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#27 Oct 01 2012 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
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Borsuk wrote:
Frankly - leveling isn't very fun.

I don't disagree with your statement that people shouldn't race through content, but then again... Do people really enjoy non-level cap content?

Do people look back and think how fun it was to kill 30 birds in Nagard, or collect broken wood in HFP, or search for stolen rations in SP, etc. It's almost never challenging. Usually it's repetitive. And much of the time is spent running/traveling between locations.

I don't know - maybe i'm just getting bored of it.



This is kinda how I feel. There is nothing wrong with the content but I am very bored with questing, and this is coming from someone who hasn't played for almost a year. With the new talent system I think leveling is even more boring. At least before you had a new talent point or ability to look forward to each level. Without doing the math I figure with cata and MOP to reach the 5 lvl cap it takes the same time as it took from 70 to 80). This makes it even more monotonous to grind a lvl.

I feel like a lot of time is spent running around since we can't fly (again). The design of the new zones (at least Jade Forest) it can be quite a pain to get around. Seems like every time I try to find a quest objective there is a huge steep hill in my way and I end up running all around it trying to get where I need to go.

I know there was a time we didn't have flying mounts but once you get used to the fastest flying in the game then have it taken away from you it sucks. I didn't mind it so much with WOTLK but most of those zones where pretty simple to get around in.

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#28 Oct 01 2012 at 2:30 PM Rating: Good
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someproteinguy wrote:
There's no danger left in the world. Not that it was ever horrendously difficult. But when normal people can reach the level cap without dying, there's a check-or-balance missing somewhere. Don't mind long grinds, loved some of the story lines, fun leveling different characters, building professions, or whatever. But darn it can't you have a couple of baddies that are tough to beat? Smiley: rolleyes
I hear ya. Not counting the times I spent with the friends who really made this game fun for me, my fondest memories are of solo killing things that were difficult after seeing videos of others doing it. ****, even the ogres outside Dire Maul could be fun to farm, if only because I loved the tells I'd get when groups would pass by me on their way to the instances.

#29 Oct 01 2012 at 2:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Raced to 90, as I dinged thursday. I've done a mountain of HCs to the point where I am almost BiS in heroics. BUT there's still sooooo much left to do even without setting foot in a raid it's ridiculous. There's like a hundred dailies out there, some are pure fun, others serve the purpose of fattening your purse and giving rep. And of course there's challenge modes.

So:

A mountain of dailies
Challenge instances
Lots of pets and mounts
Pokemon
Glory of the Hero
Raids starting wednesday.

Pending raids, so far in terms of content this is the best expansion for me. If you're bored, you should start playing other games or, dunno, Read a book? Write a book?
#30 Oct 01 2012 at 2:42 PM Rating: Good
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fronglo wrote:
Borsuk wrote:
Frankly - leveling isn't very fun.

I don't disagree with your statement that people shouldn't race through content, but then again... Do people really enjoy non-level cap content?

Do people look back and think how fun it was to kill 30 birds in Nagard, or collect broken wood in HFP, or search for stolen rations in SP, etc. It's almost never challenging. Usually it's repetitive. And much of the time is spent running/traveling between locations.

I don't know - maybe i'm just getting bored of it.



This is kinda how I feel. There is nothing wrong with the content but I am very bored with questing, and this is coming from someone who hasn't played for almost a year. With the new talent system I think leveling is even more boring. At least before you had a new talent point or ability to look forward to each level. Without doing the math I figure with cata and MOP to reach the 5 lvl cap it takes the same time as it took from 70 to 80). This makes it even more monotonous to grind a lvl.

I feel like a lot of time is spent running around since we can't fly (again). The design of the new zones (at least Jade Forest) it can be quite a pain to get around. Seems like every time I try to find a quest objective there is a huge steep hill in my way and I end up running all around it trying to get where I need to go.

I know there was a time we didn't have flying mounts but once you get used to the fastest flying in the game then have it taken away from you it sucks. I didn't mind it so much with WOTLK but most of those zones where pretty simple to get around in.

I've been ****** every time I have to level without flying. It's not like with flying you're doing any less grinding, you're just not getting places as fast, which is irritating.

****, I'm a rogue, I stealth through most everything anyway, why is it a big deal if I can fly to a place, drop in stealthed, and start killing as opposed to walking in stealthed and start killing?
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#31 Oct 01 2012 at 3:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Not trying to start a Flame war, and I was a bit tired when i wrote that this morning so I'll admit it came out a bit wrong but,

Mazra wrote:

Note that Borsuk didn't claim that there was nothing to do (since he's not level 90 yet). He was paraphrasing a guild member. Also...


You're right he isn't 90 yet and he was paraphrasing, but from the way he was posting he thinks there isn't anything to do. I might be jumping the gun a bit, he might come back and say he got 90 he's overwhelmed and his guildy was nuts. I do apologize if I did.

Mazra wrote:

Again, he wasn't. He was referring to the extremely slow pace with which Blizzard released new content in Cataclysm and predicting a repeat of the misery that was grinding two to three heroics for a year at a time.


The thing that bothers me is that he stated it like it's already over, yes Blizzard is slower at releasing content, but to say it's over when it has barely started bothers me.

Mazra wrote:

Different strokes for different folks. Some people enjoy cooking, pet battles, farming and grinding dailies for gold and reputation. Some people don't. Some people used to enjoy it, but after eight years stuff loses its appeal.


I can understand this, not all content is for everyone,but what stroke was he expecting, this was WoW and should have known what kinds of gameplay to expect, with some changes here and there. As I said a month ago, I was considering skipping this expansion, and I do understand WoW losing its appeal but why would someone get something expecting something COMPLETELY different. I knew it was WoW at its core, and heard it was more like Wrath playstyle, and less like Cata, which got me coming back.

Mazra wrote:

Sounds to me like he's burned out on WoW, which is nothing to be ashamed of. Eight years is a long time and the game does get repetitive in the long run, no matter how much sparkly dust Blizzard throws at it. That doesn't mean he's burned out on MMOs in general, though. It just means he's ready to move on to another game.


Being burned out on WoW is nothing to be ashamed of no, I've been there, **** we've all been there one time or another. I unsubbed in March (but hadnt played since Jan, sillyyear contract thing for free Diablo3, luckily my bank card expired and i forgot to update it). Yes It does get repetetive, but In the last 2 months I've played 3 MMOs: WoW, FFXI, and GW2, each has a different 'endgame' but and different playstyles but they are essentially the same, WoW Get to cap raid for gear. FFXI get to cap NM Hunt for gear, GW2 get to cap PVP for gear. There's a saying that the real game doesn't start til cap, and its basically the same for all MMOs. They are like different brands of cars each has different gas mileage, some have better paint jobs, and a few have better features, but in the end they all serve the same purpose.
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#32 Oct 01 2012 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
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BeanX wrote:
There's a saying that the real game doesn't start til cap, and its basically the same for all MMOs.


This is true, and I imagine we'll be seeing some next generation MMORPGs where the focus is on end-game right off the bat.

The Secret World sorta did something along those lines, as has EVE Online done to some extent over the last many years. There are no levels and no leveling process, instead there is accumulating better gear, more wealth and more skill points so you can use the better stuff and unlock more stats or abilities. DC Universe Online did something in between where the level cap is 30 and reachable in less than one week for even the most casual player, but then the real grind starts for skill points spent on unlocking powers and attribute points. Star Wars Galaxies had another system where using an item (such as weapons, "bandages" and grenades) and using certain abilities (such as prospecting) would increase your skill with that item or ability and move you up a skill tree containing that item or ability mastery.

The classic leveling process was an interesting one, but considering how little time the average player spends leveling compared to at end-game, I think future MMOs will have more of a focus on playing the game's content rather than grinding to level cap where, as you said, the real game starts. Right now, you burn through the "leveling zones" until you reach the "end-game zones" - the zones for the current expansion. There you grind faction rep and do dailies until a new expansion is launched, assuming you don't just fly to a city and queue up for dungeons. It's a very linear process which renders a bunch of zones useless, or irrelevant, to the majority of the player base after a certain amount of time (majority reaches cap).

If they removed the levels and had people start with all spells and whatnot right at the beginning, they could focus on stuffing all those many zones with "end-game content" instead of "leveling content" that just sits there. They could remove levels from mobs as well and give them degrees of difficulty, such as "weak" for newbie mobs and "boss" for boss mobs, etc. This would allow brand new players to jump into the fray without first having to spend a month or two grinding to level cap. Sure, there's still be a kind of grind, since you need progression in a game to keep it interesting, but it would open up for so many ways to do the progression instead of limiting it to five new zones on a new continent every expansion.

They could make Dire Maul, Zul'Farrak and all those other "lowbie" dungeons, that people run once or twice and never set foot in again, regularly visited dungeons by simply removing levels. They have that fancy item level thing for no apparent reason, so why not use it to automatically scale the dungeons based on the group's average item level? Say a group of average ilvl 300 players join a dungeon run in Wailing Caverns. The game auto-adjusts the stats of the mobs in the dungeon to present a challenge for that gear level and adjusts the loot tables to drop ilvl 333 gear, or whatever the next "tier" would be.

Voila, leveling grind removed without removing progression. And now you get to choose between 20+ dungeons and zones to gear up in instead of 2-3.

Edited, Oct 1st 2012 11:49pm by Mazra
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#33 Oct 01 2012 at 3:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Borsuk wrote:
Perhaps it's just that this the 4th time (I started w/ TBC), but the only difference right now seems to be that the names and icons have changed.


I've played since September 2006 (so a couple months before TBC), but naturally people are going to like and dislike different things. I think the biggest difference with myself this time around is that I am not focused on progression raiding at this time. I've been raiding progression since Black Temple, so in Wrath and Cataclysm I did rush through content. My guild lost most of its members during the summer and we decided not to rebuild our raiding team, so I'm looking forward to exploring every bit of new content and as a few people listed above, there is a ton of it. And I know you were quoting guildies and they might not be interested in all that extra stuff, but I think people should at least check everything out before writing it off as the same old thing. I personally feel that Blizzard did an excellent job adding a variety of different things that you can do.
#34 Oct 01 2012 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
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Tellaria wrote:
I think people should at least check everything out before writing it off as the same old thing.


That's what patch notes and betas are for. Smiley: tongue
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#35 Oct 01 2012 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Hey Theo, I discovered the pattern for the +160 agi gem yesterday. So if you haven't discovered it yet I can cut them for you.

I was happy I also discovered the +160 str cut, until I realized that gemming is completely different for DW and 2h.
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#36 Oct 01 2012 at 4:16 PM Rating: Good
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Mazra wrote:
Lots of Interesting stuff, go read it.


I completely agree and that's an interesting idea. Its very similar to how GW2 does work, ish. You can be lvl 1 and do 'endgame' It maxes your lvl gives you all the skills and basic decent gear, in WvW. Now from what I can tell , if you lvl your character you would go in with your own custom gear maybe a bit more experience with how your abilities work.

My best analogy how Normal MMOs work is they are like Life, for the first 18 years you really dont get choices, some basic ones, leveling is a lot like this.. You have dungeons as extracurricular they give you a boost get you a bit ahead of the game at the current point but in the end they arent vital. At cap (or 18) you have to start making the real choices, get a job(Raid), get more schooling (Heroics), raise a family (Alts), and the daily grind (dailies XD), Now you can even have pets (and kill things with said pets). orrrr I'm reading into this way too much (probably). And each new expansion is a new step in your life where your getting accustomed to how new things work.

But anyway If i delve into that analogy more i would need to move this post to a different forum.

Right now I'm liking where everything is. I have WoW it's at a good place and if content dries up for a while I can fall back on the subless GW2 (Which you should all buy cause its awesome. I think Mazra is already there haven't logged on this week.) I know I'm two timing MMO's but damned if they don't cure my itches in different ways.


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#37 Oct 01 2012 at 5:44 PM Rating: Good
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@Mazra: That sounds really nice but most likely even then zones would become irrelevant when the first expansion of this hypothetical MMO comes out. Since you have to have some kind of progression it seems logical that this expansion would bring better gear, maybe unlocks new/improved skills etc. Thus the new zones would have to have stronger enemies so there is still some kind of a challenge for the player.
Granted there would still be way more zones on any of this "progression-levels" (one being the vanilla zones, one the new expansion zones) than we have now on any given level. But it would not completely remove this problem.
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#38 Oct 01 2012 at 8:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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"If you would have asked me a month ago if I was excited for MoP I would have considered not resubbing, I was VERY skeptical. I am pleased with this expansion so far."

That's how I feel. I'm not going to do Farmville or Pokemon, but I like the new zones and the new quests. There seem to be more oddball "help the farmer grow some onions" quests and fewer "kill 30 goats and bring me their eyeballs" quests. I like the way the zones look, too, as in pretty. A lot of BC was just plain ugly.

So far I think I might like this one better than BC, WoLK, or Cata, but it's still pretty early in the expansion.
#39 Oct 02 2012 at 12:15 AM Rating: Default
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Hey Theo, I discovered the pattern for the +160 agi gem yesterday. So if you haven't discovered it yet I can cut them for you.

I was happy I also discovered the +160 str cut, until I realized that gemming is completely different for DW and 2h.

Sweet, I'll definitely need that. I'm hoping I'll find it by the time I hit 90 since it seems like I've found literally every other meta cut in the game. Smiley: facepalm
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#40 Oct 02 2012 at 2:01 AM Rating: Good
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TherealLogros wrote:
@Mazra: That sounds really nice but most likely even then zones would become irrelevant when the first expansion of this hypothetical MMO comes out. Since you have to have some kind of progression it seems logical that this expansion would bring better gear, maybe unlocks new/improved skills etc. Thus the new zones would have to have stronger enemies so there is still some kind of a challenge for the player.
Granted there would still be way more zones on any of this "progression-levels" (one being the vanilla zones, one the new expansion zones) than we have now on any given level. But it would not completely remove this problem.


The only reason expansions release new zones is because of the leveling process. If we didn't have to reach a new level cap every expansion, there'd be no reason for new zones. They could simply update the loot tables in the existing zones and spend time and resources on making new events and whatnot in the existing zones. Prior to Wrath and Cataclysm release, certain events have been added to the old zones. The ghoul invasion and the rampant elementals were all excellent events, but once the new zones open up, you leave the old zones where these events are taking place. Imagine instead that you stayed in those zones where the events are happening. The expansion features: new gear, new talents, new classes, new races and new events. Sort of like the holiday events, except more... permanent. And longer lasting.

The entire idea that an expansion should feature new zones and that new stuff should only be available in those new zones is linear thinking. If WoW was treated like a giant sandbox, they could just release new stuff in the old zones, or make new zones and still release the new stuff in all the zones (world bosses, go!). Instead of creating new areas of shiny, they could release the shiny to the entire sandbox and watch players mess around with it. I think that would make for a much more interesting game.

People would still be able to do what they like most, such as farming, or grinding dailies, or grinding dungeons. The only difference is that there'd be more options and a bigger area available to the player base.

Now you're thinking with portals. Smiley: grin
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#41 Oct 02 2012 at 6:02 AM Rating: Default
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Overlord Theophany wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Hey Theo, I discovered the pattern for the +160 agi gem yesterday. So if you haven't discovered it yet I can cut them for you.

I was happy I also discovered the +160 str cut, until I realized that gemming is completely different for DW and 2h.

Sweet, I'll definitely need that. I'm hoping I'll find it by the time I hit 90 since it seems like I've found literally every other meta cut in the game. Smiley: facepalm


No, I mean the +160 red gem cut. I also have the Agi/Crit modifier meta cut,, but I forgot about that til you mentioned it.
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#42 Oct 02 2012 at 11:28 AM Rating: Default
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Hey Theo, I discovered the pattern for the +160 agi gem yesterday. So if you haven't discovered it yet I can cut them for you.

I was happy I also discovered the +160 str cut, until I realized that gemming is completely different for DW and 2h.

Sweet, I'll definitely need that. I'm hoping I'll find it by the time I hit 90 since it seems like I've found literally every other meta cut in the game. Smiley: facepalm


No, I mean the +160 red gem cut. I also have the Agi/Crit modifier meta cut,, but I forgot about that til you mentioned it.

Oh, I get you. Thanks.
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#43 Oct 03 2012 at 8:01 AM Rating: Good
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I ordered the 2 last expansions online with a few mouseclicks. That seems a lot less of a hassle than picking up a copy. Also you can download them as many times as you want after you bought them and registered them. I find it odd that Blizzard charge crazy high prices for their games online. I got my Starcraft 2 copy for 15 euros less in a retailer store than buy it digitally. I'm not sure how many teenagers there are out there, but it seems much less than a few million which is needed to top the Cata box sales. The average age for gamers is like 30+ or something.
#44 Oct 03 2012 at 10:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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There's more than enough in MoP to do. If you're complaining that all you do is sit around [insert city] with nothing to do then log out. If you're logged into WoW doing nothing then I presume you don't have much of anything to do offline either, and then I'm just going to presume it's you.

Find your own things to do online or off. There's plenty.
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#45 Oct 03 2012 at 10:51 AM Rating: Good
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ACLinjury wrote:
There's more than enough in MoP to do. If you're complaining that all you do is sit around [insert city] with nothing to do then log out. If you're logged into WoW doing nothing then I presume you don't have much of anything to do offline either, and then I'm just going to presume it's you.

Find your own things to do online or off. There's plenty.


I think you misunderstand. People don't sit around in cities and do nothing because they don't want to do anything in the game. Usually people sit around and wait for the queues to pop. There's just nothing interesting to do while you wait for the queues to pop. And this is where you shouldn't presume things, because we all have different tastes. Some people enjoy doing dailies while they wait for the queues, others don't.

Also...

ACLinjury wrote:
If you're logged into WoW doing nothing then I presume you don't have much of anything to do offline either


Stupid presumption. I have plenty of things to do in real life, but that doesn't make grinding dailies @#%^ing interesting. Seriously, stop it.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2012 6:54pm by Mazra
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#46 Oct 03 2012 at 11:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
ACLinjury wrote:
There's more than enough in MoP to do. If you're complaining that all you do is sit around [insert city] with nothing to do then log out. If you're logged into WoW doing nothing then I presume you don't have much of anything to do offline either, and then I'm just going to presume it's you.

Find your own things to do online or off. There's plenty.


I think you misunderstand. People don't sit around in cities and do nothing because they don't want to do anything in the game. Usually people sit around and wait for the queues to pop. There's just nothing interesting to do while you wait for the queues to pop. And this is where you shouldn't presume things, because we all have different tastes. Some people enjoy doing dailies while they wait for the queues, others don't.

Also...

ACLinjury wrote:
If you're logged into WoW doing nothing then I presume you don't have much of anything to do offline either


Stupid presumption. I have plenty of things to do in real life, but that doesn't make grinding dailies @#%^ing interesting. Seriously, stop it.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2012 6:54pm by Mazra



I'm sorry, perhaps it didn't come out right. I just sigh and roll my eyes sometimes when people say "there's nothing to do." And I didn't mean to over generalize or be overly presumptuous. Sometimes I feel that when people are bored they look for others to entertain them instead of entertaining themselves. I don't want to rant about this though. I will admit I was wrong and said it wrong.

Anyways, I don't think it should be a grind. It's a game, you should enjoy it. I understand that some people wait for que's to pop, I've done it too. However, while waiting, I did fishing, or the loremaster, or archeology, just something. If WoW is a hobby then you shouldn't dread doing it.

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#47 Oct 03 2012 at 11:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
There's just nothing interesting to do while you wait for the queues to pop.


It's Miller Time. Smiley: boozing
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#48 Oct 03 2012 at 11:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
ACLinjury wrote:
There's more than enough in MoP to do. If you're complaining that all you do is sit around [insert city] with nothing to do then log out. If you're logged into WoW doing nothing then I presume you don't have much of anything to do offline either, and then I'm just going to presume it's you.

Find your own things to do online or off. There's plenty.


I think you misunderstand. People don't sit around in cities and do nothing because they don't want to do anything in the game. Usually people sit around and wait for the queues to pop. There's just nothing interesting to do while you wait for the queues to pop. And this is where you shouldn't presume things, because we all have different tastes. Some people enjoy doing dailies while they wait for the queues, others don't.


Then IMO people shouldn't complain that there's nothing to do. They should complain that they don't like the enjoyable content Blizzard provided. Of course, even if you added content specifically to their tastes, people would still find something to complain about. That's the nature of the beast.

As it stands, Blizzard added a LOT of content with this expansion, more than in any previous expansion. If you can't find something out of all that content that you like to do, then the problem is with you, not the game.
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#49 Oct 03 2012 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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ACLinjury wrote:
I'm sorry, perhaps it didn't come out right.


Don't worry about it. I'm drunk and I've been browsing YouTube all day, so I immediately took the part about having nothing to do offline as an insult. Smiley: lol

Bigdaddyjug wrote:
If you can't find something out of all that content that you like to do, then the problem is with you, not the game.


Technically, the problem is with both the game and the player (game can't live up to player's expectations, player's expectations are too high), but I know what you mean and I somewhat agree. If a game is only 10% enjoyable and 90% boring, it's probably time to reconsider paying $15 a month for it - especially when you can play a lot of other games for free.

Like ACL said:

ACLinjury wrote:
Anyways, I don't think it should be a grind. It's a game, you should enjoy it.


I know that I don't enjoy grinding and I'm not into pet battles, farming, pandas and the Monk class, so I decided not to renew my subscription after checking out the talent revamp. I don't want Blizzard to add more stuff, I acknowledge that I am burned out on a game that I have been playing pretty hardcore for almost ten years. As it turns out, I'm human after all.
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#50 Oct 03 2012 at 12:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Mazra wrote:
ACLinjury wrote:
There's more than enough in MoP to do. If you're complaining that all you do is sit around [insert city] with nothing to do then log out. If you're logged into WoW doing nothing then I presume you don't have much of anything to do offline either, and then I'm just going to presume it's you.

Find your own things to do online or off. There's plenty.


I think you misunderstand. People don't sit around in cities and do nothing because they don't want to do anything in the game. Usually people sit around and wait for the queues to pop. There's just nothing interesting to do while you wait for the queues to pop. And this is where you shouldn't presume things, because we all have different tastes. Some people enjoy doing dailies while they wait for the queues, others don't.


Then IMO people shouldn't complain that there's nothing to do. They should complain that they don't like the enjoyable content Blizzard provided. Of course, even if you added content specifically to their tastes, people would still find something to complain about. That's the nature of the beast.

As it stands, Blizzard added a LOT of content with this expansion, more than in any previous expansion. If you can't find something out of all that content that you like to do, then the problem is with you, not the game.

I don't think as much was added as in the TBC expansion, but otherwise I'd agree with that statement.
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#51 Oct 03 2012 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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In TBC, each faction got a new race and a new class. TBC also added a new profession, jewelcrafting. Other than that, TBC didn't add much content that wasn't the end-game grind. The IoQD came in a later patch.

In MoP, each faction got a new race and a new class. MoP also added a new profession, farming. MoP also added battle pets and made sweeping changes to the way cooking works. And this was only in the expansion release. Who knows how much more content there is to come in the 3 or 4 content patches that will follow.

All of WoW's expansions have added a lot of new stuff to see and do. I just think MoP has the most breadth and depth to the new stuff. A lot of people won't do anything with battle pets, but for the people who like it, how many different pets are there you can obtain and level to max level? How many different dailies are there you can do? This isn't like TBC or Wrath, or Cata where there was 1 or 2 places to do dailies. MoP will have 6 or 7 different factions each with different daily quests to do. Blizzard also added 2 new Battlegrounds to the roster. No other expansion had more than 1. Granted, there's no new world PVP zone like in Wrath or Cata, but the expansion is young. This is an expansion that was supposed to bring the focus back to the war between the Horde and Alliance, so you can bet Blizzard has something planned in the PVP department.

Anyway, I don't want to sound like I'm ranting against any 1 person's opinion. I'll just say that the changes in MoP brought me back to the game after my longes break since I started playing early in 2005. I'm extremely happy with the game and I'm actually upset at how much there is to do because I don't think I'll ever get to do all of it. If it's not your cup of tea, I understand that. But you really won't know until you try, now will you?
____________________________
Sir Xsarus wrote:
That's pretty much the best ninja edit ever.


World of Warcraft
Aggramar Alliance
Allizsah: 92 Human Paladin
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