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Enchanting and Alchemy on the same character?Follow

#1 Jun 09 2012 at 4:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Hello everyone. I just dinged 525 on Jewelcrafting and Mining. Now I wanted to make gold and I had no clue how because im pretty new to WoW, so I watched a couple of videos and read a little. Found out that I have to do dailies to be able to buy Designs to create Blue and Purples gems. But then I found out that you are able to make money just by Prospecting -> Disenchanting/Alchemy -> Sell. I do not want to ask other players all the time.

I have planned to create a Mage because I just love their armors and I have not tested DPS:ing yet, only tanking and healing. As I want to make much money I was thinking to take both professions Enchanting and Alchemy on my mage, instead of creating two separate characters, one with Enchanting+Tailoring and one with Alchemy+Herbalism. So simply I am wondering what you think I should choose. I do know that Enchanting is extremely good to have with Jewelcrafting when makin money, but to max everything it would be nice with Alchemy too.

As far as I understand, Alchemy have a skill you use on the Gems, does this skill require any special materials from Herbalism that will be hard to get or expensive to buy?

- Much thankfull if you sort this out for me, thank you!
#2 Jun 09 2012 at 10:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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I always recommend Jewelcrafting and Alchemy together since you can use Alchemy to create the gems and then cut them with Jewelcrafting. Without Jewelcrafting, Enchanting is worthless since you have no way to make the rings/necklaces that the guide is telling you to disenchant. For the best profit you would want two characters with some combination of Enchanting, Mining, Alchemy and Jewelcrafting. Alchemy is incredibly easy to level without Herbalism (about 1700g on my server, but that was a year ago, so YMMV) and you only need a few herbs for gem transmutes so once you start bringing in gold, the lack of Herbalism won't hurt you too badly. My main moneymaker is my priest with Jewelcrafting and transmutation mastery Alchemy. I have enough gold that I just buy ore to prospect and then transmute the gems with her, and email anything needing to be disenchanted to my hunter.

Something to keep in mind even though it may vary by server: I have not been able to give gems away lately, probably because it is so late in the expansion. So I wouldn't count on making tons of gold right now, but if you get everything set up now, you'll be able to rake it in once MoP comes out.
#3 Jun 09 2012 at 10:25 AM Rating: Good
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JC has not been the golden goose I was led to expect. My real concern with two crafting professions is that buying all your mats would get really expensive. On my server main, herbs are generally pricier than metal or gems, even at low levels.
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#4 Jun 09 2012 at 10:29 AM Rating: Good
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It is highly not recommended to pick a crafting profession that you would need to level through the AH unless you have quite a bit of gold already. Personally I would go with enchanting and either a gathering profession or engineering. While you won't rake in the money with engineering you can certainly make a lot of neat items (chopper anyone?).
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#5 Jun 09 2012 at 4:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Ollamnh wrote:
JC has not been the golden goose I was led to expect. My real concern with two crafting professions is that buying all your mats would get really expensive. On my server main, herbs are generally pricier than metal or gems, even at low levels.


If you aren't making money with Jewelcrafting, you either aren't doing it right or entering the wrong time in the expansion.

Also, buying all of your mats doesn't get that expensive when it comes to having two crafting professions if you've built up some starter capital ahead of time. You may plunk down 10,000g at a time for materials to curb any RNG, but you'll make 4 to 5 times your initial investment in most cases.

That said, if you aren't already in on the shuffle, I think it's crazy to think it's going to be reliable come MoP. Gem Transmutes now need Spirit of Harmony which we don't know how rare they will be. Also there are I think two jewelry patterns that require four uncommon gems of only two colors to make items. The shuffle made bank as you pretty much could use everything but Zephyrites to turn into enchanting materials usually with 1 or 2 uncommon gems to make an item. Despite this, get as many professions on your server across multiple toons as possible. The more options you have, the more money you can make.
#6 Jun 09 2012 at 4:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Tellaria wrote:

Something to keep in mind even though it may vary by server: I have not been able to give gems away lately, probably because it is so late in the expansion. So I wouldn't count on making tons of gold right now, but if you get everything set up now, you'll be able to rake it in once MoP comes out.

Same on my server, disenchanting jewelry paid for the ore and the gems were the profit - but now enchanting mats go for half what they need to if they're going to pay the vig and no one's buying gems. I haven't done the shuffle in weeks, and haven't even cleared out the residue from what I had on hand at the time of the crash.

That said, there's been a shuffle in every expansion, so I'd be amazed if there wasn't one in Mists. I also would expect it to require Mining, Enchanting and JC, probably Alchemy, and possibly BS in order to squeeze the most out of it. Herbalism probably not so much - it's likely to be feeding Inscription more than alchemy (shoulder enchants!).

Just treat the next month or so as an AH hiatus, just like it is with raiding in most guilds.
#7 Jun 09 2012 at 7:50 PM Rating: Good
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When doing your first or second character's professions, do yourself a favor and do not pick a profession that you do not have the main gathering profession for.

For example, if you want Alchemy, don't take it unless you have an Herbalist on the same server. The price for mats out of the AH are simply out of this world, especially for lower-level junk (it doesn't get any better higher level either, not even for Northrend junk). They will gouge you for 40, 60+ gold per stack of herbs that'd take you 2-3 min to collect once you got to the area in which they are found.

So, here's my recommendations:

If you want Enchanting, get Tailoring as the other spec -- they go well together. Cloth is fairly easy to get, especially Wrath+ due to the Cloth Gathering skill that you learn. Disenchanting your tailored goods yields enchanting materials which will cut costs from leveling/doing enchanting.

Seriously consider leveling a Miner for your Jewelcrafter if you don't already have one, and if you want Alchemy, do an Herbalist as I said above. Take advantage of racials if you can -- if you're Horde, I suggest making a Tauren herbalist, either a druid or a paladin if you enjoy those classes (Paladin for mount speed/stun ability, Druid so that you can pick herbs in flight form).

Also, for your questions:

Alchemy is more about making potions than it is making jewels. Making jewels is something they JUST added in Cataclysm; we have no current proof (that I know of yet) that they will do this again in MoP. Also, Truegold is something alchemists do.

As for making gems, yes, you need herbs. Which herbs depends on the gems, and yes they are expensive. It takes 3 herbs per gem.

To be honest, if you're an Alchemist/Jewelcrafter...

1). Where are you getting the raw green-quality gems from? Buying them? Prospecting them? If you're buying your ore, you're taking a huge hit to your profits right there. You'd do better as a miner, prospecting your own ore.

2). Where would you get the herbs? I've seen Heartblossoms for example, going for 120g+ for twenty. That's a mere 8 gems for 120g in just herbs. Add the cost of your ore ontop of that and it isn't hard to see why you're losing money. BUT, if you had an HERBALIST, you could spend 5-10 min in Deepholm and get those same 20 Heartblossoms for free. I think 5-10min is worth 120g, don't you? Spend about an hour a week in there and you'd have stacks upon stacks of the crap.

There's a reason why people take gathering professions -- they yield insane money compared to any sort of production craft. Anymore, I find that production crafts are best used for enhancements (blacksmiths' glove/bracer sockets, JC's gems, enchanters' ring enchants, etc) and making things for my own use than anything.

Edit: I am speaking about current economy, not the economy as it was earlier in the expansion, btw. Earlier in the expansion, I didn't see herbs going for 100+ gold a stack; they usually went for 30-40g. Not sure what's driving the herb prices up so damn high, but meh. Late expansion is always horrible for attempting to make money by crafting.

Edit 2: Given the Account-Wide achievement system and how players will get achievements for X number of classes leveled and X number of crafts leveled, "the shuffle" and other similar tactics might not work as well due to more competition as more people will be tempted to level extra characters and extra crafts. I wouldn't count on relying upon this to make you money in MoP.

Edited, Jun 9th 2012 9:54pm by Lyrailis
#8 Jun 10 2012 at 2:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Lyrailis wrote:

<snip>
Also, for your questions:

Alchemy is more about making potions than it is making jewels. Making jewels is something they JUST added in Cataclysm; we have no current proof (that I know of yet) that they will do this again in MoP. Also, Truegold is something alchemists do.
<snip>
Edited, Jun 9th 2012 9:54pm by Lyrailis


One correction; we starting making jewels in BC (meta's only) and added colored epics in LK. Also if you decide to go with an Alchemist I would strongly suggest you specialize in transmuting. Finally Lyrailis is right about no guarantees on what changes MOP will bring. They absolutely have no compunctions about screwing with your expectations*.


*I am still po'd about the loss of the mote extractor in Cata.

#9 Jun 10 2012 at 7:10 PM Rating: Good
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My apologies, I had forgotten about the late-Wrath epic gem xmutes, and yes there were Metas in TBC.

Now, I've read somewhere that there will be gem x-mutes in MoP, but even so...

Having Mining and Herbalism to compliment your Alchemy and Jewelcrafting skills is a nice thing to have, strongly advise the OP get a second character (get a DK if you don't already have one; they start at 55 and are easy-peasy to play) and level Mining/Herb on that character to at least shave some of the costs off your professions.
#10 Jun 11 2012 at 6:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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I have a bunch of toons and have every profession maxxed out except for engineering.

I've been playing since Vanilla.

Having a crafting profession without the gathering profession that goes with it is almost always a bad idea.

There is no use in paying a fortune for mats to max out a crafting profession that may or may not make you reasonable amounts of money.

Some crafting professions make good money, some don't. And it varies by expansion.

Gathering professions ALWAYS make money.

Just my two cent's worth.
#11 Jun 11 2012 at 6:39 AM Rating: Good
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Labiarinth wrote:
Gathering professions ALWAYS make money.
Except when bots are glutting the market and you would have made more by spending your time doing dailies.
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#12 Jun 11 2012 at 6:39 AM Rating: Good
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Labiarinth wrote:
I have a bunch of toons and have every profession maxxed out except for engineering.

I've been playing since Vanilla.

Having a crafting profession without the gathering profession that goes with it is almost always a bad idea.

There is no use in paying a fortune for mats to max out a crafting profession that may or may not make you reasonable amounts of money.

Some crafting professions make good money, some don't. And it varies by expansion.

Gathering professions ALWAYS make money.

Just my two cent's worth.


QFT.

A lot of people overestimate their time's worth when pricing their goods, they also attempt to figure in what they think the market worth of the item is, and I know this is just my opinion, but a lot of this stuff is kinda crazy IMO.

To use an earlier example, people wanting 50-80 gold per stack of Cinderbloom, Heartblossom, etc.

Really?

I can get a stack of that within 5min.

Is 5 minutes of work worth 50-80 gold to you?

It sure isn't worth that to me.

They just want too much for crap, and you also see it with Copper, Peacebloom, etc low level crap that anybody can go out and get loads of. Copper for 10-20g a stack, I've actually seen that. I bet newbies are happy, they can list for 5g+ and get guaranteed sales.
#13 Jun 11 2012 at 8:13 AM Rating: Good
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Lyrailis wrote:
A lot of people overestimate their time's worth when pricing their goods, they also attempt to figure in what they think the market worth of the item is, and I know this is just my opinion, but a lot of this stuff is kinda crazy IMO.

To use an earlier example, people wanting 50-80 gold per stack of Cinderbloom, Heartblossom, etc.

Really?

I can get a stack of that within 5min.

Is 5 minutes of work worth 50-80 gold to you?

It sure isn't worth that to me.

They just want too much for crap, and you also see it with Copper, Peacebloom, etc low level crap that anybody can go out and get loads of. Copper for 10-20g a stack, I've actually seen that. I bet newbies are happy, they can list for 5g+ and get guaranteed sales.
It's actually quite simple. The gatherers can charge what the crafters will pay...what the market will bear. I've sold copper ore for 30-40g a stack most every time I've rerolled on a new server. And I don't mean I listed it at that, I mean I've sold it to someone else, usually within the first listing. It's not the gatherers being ridiculous, it's that the crafters will buy it for some reason.

Now, on my main, I craft exclusively. JC and Enchanting. I don't farm ore. To me it's always been simple. Farm the ore I need for ~45 minutes to an hour, or pay 50-80g a stack, craft my stuff, list it and make double what I spent in about 10 minutes(5 of which I spend tabbed out around here). You know when I stopped making money? When ore prices dropped down to just over vendor because of a glut in supply due to a few enterprising entrepreneurs(or bots), due to the low costs driving a lot of folks to glut the crafted goods market. I'm not sure if the market is still glutted since I barely play, but it's always been that way for me. Reasonably high costs to gather are a serious craft merchant's friend, in my experience.
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#14 Jun 11 2012 at 8:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Lyrailis wrote:
Is 5 minutes of work worth 50-80 gold to you?


I usually figured about 2k or so an hour; because that's as much as I could usually pull farming cloth on my tailor. Not that there were other ways that had a better return per hour, but that was probably the best activity that I could just sit down with and turn out money (something like turning transmog gear did better gold/hour but I could probably only spend like 10-15min a day on it). So by that measure 5 min is worth about 160-170g. Smiley: grin

I do share the frustration about markets at the end of an expansion though. Between all the hoarding and speculation they get screwy.
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#15 Jun 11 2012 at 11:24 AM Rating: Good
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That is the almost ironic beauty of the wow market. On one hand people complain like crazy about the horrendous price of stuff like ore and the such. On the other people buy said items for said "horrendous" prices. -shrug- Go with the flow and teach others to not support it. Eventually things will settle down to whatever the market will handle.

The one thing I hate are the people who see ore selling for 20-25g a stack and puts up several pages of 5-10g stacks, followed by several others undercutting him. Those people really gut a market and make it difficult to sell stuff. (hence why I am sitting on 9 stacks of iron ore, I refuse to sell them for 2g a stack to stay competitive)Smiley: bah
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#16 Jun 11 2012 at 4:03 PM Rating: Default
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Criminy wrote:
The one thing I hate are the people who see ore selling for 20-25g a stack and puts up several pages of 5-10g stacks, followed by several others undercutting him. Those people really gut a market and make it difficult to sell stuff. (hence why I am sitting on 9 stacks of iron ore, I refuse to sell them for 2g a stack to stay competitive)Smiley: bah


I do that when leveling a character's gathering profession.

Usually what I'll do, is pick up what ore/herbs I see along the way while leveling and then, if I get behind, I think "oh well, catch it up later when I have Level 60 and Flight Master's License".

Then I'll go back and catch that up, get both on 300+.

Problem is, I'll end up with stacks and stacks and stacks of the junk.

I want to get rid of it and I want to get *some* money from it.

I don't feel like playing a undercutting war, nor do I want the stuff sitting in my mailbox. I want gold, not the items returned to me.

So, I stick them up for prices that I know will sell; usually ~30% off.

If someone else is willing to undercut me, then that's a sure sign that you're just plain asking too much for the stuff. If your price was fair, then I'd just be bought out and they'd relist mine, rather than trying to undercut me.

Some items in the game are just far too easy to obtain to warrant their ridiculous prices, or, the items you're trying to sell are not in high demand. When people get lots of the junk on them from leveling (Mithril comes to mind Post-Cataclysm; spend 30 minutes in Searing Gorge and you'll have more Mithril than you know what to do with), they just want to get rid of it, at any price that's noticeable. Sometimes this means undercutting by 30%-50% to make sure it sells. Oh well. I don't care, I just want to get rid of it.
#17 Jun 11 2012 at 5:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Criminy wrote:
(hence why I am sitting on 9 stacks of iron ore, I refuse to sell them for 2g a stack to stay competitive)Smiley: bah


Find a JC to prospect them for you, the gems are probably worth a lot more.

Edit: Boom, 800 awesome posts since early 2004 Smiley: lol


Edited, Jun 11th 2012 7:17pm by Vorkosigan
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