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5.0.4 Shaman/Druid/PaladinFollow

#27 Sep 06 2012 at 3:58 PM Rating: Good
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The RNG is one of the problems. Our survivability hinges on random number generation. Might as well throw a couple of dice and hope we don't get snake eyes. Another problem is that our active mitigation is proactive. Some developer at Blizzard imagined we'd have the situational awareness to hit that 60% resource ability just before the boss does a massive hit. I'm sure some hero out there does, but the rest of us will have to keep it up so we don't lose at staying alive.

I'm pretty sure Vengeance does influence your heals, though. My Frenzied Regeneration heals for 23k while I'm fighting a training dummy, but Recount logged an 80k hit when I was fighting that dragon dude in one of the Hour of Twilight heroics, which would explain why I was getting different hits on my Paladin and Druid (tested my Druid on a dummy and Paladin in a heroic). It also seems to scale with your health. I equipped a stamina trinket and gained ~2k on my Frenzied Regeneration tooltip.

The way they're handling modifiers now is a complete mess. Would make sense if there was a passive somewhere that explained it, but can't find any passives that explain why I only gain 400 mana when I equip all intellect gear on my Guardian. I take it intellect no longer increases your mana pool when you're Feral/Guardian, but I can't find anything in-game that mentions it.
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#28 Sep 06 2012 at 6:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
The RNG is one of the problems. Our survivability hinges on random number generation. Might as well throw a couple of dice and hope we don't get snake eyes. Another problem is that our active mitigation is proactive. Some developer at Blizzard imagined we'd have the situational awareness to hit that 60% resource ability just before the boss does a massive hit. I'm sure some hero out there does, but the rest of us will have to keep it up so we don't lose at staying alive.

I'm pretty sure Vengeance does influence your heals, though. My Frenzied Regeneration heals for 23k while I'm fighting a training dummy, but Recount logged an 80k hit when I was fighting that dragon dude in one of the Hour of Twilight heroics, which would explain why I was getting different hits on my Paladin and Druid (tested my Druid on a dummy and Paladin in a heroic). It also seems to scale with your health. I equipped a stamina trinket and gained ~2k on my Frenzied Regeneration tooltip.

The way they're handling modifiers now is a complete mess. Would make sense if there was a passive somewhere that explained it, but can't find any passives that explain why I only gain 400 mana when I equip all intellect gear on my Guardian. I take it intellect no longer increases your mana pool when you're Feral/Guardian, but I can't find anything in-game that mentions it.

Druids aren't the only one with proactive mitigation. Pallys has an attack built in, but Righteous Shield is still a proactive 30% damage redux. Warrior's Shield Block causes a guaranteed block for the next couple hits. Monks and Blood DKs is reactive.

What I meant about Vengeance is that a high stack of +AP wouldn't benefit druids over paladins, or vice versa. In theory, the heals should be about even at equal gear levels in equal circumstances. And yea, there's an alternate 2.5x stamina modifier in Frenzied Regen, for when/if your AP is really low.

Intellect no longer affects anyone's mana pool. It's a big part of why I think regen right now is buffed ridiculously. Better to make healers OP for a few weeks than to leave the people that used Int as a regen stat instead of spirit SOL.
#29 Sep 06 2012 at 7:04 PM Rating: Good
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Wish my Maul reduced damage taken by 30% (before Mastery score), even if it's only for 3 seconds. Smiley: frown

But yeah, you're right, Warriors and Paladins also have proactive mitigation. Regardless of the class, I don't think proactive mitigation is the right way to do this "active mitigation" thing. I wouldn't mind it if they made us choose between Savage Defense and Frenzied Regeneration (proactive vs reactive), but right now, due to the massive damage bosses push out, proactive wins out.

Reserving over half my resource pool for a buff on a 6-second cooldown that needs to be pressed whenever I'm about to take massive damage (in 5-mans, you spam it and hope you don't get spiked) is pretty boring gameplay. And even with the buff up, it's still up to RNG whether or not we get hit. If we do get hit then the damage isn't mitigated in any way, except from our armor, resulting in some fairly massive spikes since even with the buff up, you're only dodging about half the hits. If you dodge two in a row then balance dictates that you will eventually get hit twice in a row as well.

Maybe if one of the Druid talents would give us a chance to sometimes refund the Rage spent on Frenzied Regeneration and Savage Defense, or allowed us to use either of those abilities again with no Rage cost. Like the Paladin talent Divine Purpose does. I just want something more than pressing a button every ~6 seconds and hoping RNG will go easy on me.

Edit: And before someone tells me RNG is balanced: click this (image).

Edited, Sep 7th 2012 3:10am by Mazra
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#30 Sep 07 2012 at 6:40 AM Rating: Decent
Mazra wrote:
Edit: And before someone tells me RNG is balanced: click this (image)

Mazra, this is from a couple years ago, but I have to agree: RNG strikes
#31 Sep 07 2012 at 3:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Azaza wrote:
Mazra wrote:
Edit: And before someone tells me RNG is balanced: click this (image)

Mazra, this is from a couple years ago, but I have to agree: RNG strikes

A 1 in a million chance pops up, about 1 time in a million (given a large enough sample size). Considering that 5 million+ people play WoW every week, things like this probably occur dozens of times a week.

I think active mitigation will work better if the bosses in MoP have some way of indicating when they are about to use a powerful melee hit. Of course, pallys will probably still use SotR rotationally for threat and the WoG buff. Warriors get a guaranteed block with the chance for it to crit. Bears get to dodge ~2/3rds of attacks that would have otherwise hit (assuming around 30% dodge before hitting SD).

Edited, Sep 7th 2012 5:50pm by AstarintheDruid
#32 Sep 07 2012 at 4:07 PM Rating: Good
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Doesn't matter if the bosses have audio-visual cues in MoP. In the end, whether you take the damage or not becomes a matter of chance, which is not cool. Avoidance shouldn't be a part of active mitigation because it doesn't mitigate each hit, it mitigates total damage taken over the course of a fight, which can be a relatively short fight if RNG decides to let the tank get hit three times in a row while the healer is preoccupied.

The entire reason they removed the old Savage Defense (50% chance on crit to create absorption shield) was because 50% chance to get the shield wasn't in line with their plan for active mitigation. How a buff that increases our chance to dodge by 45% is suddenly a part of that plan beats me (and a lot of other Guardians).

Would make sense if they turned Savage Defense into an on-use absorption shield of some kind (like the Death Knight's Blood Shield, minus the healing). That would still be proactive mitigation, but it would remove the RNG thing. It would also give Guardians a much needed way to prevent damage spikes. I don't get how they thought avoidance would be a good primary mitigation system, especially when it works against our Mastery (armor rating) and our resource generation (Rage on hit).

Edit: Right now I've macro'd SD into my attacks to ensure maximum uptime. Even then, I'm taking damage like you wouldn't believe it. Popped ALL my cooldowns (including SD) on a pack of trash mobs in Deadmines HC when the healer disconnected. Got three-shot (that is, my health dropped three times, with the third time bringing me to zero). Other times, I've been tanking packs of trash mobs where the healer was doing nothing the entire fight and we all lived. It's so random, it's unbearable that I have to spend time and focus on hitting that stupid button every 9 seconds, so I just made a macro and now consider it a proc. Go active mitigation, am I right? Smiley: lol

Edited, Sep 8th 2012 12:37am by Mazra
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#33 Sep 07 2012 at 6:44 PM Rating: Default
Unless you are going for Heroics, PVE tanks and DPS don't matters. You still gonna down bosses even if you are not optimum in rotation or specs. Gone are the days of spreadsheets and calculations in WOW, just show up and don't AFK.

PVP is another animal, Even if you show up, sometimes it's not enough. Blizzard created the FOM and is forces you to change your main to be competitive. Do you remember the last Hunter Gladiator? I didn't think so.

Nerf this, buff that, add this and ***** that, bottom line is...how much money we made and hope they didn't **** off the players. Still a fun game, but keep in mind this is a company who needs to milk contents and keeps your subscription up. They don't give a **** if you have to relearned your classes or switch main, they want your money.

I moved my toons on a French server "Zul'jin" and guild , i am having a lots of fun with the new friends. My main should be my rogue for MOP and looking foward to the new arena and BG's.
#34 Sep 08 2012 at 2:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
Doesn't matter if the bosses have audio-visual cues in MoP. In the end, whether you take the damage or not becomes a matter of chance, which is not cool. Avoidance shouldn't be a part of active mitigation because it doesn't mitigate each hit, it mitigates total damage taken over the course of a fight, which can be a relatively short fight if RNG decides to let the tank get hit three times in a row while the healer is preoccupied.

I was talking more about the other 2 active defense abilities. I feel like druids got the short end of the stick. Pallys got a flat damage reduction, Warriors have shield blocks, Blood DKs still have their heal/shield, monks have rolling stagger damage. "Hmm... what's left for druids... I guess we'll give them avoidance."

Maybe they could add a glyph that gives the option to reduce the duration, but buff the dodge % gain to 75% (or whatever % is needed to dodge-cap for the next 2 seconds).
#35 Sep 08 2012 at 7:37 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Unless you are going for Heroics, PVE tanks and DPS don't matters. You still gonna down bosses even if you are not optimum in rotation or specs. Gone are the days of spreadsheets and calculations in WOW, just show up and don't AFK.


I don't know if I'd go _that_ far, and besides, there are no Level 90 non-heroic dungeons in MoP -- ALL Level 90 dungeons are Heroics (unless they changed their mind from what they told us before). So unless you enjoy <Lv90 content, then yeah you kinda need to be at least spec'd properly for your job; you're not going to see Arms/Ret/Frost/Ferals tanking dungeons. Pre-90, they said that they wanted things to be a bit more relaxed, and with Scenarios, yeah, they don't want a tank and healer forced upon a group of three. Makes sense.

Quote:
PVP is another animal, Even if you show up, sometimes it's not enough. Blizzard created the FOM and is forces you to change your main to be competitive. Do you remember the last Hunter Gladiator? I didn't think so.


Given that they removed the #1 flaw with hunters (minimum range crap), who knows? It could be possible. I was playing my hunter just yesterday and I saw just how ridiculously powerful "Thrill of the Hunt" is when it was going off every 5 seconds and I was able to kill 3 mobs by spamming Arcane Shot over and over again without using up a single focus. Now, granted, that'll probably get nerfed (surely they meant for that to have, say, a 10-20 second ICD or something?), but still. The removal of Minimum Range means that getting in a hunter's face doesn't give you an instant win anymore.

There will always be a "FOM". It is nearly impossible to make all specs and classes exactly the same strength. There will always be a "most powerful" even if it is by a margin of 5-10%. There's nothing one can do about it, except for class homogenization, but everyone complains left and right about that.

Quote:
Nerf this, buff that, add this and ***** that, bottom line is...how much money we made and hope they didn't **** off the players. Still a fun game, but keep in mind this is a company who needs to milk contents and keeps your subscription up. They don't give a @#%^ if you have to relearned your classes or switch main, they want your money.


Re-learning your classes and/or switching mains is healthy for the game -- playing the same class with the same abilities gets boring after awhile. I like early expansions; it is something new. Two days ago I was doing Tol Barad dailies and farming Leather. Something I couldn't possibly bring myself to do in Patch 4.3 because the expansion (Cataclysm) had been so old and I had done this crap many many times.

But now that my classes play a bit different, I've new toys to work with, and I'm re-learning things, it wasn't so bad! Yeah, I'd already done the quests before, but relearning my class, having new abilities to use, made it feel just a little more fresh. Kinda like putting stale bread in the microwave for a few seconds -- still somewhat stale, but yet, it moistens it up so that it isn't as dry.


Edited, Sep 8th 2012 9:39am by Lyrailis
#36 Sep 08 2012 at 11:58 AM Rating: Good
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RAWDEAL wrote:
PVP is another animal, Even if you show up, sometimes it's not enough. Blizzard created the FOM and is forces you to change your main to be competitive. Do you remember the last Hunter Gladiator? I didn't think so.

Tosan has been a Gladiator hunter every season in Cata, and wears the Ruthless Gladiator title on the tournament realm.

You're an idiot, BTW. Every class can make it to Gladiator, and especially Hunters in the past few seasons have done much better than they had in previous expansions.

If you're that bad that you need to switch to the FOTM class and spec to PvP, you should probably be looking to become a better player, not reroll when your class isn't the best anymore.
#37REDACTED, Posted: Sep 10 2012 at 6:23 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You are such a tough internet guy... So where is your Gladiator title on your Hunter MR. IAMBETTERTHANEVERYONE?
#38 Sep 10 2012 at 6:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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RAWDEAL wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:


You're an idiot, BTW. Every class can make it to Gladiator, and especially Hunters in the past few seasons have done much better than they had in previous expansions.
You are such a tough internet guy... So where is your Gladiator title on your Hunter MR. IAMBETTERTHANEVERYONE?

Blizzard do have FOTM, you are an idiot if you think not! That's why you quit your Rogue to jump on DK wagon than switch to Hunter than Rogue than...etc...You still have no title and you suck *** in arena.


Errr, okay, now we're resorting the personal attacks and insults here?

Oh, btw, where are your characters and achievements? Theophany links his freely in his sigs, so that everybody could see. He linked a guy who has a hunter who has been a gladiator every season to show that it IS possible (despite you saying it isn't and there hasn't been), proving you wrong.

And you respond by calling him an idiot and claiming he sucks (without showing your own characters to back it up).

Maybe you need another forum vacation, you seem to have forgotten why people dislike you in the first place. Do I need to dig up that post of yours you made a few months ago where you were supposedly leaving because "OMG nobody likes me!!!"?

With posts like this, you really have to wonder why?
#39REDACTED, Posted: Sep 11 2012 at 1:02 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Dude he is French... it says it all.. JKJK........
#40 Sep 11 2012 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
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RAWDEAL wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:
You're an idiot, BTW. Every class can make it to Gladiator, and especially Hunters in the past few seasons have done much better than they had in previous expansions.
You are such a tough internet guy... So where is your Gladiator title on your Hunter MR. IAMBETTERTHANEVERYONE?

Blizzard do have FOTM, you are an idiot if you think not! That's why you quit your Rogue to jump on DK wagon than switch to Hunter than Rogue than...etc...You still have no title and you suck *** in arena.

My Hunter has always been an alt (obviously, look at his gear). I simply said that Hunters CAN get Gladiator, and especially in this past expansion, there were comps where this was fairly simple (in 3s alone there were multiple comps that were at least as good as RMP).

And I even said that there's a FOTM spec/class in my post (in which I also posted proof that you can get Gladiator as a hunter, which you said wasn't possible); I just said if you think that you need to do that to get Gladiator, you're probably not as good as you think you are.

I quit my rogue in WotLK (cute that you remember, BTW) because I've always wanted to be a DK. I ended up hating the gameplay in PvP, so I switched back to my rogue. My hunter has always been an alt, just not one I played much until the revamp to hunter mechanics (focus instead of mana).

I really like how much you seem to follow me around, though. It's cute, and really feeds my ego.
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