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5.0.4 PTRFollow

#1 Jul 21 2012 at 12:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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So, 5.0.4 PTR is up.

Mists is getting closer (thank God!).

I wonder what is meant by "Currency Conversion". I'm thinking they're talking about what happens to your JP/HP/VP/CP when this patch goes live, but that's just my assumption.

Not going to C&P the whole thing, but, some highlights include:

1). The whole Theramore thing.
2). AoE looting.
3). The new Talent system.
4). Relics/Ranged Slots have been removed, Wands change to MH weapons, Guns/Bows/Xbows are now 2H weapons and there's no minimum range for ranged weapons anymore.
5). Glyph changes.
6). Account-Wide Mounts/Pets/Achievements.
7). Character creation screen changes.

Are the big things I saw.


Edited, Jul 21st 2012 2:25pm by Lyrailis
#2 Jul 21 2012 at 4:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lyrailis wrote:
I wonder what is meant by "Currency Conversion". I'm thinking they're talking about what happens to your JP/HP/VP/CP when this patch goes live, but that's just my assumption.


I'm pretty sure that's exactly what is meant.
Have fun testing. Smiley: smile
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#3 Jul 21 2012 at 5:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Figure a month(ish) till it goes live, 1 month after that MoP. So mid Sept at the earliest for MoP.

Anyone have historical links for tbc, wotlk and cata, or am I gonna have to google!

Edited, Jul 21st 2012 7:16pm by bodhisattva
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#4 Jul 21 2012 at 7:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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bodhisattva wrote:
Figure a month(ish) till it goes live, 1 month after that MoP. So mid Sept at the earliest for MoP.

Anyone have historical links for tbc, wotlk and cata, or am I gonna have to google!

Edited, Jul 21st 2012 7:16pm by bodhisattva


Follow the link in my OP, then click on "Comments".

First comment has a historical dates thingie.

Every single expansion thusfar has worked like this:

"Prep" patch arrives on PTR.
~1 month later, Prep patch goes Live.
4-6 weeks later, Expansion goes live.

So, by this estimate, looks like 5.0.4 will hit Live about Aug 14, 21, or 28th and the Expansion will go Live either Sept 11th, 18th, or if we're really unlucky, 25th.

Something like that.

Edited, Jul 21st 2012 9:15pm by Lyrailis
#5 Jul 21 2012 at 7:37 PM Rating: Good
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Pffft clicking on links! (thank you for pointing it out though)

That was a **** of a lot of dead time between DS & MoP though. I think it would be safe to say 6 weeks from August 16 when they the debut the Cinematic for MoP. If we were doing a pool for the release date. I've stayed away from any beta whining but looking at blue posts it seems like there has been a lot of back and forth on balance and people are saying good things about the pokemon feature.
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#6 Jul 21 2012 at 9:23 PM Rating: Good
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bodhisattva wrote:
Pffft clicking on links! (thank you for pointing it out though)
Quote:


np at all, I coulda copied and pasted, but meh. lol.

[quote]That was a **** of a lot of dead time between DS & MoP though.


Doesn't help that LFR DS is a bit simplistic mechanics-wise. I've cleared LFR DS and, well. The first boss is cakewalk, the bosses inside the maws are fairly easy, the huge dragon boss is cakewalk (seriously, you click the big fat invincibility button just before he finishes casting the spell!? OMG!). The first battle in the 2nd half is the only real part that you'd have to think about... not eating shockwaves, soaking the dragon's fireballs to prevent the ship from going down, and not bringing down too many riders at once... the part on his back, meh, KILL FREAKING ADDS, how hard is that? And the last part is just a Patchwerk-style DPS race.

Hence, a lot of people get bored quickly and easily with LFR DS. And once they "see the content", they're not left with much desire to try N-DS unless they're already in a raiding guild.

And yes, the amount of Time between 4.3 and 5.0.4 is... quite a large gap, true.

[quote]I think it would be safe to say 6 weeks from August 16 when they the debut the Cinematic for MoP. If we were doing a pool for the release date. I've stayed away from any beta whining but looking at blue posts it seems like there has been a lot of back and forth on balance and people are saying good things about the pokemon feature.


I've been hearing lots of good things overall about the Beta... though I'm still worried about Spirits of Harmony. I think it is a horrible idea, and I pray to God someone at Blizz has the brains to make them BoA instead of BoP.
#7 Jul 22 2012 at 12:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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As much as I dislike the "pokemon" crap... i'm gonna get sucked in thru the acheivments. Dammit.

Cooking specializations I'm dreading entirely.

Rest is the usual "changes are changes" ****.
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#8 Jul 22 2012 at 3:25 PM Rating: Good
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Don't think I like #4: Relics/Ranged Slots have been removed, Wands change to MH weapons, Guns/Bows/Xbows are now 2H weapons and there's no minimum range for ranged weapons anymore.
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#9 Jul 22 2012 at 3:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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ChiefsClassik wrote:
Don't think I like #4: Relics/Ranged Slots have been removed, Wands change to MH weapons, Guns/Bows/Xbows are now 2H weapons and there's no minimum range for ranged weapons anymore.



I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE that.

That's 1-2 less pieces of equipment I have to collect for my character.

It was always a pain in the **** trying to find a Strength gun for a warrior, or Relics for Paladins/Druids/Shamans/DKs. I'm not gonna miss that slot, one bit.

Since Hunters can shoot at Point-Blank range now, they won't need melee weapons or Raptor Strike anymore and they won't be rolling on Rogue/Shaman/Druid/Monk stuff, either.

Protip: If you have any Mages, Priests, or Warlocks who have a <378 weapon in their Main Hand, get 700JP and buy the 378 wand and make sure you hold onto it.

When 5.0.4 goes Live, the Wand will become a Main Hand weapon and its stats will be buffed to about the same as the 378 1H caster weapons. You can easily do this with a couple runs of N-HoO if it comes up as your Random Normal.

Edited, Jul 22nd 2012 5:31pm by Lyrailis
#10 Jul 22 2012 at 3:31 PM Rating: Good
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ChiefsClassik wrote:
Don't think I like #4: Relics/Ranged Slots have been removed, Wands change to MH weapons, Guns/Bows/Xbows are now 2H weapons and there's no minimum range for ranged weapons anymore.


If it means my Hunter can run around with his bow visibly sheathed and perhaps a quiver (like in the old days), I'd happily give up a melee weapon.

Not sure about the wands, though. My Mage, Warlock and Priest will be slightly unhappy if they can't equip a staff.
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#11 Jul 22 2012 at 3:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mazra wrote:
ChiefsClassik wrote:
Don't think I like #4: Relics/Ranged Slots have been removed, Wands change to MH weapons, Guns/Bows/Xbows are now 2H weapons and there's no minimum range for ranged weapons anymore.


If it means my Hunter can run around with his bow visibly sheathed and perhaps a quiver (like in the old days), I'd happily give up a melee weapon.

Not sure about the wands, though. My Mage, Warlock and Priest will be slightly unhappy if they can't equip a staff.


You can equip a staff, but you can't use a staff and a wand at the same time.

At least now, you should be able to SEE your wand hanging off your belt.
#12 Jul 22 2012 at 3:48 PM Rating: Good
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Question, can you use a wand and offhand then to compensate for lack of stats on a wand? Because that would be pretty cool.
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#13 Jul 22 2012 at 3:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Criminy wrote:
Question, can you use a wand and offhand then to compensate for lack of stats on a wand? Because that would be pretty cool.


Wands are Main Hand and have been buffed to be about the same as daggers/caster maces. You'd use them paired up with a Held-In-Off Hand item, such as those books, orbs, crystals, etc.


Compare these two:

http://www.wowhead.com/item=71151
http://mop.wowhead.com/item=71151

Notice how the stats have been buffed to be about the same as this item:

http://www.wowhead.com/item=71359

Now, Wands still say "Ranged" but I'm pretty sure they're meant to be Main Hand.

Edited, Jul 22nd 2012 5:54pm by Lyrailis
#14 Jul 22 2012 at 4:23 PM Rating: Good
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I don't like them scratching equipment slots. If the Relicslot (for example) was a hurdle for some classes to equip properly they should work on loottables or such. Removing stuff is just lame game design.
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#15 Jul 22 2012 at 4:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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TherealLogros wrote:
I don't like them scratching equipment slots. If the Relicslot (for example) was a hurdle for some classes to equip properly they should work on loottables or such. Removing stuff is just lame game design.


It fixes a lot of problems, and I agree with the decision.

It fixes...

1). Relic Slots seemed a bit of a "Why is this even here?" The only reason: Shamans, Paladins, Druids, and Death Knights cannot use ranged weapons. This means they're at a statistical disadvantage, as they cannot equip anything in this slot.

2). Hunters keep taking weapons meant for Rogues, Druids, and Enhancement Shaman. Hunters almost never melee if they can possibly help it, so these weapons are nothing but extra stat sticks. Meanwhile, Rogues, Druids, and Enhancement Shamans were going "WTF huntard!? I needed that!" as they would have actually USED said weapon to melee with, instead of just carrying it around as a stat stick.

3). Warriors needed Strength Guns -- they are the one and only class that does. Rather than wasting database room on a weapon that only one class would ever use, they decided "Warriors don't really need a ranged weapon -- they have Taunt, Heroic Throw, and Shattering Throw now".

4). Rogues never used ranged weapons for anything other than Fan of Knives, so why not get rid of their ranged weapons too?

What does that leave, Spellcasters. Spellcasters almost never wand anyways, and same thing with Warriors, Rogues, Relic-users: They had to have them to compete with everyone else, stat budget-wise.

Thus, the logical decision then becomes to remove the Ranged Slot entirely. Make Guns, Bows, and Crossbows 2H weapons (so hunters no longer want Melee weapons and won't be taking them off of people who REALLY need them), Wands become MH so casters can still use them as a ranged weapon if they wished, and Warriors and Rogues won't need ranged weapons. Fan of Knives, I assume, becomes an attack all Rogues can do, without the Thrown Weapon requirement.

This negatively impacts no one, and everyone is kept equal in terms of stat budgets, and everyone has 1-2 less items they have to collect to gear up.

I can see nothing wrong with this design decision whatsoever.
#16 Jul 23 2012 at 2:12 AM Rating: Decent
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For all I know the problems you've listed are valid points, so I won't even try to dispute these. However in my book having less item slots to equip is not a good thing but a very very bad one. I like collecting and upgrading gear. It's one of the main reasons I'm playing WoW.
So for me personally it would have been a better approach if they had looked at any problems at hand and found other solutions. Yes that would've been way harder and not this clean by far. But that's exactly why I call this removal lazy. "Oh we don't have any easy solution? Well let's kick this slot entirely. Problem solved lol."
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#17 Jul 23 2012 at 8:17 AM Rating: Good
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Any suggestions to how they can improve on a range weapon only one class can use, melee weapons that will never be used in melee, and relics that serve absolutely no purpose?

I understand that loosing a gear slot sucks but we are just loosing slots that serve no logic at all.
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#18 Jul 23 2012 at 8:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'd happily give up my relic slot if it meant that Hunters wouldn't roll on my "turn into a fire kitty" polearms/staffs in the future.
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#19 Jul 23 2012 at 8:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Criminy wrote:
Any suggestions to how they can improve on a range weapon only one class can use, melee weapons that will never be used in melee, and relics that serve absolutely no purpose?

I understand that loosing a gear slot sucks but we are just loosing slots that serve no logic at all.


Then Blizz should alter the slots so they make sense. I'm sure the developers could come up with something if they really wanted to. But it seems that is too much to ask for.
The removal of headenchants is another trip right down the same alley which I personally strongly dislike. I have seen many threads suggesting to put headenchants in with Engineering, but no. Instead they get just removed alltogether.

I know and understand the reasoning behind both decisions and I don't say that there wasn't need for a change. But just taking them out of the game? Come on now...
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#20 Jul 23 2012 at 10:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Personally, I'd like to see ONE trinket slot. Or, even NO trinkets. They're a pita if you don't have the BOAs.
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#21 Jul 23 2012 at 10:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
So for me personally it would have been a better approach


Smiley: lol You are committing a logical fallacy -- I'm the center of the universe and it revolves around me. That invalidates your whole argument.

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#22 Jul 23 2012 at 11:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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The removal of headenchants is another trip right down the same alley which I personally strongly dislike. I have seen many threads suggesting to put headenchants in with Engineering, but no. Instead they get just removed alltogether.


TBH, I don't understand why they didn't give head enchants to scribes just like shoulder enchants.

But I'm not going to complain about it (the removal of the enchants itself), though I wish they'd stop with the double standards -- their explanation behind the removal of head enchants is "nobody likes having to grind up a reputation on every character just to do endgame with".

.......duuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrp.

Then make the stupid things truly BoA without rep requirement, then!

Sheesh, how hard does that have to be?

1). Grind Rep on ONE character per server.
2). Buy Head Enchant.
3). Mail it to your alt.
4). Use it.
5). ???
6). PROFIT!

No, the ones in Therazane (that many complained about) were BoA, but required Therazane rep to buy and use which was just absolutely retarded.

And Then.....then they make epics buyable with Valor Points and stick reputation requirements on them.

Not only did they go back on their "we don't think buying gear from a vendor is very interesting", but they also did a complete 180 on their "nobody likes to grind reps on every character". Now, instead of grinding one rep for a head enchant, you're grinding at least three for all of your Valor gear.

Niiiiiice.

Love the double-standards and 180 turns there, Blizz.

Edited, Jul 23rd 2012 1:37pm by Lyrailis
#23 Jul 23 2012 at 11:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Vorkosigan wrote:
Personally, I'd like to see ONE trinket slot. Or, even NO trinkets. They're a pita if you don't have the BOAs.


I hate trying to find trinkets sometimes.

Hopefully this time around, they stick at least a couple weak ones on a vendor that's easily gotten.

While trying to level the last couple characters up, I had Level 83 characters that couldn't get into any dungeons because the only dungeons the RDF will let you Random at 83 require 305 avg. Even while carrying around a cape to offset my BoA Cape, I still couldn't get in because I had Outland (or worse) trinkets, because trinkets are so few and hard to find, that I easily leveled without finding any at all.

All Cataclysm Trinkets are at least 50% of the way into the zone (except for Deepholm, which gives Strength or Agility users 1 trinket 30% of the way in), and if you're leveling to get to 85 quickly, you're not going to do a whole zone to find the trinkets. And trinkets dropping in dungeons? lololololol, I've done 10+ dungeons in a row and didn't see a single one. So there I was at 83.. I pressed the "Find Dungeon" button and it goes "You don't meet the requirements for any dungeons".

If they're going to do this again in MoP (having I-level requirements for pre-90 dungeons), then they need to stick trinkets on a vendor, or have a couple that you can find in the first few quests, not the quests way near the end of the zone.
#24 Jul 23 2012 at 10:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lyrailis wrote:
Vorkosigan wrote:
Personally, I'd like to see ONE trinket slot. Or, even NO trinkets. They're a pita if you don't have the BOAs.


I hate trying to find trinkets sometimes.

Hopefully this time around, they stick at least a couple weak ones on a vendor that's easily gotten.


So far in beta there's seven trinkets as quest rewards, starting in the first zone and they're all fairly decent (unless you're a healer, most seem to proc on damage).

http://mop.wowhead.com/items=4.-4?filter=cr=18:166;crs=1:5;crv=0:0

On a related note, the Darkmoon trinkets look pretty awesome again.
#25 Jul 24 2012 at 12:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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TherealLogros wrote:
I know and understand the reasoning behind both decisions and I don't say that there wasn't need for a change. But just taking them out of the game? Come on now...
They're removing head enchants now too? /sigh

What's next?
Future Patch 6.0 Notes wrote:
-We've replaced the current gear system with one that has three slots: Armor, Weapon and Shield

#26 Jul 24 2012 at 2:24 AM Rating: Good
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Rhodekylle wrote:
Quote:
So for me personally it would have been a better approach


Smiley: lol You are committing a logical fallacy -- I'm the center of the universe and it revolves around me. That invalidates your whole argument.



What the ****? I never claimed to have the superior opinion. I just said that I would have liked Blizzard to take another approach on this issue. That's called having a discussion. If you can't accept me having another opinion than you that's your problem, not mine.

I specifically worded my posts this way to prevent someone storming in and accusing me of trying to speak for the whole community or some bullcrap like that. I thought this way it would be clear that this is my personal opinion and nothing more. But hey, it seems no matter how you construct your posts someone will always find something to fret over.

Also I never said the points Lyrailis made were wrong...

So yeah Smiley: lol x100.
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