nov 25 2013 at 12:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
That gives me hope, at least. I'm on the trial, though, so I might not make it too far. I'm off today; we'll see if it keeps my attention.

[EDIT]

Know what would be cool? If they told you that you couldn't level past 85 on the MoP trial.

I have no clue how many quests I've wasted. Hopefully not many...

Edited, Nov 25th 2013 11:08am by idiggory


There are.... far more quests than you need to get to Level 90.

I've gotten Level 90 characters by doing Jade Forest, Half of Valley/Krasarang, about half of Kun-lai, all of Townlong and barely touch Dread Wastes.

You're meant to do *either* Krasrang *or* Valley (they both reward 399 gear).

You can do both if you want the whole storyline (both zones come together and wrap up nicely at Stoneplow), but if you do you'll be way over-leveled for Kun-lai (which isn't necessarily a bad thing), but you will have a lot of "Meh I already have equal or better" when you get quest rewards.

So don't worry about running out of quests; you'll be fine. Though it does take 86 to start Valley of the Four Winds. But then getting to 86 even without quests isn't hard; there's two dungeons you can Q up for and there's Pet Battles, they work nicely too (esp with Rested). They tend to throw a LOT of XP at you to get you to 86 quick in Jade Forest, so if you didn't even get half of that zone's achievements you'll easily hit 86 in time.
#66 Nov 25 2013 at 1:00 PM Rating: Good
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How do you get to Krasarang? I just followed a quest line here.
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#67 Nov 25 2013 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
Lyrailis wrote:
Give it time.

Especially about the time you get to the Valley of the Four Winds; MOST of the ENTIRE zone is "small time stuff" having to do with helping random Pandas out on their farms with small-time problems. You should love that zone, then.

And then, when you're Lv90, give Sunsong Ranch and the Tillers quests a try; they are a nice addition to WoW's crafting game, even non-cooking professions.

Edited, Nov 25th 2013 4:32am by Lyrailis

I hated Valley of the Four Winds for that very reason. I agree with Digg that having some random low key quests thrown in with the epic stuff is good for not overwhelming us with the hardcore ****, but having quest after quest be about helping out farmers got boring after a while. I think I did about 25% of the quests in that zone and then moved on.

I'm really liking Dread Wastes though. The Krillax (sp?) line is really interesting.
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#68 Nov 25 2013 at 2:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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idiggory, King of Bards wrote:
How do you get to Krasarang? I just followed a quest line here.


When you get to the Valley of Four Winds (where you meet Chen for the first time) you will be at a fork in the road. Instead of following Chen to the inn go left down the road.

Worth noting though that at the inn there is a really fat pandaren and four eager young students looking for a "hidden master". Pick up the quests for them. The hozen will then go to the first quest hub in Krasarang Wilds and you can merely go to his quest marker on the map.
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#69 Nov 25 2013 at 2:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:

I'm really liking Dread Wastes though. The Krillax (sp?) line is really interesting.


I would work on getting exalted with them. Super awesome spoilers.
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#70 Nov 25 2013 at 3:19 PM Rating: Good
That's what I'm doing. I want that epic ring!
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#71 Nov 26 2013 at 11:35 AM Rating: Good
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idiggory wrote:
Cata is... fine. I've said it before, but the problem with Cata is that it's all high notes. It's nothing but huge successes and victories, and occasionally big losses to add contrast.


I think one of the biggest problems of Cata was how disjointed it is. It starts with the zones being physically disconnected. All the other expansion areas (Outland, Northrend, Pandaria) are connected. You have to travel through them to do stuff or get to places. That's mostly not true with Cata zones. I think this led to a real increase in people sitting in town waiting for a summons (yeah, I know people did that before, too, but it got worse in Cata, in my experience) and just not getting out into the world. It upped the traffic in the capital cities, but at the expense of everywhere else.

It's not just the physical separation, though. It felt like each Cata zone was stand alone and lacked connection to the other zones. I know there's an over-arching story, but it never felt as strong as the thread did in Outland or Northrend before it. It felt more like, okay, let's make an underwater zone...it'll be cool. Okay, let's make an Egypt-themed zone...it'll be cool. Etc. They were each okay in their own right, but lacked connection.

Then there's the return of mechanics that people no longer knew how/wanted to use...

Edited, Nov 26th 2013 10:51am by Azwing
#72 Nov 26 2013 at 12:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Azwing wrote:
idiggory wrote:
Cata is... fine. I've said it before, but the problem with Cata is that it's all high notes. It's nothing but huge successes and victories, and occasionally big losses to add contrast.


I think one of the biggest problems of Cata was how disjointed it is. It starts with the zones being physically disconnected. All the other expansion areas (Outland, Northrend, Pandaria) are connected. You have to travel through them to do stuff or get to places. That's mostly not true with Cata zones. I think this led to a real increase in people sitting in town waiting for a summons (yeah, I know people did that before, too, but it got worse in Cata, in my experience) and just not getting out into the world. It upped the traffic in the capital cities, but at the expense of everywhere else.

It's not just the physical separation, though. It felt like each Cata zone was stand alone and lacked connection to the other zones. I know there's an over-arching story, but it never felt as strong as the thread did in Outland or Northrend before it. It felt more like, okay, let's make an underwater zone...it'll be cool. Okay, let's make an Egypt-themed zone...it'll be cool. Etc. They were each okay in their own right, but lacked connection.

Then there's the return of mechanics that people no longer knew how/wanted to use...

Edited, Nov 26th 2013 10:51am by Azwing

yeah thats the big thing those mechanics. I didnt like any of those dungeons i suppose maybe i should have run them more but i just didnt enjoy them. I love BC and WotLK and even Pandas are decent dungeons.....
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#73 Nov 27 2013 at 12:09 AM Rating: Good
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Rukkuss wrote:
Azwing wrote:
idiggory wrote:
Cata is... fine. I've said it before, but the problem with Cata is that it's all high notes. It's nothing but huge successes and victories, and occasionally big losses to add contrast.


I think one of the biggest problems of Cata was how disjointed it is. It starts with the zones being physically disconnected. All the other expansion areas (Outland, Northrend, Pandaria) are connected. You have to travel through them to do stuff or get to places. That's mostly not true with Cata zones. I think this led to a real increase in people sitting in town waiting for a summons (yeah, I know people did that before, too, but it got worse in Cata, in my experience) and just not getting out into the world. It upped the traffic in the capital cities, but at the expense of everywhere else.

It's not just the physical separation, though. It felt like each Cata zone was stand alone and lacked connection to the other zones. I know there's an over-arching story, but it never felt as strong as the thread did in Outland or Northrend before it. It felt more like, okay, let's make an underwater zone...it'll be cool. Okay, let's make an Egypt-themed zone...it'll be cool. Etc. They were each okay in their own right, but lacked connection.

Then there's the return of mechanics that people no longer knew how/wanted to use...

Edited, Nov 26th 2013 10:51am by Azwing

yeah thats the big thing those mechanics. I didnt like any of those dungeons i suppose maybe i should have run them more but i just didnt enjoy them. I love BC and WotLK and even Pandas are decent dungeons.....


See, I was never a fan of having such small margins of error, especially when you take a RANDOM dungeon finder and dump 5 random people into a dungeon and then expect the whole group to know exactly what to do on each boss.

Bosses like Corla and Ozruk (I think that's his name?) wiped groups again, and again, and again, and again because of how slim the margin of error was. If you failed at the mechanics, just once, there goes a group member. Oh wait, you're down a group member? Then it is going to take longer to kill the boss, more chances for the remaining people to mess up.

And of course, on Ozruk... "what's that, you say? 1.5 seconds to avoid an insta-kill attack? Here, have a lag spike at just the wrong time!"

Oh, and how about the self-healing nerfs?

Even outside of dungeons, I hated how squishy everybody was. I hated only being able to heal myself once every 20, and later 10, seconds on my Ret Paladin (or blow 30% of my mana on one heal that barely healed me for 10-15% of my max health). Druids were even worse, IIRC -- their self-heals did even less though they could cast them for free...... once every 5 combo points.

And then Blizzard thought it was an awesome idea to require everybody to do 85 dailies (6-12 per day depending on the outcome of a PvP area, even on PvE servers) to get an entry-level weapon in what was then one of the worst places to quest in, due to mob density and aforementioned self-heal nerfs. I remember a couple of the Cata patches being ridiculous with how fast mobs respawned and how you couldn't heal yourself for jack when you inevitably got in trouble.

And how about Cata crafting? "Let's make the Cloth nearly impossible to find, but yet make everything take 10-20 bolts of it.. everything should require mountains of elements that only Alchemists can make, everything worth making as a blacksmith out to be made out of something that takes 2 daily cooldowns to create unless you find a rare *** ore, and gathering leather should be akin to pulling your teeth out... oh and let's throw in some recipes that take 60 dragonscales or 60 deepsea scales, because this expansion wasn't painful enough, we gotta make it **** on the crafters too..."

Yeah, good riddance to Cataclysm. Easily the worst expansion of WoW to date.

Sorry 'bout the ranting there, but some of my most unfun days of WoW were had during Cataclysm. I'm glad they wised up and turned things around, and made MoP so awesome in comparison.
#74 Nov 27 2013 at 7:47 AM Rating: Good
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I don't think I've ever seen anyone with an opinion other than "Cata was easily the worst expansion, no contest."

I mean... it was awful. The leveling experience was... fine... the first time through. But I was bored by the time I hit Outland, and I'm the type of the player who IS playing for the story and such.

The plot was in shambles. The war was so freaking forced. Garrosh as a character is so freaking forced. So much of the interracial conflicts are directly based on both of those two, which leaves them equally forced. I mean, it's all essentially them finally saying "Dude... wtf?"

But, to be fair, WoW has never done a good job at connecting its plot threads. The whole Titans thing is just kinda hanging there, and realistically has been since Ulduar, despite the Cata zone (I mean, wtf is with the Tolvir?). The Burning Legion seems to have disappeared from everyone's minds. People are apparently just fine leaving a massive horde of undead up in Northrend, because they think the Lich King is dead. What? They just ASSUME no one else could organize them?

I could keep going, but no one wants that.
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#75 Nov 27 2013 at 9:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Cata's main problem for me was that it was so freaking boring. There was nothing fresh or new about my experience at all. They redid all the low level zones but that was a cosmetic change - gathering 10 gizmos that look a little different from the last gizmos is still gathering 10 gizmos. The new zones were bland at best. Nothing about the dungeons felt interesting. I didn't raid much but what little I did do, again, just didn't grab me. Tol Barad was a worse version of Wintergrasp, the new battlegrounds were mostly annoying.

It was just more of the same, except with a much less interesting story and villain than we had in Northrend/Arthas, and after a lot of years of WoW, that just couldn't hold my attention.

Pandaria's new features may be mostly lightweight and a little silly - farming, pet battles - but they're actually new. Also I kind of like lightweight and silly. I don't care for the kind of gaming that feels like a job where I have to log in and do dailies/get upgrades/whatever or get left behind. Pandaria came along at a time when even as a casual gamer I was looking for an even more casual experience. I haven't set foot in a raid since I came back and I've still found plenty to keep me occupied (although I play a lot less than I once did).
#76 Nov 28 2013 at 12:22 AM Rating: Good
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teacake wrote:
Cata's main problem for me was that it was so freaking boring. There was nothing fresh or new about my experience at all. They redid all the low level zones but that was a cosmetic change - gathering 10 gizmos that look a little different from the last gizmos is still gathering 10 gizmos. The new zones were bland at best. Nothing about the dungeons felt interesting. I didn't raid much but what little I did do, again, just didn't grab me. Tol Barad was a worse version of Wintergrasp, the new battlegrounds were mostly annoying.


I hated how your PvE experience (up until Firelands) relied solely upon Tol Barad (because, yanno, ALL of the endgame dailies were in Tol Barad and Tol Barad alone, 'cept for Therazane) and how good your side/server was at holding it.

For me, Moon Guard: Alliance sucked at holding TB whatsoever. So yay, every day only 6 quests available. Took stinking forever to get the 85 seals for a weapon. Nothing was more boring than that grind to get my first dungeon-level weapon, hacking away with a stupid green PoS because after the first few days, nobody did Crucible of Carnage whatsoever.

Quote:
It was just more of the same, except with a much less interesting story and villain than we had in Northrend/Arthas, and after a lot of years of WoW, that just couldn't hold my attention.


I didn't mind the zones/quests, I just hated the lack-luster equipment gearing options, and how it was impossible to improve my characters past 333 junk. Even with full 333 which was supposedly "Heroic Dungeon Ready", my characters still felt ridiculously weak and squishy.

Oh, and Cataclysm was also the most horrible time for Ret Paladins -- juggling the new holy power system + art of war + divine purpose + Inquisition + zealotry + wings + GotAK sucked balls. We went from 969 to juggling all of this RNG crap and our heals didn't heal for jack. Since my main was a ret paladin, I *hated* them for these stupid changes.

Thank God they had the sense to change that in Mists. Divine Purpose is now a choice (that I took becuase I like it more than the other 2 options) and they got rid of Zealotry altogether and now in 5.4, Inquisition lasts twice as long and can be refreshed with killing blows.

Quote:
Pandaria's new features may be mostly lightweight and a little silly - farming, pet battles - but they're actually new. Also I kind of like lightweight and silly. I don't care for the kind of gaming that feels like a job where I have to log in and do dailies/get upgrades/whatever or get left behind. Pandaria came along at a time when even as a casual gamer I was looking for an even more casual experience. I haven't set foot in a raid since I came back and I've still found plenty to keep me occupied (although I play a lot less than I once did).


I've yet to do a non-LFR raid myself. I don't have time for a raiding guild, I work variable hours and most guilds don't like a "weekend warrior". I'm sorry, I can't be online at set days. That's why I'm not touching Normal, Heroic, Mythic or whatever the **** you wanna call them raids.

What I don't really like the idea of, is it sounds like they're trying to get rid of LFR, or make it not even worthwhile to do. As it is, I've been hearing lots of bad things about LFR SoO about how hard it is to find groups for and actually complete it, meanwhile lots of people are doing Flex......but people gear-check you in Flex probably. *sigh* I don't want people kicking me out because I don't see the point in re-doing all reforges from scratch every time I get a piece of gear.


Edited, Nov 28th 2013 1:22am by Lyrailis
#77 Nov 28 2013 at 12:23 AM Rating: Good
I think I must be the only person on this board who actually enjoyed Cata. I played through a good portion of Vanilla, all of Wrath and most of Cata, and I enjoyed it the most. I totally will admit that the lore was best in Wrath though.
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#78 Nov 28 2013 at 12:27 AM Rating: Good
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
I think I must be the only person on this board who actually enjoyed Cata. I played through a good portion of Vanilla, all of Wrath and most of Cata, and I enjoyed it the most. I totally will admit that the lore was best in Wrath though.


I suppose if one was a hardcore and have a raiding guild, one would probably like Cataclysm more than someone who did not have a raiding guild.

LFD sucked; wipe wipe wipe wipe wipe wipe wipe wipe because very few people could handle the almost zero margin of error dungeons they released and didn't nerf until much later.

There was no LFR until Dragon Soul and LFR Dragon Soul sucked; trying to win anything ridiculously hard and half of the groups wound up wiping anyways. I did it once for a Deathwing Kill achievement and that was that. Never touched it again.

Now if one had a raiding guild.... Heroics might have actually been fun with competent people, Raids might have actually been accessible, etc.
#79 Nov 28 2013 at 4:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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PigtailsOfDoom wrote:
I think I must be the only person on this board who actually enjoyed Cata. I played through a good portion of Vanilla, all of Wrath and most of Cata, and I enjoyed it the most. I totally will admit that the lore was best in Wrath though.


I liked most of it. I still think it's the weakest expansion so far, but I had a good time playing it.
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